"The 33"-Road Bike Racing - Cat 4/5 races

Thinking about doing some races and I would be a beginner. How fast is the pace in most cat 4/5 races?

Thanks

take a look at Botto's thread stickied in the RR forum.

Don't worry about it, just go race.

This should probably be in the racing forum too.

Racing is an entirely different level of fast from what most people have experienced. The only way to really find out is to put on a number and toe the line.

Good luck.

Ya sorry this probably should be in the racing forum.

Ya probably

Have group rides round you? Go find a couple A pace and when you can pull for half of it then you are good to go......and when I say pull I mean pull at 33mph for 20 miles+





d[-_-]b

~23-24 mph

^
+1
Don't worry how fast, worry about staying in the pack. Start in the last row and hang on. Do not do like I did in my first race in May and get on the front row, lead the first lap and then completely BLOW! Got dropped and then lapped 2 times. 2nd race I stayed with the pack 6-7 laps and by the end was a half lap down, ok better. 3rd race stayed in the whole time, finished in the about 60%, last time race 4 finished in the middle.

STAY in the pack, hang on, get used to being in there, learn who some solid riders are that you can follow until you get used to this sheight!

I got dropped in one and averaged 22+ mph without a draft.

It depends on the type of race, the course, weather conditions, other racers, etc. Try to find a training race for beginners before jumping into a cat 4/5 race. 4/5 races can have a huge range of abilities and experience.

And have fun.

^^^

the race i'm talking about in my other post in this section is cat 5. the average time for last years first place winner was just over 49:00 for 15 miles. his avg mile was around 3:18. that's not a very hard pace at all. of course this race doesn't have any major climbs or anything, it's pretty basic. i would find one that you think you can keep up with though.

Don't worry about the pace. The hardest part is toeing the line. Just get out there and have fun.

And most importantly: Hold you line.

Here in Florida there is a Park called Brian Piccolo ... every Sunday and some weeks days they have races,the average depends of course on the cat you are in,but cat 3-4 they race for 45 minutes plus 3 laps and the average is a bit over 25 mph..Cat 1-2 they race at about 27-28 mph... ;)



http://www.broward.org/parks/bp.htm

It's not the "average" that's the bother. It's the maximum speeds.

For a cat5 race, I wouldn't be surprised to see surges of 28-30 and other periods at 18.

But as Sub said, the hardest part is pining the number on and toeing the line. Just do it.

well i did my first race today, was a cat5 crit race. I knew being dropped was inevitable so I got in the pack and held my own for about 60-70% of the race. It was fun, fast, and exhilarating. Then I got dropped like a bad habit. But boy did I enjoy myself.

Ive heard people say to ride with fast groups and what not, and i did... but there was nothing like racing and i loved it. Its towards the end of the season around here and I cant wait to train for next spring and see the improvement.

good luck and just do it man

Hey guys - I am in the same boat as others - considering my first CAT 5 race this weekend in the Troy Classic in Ohio.

I really just straight up lack the confidence to go out and do this though.

My good friend is a Pro that got me into riding and keeps urging me to race. I feel like I am new to the sport (have ben riding regularly for 2 years) and not at the ideal weight yet - when I go out there I really want to be able to hang on.

I am currently 5'11' and ~174 lbs (i could stand to lose about 10 more to be a slender race fit) and optimal power to weight.

I do group training rides 2-4 times a week which is a 20 mile loop with a few potential stop lights. I hang on fine now and am ok hanging onto surges up to 33 mph for a minute or so and ok with constant speeds of 25-27 mph when in the draft. I also ride 8-10 miles before and after the group ride so my daily rides are 35-40 miles.

If I pull through on a more moderate paced ride I can not pull for very long - I am just toast afterwards too (need a draft and moderate speed or a stop light to recover). I'd say 26-27 is the most I can pull for 15-30 seconds without needing to peel off. I can sprint ok at the end of the group ride also (35mph - my max has been 38).

My buddy says I have exceptional acceleration (I can jump and close gaps good). I suck at climbing, pulling through at the front, keeping any sport of power up when riding solo. I am ok at cornering.

I have this mind block that I need to get to get really thin before I go race (lose 10 more lbs) but most people would probably say I am thin already.

I just have this mental block about racing - scared of getting dropped - scared of crashing in a sloppy group when I am used to training with a *mostly cat 3* group - scared of dislocating my shoulder for the 3rd time or worse.

My cardio level, leg strength, and power/speed is all ready I think.

My tummy and brain are not though.

I am currently 5'11' and ~174 lbs (i could stand to lose about 10 more to be a slender race fit) and optimal power to weight.


I'm an inch shorter and a pound heavier. Go race.

Have group rides round you? Go find a couple A pace and when you can pull for half of it then you are good to go......and when I say pull I mean pull at 33mph for 20 miles+





d[-_-]b

Ok, tough guy. By the time you can do that, you can solo away from the front of a 4/5 race.

Hey guys - I am in the same boat as others - considering my first CAT 5 race this weekend in the Troy Classic in Ohio.

I really just straight up lack the confidence to go out and do this though.

My good friend is a Pro that got me into riding and keeps urging me to race. I feel like I am new to the sport (have ben riding regularly for 2 years) and not at the ideal weight yet - when I go out there I really want to be able to hang on.

I am currently 5'11' and ~174 lbs (i could stand to lose about 10 more to be a slender race fit) and optimal power to weight.

I do group training rides 2-4 times a week which is a 20 mile loop with a few potential stop lights. I hang on fine now and am ok hanging onto surges up to 33 mph for a minute or so and ok with constant speeds of 25-27 mph when in the draft. I also ride 8-10 miles before and after the group ride so my daily rides are 35-40 miles.

If I pull through on a more moderate paced ride I can not pull for very long - I am just toast afterwards too (need a draft and moderate speed or a stop light to recover). I'd say 26-27 is the most I can pull for 15-30 seconds without needing to peel off. I can sprint ok at the end of the group ride also (35mph - my max has been 38).

My buddy says I have exceptional acceleration (I can jump and close gaps good). I suck at climbing, pulling through at the front, keeping any sport of power up when riding solo. I am ok at cornering.

I have this mind block that I need to get to get really thin before I go race (lose 10 more lbs) but most people would probably say I am thin already.

I just have this mental block about racing - scared of getting dropped - scared of crashing in a sloppy group when I am used to training with a *mostly cat 3* group - scared of dislocating my shoulder for the 3rd time or worse.

My cardio level, leg strength, and power/speed is all ready I think.

My tummy and brain are not though.

You're overthinking it. You could be 10 lbs heavier, lighter....15% body fat....5% body fat. Regardless, you're not going to be any good without any experience.

Go in with no expectations. If you've gotten used to pack riding, then you're ready.

Here in Florida there is a Park called Brian Piccolo ... every Sunday and some weeks days they have races,the average depends of course on the cat you are in,but cat 3-4 they race for 45 minutes plus 3 laps and the average is a bit over 25 mph..Cat 1-2 they race at about 27-28 mph... ;)



ht tp://www.broward.org/parks/bp.htm

are they really that slow? :twitchy:

Hey guys - I am in the same boat as others - considering my first CAT 5 race this weekend in the Troy Classic in Ohio.

I really just straight up lack the confidence to go out and do this though.

My good friend is a Pro that got me into riding and keeps urging me to race. I feel like I am new to the sport (have ben riding regularly for 2 years) and not at the ideal weight yet - when I go out there I really want to be able to hang on.

I am currently 5'11' and ~174 lbs (i could stand to lose about 10 more to be a slender race fit) and optimal power to weight.

I do group training rides 2-4 times a week which is a 20 mile loop with a few potential stop lights. I hang on fine now and am ok hanging onto surges up to 33 mph for a minute or so and ok with constant speeds of 25-27 mph when in the draft. I also ride 8-10 miles before and after the group ride so my daily rides are 35-40 miles.

If I pull through on a more moderate paced ride I can not pull for very long - I am just toast afterwards too (need a draft and moderate speed or a stop light to recover). I'd say 26-27 is the most I can pull for 15-30 seconds without needing to peel off. I can sprint ok at the end of the group ride also (35mph - my max has been 38).

My buddy says I have exceptional acceleration (I can jump and close gaps good). I suck at climbing, pulling through at the front, keeping any sport of power up when riding solo. I am ok at cornering.

I have this mind block that I need to get to get really thin before I go race (lose 10 more lbs) but most people would probably say I am thin already.

I just have this mental block about racing - scared of getting dropped - scared of crashing in a sloppy group when I am used to training with a *mostly cat 3* group - scared of dislocating my shoulder for the 3rd time or worse.

My cardio level, leg strength, and power/speed is all ready I think.

My tummy and brain are not though.

You're plenty fit enough. Go race.

Ok, tough guy. By the time you can do that, you can solo away from the front of a 4/5 race.

:P This forum doesnt have a sarcasm smiley or I would of put it in there.

:P This forum doesnt have a sarcasm smiley or I would of put it in there.

:rolleyes:

When I came back to racing this year after 15 years away, the thing that took the longest was getting comfortable in the pack again. Even on group rides of about 20 riders, you don't get the feeling of being "encased" inside the pack like you do in an actual race situation. Speed wasn't nearly the issue as the sort of clausterphobia of being surrounded by so many people while going 25 or 30 mph.

The nice thing about starting young when I originally raced was that the number of racers was so small in the intermediate and junior groups that you really did build your experience riding in a pack so that it didn't seem all that big a deal when I went over to the regular categories.

If you can calm yourself down and remain in control, there shouldn't be all that many issues. If you get spit out the back, its just a learning experience.

The nice thing about starting young(ish, 20) for me is still being fearless and healing quickly.

The nice thing about starting young when I originally raced was that the number of racers was so small in the intermediate and junior groups that you really did build your experience riding in a pack so that it didn't seem all that big a deal when I went over to the regular categories.



Wow. When I started racing as a Junior we would regularly have packs of 70+ riders. My first race had Dale Stetina and David Myer-Oaks on a winning break away. Fast learning curve back then. And you had alot of european oldsters who leant their expertise and schooled you in riding. I would imagine its difficult to pick up bike racing as an adult these days, and whos around to teach you the fundamentals.

first cat5 races this past weekend for me.

saturday - was excited for the first race but didn't put ANY thought into strategy. Stayed with the pack for about 5 laps maybe then they began to pull away and I (very foolishly) did about 3 laps solo trying to catch the back of the pack but I finally gave up and let a couple riders behind me catch up and although we were pretty unorganized we gain a little bit on the pack but not enough to make any difference. 21 out 0f 36

sunday - came into the race with a strategy: stay with the pack and don't work harder than I have to! I stayed with the pack the entire race, all of it in the first 15 or so racers. Pack stayed together until the final laps. I wasn't paying as much attention as I should have and missed a great oppurtunity to move up or catch the wheel of a sprinter going by with about 1 lap to go. Anyways, I stayed up front as much as possible in the final lap then just hammered the last half lap. 7th out of 25 over all, I was pretty happy but I know still I have a lot to learn and I have some things to try out next weekend!

Thinking about doing some races and I would be a beginner. How fast is the pace in most cat 4/5 races?

Thanks

Faster than the speed on your chair right now. :)

Just do it! You'll love it, learn to love it or run (or ride, if you're bike is okay) far, far away from it.

Well done, MR6690! Amazing how quickly things happen, isn't it? Can't tell you how many times I've been humming along in the group, thinking everything is peachy, when there's an acceleration or a change in the wind, and all of a sudden I'm off the back. You're well ahead of where I was if you've figured this out in your second race.

Wow. When I started racing as a Junior we would regularly have packs of 70+ riders. My first race had Dale Stetina and David Myer-Oaks on a winning break away. Fast learning curve back then. And you had alot of european oldsters who leant their expertise and schooled you in riding. I would imagine its difficult to pick up bike racing as an adult these days, and whos around to teach you the fundamentals.

Not so much for me. My very first race ever was as an intermediate and the "pack" was 4 riders. I describe it now as a "mass start time trial" because everyone went off on their own pace and we didn't do a paceline or anything else. We all met up at the end of the 12 miles. I won and got an alarm clock.

Intermediate fields were really small, usually 2-6 riders. My Junior fields were bigger, about 15-30 entrants. I remember the Midget fields being under 10 riders too.

Well done, MR6690! Amazing how quickly things happen, isn't it? Can't tell you how many times I've been humming along in the group, thinking everything is peachy, when there's an acceleration or a change in the wind, and all of a sudden I'm off the back. You're well ahead of where I was if you've figured this out in your second race.


:) thanks. After that first race I was DETERMINED to at least stay with the pack. I made sure I kept my eyes peeled and tried to keep tabs on who was moving/when/why/where etc. etc. I have learned soooo much in just these 2 races. I can't wait to get back out there again this weekend and apply more of what I learned!



On a side note, just pick up a set of DT Swiss Mon Chasserals with the DT240 hubs, Michelin PR2's and Dura-Ace skewers (haha, I know it doesn't really matter but they are still very nice), for $350 :D

Can NOT wait to try them out tomorrow!

Geesh this stuff is addicting. I told myself this would be my last bike-related major purchase for awhile. Let's see how that turns out . . .

Well - I think I am going to do my first CAT5 race this weekend. As you say I need to prime my brain to go in with no expectations but experiencing it. My friend is a pro and is heading out to the Troy Classic to pick up a regional race this weekend and is bringing me out with him.

The race is a flat downtown - town square loop (see map). Its under 1.5 a lap and the race will be 12 laps for about 17-18 miles total.

My buddy has cautioned me to try and stay in the front half to avoid jamming up and having to jump gaps. Any tips for a course like this as a first time race.

http://www.troyclassic.com/images/course_map.jpg

Oh good lord that'll be a crash fest. Good luck, hold your line and watch for crashes in the 3-4 people in front of you if you're not at the front.

I am a pretty clean rider myself and have a pretty good group riding base. We have had several crashes in our training rides already this year and I've had deal with missing running people over and watching 3-4 bikes ahead while protecting my front wheel all year. I am not used to going 3-4 wide into a tight turn though.

Also most of the guys I ride with are probably Cat3 on average so its probably a safer group to be with than a CAT5 race. A friend has suggested skipping the CAT5 and jumping into a 3-4 group and trying to hang on as its safer and more organized but thats probably not a good idea for a first race.

I am a pretty clean rider myself and have a pretty good group riding base. We have had several crashes in our training rides already this year and I've had deal with missing running people over and watching 3-4 bikes ahead while protecting my front wheel all year. I am not used to going 3-4 wide into a tight turn though.

Also most of the guys I ride with are probably Cat3 on average so its probably a safer group to be with than a CAT5 race. A friend has suggested skipping the CAT5 and jumping into a 3-4 group and trying to hang on as its safer and more organized but thats probably not a good idea for a first race.

can you even do that?

I dont think specifically - a lot of regional races don't offer a specific CAT5 race and have a a 3-4 (and some 5's maybe) in one field - or a PRO/1/2, 1/2/3, etc.

So I guess its more about the race selection (on race may offer a set CAT5 field where another might have a mixed field with 4's that might be a cleaner group).

A cat 5 definitely wouldn't be allowed to ride the 3/4 race... Just a bit of advice, don't think just because you do group rides with cat 3's that you're any less sketchy than any other cat5 (or 4,3,2). We all do stupid things when you're on the rivet...

Well - I think I am going to do my first CAT5 race this weekend. As you say I need to prime my brain to go in with no expectations but experiencing it. My friend is a pro and is heading out to the Troy Classic to pick up a regional race this weekend and is bringing me out with him.

The race is a flat downtown - town square loop (see map). Its under 1.5 a lap and the race will be 12 laps for about 17-18 miles total.

My buddy has cautioned me to try and stay in the front half to avoid jamming up and having to jump gaps. Any tips for a course like this as a first time race.

http://www.troyclassic.com/images/course_map.jpg


Is that public square cobblestone? Please, please, please say yes! (If so, I'm calling my broker to buy all the Tegaderm stock he can get his hands on.)

My buddy has cautioned me to try and stay in the front half to avoid jamming up and having to jump gaps. Any tips for a course like this as a first time race.

(Maybe this is obvious, just throwing this out there)

It would also help to make sure you line up in front, and get a good jump in the beginning, to start in the front of the pack and stay there.

Moving up through the pack on that course looks tough, except for maybe the stretch on Main. Have fun!

No - its a paved roundabout thankfully. My friend say you have to watch it though because its long and gradual enough that you need to bank and pedal through it so its easy to hit your inside pedal on the road.

What kind of bikes are people riding in cat 5 races? I mean im sure there are guys rocking the expensive pro bikes, but like what is the average price range of bikes more people are riding?

What kind of bikes are people riding in cat 5 races? I mean im sure there are guys rocking the expensive pro bikes, but like what is the average price range of bikes more people are riding?

In NorCal Cat 5 races, I'd say the price range is $50 to $5000.

I plan on riding my '08 Trek Madone with Dura-ace in my first CAT5 race - probably total overkill. I'm a 30 year old with a career though so thats just the bike I got when I started riding seriously.

I wish I had my old Trek 2000 aluminum. I also don't plan on taking any of my new kits I just bought.

Someone I know wrote a funny blog about how a crash is like a pregnancy when having unprotected sex. If you race its gonna happen at some point and you shouldn't be surprised when it does.

He went on to write about crashing in training rides vs crashing in races and equated it to knocking your girlfriend up in high-school vs knocking your wife up (one being an unnecessary risk that shouldn't happen and the other basically being what you signed up for).

But anyways since cycling tends to attract a lot of middle aged men with jobs you see a lot of nice gear out there even on non-racers. If I had a less expensive/new bike to take into my first CAT5 race I probably would. I dont think a carbon dura-ace whatever vs an aluminum 105 whatever is gonna matter in a shot sloppy CAT5 race.

Well - I did my first CAT5 race this weekend. We had to travel to get there and had dogs/etc so I didn't get there as early as I had hoped (got in about a 3 mile warmup which wasn't enough). I was terribly anxious and a little nervous. At the start line i saw my heart beating high with jitters as I looked around and saw everyone looking pretty intimidating (toned shaved legs, a bunch of Zipp 404's, expensive bikes, etc). I was sort of surprised at how "not beginner looking" the field of about 30-35 was from a newer riders perspective.

I tried to keep myself towards the front but not in the front as I really just wanted to make sure I finished the race. It was 12 laps of the ~1-1.5 mile course I posted above. It was very flat with a 10mph headwind through the straight away. The turns all rolled easy accept the last 3 and the roundabout which was paved but still difficult for many to roll through.

There were 3 crashes - I narrowly escaped one by quickly rolling inside someone who hit their brakes in the middle of the corner and started to lose their back wheel. They took a couple other guys out and one guy crashed into the PVC toad divider. Once that happened I actually settled down and though - phew - you just avoided that - now you just have to hang on 6 more laps to the finish.

The pace was fine - it only stretched out in the straight a few times but never anything so fast that you couldn't stay on and with the wind an 10 corners the pace came right back down and recovery was no problem.

Once the last lap was coming my friend told me to move up to the front but I didnt know exactly when or how to do this so I say about 10th wheel out of the 20 riders that remained in the lead group from our start of about 25. The last two laps went much faster so I wasnt sure when or how to make a safe jump that wouldnt crash me or others.

It seemed like with 5 turns left I was thinking when/what should I do here, then 4 were left and I am still deciding not acting, then 3 left..2 left - all of a sudden I am in the round about and I didnt make a move so I just defaulted to go out wide and try and come around as may as I could sitting 10th.

I didn't have any draft but the group was sloppy and coming out wide in the roundabout so I just went outside thinking there is a good chance there will be a crash. I passed about 3 guys in the round about and then I pushed the last ~150m to the line and caught 3 more for 5th.

The race was a great experience and I was happy to finish and pass a few people for my spot. There were definitely about 10 or so guys that were in decent cycling form but noone strong enough to just ride away with a headwind.

The riders were pretty sloppy in some of the tighter corners (hitting breaks when there was room and jerking handlebars in the middle of the turns - not following lines). I guess the course is a little technical though (10 turns x 12 laps = 120 turns in the race for sloppy cornering) - there were multiple crashes in every race accept the womens. I made sure to give myself room to compensate for CAT5 sloppyness. I looked back at my data afterwards as I thought I was pretty comfortable and my average heart rate was only 151 so maybe I should shoot for a 4/5 field next time. Though I think in CAT there are probably a handful of guys that could hang onto the back of a 3/4 pace (maybe me - maybe not) but noone really seemed to have the confidence or speed to break away. Breaks/attacks were like 2mph faster than the group so there was nothing to really close.4

Anyways - I just wanted to share my experience. Here is a speed output of the race for anyone who is interested. Basially the course is just over a 1mi loop and it was a 12 lap/30 minute race. It had 10 turns and a 10mph headwind against you in the straight away.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2459/3738222969_9d58137e4f_o.jpg

Congrats. Good job!

Congrats. Good job!

Ditto, keep it up.

I have just recently wrapped up my 4th race this summer after finally arriving at what I would say is the initial starting ground of bike/race fitness journey. I started doing club rides last year and worked through the season to not get dropped. This year I finally made some progress and could ride in the trainers with more on tap and not get dropped so I decided I was wanting to try racing.

My 1st crit above was pure CAT5 and I got 5th/~35 - the average speed was ~24mph and my HR average was in the mid 150's

My 2nd crit was a pure CAT5 and I got 7th/~30 - same average speeds and HR.

My 3rd crit was a CAT4/5 field of 85 (they overloaded it) and I got 29th. This race was pure he11 - my average HR was 172 and the field was so big I was getting stretched out / killed by accelerations / gaps / sharp turns (course was a triangle). It was a battle to just hang onto the main field that essentially dropped more than 50% of the starting group. Avg speed was between 25-26 but the course and field size made this race much more difficult. I had to summon all my strength just to hang on to this. It was the first time I really suffered for any period of time and I walked away happy I wasn't dropped and amazed that I could sit at such a high average heart-rate for so long without getting dropped.

My 4th race was this weekend and was another large 4/5 field (75+) and I got 29th again. I thought the 3rd race was he11 - I was wrong, it was only purgatory - this 4th race was the hardest. Average speed of 26mph and my HR average was 177. I was pretty sure I was going to get dropped about a dozen times but I managed to just fight that - im not going to get dropped battle the whole race.

I took a couple good things from this race and was happy to finish where I did. I know where I am at and what I need to work on.

One of the problems is if you dont have that last little padding of fitness/strength/ability at lactic threshold you cant control your position much and fall to the back where its even worse. I need to work on handling as well as fitness as I am sure I could have made moves but just didn't have the confidence.

I had a few cat5 friends who did their first race as the 4/5 race I did and they both got dropped. I just wanted to share the difference I found in a large CAT 4/5 field vs a medium Cat 5 field. It can really change your first experience and if you get dropped - just get up and try again. In my race the guy who won the 4/5 also won the 3/4 earlier that day so he is probably on his way to a Cat 2 next year. I also hear a lot of CAT 4 guys saying how they had points to cat up to 3 but are waiting to do so until next year. They did the cat 3/4 race then also the 4/5 as it was a larger field/more money.

You can have a ton of competition or a good field of comparable fitness levels - don't get discouraged by the outcome of 1 race.

They did the cat 3/4 race then also the 4/5 as it was a larger field/more money.

There isn't supposed to be money in any field with 5s.

It was a CAT 4/5 mixed field - it was a sanctioned USA Cycling even with officials/etc.

The race organizer said something about rules dictating the payout scale and everything (x% of the entry fees paid out to the top 1/3rd of the field on some set payout scale).

It probably officially fell under a Cat4 race. Each Cat 4/5 race I was in had cash prizes to the top 1/3rd based on x% of entrant dollars. The pure Cat5 races had no cash - only prizes.