Commuting - "I'm Not Your Workhorse!!!"

NOTE: If the crybaby in this story is one of our forum buddies, I apologize in advance.

My buddy just emailed this to me; happened to him on his way in this morning. The speeds we are talking about were in the 25mph range for the first section and 30 mph range for the 2nd section. Even though my buddy may have been in the wrong (debatable), his run in with this whiney little pus is pretty funny!:lol:

Part of what makes this funny is that my buddy wears more traditional commuting gear and does not always look as fast as he his. Baggy shorts, big old green school type backpack...the whole works. But if you are going to to talk smack to him, you had better be able to hang at 30 mph for a while. LOL


Hey guys… I’ve got a good story…

I had a nice little experience with a cycling snob this morning. I was going down Ustic and pulled up to the light at Eagle. There were a couple riders there. They weren’t riding together they just both got stopped at the light. One guy was a commuter with flat handlebars. The other guy was all decked out with nice gear and had a nice specialized bike. The guy with all the nice stuff was talking to the other guy like a know-it-all.

Anyway the light changes and we take off, the commuter guy gets left behind so I got onto the wheel of Mr. Know-It-All. He speeds up a bit in an effort to drop me. He doesn’t drop me looks back and says “Hey! Are you trying to draft me!”

In my head I’m thinking I’m not trying to draft you I am drafting you. Then he says “I’m not your workhorse! I’ll draft you!!”

So then I preceded to change him from my workhorse into my little beeach and I dropped his sorry but.

what a tool!

ouch...

I think being a domestique for other commuters is an underrated and under appreciated role. :)

Brings a smile to my face and warms my heart.

I don't draft complete strangers I happen to meet on the road, and I don't like pulling them, either. My commute has enough stop signs and lights to make drafting more trouble than it would be worth, anyway.

Funny story, though.

what a tool!

Which one?

A complete lack of manners all around.

I'm finding riders who will share the pull on almost every ride.

If the rider passes me, I'll ask if he wants to share the pull. If he says yes, I'll trade the lead with him every mile. After about 4 miles, I'll thank the guy and fall back.

If I pass a rider and he expects a pull, I'll tell hem to lead after 2 miles. If he just sits there, I'll slow and require him to lead or I'll just pull ahead. Often the wheel sucker can be trained to work as a team-mate.

The key is communication.

Michael

A complete lack of manners all around.

I'm finding riders who will share the pull on almost every ride.

If the rider passes me, I'll ask if he wants to share the pull. If he says yes, I'll trade the lead with him every mile. After about 4 miles, I'll thank the guy and fall back.

If I pass a rider and he expects a pull, I'll tell hem to lead after 2 miles. If he just sits there, I'll slow and require him to lead or I'll just pull ahead. Often the wheel sucker can be trained to work as a team-mate.

The key is communication.

Michael

Agreed...this is a great way to handle it. I have never had an issue but I usually announce my presence and suggest that we share work. In fact, I met one of my best riding buddies this way.

I think being a domestique for other commuters is an underrated and under appreciated role. :)

LOL, yep, I don't mind pulling but if they ask me to go get them some water I have my limits. :)

I have never understood why people have a problem pulling strangers. It is actually pretty hard to take out someone's rear wheel with your front. Usually the guy drafting goes down and the one up front just gets a startling experience. And even that is in the rare chance of an adverse event.

In fact, I often make a "follow me" sign when I pass guys I think are capable of benefitting from my draft". No skin off my back.

Which one?

+1 both of them are jackasses.

+1 both of them are jackasses.

I think you mean "behaved like jackasses". The crybaby is probably a nice guy and I know my buddy is a nice guy.

Who gives a flying flip at a rolling donut if someone drafts them on a commute anyway?

I make the assumption that you're out to have a good ride and maybe get some exercise in. Does anyone really care if the guy behind you is doing less work? There's no danged finish line, no prize for getting to work sooner than the other dude (who's likely not going the same place). Team tactics don't apply on any normal commute.

That said, I don't suck wheel on my commutes, simply because I'm a raging fattie and need the extra 30% of work one puts in when not in a draft.

If your friend can hang at 30mph and he is not going down hill then he should be racing not commuting.

LOL... Hilarious and I agree bad manners and lack of courtesy all around.

It's not like the guy drafting is hurting the puller... HOWEVER, if I didn't feel comfortable with the guy behind me for safety reasons I would ask him to back off. How do I know this guy knows what he is doing and isn't going to run into me if I slow down or need to stop or touch my wheel?

Touching the wheel I probably wouldn't fall, but he would... And I would probably stop my commute to help. It's all troublesome.

If your friend can hang at 30mph and he is not going down hill then he should be racing not commuting.

What if he commutes to his job on the weekdays and goes out on the weekends and wins in Cat2?

Drafting seems to be a touchy subject with a lot of people, personally I don't care although in most cases, a quick "may I" is always appreciated.

If someone is particularly obnoxious however, generally I'll slow enough to let them pass and as soon as they are 40-50 feet up the road, I'll match their speed. Invariably they try to speed up until they drop you. If they do; good on them. If they don't; most people will blow themselves up trying, at which point you drop the hammer and smile. I always manage my 40-50 foot buffer since as many people have said, you really don't know anything about one's riding ability or how much brain they use while riding. I prefer to not get sucked into someone else's bad judgement. A buffer zone allows you to make your own decisions, and lets the other person know that you don't need a draft to keep up the pace.

Since drafting etiquette isn't universal outside of roadie culture it's rude in my opinion to assume that it's OK to draft random people without asking. That you yourself wouldn't mind being drafted is beside the point.

It's probably not that smart either. I know somebody who got her self severely messed up by running into the rear tire of another cyclist. All it takes for trouble is for an inexperienced draftee to hit the brakes hard without warning or signaling.

I do the occasional group ride with a low key cycling club. The leader always encourages new people to try drafting but he also stresses that in order for the group to draft successfully and safely it's important for everyone to ride as smoothly as possible. No quick stops. Hold your line in turns. etc.

Also if you're following right behind somebody, your visibility is limited. In a group ride signals are used to compensate for this. So even if somebody is OK being drafted and is experienced in those situations it is a good idea to let them know you are there so they can warn you of upcoming road hazards or changes in pace.

What if he commutes to his job on the weekdays and goes out on the weekends and wins in Cat2?

Nope..but he probably could. He regularly hands it to me at speeds near or at 30. The real question is not how fast someone can ride, but how logn they can ride at that speed.

I ride a bike that pretty much guarantees that anyone who would want to draft off of me wouldn't.

Of course, seeing a roadie drafting behind a 60lb xtracycle would be a sight to behold. Now I just gotta figure out how to get this thing to go fast enough so roadies would want to draft off of me.

Awesome...just awesome. :)


I ride a bike that pretty much guarantees that anyone who would want to draft off of me wouldn't.

Of course, seeing a roadie drafting behind a 60lb xtracycle would be a sight to behold. Now I just gotta figure out how to get this thing to go fast enough so roadies would want to draft off of me.

Skinnier tires and a lot of dedication. I had this happen just the other day! :)

I ride a bike that pretty much guarantees that anyone who would want to draft off of me wouldn't.

Of course, seeing a roadie drafting behind a 60lb xtracycle would be a sight to behold. Now I just gotta figure out how to get this thing to go fast enough so roadies would want to draft off of me.

Actually, the freeloaders would easily conceal a rear-wheel electric system.

Since drafting etiquette isn't universal outside of roadie culture it's rude in my opinion to assume that it's OK to draft random people without asking. That you yourself wouldn't mind being drafted is beside the point.

It's probably not that smart either. I know somebody who got her self severely messed up by running into the rear tire of another cyclist. All it takes for trouble is for an inexperienced draftee to hit the brakes hard without warning or signaling.

I do the occasional group ride with a low key cycling club. The leader always encourages new people to try drafting but he also stresses that in order for the group to draft successfully and safely it's important for everyone to ride as smoothly as possible. No quick stops. Hold your line in turns. etc.

Also if you're following right behind somebody, your visibility is limited. In a group ride signals are used to compensate for this. So even if somebody is OK being drafted and is experienced in those situations it is a good idea to let them know you are there so they can warn you of upcoming road hazards or changes in pace.

I agree wholeheartedly... Any time you're inches away from someone, there's an implicit amount of faith and trust that comes into play. With a stranger you never really know if those are misplaced.

In our current situation, Sawtooth's buddy was a bit put-off by Mr. Roadie's air of superiority and wanted to do a little passive/aggressive chain-pulling. It worked to the point that he could e-mail mail his friends and gloat about it.

Yes, he gave in to the dark side... And I doubt that Mr. R actually was humbled by getting dropped (those guys rarely are). In the end we have no winners here. But the discussion of road etiquette was worth the tale. :)

The one time I let someone draft off me, he nearly crashed me out when he overlapped my rear wheel then decided it was a good time to change directions.

never again.

Mutual jackassery.

Who gives a flying flip at a rolling donut if someone drafts them on a commute anyway?

I had a wheelsucker run into the back of me when I stopped at an intersection (even signalled) that he apparently wanted to run through. If it's not a group ride and I don't know you, you aren't drafting off me.


If your friend can hang at 30mph and he is not going down hill then he should be racing not commuting.

Fast people aren't allowed to commute?

Fast people aren't allowed to commute?

Nope. And don't even think about wearing your team kit on the way to work!

I agree wholeheartedly... Any time you're inches away from someone, there's an implicit amount of faith and trust that comes into play. With a stranger you never really know if those are misplaced.

Yes. And I'll be honest. I enjoy group rides as much for the social interaction as for the riding. My commute is different though, especially on the way home. Even though there are almost always other cyclists around, -even in the worst weather, I enjoy the ride home for the sense of solitude it provides. It lets me wind down after a work day full of dealing with other people.

So even though I'm comfortable with both drafting and being drafted I generally don't want somebody on my wheel during my commute.

Bike snobs are teh sux0rz! Glad he got his come-up-ins. ;)

Who gives a flying flip at a rolling donut if someone drafts them on a commute anyway?

Some people care, and that's all you need to know. You're ok with some random cruising up behind you and drafting off you? Great. Don't expect everyone else to be ok with it, and act accordingly.

I love drafting and don't mind in the least if someone wants to suck my wheel.

It should not be done however without asking first.

In a related matter, this morning I went for a ride with a few guys I work with. Gary is painfully slow. Darren, the last time we went out was strong enough to drop me like a hot potato on climbs and eventually shake me on the flats no matter how shamelessly I drafted him.

I now have a quicker bike (his old trek 1200 with aero bars). Last time he was on it. I was on my old 520 which I bought from the Gary.

Anyway.... we hit the long flat stretch where last year I just about ruptured a testicle trying to hang on his wheel. Ofcourse, Darren starts hammering right about then. I figured, oh crap, here we go again!!!! I hopped on his tail and found that this time around I could sit there without even breathing hard, so then I figure what the hell, lets go and I went by him pretty damn efforlessly. Well, no, it wasn't effortless. I couldn't believe I dropped him in the same spot he dropped me last year.

I think part of it is that I'm stronger, part of it is the bike is definitely quicker when I am on the aero bars. I think another factor is that when you lay down on those bars, you really don't make a good puller. I think this is why I had such a hard time hanging with him when he was on my bike.

Very interesting to see all your comments. As a commuter, with a fairly long one-way trip, I woudn't even consider drafting because I see my commute more as a casual ride and not a race. I agree, I wouldn't like someone drafting me either if I didn't know their cycling abilities.

I love drafting and don't mind in the least if someone wants to suck my wheel.

It should not be done however without asking first.

In a related matter, this morning I went for a ride with a few guys I work with. Gary is painfully slow. Darren, the last time we went out was strong enough to drop me like a hot potato on climbs and eventually shake me on the flats no matter how shamelessly I drafted him.

I now have a quicker bike (his old trek 1200 with aero bars). Last time he was on it. I was on my old 520 which I bought from the Gary.

Anyway.... we hit the long flat stretch where last year I just about ruptured a testicle trying to hang on his wheel. Ofcourse, Darren starts hammering right about then. I figured, oh crap, here we go again!!!! I hopped on his tail and found that this time around I could sit there without even breathing hard, so then I figure what the hell, lets go and I went by him pretty damn efforlessly. Well, no, it wasn't effortless. I couldn't believe I dropped him in the same spot he dropped me last year.

I think part of it is that I'm stronger, part of it is the bike is definitely quicker when I am on the aero bars. I think another factor is that when you lay down on those bars, you really don't make a good puller. I think this is why I had such a hard time hanging with him when he was on my bike.

Please tell me you weren't drafting your buddy while you were on the aero bars.

If I recall, I was on the hoods when he went by me. I know I was on the aerobars when I went by him, but, I don't recall if I was on the drops or the bars while drafting him. I only drafted him for a few seconds and not very closely, anyhoo. I do agree that a very tight draft on the aerobars is not the smartest thing in the world, but I don't see a problem with it if you give him a few feet and shift a bit off to the side anyway. If he has to slow quickly, you have enough room to get by.

What a pointless 'I'm cooler than you' self serving story.

"I am a great cyclist, bow down..."
Who the eff cares?

I could probably hang with your buddy, but I don't have to go bragging about it on the internets.
I prefer to drop cars, not cyclists. Cyclists are usually, by default, my friends.
I don't care what you are riding, or what you are wearing. If you are out on the roads, commuting, racing, cruising along, hauling a load of laundry or groceries, or just stoned out of your gourd, and you chose to ride a bike to get where you are going, you're alright in my book.

The guy in your story could have just passed nicely and waved.

BTW, if he is such a badass, why did he even stop at the light?

Tell him to get over himself and race cars. That is a challenge.......

Gotta go w/ nova on this one -- who f'n cares? If somebody drafts ME on my commute, so what? I still gotta get where I'm going. Not likely to happen, anyway -- I see less than 8 people on a bike on any given day, maybe 1-2/week COULD draft me, and THEY could PASS me.

That said, I enjoyed the story -- I'd do it if I could hit 30 again.... (Go figure -- could routinely hit 30+ on my old 10-sp. in the 70's, but now, on my MTB, I need a downhill to get above 24, yet I'm faster across town now than I was then!)

I feel left out, I live in a small town with almost no other commuters. I am lucky if I even spot another cyclist at all let alone have someone to draft and pull.

What a pointless 'I'm cooler than you' self serving story.

"I am a great cyclist, bow down..."
Who the eff cares?

I could probably hang with your buddy, but I don't have to go bragging about it on the internets.
I prefer to drop cars, not cyclists. Cyclists are usually, by default, my friends.
I don't care what you are riding, or what you are wearing. If you are out on the roads, commuting, racing, cruising along, hauling a load of laundry or groceries, or just stoned out of your gourd, and you chose to ride a bike to get where you are going, you're alright in my book.

The guy in your story could have just passed nicely and waved.

BTW, if he is such a badass, why did he even stop at the light?

Tell him to get over himself and race cars. That is a challenge.......


Uhm....ok....why do I get the feeling you have had a few beers :lol:

First, I posted this, not him...he only mailed it to 3 friends.

Second, the point is not how bad he is, but how unbad Mr. Fancy-Pants-Know-It-All was after talking down to the flat bar guy at the light and then reacting like a dork to my buddy's drafting.

Lots of guys can go 30+, what is rare is the opportunity to school a know-it-all pantywaist.

Second, the point is not how bad he is, but how unbad Mr. Fancy-Pants-Know-It-All was after talking down to the flat bar guy at the light and then reacting like a dork to my buddy's drafting.

Lots of guys can go 30+, what is rare is the opportunity to school a know-it-all pantywaist.

The point seems to be that you and your friend both developed an instantaneous snotty attitude toward another cyclist based on how he was dressed and the fact that he didn't want your buddy to draft. I mean, look at what you wrote...projecting our feelings of inadequacy just a wee little bit there?

Leave me alone! I don't want you dangerously close to my back wheel, I promise not to get too close to you...

If someone does start drafting me I slow down, tell them politely to leave me alone, to either drop back or overtake and ride on...

guess that's just me :)

... oh and I don't give a rat's ass if someone is faster or slower than me whatever bike or clothes they, or I, choose to ride on/in.

I guess this never comes up along my commute when I'm going 12 mph.... this story is funny, but probably not the way the original writer intends!:roflmao2:

I don't understand drafting. I kind of get the concept, but I'm not clear on the specifics or why it is such a faux pas. is it like standing too close to someone? :eek:

I don't understand drafting. I kind of get the concept, but I'm not clear on the specifics or why it is such a faux pas. is it like standing too close to someone? :eek:

It's like tailgaiting on the freeway.

The point seems to be that you and your friend both developed an instantaneous snotty attitude toward another cyclist based on how he was dressed and the fact that he didn't want your buddy to draft. I mean, look at what you wrote...projecting our feelings of inadequacy just a wee little bit there?

Oh, I am pretty darn inadequate: trust me :) I can self loathe with the best of them. At 5'9 and 170 lbs, I am definitely the slow fat guy on my team.

You have a history of decent comments LBB so I respect you enough to avoid getting personal on this one ;)

From my perspective, it had nothing to do with how he was dressed (I commute in my local team kit every day) [on a side note, I think we on this forum often forget that racers are often commuters too]. Nor was it so much that he did not want my buddy to draft as much as the fact that he demanded to draft my buddy after only a few hundred yards of trying to ditch him. I get that some don't want others drafting them, but he clearly had no problem trying to draft my buddy, so the whole draft/no draft argument does not really apply here.

And yes, I have little patience for cyclists who talk down to the regular moes out there. Especially if they really aren't that fast when it comes down to it. When you do that, you invite riducule, in my book. I know that makes it sound like I care about speed more than I should. But in my eyes, when you talk down to others, you really need to have something in the quiver other than fancy gear. People can tease me all they want about my old bikes and mid range gear, but as soon as I can whip them; their arguments are null.

I guess this never comes up along my commute when I'm going 12 mph.... this story is funny, but probably not the way the original writer intends!:roflmao2:

I don't understand drafting. I kind of get the concept, but I'm not clear on the specifics or why it is such a faux pas. is it like standing too close to someone? :eek:

Some people get all bent out of shape about it, and I don't know why. If they hit you, they're likely going to be the one going down anyway.

If you REALLY want to get the HUGE benefit of drafting me at 15mph (laugh), go right ahead, morons.

Like I said before though, I don't draft people I don't trust, and that includes every Tom, Dick, and Harry I see on my commute.

Oh, I am pretty darn inadequate: trust me :) I can self loathe with the best of them.

You have a history of decent comments LBB so I will avoid getting personal on this one ;)

It had nothing to do with how he was dressed (I commute in team kit every day). Nor was it so much that he did not want my buddy to draft as much as the fact that he demanded to draft my buddy after only a few hundred yards of trying to ditch him. I get that some don't want others drafting them, but he clearly had no problem trying to draft my buddy, so the whole draft/no draft argument does not really apply here.

And yes, I have little patience for cyclists who talk down to the regular moes out there. Especially if they really aren't that fast when it comes down to it. When you do that, you invite riducule, in my book.

+1.

The roadie was being a turd first, for sure, and it wasn't that he was angry about the draft for safety reasons, which is a valid concern. He was mad that the guy behind him wasn't "putting in work."

That's just silly, and the dude deserved to get dropped and taken down a peg or two.

It probably doubles the chance of an accident. If someone is drafting you, it changes how you have to ride. Why should someone deal with that hassle when it makes you less safe as well? You should be able to slow down when you want, etc.

I guess this never comes up along my commute when I'm going 12 mph.... this story is funny, but probably not the way the original writer intends!:roflmao2:

I don't understand drafting. I kind of get the concept, but I'm not clear on the specifics or why it is such a faux pas. is it like standing too close to someone? :eek:

This youtube video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKQ9USiKcDE) explains the concept and some of the potential risks. The video uses the term "slip streaming" rather than drafting but it's the same thing.

Basically you have to be pretty close to the bike in front of you for it to work. Close enough that if the lead bike were to suddenly slow down there's a good chance for a collision. And close enough that the drafting cyclist won't be able to see much directly in front of them other than the lead cyclist.

Given those risks, it's best if the draftee and drafter work as a team. The lead cyclist acts as the eyes and signals road hazards and pace changes to the following cyclist. It's not difficult but ideally both cyclists know how to do it and should cooperate with each other. It also requires some extra vigilance from both cyclists.

Those arguing that there's no reason to care if someone drafts you or not will point out that the draftee is taking on most of the risk since they're the one likely to come out on the bad end of any collision. My argument is that whether I ultimately crash or not, I still don't want somebody bumping into my bike, nor do I necessarily want to take on the added burden of the following cyclists safety if I was just enjoying a peaceful ride home.

Lets say that you were "allowing" someone to draft you, and of course lets assume you wanted to be drafted, what signals do you use to inform of hazards or stops? Do you use left hand only signaling that is normally used to inform of turns and stops? I like drafting the times that I have done it, but it definitely makes me nervous to follow someone close enough to receive aerodynamic benefit.

Lets say that you were "allowing" someone to draft you, and of course lets assume you wanted to be drafted, what signals do you use to inform of hazards or stops? Do you use left hand only signaling that is normally used to inform of turns and stops? I like drafting the times that I have done it, but it definitely makes me nervous to follow someone close enough to receive aerodynamic benefit.

On the rare occasions that I end up working together with another cyclist, I use the same signals I use on group road rides. I will point out upcoming hazards, indicate which way they should move if there is a car or wrong way cyclist ahead, that kind of thing. It is really no extra effort for me as I am used to doing it anyway.

Moreover, if I am allowing someone to draft me, I believe I have a moral responsibility for helping our little "team" avoid hazards. I have been in pacelines where the leader failed to do this with disasterous results. Also, as has been noted, it is unsafe to assume that someone you don't know will do this for you!!!

In my experience, there is a lot of regional variety in exactly what those signals are, but they are usually simple enough for the person behind you to get the point. An example of local signals include a flat palm down wavey signal to indicate upcoming gravel or slippery sections or a pointing movement behind the back to indicate that those following should move/hold one direction or the other.

I usually make the assumption that someone willing and able to jump in and draft me must also be experienced with group riding. I doubt this is often wrong.

This youtube video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKQ9USiKcDE) explains the concept and some of the potential risks. The video uses the term "slip streaming" rather than drafting but it's the same thing.

Basically you have to be pretty close to the bike in front of you for it to work. Close enough that if the lead bike were to suddenly slow down there's a good chance for a collision. And close enough that the drafting cyclist won't be able to see much directly in front of them other than the lead cyclist.

Given those risks, it's best if the draftee and drafter work as a team. The lead cyclist acts as the eyes and signals road hazards and pace changes to the following cyclist. It's not difficult but ideally both cyclists know how to do it and should cooperate with each other. It also requires some extra vigilance from both cyclists.

Those arguing that there's no reason to care if someone drafts you or not will point out that the draftee is taking on most of the risk since they're the one likely to come out on the bad end of any collision. My argument is that whether I ultimately crash or not, I still don't want somebody bumping into my bike, nor do I necessarily want to take on the added burden of the following cyclists safety if I was just enjoying a peaceful ride home.

OK, now I understand. is it really a noticeable difference in effort to draft someone? I guess it must be if people do it. I can honestly say I have never had this happen on my commute!:D