Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - Sugino 75 setup & chainline issues?????

I had my Sugino 75 BB installed today & just brought it home. I put the matching Sugino 75 chain ring on & gave it a spin by hand. The ring looks a little warped and the BB makes a little noise. Does this seem normal to those of you with build experience?

Also, I haven't put the chain on yet but I eyeballed the chainline & it looks off. I have brand new Formula hubs with a Surly cog & lockring installed.

I have to leave for a bit but hope I can figure out when I get home. A little frrustrating......

Thanks for any help,
-john

hmm I am running a 75 setup (bb, crankarms, ring) w/ a surly cog on a formula hub and the chainline is perfect. Are you sure the crank arm is all the way onto the taper? Once you bolt it down it might straighten things out by pushing the crankarm further up onto the spindle.

This forum is only good for questions about messenger bags, cheap sh*t, where to find cheap sh*t, "why did my cheap sh*t break?", "what should I do?" and "is this a good deal?" That's why I call this place Broke Forums.

Ask the mechanics for good answers: http://www.bikeforums.net/forumdisplay.php?f=10

is it on a track frame?

This forum is only good for questions about messenger bags, cheap sh*t, where to find cheap sh*t, "why did my cheap sh*t break?", "what should I do?" and "is this a good deal?" That's why I call this place Broke Forums.

Ask the mechanics for good answers: http://www.bikeforums.net/forumdisplay.php?f=10

you're so funny. Broke forums? rotflmao i almost spit my pbr all over my budget screen, luckily my ironic mustache caught it.




seriously though, i rarely see a thread topic in any subforum where someone says "my lbs wanted 225 for this crankset, is there anywhere i can spend more?"

Carleton--

what are you talking about? More people on this forum waste their $ on nice bike parts than anywhere else (except the roadie forum). This is a fine place to ask that question.

OP- also, wait till you put the chain on. For some reason, cogs and chainrings never look like they line up when I don't have a chain on. Then I put a chain on and am amazed that it's a straight line. Maybe it's just playing tricks w/ your eyes...

you can always use a stiff metal straightedge (or the side of a park frame alignment gauge if you have one) to gauge chainline. go under the chainstays, and ensure that you're on the flat of the ring and the cog— not on top of any chainring bolts or the spider itself.

I took the chain ring off & checked it on a glass tabletop. I used a piece of paper to check the tolerances of numerous points at different areas of the chain ring & it is SPOT on!

The spider seems to be a little crooked which I think is simply the arm is on a little crooked. Possibly not tightened all the way. Also, when I laid a chain across the chain ring & around the cog, the line is definitely straight. EXCEPT or a quck bend as it hits the chainring... which again tells me that the arm is a little crooked, again possibly not on all the way.

As for the noise, the mechanic just emailed me back saying to bring it back & he'd have a look. He said it takes more time to do but that he actually pulled the bearings out of the little cage & put them in individually. Reason being that the grease eventually gets thrown out of the cages & the little cages disintegrate basically.

-john

you're so funny. Broke forums? rotflmao i almost spit my pbr all over my budget screen, luckily my ironic mustache caught it.

seriously though, i rarely see a thread topic in any subforum where someone says "my lbs wanted 225 for this crankset, is there anywhere i can spend more?"

Touche.

btw, my post sounds mean because it was 90 degrees in my room because paying for AC is for chumps. i was a bit irritable


on that note, bfssfg is the place where you'll find someone who paid 1200 for a pake set up. where tires will cost 50 dollars not because of their unique rubber compounds for cornering, but because extra silica was thrown in for skidding durability and because it's white or pink or blue.

but then i don't spend much time in roadie because it's mostly pcad telling everyone to htfu and how great cervelos are. people do need to htfu, but repetitive nonetheless

btw, my post sounds mean because it was 90 degrees in my room because paying for AC is for chumps. i was a bit irritable


on that note, bfssfg is the place where you'll find someone who paid 1200 for a pake set up. where tires will cost 50 dollars not because of their unique rubber compounds for cornering, but because extra silica was thrown in for skidding durability and because it's white or pink or blue.

but then i don't spend much time in roadie because it's mostly pcad telling everyone to htfu and how great cervelos are. people do need to htfu, but repetitive nonetheless

ha seriously. That dude is annoying. I think he posts like 37 posts a day.

ha seriously. That dude is annoying. I think he posts like 37 posts a day.

Who, me?

pcad.

it sounds like you used the wrong bottom bracket it also sounds liek you are using the wrong terminology for parts

this is what I gleaned from you post
I had sg75 mounted on my bike today and I mounted the chainring the chainring seems warped and the chain line seems off

what brand is the ring what brand and model is the bb you are using did you mount the properly or did you do it wrong did you buy the parts second hand there is only so much one can do with out pictures and proper communication of the issue

what brand is the ring what brand and model is the bb you are using did you mount the properly or did you do it wrong did you buy the parts second hand there is only so much one can do with out pictures and proper communication of the issue

and yet there's so much one can do with a little punctuation.

Well, I guess I should clarify a little more for Retem:
The Crank Arms, Bottom Bracket & Chain Ring are all brand new, Sugino 75 parts. Every single part on the bike is brand spankin' new (I'm disclosing this info in case I have further questions).

I think a few of you are correct about it not being on all the way. I'm gonna swing by the shop tomorrow & have him re-check it.

As for the bearings, have any of you removed them from the little cages & put them in loose-style? Seems like there would be a bit of extra space, which would be the noise I'm hearing... bearings tapping together occasionally.

-john

Did you post this in the mechanic's forum?

Warped rings and BB noise are not strictly single speed and fixed gear problems. Those are problems that are common to just about ALL bicycle types. The mechanics forum* will likely have better answers.


*Yes, I'm sure that some of you guys are mechanics.

and yet there's so much one can do with a little punctuation.

and yet theres so much one can learn by reading a signature.

and yet theres so much one can learn by reading a signature.

honest question, does dyslexia affect comma and period use? i thought it was just reading and/or writing words (or groups of words) in a reversed-from-intended order.

If a shop installed the cranks/BB for you then, yes I would take it back in. Never had a problem with Sugino75 stuff and always got a near perfect chainline (have switched away from the S75 BBs to cheap-o campy sealed BBs which throw your chainline off by a 1mm).

If the ring looks warped I wonder if its not sitting on the spider correctly due to a burr or just needing a little tap to seat itself correctly. Either way your mechanic should be able to diagnose correctly.

Removing the bearings from the retainers shouldn't cause any real issues and you should get a smoother running BB. Retainers are there solely for convenience of maintenance/install (much easier to deal with retainers than 20+ individual bearings). Your BB may just be a little too tight which would make it appear noisey.

Sorry for your frustrating experience.

If you remove the bearings cages you need to add a few more bearings to make up for the empty space. Never had a Sugino bb so I don't know how many.

If you spin the cranks w/o the chain on and hear noise something is ****ed. My guess would be the shop put one or both cages in backwards. If a shop installed this take it back.

Try grabbing the crank arm in one hand and the frame in another. Try moving the crank arm in the direction the axle is pointed (not rotational). If there is any play the bb is loose.

If the ring looks warped I wonder if its not sitting on the spider correctly due to a burr or just needing a little tap to seat itself correctly. Either way your mechanic should be able to diagnose correctly.

My own experiences with Sugino 75 components are that they are top notch precision parts, that fit together perfectly. The machining of all the parts are excellent, and there are no no leftover burrs or the such. I have 4 Sugino 75 chainrings, and they are perfectly round and fit perfectly flat on the crankarm spider. Cheaper chainrings like Sugino Messenger and FSA are less perfect.

As far as the bottom bracket is concerned, I agree with you that it is most likely too tight. Also, the problem could be with the frame itself, if the bottom bracket shell threads are not aligned and the bottom bracket cups are not square.

If you spin the cranks w/o the chain on and hear noise something is ****ed. My guess would be the shop put one or both cages in backwards. If a shop installed this take it back.


Any shop that would install a bearing cage backwards is totally incompetent and I would not want them touching my bike.

I can feel a tiny bit of play when pulling on the crank arm (seated on the drive side & pulling it twords myself, not in the direction of the rotation).

I makes sense that if you toss the bearing retainers, there will be extra room for at least 1 more bearing. I asked him & he said only 11 bearings will fit in.

We'll see. Hopefully issue will be resolved by the end of the day.

Thanks for all the advice & such. I'll post here later when I have it figured out. I'm also gonna go post this in the mechanics forum.
-john

yup it ain't on all the way use torque wrench all will be good and right in the world

Sounds like the bb is loose.

It is the noise that concerns me. A properly adjusted bb should sound smooth, when you spin the cranks w/o the chain on. Do the cranks spin smoothly and spin for a long time (don't stop abruptly)?

They do spin pretty smoothly and for quite a few revolutions. I can however feel a suttle "something" when turning them.

I keep getting conflicting info on the loose bearing scenario. Some say you have to add a bearing & same say you shouldn't. ??
-john

Isn't there a Sugino manual that can help with this?

nah but a park tool blue book would

I keep getting conflicting info on the loose bearing scenario. Some say you have to add a bearing & same say you shouldn't. ??
-john

The cage holds 9 1/4" diameter bearings, and the race will accomodate 10 bearings and still have a 1/8" overall gap left, so you should definitely add one bearing for a total of 10.

Thanks Tejanotrackie. I actually think the Sugino 75 BB bearing recepticals haold 11 on each side. I also think the cups can't hold more that 11.

I just went back to the shop & pulled the arms off the spindle. Wrench them down a little harded when re-installing them & the chainring now spins straight.

Gonna put it all together when I get home & give it all a chance to set in together. See if the BB still sounds "loose".

thanks for all the info guys,
-john

Isn't there a Sugino manual that can help with this?

Probably, but can you read it?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_SPYEAmvnfRM/Sd1zDJrfnQI/AAAAAAAAAIY/_BEAj6T0E1k/s320/nihongo.gif

Well, got it all together & went for a spin. Smooth as butter & seems silent! Chainline is perfect as well! Had a blast. My legs are not strong enough to keep it from wanting to run down hill but I'm getting a brake so no biggie. Thanks for all the info you guys gave me on this. I really appreciate it. There will be a pic in the Surly pic thread very soon!

-john

My legs are not strong enough to keep it from wanting to run down hill but I'm getting a brake so no biggie.

Get a front brake immediately and don't ride it on the road again until you do so! Nobody can control a fixed gear downhill with their legs alone. You risk high-siding and extensive injuries.

I'm happy everything worked out for you. Sugino 75 is great stuff and will last a lifetime. Enjoy. :)

I'm trying to figure out which brake to purchase right now. I'm definitely not into injuries.

-john