Recumbent - Getting a used recumbent this weekend

:thumb::)I've wanted one for a long time. Found an early model Bike E locally for a very good price. I will pick it up tomorrow. Anyone else riding a Bike E?

Had a BikeE AT as my first recumbent in 2000. IMHO, it was heavy and inefficient but probably the easiest recumbent anyone could find to just hop on and ride away. I moved on to a lighter, more efficient Linear LWB a few months later. I kept mine as a loaner until one day the SACHS/SRAM hub failed. No real reason, it just came apart. Got the replacement parts for it from SRAM but couldn't fix it myself and couldn't find anyone locally who would even look at it. Funny because my SRAM Spectro 7 hub on my Greenspeed GTO has more than 14,000 miles on it and still works flawlessly. There are a lot of avid BikeE fans out there and many still on the road. The company went belly up around 2002. OEM parts are still available but some are getting scarce. Much of what is on the bike is standard bike parts though.

Fun bike to ride. Most parts should be easy to locate but they are a pretty reliable bike. Have fun.....

Start here

http://www.tachyonlabs.com/mybike.html

Nice little E Website. Scroll down past the e bay ads for more links.

Also "google" bikeE and you'll get more of these sites

Enjoy your ride.

Cool. Bike-E is fast becoming a collector's item. Even though it's not my style, I wouldn't mind getting one to use as a loaner. Have a great time with it!

Welcome to the recumbent club! If you haven't started already, you should be growing your beard by now.

Beard coming in nicely.
Got the bike today. Its a very early black beam with no suspension. Its in excellent mechanical condition and will need a little cleanup. For $250 I don't think I could go wrong. Always wanted to try one.
More reports later.
Thanks

Buying a functional 'bent for $250 is a good thing.

This bike is fun. Already settle in. At first felt real twitchy.

BTW, this frame is the xl. Its' 4 inches longer than the standard. I believe that will make the ride even smoother. I'm short, only 5 feet 5 inches, so I didn't really intend to buy an xl but it's cool.

Enjoy...that is one of t he nice things about a bent..even a frame not ment for one size can be made to fit easier................peace

If the beard is a problem, you can shave it off and switch to the propeller on top of your helmet.

I started with a BikeE CT, loved it, moved on. Sold it. Bought another later model, not as well built with cheaper components was disappointed with it, it was a standard frame, I eventually sold that one too. The XL is the better bike to have. There are still parts available, and for an entry level bike it can't be beat. I always thought they were just one Infomercail away from success. I kept track and had over 40 people up and riding first time, only two had problems.
I also had a number of people chase me down wondering where to buy one. That hasn't happened on any bent since, and I've owned a bunch in the past 11 years.

I just got a BikeE AT after seeing one pop up on craigslist for dirt cheap. Original owner passed and hardly road it -- the original (dry-rotted) tires still have the casting nubbies.

It's quite a bit slower than I expected -- it rolls about as well as a 700c hybrid and I expected it to be at least as good as a drop-bar roadbike. But it is pretty comfortable -- especially with the rear shock taking the edge off irregularities. With new skinnier tires, a new chain, and a properly adjusted front hub I think I'll be happy with its efficiency. I may need to put on a bigger chainring -- 108 gear inches is what mine has stock in the highest gear (that's about the same as the top gear on a mountain bike)

Does anyone make an under seat steer kit for it? I'm not a fan of the ape-hanger position... I'm also hoping to find a bolt-on fairing

Link for fairing, they are not cheap.

http://www.mueller-hp.com/bikee.htm

I thought about a bigger chain ring as well.

I thought about a bigger chain ring as well.

It may start with a larger ring, but tends to end somewhere near here (http://www.ransbikes.com/X-Stream.htm). <G>

That a nice bike for sure. I like the bigger front wheel.

I saved my Bike E for my wife and have put 3 or 4 other people on it. The design is for bent comfort, not high efficiency. Replaced it w/ a Giro 20. Enjoy your first bent:)
Mark

It may start with a larger ring, but tends to end somewhere near here (http://www.ransbikes.com/X-Stream.htm). <G>


LOL You're probably right, but I'd rather not spend that much. I'd just like my bikeE to go as well on the flats as a quality road bike and I don't see anything wrong with the frame design (just draggy hubs/tires/drivetrain)

Does this 3x7 hub get better once broken in (right now there are roughly 200 miles on the bikeE)? If I spin the wheel, it'll rotate for like 15 seconds (with freeplay adjusted like a normal hub). My mtb and road bike wheels will spin for 30+ seconds...

My 3x7 hub spins for a shockingly long time. Don't forget to drip a light oil down the shift chain at regular intervals.

LOL You're probably right, but I'd rather not spend that much. I'd just like my bikeE to go as well on the flats as a quality road bike and I don't see anything wrong with the frame design (just draggy hubs/tires/drivetrain)

Does this 3x7 hub get better once broken in (right now there are roughly 200 miles on the bikeE)? If I spin the wheel, it'll rotate for like 15 seconds (with freeplay adjusted like a normal hub). My mtb and road bike wheels will spin for 30+ seconds...

Your bikeE will most likely not come close to keeping up with a road bike.

bikeE - sometimes referred to as the gateway 'bent.

LOL You're probably right, but I'd rather not spend that much. I'd just like my bikeE to go as well on the flats as a quality road bike and I don't see anything wrong with the frame design (just draggy hubs/tires/drivetrain)

Does this 3x7 hub get better once broken in (right now there are roughly 200 miles on the bikeE)? If I spin the wheel, it'll rotate for like 15 seconds (with freeplay adjusted like a normal hub). My mtb and road bike wheels will spin for 30+ seconds...

BikeE speed is probably more like a hybrid. It is a comfortable bike, not a replacement for a good road bike. Free spin doesn't have that much to do with the speed of a bike in my opinion. Tires, frame, gearing, wind resistance all are much more important factors.

Your bikeE will most likely not come close to keeping up with a road bike.

So what about its design limits its speed so much compared to other recumbents? What recumbents are at least as fast as a road bike on the flat, but more comfortable?

So what about its design limits its speed so much compared to other recumbents? What recumbents are at least as fast as a road bike on the flat, but more comfortable?

Google BikeE images and note the upright position; not much aerodynamic advantage to help with attaining and maintaining speed.

So what about its design limits its speed so much compared to other recumbents? What recumbents are at least as fast as a road bike on the flat, but more comfortable?

Rolling resistance of wide tires is also an issue. And the weight. Any SWB recumbent w/ the BB higher than the seat would be much better.
Mark

If the Bike E had a larger front wheel, a 20 inch for example, I believe the bike would be more aero.

In no particular order:
1. weight
2. frame flex (includes seat)
3. transmission efficiency
4. rolling resistance (tire choices)
5. frontal area

The unfortunate fact is that most recumbents are *not* faster than road bikes. That was one thing I really didn't like about Bike-E; they referred to all the speed records that recumbents held, but somehow neglected to mention that their bikes weren't in that league.

Some of the faster sport models such as most of the RANS lineup, most 26/20s, unfaired EZ-Racers, etc, are *similar* to road bikes. Compacts, which includes Bike-E and Sun EZ-1, are slower. The high- and low-racers are usually faster than most road bikes, as are many faired bikes; but of course given a recumbent's speed profile, different conditions like hills and wind might affect that. And aerodynamics don't help a lot unless you can already sustain 18-20 mph or more; a fairing on a trike that gets ridden at 11 mph might help in cold or rain, but it's not a speed accessory.

Now you have to change your Avatar, LOL

Stopped by Peregrine Bicycle Works (www.pbwbikes.com (http://www.pbwbikes.com) ) in Chico, CA yesterday and Hugh was kind enough to let me test ride each of the ~6 recumbent bikes he had in stock (he said he just started carrying recumbent bikes recently). He also had tons of trikes -- his specialty -- but told me they had no chance of keeping up with a road bike on the flats so I didn't test ride any of them.

The recumbent bikes:

Hated the Grasshopper (I think that was it -- looks like the one on the website except it was USS). I made it less than a block before abandoning an attempted uturn and coming to a hurried stop. I'm guessing this is a design that requires countersteering. It also just seemed overly complicated looking at it (being a folding bike with suspension). I walked it back and moved on the the next...

The Spirit was nicely built, but very similar to my BikeE in speed & design (a little faster/more comfortable/better spec'd, but not enough to entice me). It was also the poorest-coasting bike of the bunch, so I'm starting to suspect that internal gear hubs give up some efficiency there in addition to when they are under load...

The ICE B1 was better -- there were two versions, one with mesh seat and the other hardshell (I definitely prefer the hardshell). It still wasn't as fast as a good road bike, but noticeably better than the Spirit (and BikeE). It was also super comfortable. It had pretty bad heal-strike when adjusted for my short legs (30" inseam) but Hugh said shorter cranks would make it less noticable. The real oddity was the floating-tilt handlebar (presumably for better entry/egress). That felt unsafe at first, but I quickly got used to it.

Surprisingly the least impressive looking bike was my favorite -- the Rans Vrex. It too had the some healstrike issues, but either not as bad as the ICE or by now I was more aware of how to avoid it (still have no idea how I would navigate a sharp uphill turn without walking). I wasn't thrilled with the handlebar clearance, but I think I could adjust them or swap them out for something less medievil. Still, despite its fairly low spec'd components (all more than adequate -- just a level you'd see on a $500 mountainbike), it was clearly the fastest of the bunch and was definitely in roadbike territory. Perhaps the larger rear wheel (26") should get the credit?


If the Vrex had a hardshell seat, I probably would have bought it right there on impulse. Alas, a hardshell seat isn't an option on the Vrex, and the closest to that (RANS F5) wasn't in stock (and is significantly different being a single beam with 2 650c tires).


So I'm kind of at a loss. $1500-$2500 buys a very nice new road bike, but they're just so uncomfortable at the end of a long ride. I keep thinking for <$1000 I ought to be able to radically modify the bikeE to be what I want, but it would be an expensive lesson if the result wasn't satisfactory. Plus with all the modifications I'm beginning to think are necessary for 18-20mph average speeds on a bikeE, I might as well start building a bent from "scratch" (spare road bikes)...

Guess I'll just keep chugging with it for now while keeping my eye open for something that's a better match.

I think your approach of trying out each bike available to you is a good one. I'd avoid buying a bike that you feels needs lots of mods.

I'm very pleased with my V-rex, which I've been riding about 5 years. I think performance wise you'd find it as comparable to a DF road bike as any recumbent. It will be faster on the flats, slower on climbs. That's assuming the same motor on both bikes, of course :) Speed enhancements include lighter wheels/narrower tires and a lighter seat pan. I don't have either.

I feel like it took a full season for my muscles to adjust to the recumbent, making a direct performance comparison difficult.

Regarding the mesh seat or the stock handlebar, I have not had a problem with either.

I have never been passed by a Bike E. Jack

Update on the coastability of the BikeE SRAM/Sachs 3x7 hub:

I took apart the rear hub today to try and see what is causing the extra resistance. Good news: There appears to be some room for cheap (though somewhat labor intensive) improvements to the bearing resistance of this hub. There are 3 sets of bearings in this hub, 2 sets for the axle and 1 set for the inboard side of the freehub:



All 3 sets use bearing cages -- which makes for easy assembly. Unfortunately, the use of bearing cages increases drag in the following ways:

A) fewer of the same size ball bearings are used when a cage is in place: there are 7 ball bearings with the cages -- without cages you would use 10 or 11 ball bearings (I can't recall which). This means the load is spread over fewer bearings (so each ball bearing compresses more than otherwise becoming that much less round).

B) the ball bearings have to rub against the cage as they rotate (instead of only having friction against the race and the cone)


This sounds trivial, but after removing the cages the axle spins noticeably smoother. Unfortunately, I was only able to replace the 2 sets of axle bearings -- it would take the patience & dexterity of a watchmaker to assemble the hub using loose ball bearings for the freehub race (way too easy for them to fall during assembly).


Thankfully, the quality of the races and cones isn't too bad (fairly hard and judging by the wear pattern -- fairly round). I suspect the drag *while pedaling* will be close to a Deore/Tiagra level when in direct drive (read: acceptable).

Unfortunately, this hub will never ever be as capable at coasting as a normal rear hub. Even if you could replace that freehub axle cage with loose ball bearings, the transmission itself has pawls which lightly drag against the inside of the hub body when coasting. The only way you could eliminate this drag would be to somehow put the hub in neutral with the pawls either fully retracted or with them shifted to the side of the ratcheted notches in the hub body (instead of dragging over them).


But even still, a 20" tire only cover 69% of the distance in 1 revolution that a 700c tire does -- basically meaning that a 20" wheel automatically has 69% of the bearing efficiency that a 700c does. Since a rear wheel doesn't typically add any frontal area, I see no reason not to use a large wheel (aside from weight -- but weight as a near negligable effect on steady-state speed).


Cliffnotes: bikeE rolls noticeably better now, but still doesn't appear to be a good platform for speed.

Installed 1.5" marathon racers this morning and went for a quick 20 mile flat ride today to break in the new bearings. I had also installed a new chain since the old one had a few stiff links from sitting for 7 years in the original owner's garage and they hadn't completely loosened up after lube + riding so far... I was a little concerned that the 85psi max pressure of the marathons wouldn't be enough (I believe the original cheng shin tires were 110psi rear 90psi front). But that fear proved to be unfounded as the bikeE definitely pedals much better now and might even be a little bit more comfortable over uneven asphault with the lower pressure. I was also feeling a little more spunky than normal (probably just a good day, but maybe the first sign of "bent legs?").

I did a max effort sprint about midway through the ride and was able to get up to 27mph, but couldn't maintain it. Someone had PM'd me advising me not to waste money upgrading the bikeE because it is so flexy (among other reasons). At the time I thought how can a single stout beam be flexy? Well when sprinting the back end felt like a wet noodle so now I understand. Between the seat frame rocking and the rear suspension trailing arms flexing, it seemed like the rear tire was moving 1" to either side of my head (keep in mind, despite the age this bike has less than 400 miles on it so the bushings should still be good). I don't notice the flex when spinning though -- just when hammering in a big gear.

On the way back to town I lucked out and passed a transit bus just as it was finished loading up passengers. It slowly passed me a few hundred feet later while I was cruising just under 20. I made a little extra effort to stay in its draft and was rewarded by an effortless 35mph (making me feel pretty good about the rolling resistance of the marathon racers + new bearings). We hit a stoplight a few miles down the road and some cars came up behind me so I had to move back into the bike lane, but it was fun while it lasted.

So overall, I'm a little more happy with it. Its no speed demon, but its not the rusty turtle it felt like a week ago. It still coasts horribly: From 20-15mph its just like when sitting fully upright on a road bike. From 15-10mph it feels like it has a tight hub. From 10-0 it slows as rapidily as if it has a brake dragging. If you pay attention, you can actually feel the clicks as the pawls pass the ratchet notches inside the hub... The good news is you can easily eliminate this drag by lightly spinning (not to apply any real power, but just to keep it from actually "coasting").

On the other hand, there is a glimmer of hope that this will still be "good enough" to do a 5 hour flat century once the motor gets into the swing of things. I can't imagine being welcomed into a roadie paceline, but perhaps a homemade fiberglass tailbox would be enough to solo? Besides, its fun to ride so I really shouldn't care about numbers, right? Stupid competitiveness/need-for-speed...

My opinion could quickly change tomorrow: I'll be attempting my first climb (7 miles @ 7% grade), so we'll see...

Sheepish update: my computer was set for 20" wheel instead of 16" All the speeds mentioned in the above post are 25% fast. Discovered that early today when I passed a neighborhood radar display going what I thought was 20 only to see it was 16... :crash:


Anyway, recalibrated the computer and set out for the climb. I plodded along at 15mph leading up to the hill, and crawled up at a whopping 4-5mph -- often in granny gear. I don't know if it was the effort, the slow speed, or the steering, but whenever I'd try to take in the sights at the sides of the road I'd get a little vertigo (anyone ever experienced this before?). It was also frustrating when my cadence would start to get low -- I couldn't upshift a gear and stand on the pedals to regain speed like a DF.

Finally made it to the top and took a little break. When I first stood up, I was welcomed by the worst tailbone pain. I hadn't noticed any discomfort up until then (nor in my previous rides), but it stayed with me the rest of the ride (and still lingers).

On to the descent... Maybe I'm getting old, but I've never been more afraid on a bike before. Once over 30mph (for real this time) the bike started getting a little twitchy -- manageable, but twitchy. At 40mph it was so bad I abandoned any hope of a speed record and started slowing it down. :twitchy: The wheelbase isn't that short, so I'm guessing it has more to do with the small tire and twig-like handlebar.


Anyway, I don't think Lance Armstrong could manage a 5 hour century on this thing, let alone me. But I'm still having fun with it, and having fun learning about bents. I'd strongly consider homebuilding a few bents to learn more about the various design compromises, but while I'm a decent welder, I'd feel overwhelmed trying to keep everything straight and true...