Advocacy & Safety - Dealing with right turn drivers

In all the cases I have had cars make right turns in front of me the situation is somewhat vague. Let me explain.

This mainly occurs on the 45mph 7 or 5 lane suburban roads (center lane is left turn lane) I ride. I stay in the right 3ft zone, which is sometimes marked as bike lane, sometimes not, but with "share the road signs"

We all know about the often complained and frequent accident situation of the car that passes and suddenly/immedately turns right in front of cyclist. In 4 months of commuting I have fortunately not had this occur. This is clearly the drivers fault - this is not what I am referring to.

But what does occur is the pass and then say 15-30sec later the right turn. Here is where the confusion comes up. Some drivers are very aware of me and stop before their turn, but this forces me to pass them on the right in their future path of travel. I do not like to do this because it assumes the driver has stopped because of me, not a different reason. In this case I often instead fully take the lane and stop/slow behind the center or even left side of the car. This sometimes works, but a wave too the driver to continue is sometimes needed.

Sometimes I car will quickly right turn in front of me, but even without slowing down I would not hit them with good clearance to spare. It can 'feel' annoying or dangerous, but is it really?

But I bring this all up because we cyclists are quick to be annoyed at the right turning behavior of car drivers, but in reality it is often a difficult judgement to make for a driver as how to right turn in front of a cyclist with plenty of safe clearance for the cyclist or to stop fully instead causing addtional confusion. It is a hard judgement as how much in front of an average cyclist does one need to be before turning. Yes as cyclists we all know how far we go at 15 or 25mph, but can a car driver really know, do they teach this in driver ed? Is it better to stop and wait 15sec for the cyclist to catch up as pass on your right? Is it better to make a quick turn since you will have cleared the turn by the time the cyclist passes?

Al

Kind of hard to imagine what your'e saying but if a car has overtaken me and has a good clear margin to me and they want to turn right... why would they need to wait for me?

Would the car driver do the same manuever with another car on the right? I don't think so. Judgement has a lot to do with it, and some drivers don't have much.

Kind of hard to imagine what your'e saying but if a car has overtaken me and has a good clear margin to me and they want to turn right... why would they need to wait for me?

They don't need to and shouldn't. But I find that about one out of ten right turners do this. In someways this the inverse problem of getting clipped by a right turner, but instead of being overly agressive (or not seeing the bike) they are being overly careful.

So I have mixed feelings - it is a good that I am encountering these overly careful drivers who actually saw me, but anoying because they create a new hazard/situation to deal with.

Al

Would the car driver do the same manuever with another car on the right? I don't think so. Judgement has a lot to do with it, and some drivers don't have much.

A car driver would never have the situation of annother car on their right unless they were illegally making a right turn from the left lane of two lanes traveling the same direction and crossing a lane of traffic.

Al

Would the car driver do the same manuever with another car on the right? I don't think so. Judgement has a lot to do with it, and some drivers don't have much.

This is correct. This is why in such situations, the cyclist should claim their place in the lane to ensure that they have sufficient space in such situations. Drivers are notoriously poor at judging the amount of space required for overtaking, and in such situations, it is the responsibility of the rest of us to make that judgement for them.

But what does occur is the pass and then say 15-30sec later the right turn. Here is where the confusion comes up. Some drivers are very aware of me and stop before their turn, but this forces me to pass them on the right in their future path of travel. I do not like to do this because it assumes the driver has stopped because of me, not a different reason. In this case I often instead fully take the lane and stop/slow behind the center or even left side of the car. This sometimes works, but a wave too the driver to continue is sometimes needed.

If they're stopping and waiting for you to pass, they should be able to make the turn before you get there. However, they could be stopping for any one of a number of reasons, so never assume it's safe to pass on the kerbside of a vehicle when it's waiting with it's blinker on. Always pass on the other side, the same as if you were driving a car, or wait for them to get out of the way.


Sometimes I car will quickly right turn in front of me, but even without slowing down I would not hit them with good clearance to spare. It can 'feel' annoying or dangerous, but is it really?

As you describe it, no.


But I bring this all up because we cyclists are quick to be annoyed at the right turning behavior of car drivers, but in reality it is often a difficult judgement to make for a driver as how to right turn in front of a cyclist with plenty of safe clearance for the cyclist or to stop fully instead causing addtional confusion. It is a hard judgement as how much in front of an average cyclist does one need to be before turning. Yes as cyclists we all know how far we go at 15 or 25mph, but can a car driver really know, do they teach this in driver ed?

I've so far managed to avoid any right hook collisions, but not through want of motorists trying. Here's my take, for whatever it's worth.

If they pass and turn and I don't have to slow, or only have to slow marginally, I don't sweat it. It's normal traffic.

If they pass and turn and I have time to get around them on the other side, ie. they're in the way, but I can avoid them without slowing down too much, I don't sweat it.

If they pass and turn and I have to slam on the brakes to avoid being pushed into the gutter, I get pissed off and hurl abuse. The thing here is seeing the situation in time to be able to brake to avoid the crush. In my experience, cars don't really change direction very quickly or suddenly - there's usually enough warning if you stay alert for the early signs eg. a blinker.

If I see a car beside me that is slowing down I look for the blinker. It's as though they think they can get to the turn before me, but obviously they can't. I hold my place, and usually move a little further into the lane making it absolutely clear that they can't do what they think they can. I have never had one that didn't back off in this situation.


Is it better to stop and wait 15sec for the cyclist to catch up as pass on your right? Is it better to make a quick turn since you will have cleared the turn by the time the cyclist passes?


15 seconds is a long time in traffic. I don't think anyone would wait that long in that situation. Next time is happens actually count the seconds off. Even 5 seconds is more than enough time to make a turn in most circumstances (ie. if they don't also have to wait for pedestrians to cross). I would hope that with that much clearance that they'd make the turn. Sitting in the lane for that length of time on a 45mph road is a hazard to everyone in the vicinity, including themselves.

Here is what I do to prevent the right hook manuever that drivers love to try to do when at an intersection with a cyclist.

First let me say there are no marked bike lanes in my community, yet. There are some roads that have shoulders with no parking that are designated as the bike lanes. At the busy cross streets these roads intersect with the shoulder often ends, but well in advance so the cyclist knows what to expect.

The right hook is usually a problem at controlled intersections, whether is is controlled with a traffic light or a 4-way stop sign. Which means it happens on the busier streets.

If I am approaching an intersection where I am not turning left or right & I am able to ride through it on a green light, I move into the center of the lane before i get to the intersection. This way vehicles that are turning right can not speed up to get around me & do the right hook manuver which would cause them to either hit me or me to hit them.

At an intersection where I have to stop, at a red light or a stop sign I stop in the middle of the lane to prevent drivers from pulling up next to me on my left side to make a right hand turn. Also when I stop behind a vehicle I am in the middle laner as well.

This is called defensive riding. I do it all the time & it has seved my neck on more then one occasion. And I have had only one occurance where I got into an argument with a driver over it because she thought I was slowing her down on her commute. I Really didn't care I not out there to make sure she gets to her destination faster, I'm out there riding for my own benefit, which means doing it safely.

N_C is describing good Effective Cycling practice. Position yourself in a destination-appropriate fashion, such that if you are going straight, you want to encourage right-turning motorists to be to your RIGHT, rather than to your left.

Motorists who pass cyclists and then wait alongside them need to be educated that the correct maneuver would have been to slow and merge to the right, BEHIND the cyclist, thereby avoiding any confusion or intimidation. If a motorist pulls ahead and then indicates that he/she is waiting for me to pass on the right before completing his/her right turn, I look for the opportunity to tuck in behind or even to the left of the motorist. I am extremely uncomfortable overtaking any traffic on the outside, particularly when that motorist is waiting to turn right!