Professional Cycling - Help Me Understand Mark Cavendish

Ok, he is super bad arse sprint man and keeps winning stages. I get that part but why is he an hour behind? It seems he wins every sprint yet he's way behind everyone else. What gives? Did he stop to pick up rubbish on the side of the road and that's what set him back or?

There are these things caused by the collision of tectonic plates, composed of rock and soil, called mountains.

They are an important geographic feature in many regions, notably the region containing the border between France and Spain.

Overall time is not the concern of someone who is trying to attain the Green Sprinters Jersey. In the mountains he will give up massive time gaps, so his overall GC standing will not be high. But in the flat stages he will position himself to win at the line and secure maximum green jersey points.

He probably truly enjoys l'autobus.

Thanks guys, but check this out. It seems the mountain stages have not been *that* much different than anything else. You have a few guys at the lead and then the entire pack behind them. The pack gets the same time, assuming there are no gaps yes? So was Cavendish behind the pack at the mountain stages?

Sorry to seem so dense.

Thanks guys, but check this out. It seems the mountain stages have not been *that* much different than anything else. You have a few guys at the lead and then the entire pack behind them. The pack gets the same time, assuming there are no gaps yes? So was Cavendish behind the pack at the mountain stages?

Sorry to seem so dense.

In the mountains the peloton is broken into smaller groups, with the top GC contenders in the first or second one. The rest of the field gets scattered into several groups behind the GC leaders, with one or two large ones containing the sprinters and anybody else who can't climb or is having a bad day. These are called 'autobus' (bus in French) and usually they arrive before the cutoff time.

Look, for example, at stage 8 results. You'll see the three leaders, then a fairly large group at +1'54", a few riders scattered afterwards, another big group at +14'14", the last group at +23'02" and a few riders after that. Cavendish was on the last group, so only on that ride he lost 23 minutes to the leaders.

In short Cavendish has no desire to waste valuable energy riding any harder than he has to in mountain stages. So if hes well off the back of the main group he doesnt care. He'll save his legs for a flat day and dust the field on the sprint stages...if he can.

So is it safe to say he has no illusions of winning the race but instead only wishes to win stages, yes?

Thanks again

So is it safe to say he has no illusions of winning the race but instead only wishes to win stages, yes?

Thanks again

Very safe to say. Can anyone recall a good sprinter who also won the tour? Lemond wasn't bad, but was definitely not a specialist.

Very safe to say. Can anyone recall a good sprinter who also won the tour? Lemond wasn't bad, but was definitely not a specialist.

Hinault won on the Champs-Elysees, once and a green jersey, in 1979. Merckx won plenty of sprints and three green jerseys, ..... Sean Kelly won 4 green jerseys and a Vuelta

Indurain had a mean sprint that you seldom saw.

Thanks again fellas.

Thanks again fellas.

Glad you're watching and asking questions. I was super busy with work today so only got to watch the last 10k of today's stage. It blows me away how fast those guys are.

Per your original question, a few more stats:

On Stage 7, the first real mountain stage, Cav placed 137th, losing 28 1/2 minutes to the leaders. The next day he placed 113th and lost another 23 minutes.

It's kind of like asking a 100m sprinter to run a hilly 10k.

Look for some of the sprinters to drop out as they head to the Alps. Cav says he wants to finish the tour but it's not that easy. Also, riders will get eliminated because they won't finish a stage within the alloted time.

Very safe to say. Can anyone recall a good sprinter who also won the tour?

Eddy Merckx won ALL the jerseys in 1969. And he won the overall by a whopping margin. And in those days they were probably all doped to the gills (except for Eddy, of course!). That's why King Eddy was the greatest bike racer of all time. In subsequent years, as I recall, he also won multiple jerseys. The man just hated to lose.

One basic tenet in bike racing you need to understand, Mr_Christopher, is that there are basically three skills in this game: 1) climbing, 2) sprinting, and 3) time trialling. You can become very good at any two of them, but unless you are a phenomenon such as Eddy Merckx, you can't be the best at all three because any two of them require opposing characteristics. In order to win a major stage race such as the Tour de France, you need to be either the best climber and the second best time triallist (or better), or the best time triallist and the second or third best climber. The latter is how Indurain and Armstrong won their Tours. And this is why the last few days of this Tour become so important: you have a flat time trial, and then the climb of Ventoux. Will the best time triallist make up enough time to make up for not being the best climber? Armstrong will need to improve on his Stage 1 time trial if he wants to win. Or, he'll need to drop Alberto on the climb. So this is where it will get interesting...

Sprinting counts for nothing in the Tour overall, but it's a good strategy for winning stages and getting lots of publicity, especially when you've got the world's fastest sprinter on your team!

L.

So is it safe to say he has no illusions of winning the race but instead only wishes to win stages, yes?

Thanks again


Winning stages AND the Green Jersey. The Green jersey is worn by the leader of the sprint points and wearing that Jersey after the final day is a sprinters dream.

4 jerseys being sought after.

Yellow - Overall
Green - Sprinters
Polka Dot - King of Mountains
White - Best young rider

Very safe to say. Can anyone recall a good sprinter who also won the tour? Lemond wasn't bad, but was definitely not a specialist.

Even though he never won the TdF, (though he DID win the Tour of Spain), you could add Laurent Jalabert to the list of all-rounders. He won the green sprinters jersey a few times as well as the climbers jersey. "Jaja" could pack a pretty mean sprint!

Eddy Merckx won ALL the jerseys in 1969. And he won the overall by a whopping margin. And in those days they were probably all doped to the gills (except for Eddy, of course!). That's why King Eddy was the greatest bike racer of all time. In subsequent years, as I recall, he also won multiple jerseys. The man just hated to lose.

One basic tenet in bike racing you need to understand, Mr_Christopher, is that there are basically three skills in this game: 1) climbing, 2) sprinting, and 3) time trialling. You can become very good at any two of them, but unless you are a phenomenon such as Eddy Merckx, you can't be the best at all three because any two of them require opposing characteristics. In order to win a major stage race such as the Tour de France, you need to be either the best climber and the second best time triallist (or better), or the best time triallist and the second or third best climber. The latter is how Indurain and Armstrong won their Tours. And this is why the last few days of this Tour become so important: you have a flat time trial, and then the climb of Ventoux. Will the best time triallist make up enough time to make up for not being the best climber? Armstrong will need to improve on his Stage 1 time trial if he wants to win. Or, he'll need to drop Alberto on the climb. So this is where it will get interesting...

Sprinting counts for nothing in the Tour overall, but it's a good strategy for winning stages and getting lots of publicity, especially when you've got the world's fastest sprinter on your team!

L.

Even Eddy conserved energy some of the time. He was not the wildman some see him as. He understood just when to make an effort just as well as anyone today. If one looks at his Giro results a strange thing shows up. Only 2 times did he win multiple Jerseys in the Giro (Yea, for anyone besides Eddy and his idol this only is absurd). But in the TDF he won multiple jersies all but one time (and that his last win). Why? I'll claim that once he had a big enough lead he could afford to 'waste' energy going after stages and mountians in the TDF. Not so in hte 3 Giros where he 'only' won Pink as in all 3 of those Giros he had the Tour coming up.

BTW Eddy and Hinault are the only riders ever to finish the TDF first in Yellow (Caution I meant exactly what I said, nothing more. Lemond in 89 fails on 2 counts).

I'm pretty sure Mr. Armstrong started off as a sprinter early in his career, not certain though.

Glad you're watching and asking questions. I was super busy with work today so only got to watch the last 10k of today's stage. It blows me away how fast those guys are.

Per your original question, a few more stats:

On Stage 7, the first real mountain stage, Cav placed 137th, losing 28 1/2 minutes to the leaders. The next day he placed 113th and lost another 23 minutes.

It's kind of like asking a 100m sprinter to run a hilly 10k.

Look for some of the sprinters to drop out as they head to the Alps. Cav says he wants to finish the tour but it's not that easy. Also, riders will get eliminated because they won't finish a stage within the alloted time.

I know there are newbies on so so expalination of the time cutoff is in order. There is a percentage of the time of the winner, determined by the kind of stage and known at the start. If a rider finishes more than that far behind the stage winner he is eliminated. But if too many riders would be eliminated the judges may extend the time allowed. That is where the Autobus is so important. It finishes as a pack, so all riders in it have the same time. That means either all or none of them are eliminated. So if there are 30-40 riders in hte Autobus they are safe, baring a very late mechanical problem.

Even Eddy conserved energy some of the time. He was not the wildman some see him as. He understood just when to make an effort just as well as anyone today. If one looks at his Giro results a strange thing shows up. Only 2 times did he win multiple Jerseys in the Giro (Yea, for anyone besides Eddy and his idol this only is absurd). But in the TDF he won multiple jersies all but one time (and that his last win). Why? I'll claim that once he had a big enough lead he could afford to 'waste' energy going after stages and mountians in the TDF. Not so in hte 3 Giros where he 'only' won Pink as in all 3 of those Giros he had the Tour coming up.

BTW Eddy and Hinault are the only riders ever to finish the TDF first in Yellow (Caution I meant exactly what I said, nothing more. Lemond in 89 fails on 2 counts).

He won multiple jerseys three times.

What do you really mean by: "BTW Eddy and Hinault are the only riders ever to finish the TDF first in Yellow "?

I'd guess win the final stage while wearing yellow. With the parade that is the last stage in to Paris I don't see that happening again anytime soon.

I'd guess win the final stage while wearing yellow. With the parade that is the last stage in to Paris I don't see that happening again anytime soon.

Close. Crossing teh final finish line before any other rider while wearing yellow. That is a subtle way of saying excluding final stagte time trials. There are at least a few other riders who have won the final stage when they started that stage in yellow, but the crossed the finish line last or next to last.

There are also quite a few who were leading and won the final stage in hte early days before the yellow jersey.

BTW Bernard did it twice and Eddy only once. But of his 5 wins Eddy had only one chance. The other 4 had a final stage TT.

In other words, it wasn't good enough to simply win the TdF; they had to also win in Paris, too.

I think I'd rather be sipping champagne somewhere in the middle of the pack.

Ok, he is super bad arse sprint man and keeps winning stages. I get that part but why is he an hour behind? It seems he wins every sprint yet he's way behind everyone else. What gives? Did he stop to pick up rubbish on the side of the road and that's what set him back or?

Above what other people have said, why would you think he would be leading if you know that everyone in the bunch gets the same time at the finish line on flat stages?