Road Cycling - road tires

does it matter what type of road tires i get? im planning to get the ocr 2, 2003 version. the tires that come with it are 700 x 25c. i've seen 700 x 23c tires and i think they are thinner. does it really make a difference whether i get thinner or thicker tires? and my next question is regarding the "c" in the tire measurements. what does the "c" stand for?

Generally speaking, thinner tyres will offer lower rolling resistance as the contact patch is smaller. Also you can usually pump thinner tyres to higher pressures. My 700Cx23 Continental GP3000s have a max pressure rating of 120PSI whereas its 700Cx20 cousin has a max rating of 160PSI. Also, thinner tyres will be lighter. That said, I've heard many people say that they notice very little difference between riding 19mm to 23mm tyres. And keep in mind that thinner tyres at higher pressures will provide for a bit harsher ride than 25mm tyres at 100PSI.

The "C" is a holdover from the old French system of designating tyre width. It's all a bit arbitrary in modern real world measurements. Sheldon Brown does an excellent job of explaining tire sizing (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tire_sizing.html).

Well it all depends on your purpose. Most of the people I know ride 20 or 23 mm tires. But most of them want to maximize performance. The notion on this is the lighter the tire, the less rotational weight and the less rolling resistance and more acceleration. I ride 25 because I think they wear a bit longer, they are a bit more flat resistant and I am reasonably large and the larger tire helps too. Also the ride is nicer on a bigger tire. But most of my riding is solo so wear time and flat resistance are more important to me then solely maximizing performance.

I have a friend who was riding 20 mm and he switched to 23 and was amazed at how much nicer the ride was but he was over 200 lbs. A light rider could ride 20 mm without any problem at all.

does it matter what type of road tires i get?
Depends on what type of riding you do and where you're riding.
If you're riding on the roads and there is lots of glass, trash, potholes, etc. you'll need a tire that won't go flat every time you hit something.
Try Continental GP3000. That's what I use. ~1500 miles between flats.

I have used the 20 and the 23 tires.. decided to stay with the 23.

There is not much difference between the two, except that you feel the weight of the bigger tire when climbing and accelerating(sprinting). But the difference in not distinctively significant. If you are doing a TT, the 20s might give you a slight advantage. But in the road conditions here, I'de rather get the slower and heavier tire than get a flat.

I beleive the weight plays a more significant role in the performance of the tire, than the size itself. my 20mm tire weighs 220g while my 23mm weighs 265g. If you think about it, the 45g difference is not that much.... ;)

I use Hutchinson Carbon Tires(700x23) and Maxxis Duex(700x20) BTW.

Generally speaking, thinner tyres will offer lower rolling resistance as the contact patch is smaller.

Actually, the opposite is true; given the same pressure, wider tires will have lower rolling resistance. The contact patch area is determined by the weight on the tire and the pressure inside of it. If your bike/rider weight is 200 lbs and you pump your tires to 100 psi, there will be very close to 2 square inches of contact patch area between the two tires regardless of tire width.

A wider tire won’t have to flex as much to get the same contact patch area and will therefore have lower rolling resistance.



Also you can usually pump thinner tyres to higher pressures.

This, of course, will lower the rolling resistance, but at the expense of comfort.

As mentioned, the downside of wider tires is weight, but they are less likely to have a pinch flat. Personally, I run 23’s.

-murray

I dont know anybody on 20's and more riders going to 25's but still most on 23's.

Actually, the opposite is true; given the same pressure, wider tires will have lower rolling resistance.

Yes. I should have stated that most people run the higher pressures on thinner tyres as compared to wider ones. I was making a blanket statement at the beginning so that I could break it down to specifics later on.

I dont know anybody on 20's and more riders going to 25's but still most on 23's.

I had 20s for a while... ugh every bump was like a jack hammer and the bike was skittish in corners. 23 is the sweet spot for me. People should be aware that there are significant differences between brands even when the ETRTO sizes are the same.

I've got 700x23 Contis and 700x23 Schwalbe Stelvio (both marked as 23-622). The Schwalbes are noticably narrower... side by side I'd call the Schwalbes 23 and the Contis a 25.

23's the standard for road bikes and 25-28 for touring.

Different brand tires marked the same size can really be different widths. I had been using Conti GP3000 tires in the 25 mm width. I replaced them with Michelin Axial Carbon tires in the same size. The Michelins are noticeably larger, which suggests the Contis are narrower than 25 mm (I doubt Michelin would make their tires larger than the marked size).

If cost is no object, the more expensive racing tires will give you a better ride, but they will not last as long. The heavier you are, the shorter the life of your rear tire.

well, im about 140 lbs. and im thinking about switching to 23c tires on the ocr 2. would it be possible to put 23c tires on the "Mavic CXP 22, 32H" rims? im a newbie to road cycling but i would like to have thin tires, something thinner than 25c because i think that 23c looks more sleek and seems to me that 23c would be a better fit for me because of my size. btw, my expectations regarding the tires is speed, that's the whole reason for me getting a road bike. (i can get about 30 mph on my mountain bike on flat road.) how fast do you guys think i can get on a road bike? one other question i have is that when i stand bike on a road bike i seem to wobble quite a bit, does anyone have any tips on how to achieve better stability?thx for the help everyone!

Would it be possible to put 23c tires on the "Mavic CXP 22, 32H" rims?
Yes, no problem.



I can get about 30 mph on my mountain bike on flat road. how fast do you guys think i can get on a road bike?
With work, you'll be able to get to 30 mph. With more work, you'll go even faster.



When I stand bike on a road bike I seem to wobble quite a bit, does anyone have any tips on how to achieve better stability?
This one is easy - ride, ride, ride. Then ride some more. Nothing teaches like experience.

Glad I could be so helpful. :)

55/Rad

I would ask what kind of riding habits you have. Are you a performance-obsessed weight-weenie type? Personally, I dig 700x25 tires. Riding in the city, I like a little more rubber on the ground. If I were racing on a nice road course, I'd probably opt for something slimmer, but for everyday stuff, I like a slightly fatter tire.

If your racing then go with 23's since as others have said it would be lighter; there's still controversy whether or not 25's have the same amount of friction, but I do know that most pro road racers run 23's, so there must be a reason. If your commuting to work or riding on city surface streets or county roads for exercise or training or a clydesdale then go with 25's or 26's, these will last longer as one said, but they also handle a bit better, stop a tad quicker, less susceptable to snake bite flats; plus they are more comfortable due to more air volumn; but most importantly they have less of a tendancy to drop into ruts or groves on the roads, and if you cross an uneven surface they will roll over it better instead of skidding along side of it. If your touring on a road bike a 28 is better, most touring bikes run 37's.

If your racing then go with 23's since as others have said it would be lighter; there's still controversy whether or not 25's have the same amount of friction, but I do know that most pro road racers run 23's, so there must be a reason. If your commuting to work or riding on city surface streets or county roads for exercise or training or a clydesdale then go with 25's or 26's, these will last longer as one said, but they also handle a bit better, stop a tad quicker, less susceptable to snake bite flats; plus they are more comfortable due to more air volumn; but most importantly they have less of a tendancy to drop into ruts or groves on the roads, and if you cross an uneven surface they will roll over it better instead of skidding along side of it. If your touring on a road bike a 28 is better, most touring bikes run 37's.
Good points, 23's V's 25's that's only 2mm difference on the road surface, I sacrifice comfort and a little less handling with 23's though there quick in and arround city trafic or open road.

does it matter what type of road tires i get? im planning to get the ocr 2, 2003 version. the tires that come with it are 700 x 25c. i've seen 700 x 23c tires and i think they are thinner. does it really make a difference whether i get thinner or thicker tires? and my next question is regarding the "c" in the tire measurements. what does the "c" stand for?
That would be the cross section of the tyre [width].

im not really racing but i do like to go fast on city streets and at the strip down by Ocean Beach (im from San Francisco.) im ride on city roads almost 5 times a week for exercise and because i really like the speed. i rather not use the 25c tires because a few of you have said that they have more friction but in another sense it might be better to use 25c tires as they would help me stop quicker due to my speed. call me a "wanna-be" but i would like to have tires close to the ones that pros use. they look so thin and sleek. that's another reason for wanting a road bike as opposed to a mountain bike. thx again for the help everyone!

Get a set of Michelin Pro Race tires and you should be all set! I've tried lots of tires and so far these have been great. A good combination of eveything good about a tire. www.biketiresdirect.com is a good place to go for a good price on them. Rather light, strong, don't flat that easy, handle great, wear ok, roll good, look sharp feel comfortable; etc. And yes they are 23C and you will feel glued to the road! I will buy them again! Enjoy!

Ok, I'm going to rattle the "tire cage" here. If you're not racing avoid the "racing" tires. These tires are made for the sole purpose of RACING. At $40 to $60 each you really don't want to go through a set or two each year. I've found that these tires generally wear extremely fast and do not hold up well under everyday street riding.

I have been riding (installed on 3 different road bikes) Continental Ultra Gatorskin's that are 700 x 23C for about 2 1/2 years. I changed my first set after 4500 miles. I hope I don't doom myself here but between the two bikes I ride and my wifes which all have UltraGator's on them with a combined mileage of 12,000 + miles we have not had a flat since the 2002 Lance Armstrong Ride for the Roses and that was due to a razor blade. I ride 35-miles twice a week in training races and 50 - 75 miles on Sunday mornings. These tires are great.

As far as the weight issue goes, 45 - 60 grams more weight per tire is like putting a energy bar in your pocket. In a 40k time trial this may increase your time by 10- 15 seconds. This minute weight difference will not hinder your climbing unless you are attacking a climb that is 2 miles or longer. WOW! How long does it take to change a flat on one of those fancy paper thin racing specific tires? Ultralite tubes are another waste of money. Want to improve your performance. Lose 5 lbs from your body and save $60 on tires and tubes. A 16 lb. bike will climb and accelerate better if the rider can drop 5 - 10 pounds. I lost 15 pounds and my average speed increased by 5 mph and my climbing also improved. Best of all it was free.

Best way to go is to get a durable tire like the Gator and run regular tubes and enjoy the ride. Schwable makes a nice tire that is affordable and holds up well.

I generally put around 3500 to 4000 miles on Conti GP3000 "racing" tyres. I got a flat when my last set wore thin at over 4000 miles. I have ridden with people who constantly get flats on their Conti Gatorskins. The last one my friend had was a puncture that went through both the tyre and the Mr. Tuffy liners. He also said he's had many flats previously. The tyre had around 500 miles on them.

Here's a picture of his Conti Gatorskins after we took it apart, layered the remnants of several Mr. Tuffy strips over one another to perform as a tyre boot and reinflated...

http://www.neebu.net/~khuon/albums/whidbey_island-20040516/PICT0083.jpg

So let's see... over 12,000 miles worth of good experience on GP3000s with only one flat vs. multiple flats encountered by multiple people using Gatorskins and Mr. Tuffy liners... I think I'll just continue riding the GP3000s, thank you.

I generally put around 3500 to 4000 miles on Conti GP3000 "racing" tyres. I got a flat when my last set wore thin at over 4000 miles. I have ridden with people who constantly get flats on their Conti Gatorskins. The last one my friend had was a puncture that went through both the tyre and the Mr. Tuffy liners. He also said he's had many flats previously. The tyre had around 500 miles on them.

Here's a picture of his Conti Gatorskins after we took it apart, layered the remnants of several Mr. Tuffy strips over one another to perform as a tyre boot and reinflated...

http://www.neebu.net/~khuon/albums/whidbey_island-20040516/PICT0083.jpg

So let's see... over 12,000 miles worth of good experience on GP3000s with only one flat vs. multiple flats encountered by multiple people using Gatorskins and Mr. Tuffy liners... I think I'll just continue riding the GP3000s, thank you.


What the heck did the rider run over? I've never seen a puncture that left that type of hole in a GatorSkin or any tire at that rate. I can't see how anyone could flat with UltraGators AND Mr. Tuffy liners. It's just not in the cards. Take an old GP3000 and that blown Gator and push an ice pick through both and see which is more resistant. Conti GP3000's are pretty good tires although I've seen plenty of people slide them sideways and tear the outer layer off. I like the GP3000 but with the success of the Gator's I'll stand by them and highly recommed them. Another consideration is the riding habits of people. Some poeple insist on riding through glass and gravel on shoulders and at intersections and complain about getting a flat.

Either these riders are careless or just have bad luck.

If you're interested in Michelin Pro Race tires, BIKETIRESDIRECT.COM (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=42334&item=3683074632&rd=1) sells even cheaper on eBay. I have purchased two pairs for about $60 each! It's hard to beat that price!!!


:eek:

Ed

Conti GP 3000 are not racing tires, though you could use them to race on just like I knew a few guys that raced on Specialize Armadillo's (375grm)! (their reasoning was no loss time fixing flats-it may have worked because they won). A racing tire is something like Veloflex Record that weighs 145 grams and will last about 800 miles or so, or the Conti Supersonic etc. And with racing tires you use ultralight 70grms or less tubes because the whole point is to reduce weight.

If your using a flat resistent tire such as the Specialize Armadillo you can very easily use a ultralight tube (I do) and not have any problems with flats; I use Specialize 65grm Ultralights. Heavier tubes DO NOT help prevent flats, tires is your first line of defense against flats. The only time heavier tubes are of any value is if your using tire liners because the liners have a tendancy to rub thinner tubes and eventually wear a hole into it.

Mr Tuffy liners are good, but when I lived in Goathead city them little buggers would slip pass the liners. plus the Tuffy does nothing for sidewall penetrations, and most tires have no sidewall protection, exception being the Armadillo's which have a very tough sidewall and the new Conti 4 Seasons with a lighter not as tough version. If your commuting I would think flats would be something you would want to avoid because you sure don't want to be late to work and have to explain to your boss every week why you were late.

Conti GP 3000 are not racing tires, though you could use them to race on just like I knew a few guys that raced on Specialize Armadillo's (375grm)!

Interesting though that Conti bills them as racing tyres. How dare they! :D I don't really care as I don't race. All I know is that these tyres have decent wear life, are fairly lightweight, durable and roll really nice. I'm not having any problems with them so I'm going to stick with them. And yes, I do also use ultralight tubes.

Ok, I'm going to rattle the "tire cage" here. If you're not racing avoid the "racing" tires. These tires are made for the sole purpose of RACING. At $40 to $60 each you really don't want to go through a set or two each year. I've found that these tires generally wear extremely fast and do not hold up well under everyday street riding.

I have been riding (installed on 3 different road bikes) Continental Ultra Gatorskin's that are 700 x 23C for about 2 1/2 years. I changed my first set after 4500 miles. I hope I don't doom myself here but between the two bikes I ride and my wifes which all have UltraGator's on them with a combined mileage of 12,000 + miles we have not had a flat since the 2002 Lance Armstrong Ride for the Roses and that was due to a razor blade. I ride 35-miles twice a week in training races and 50 - 75 miles on Sunday mornings. These tires are great.

As far as the weight issue goes, 45 - 60 grams more weight per tire is like putting a energy bar in your pocket. In a 40k time trial this may increase your time by 10- 15 seconds. This minute weight difference will not hinder your climbing unless you are attacking a climb that is 2 miles or longer. WOW! How long does it take to change a flat on one of those fancy paper thin racing specific tires? Ultralite tubes are another waste of money. Want to improve your performance. Lose 5 lbs from your body and save $60 on tires and tubes. A 16 lb. bike will climb and accelerate better if the rider can drop 5 - 10 pounds. I lost 15 pounds and my average speed increased by 5 mph and my climbing also improved. Best of all it was free.

Best way to go is to get a durable tire like the Gator and run regular tubes and enjoy the ride. Schwable makes a nice tire that is affordable and holds up well.
Iv been riding on gattor skins [no flats]for a few months and highly recomend them :)

okay, now im a bit confused. if i wanted 23c tires what type of tube would i use? tires are specified as 23c, correct? as well as the tubes, correct? so, would i get both 23c tube and tire?

okay, now im a bit confused. if i wanted 23c tires what type of tube would i use? tires are specified as 23c, correct? as well as the tubes, correct? so, would i get both 23c tube and tire?
You would need a 700x23c tube for a700x23c tyre, this tube would also fit a 700x25c tyre .

Seriously, buy the thinnest, lightest racing tires and tubes available. Then you will know.:)
BTW--i love my 25's:)

okay, now im a bit confused. if i wanted 23c tires what type of tube would i use? tires are specified as 23c, correct? as well as the tubes, correct? so, would i get both 23c tube and tire?

Most tubes have a range of sizes they'll fit. Some are specified as fitting a specific width but can usually be used +/- 4mm.

Seriously, buy the thinnest, lightest racing tires and tubes available. Then you will know.:)
BTW--i love my 25's:)
I to ride on somithing thats practical /not over priced for the roads I ride on,continentale gator skins are my choice,with my average road speed being 26-30kmh.

Do your research within the brand tyre you're interested in and among different brands. For some brands, their 23c tyre is good for 120psi and another brand might have a 25c rated at 120psi (or more). I'm not promoting Vredestein tyres, but I have been using them and they're a good example. Their 23c is rated at 145psi and their 25c is marked for 120psi. Now a racer would go for the 23c and put 150psi in it. But my last race was many years ago. I had been using the 23c's and filling to 120psi. This is what I liked. Then after some research, I went to the 25c's and fill them to 120psi. In this example the 25c's that I'm now using have less rotational friction than did my 23c's, and the shock absorbing characteristics are slightly better. As someone stated earlier, the contact patch is determined by the air pressure in the tyre and the weight of the tyre load. But, the contact patch isn't where the rotational drag (friction) is created in the tyre. It's in the flexing of the tyre sidewall as it rotates.

Tires aren't that expensive that you couldn't try a few out, different sizes, brands, weights.

When I was younger and lighter, ~140 lbs, I rode the lightest tires I could find, which were 700x19, or I rode silks, even in the city. I assume the sizes are still the same. Now that I'm older getting back into this, I'm still riding the old tires, but I would still want light, thin tires when I replace them. My only concern is my weight, which had increased to 190+, but is now back down to 165 or so, thanks in part to cycling. The tires on my Davidson are currently a Clement Criterium in the front and a Michelin Hi-lite pro 700-23 in the rear, both getting really old and needing replacing. But I haven't gotten any flats riding in NYC this year, about 90 miles/week, so maybe I should stick with them until I need new. My front clincher wheel is long dead, so I use one of my two sew-up wheels. I inflate before every ride to about 110. 120 feels so hard on the street.

And for the ultimate ride there is nothing like a silk sew-up. I wonder what that would feel like on one of today's lighter bikes.