Pacific Northwest - Got a traffic ticket in Renton tonight

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unixpro
07-15-09, 10:59 PM
Commuting home from work tonight I got stopped and ticketed by one of Renton's finest, Officer S. Tierney. He cited me for failure to ride on the right hand side of the roadway and failure to use hand signals.

I had turned left from Airport onto Rainer, heading south. I had stopped at the intersection of Rainer and 2nd and was proceeding down to the right turn at SW Sunset. Officer Tierney pulled up behind me while I was on Rainer and turned on his lights when I turned onto Sunset.

After pulling me over, the officer asked if I had identification. I told him that I did, but knew that I didn't have to actually provide it. This is actually true, as I was not operating a motor vehicle. I am required to truthfully and completely answer any questions put to me by the officer, but that's it. This answer apparently didn't set well with Officer Tierney, however, as he summarily informed me that I was, in fact, absolutely required to provide identification and that if I didn't immediately comply we would "see where my attitude got me." Rather than fight this, I rummaged through my trunk bag and came up with my ID.

Officer Tierney then went back to his vehicle and wrote me up. During this time, another officer came up and parked. Apparently it takes two Renton cops to insure the compliance of a single bicycle commuter.

When Officer Tierney returned, he informed me that, since I was so conversant with the law, I must have been aware that I was required to ride as close to the right side of the street as possible so as to not impede traffic, make people go around me, or make them honk at me. This last one kind of confused me until I remembered that there was, in fact, a car honking further up Rainer as I was coming down. However, this car was driving parallel to me in the far left hand lane and, rather than honking at me, was honking at a car partially in their lane trying to make a left turn (across three lanes of traffic) into a parking lot. I, in fact, had to slow to allow that car to get into their parking lot. That aside, the RCW (RCW 46.61.770) does not, in fact, require that I ride as close to the right side as possible, but rather that I ride as close to the right side as is safe. Given that this part of Rainer has no shoulder, that the roadway is not in good condition, and that, in my experience, riding in anything but the left half of the lane leads to cars passing unsafely (buzzing me), I choose, for my safety, to take the lane.

Now, the failure to use hand signals is actually true. However, my failure to use those hand signals is because the road conditions there are poor and I don't want to remove my hands from the handlebars. In order to not impede traffic unduly, I travel at a speed of 13-15 MPH on this section of the road. The road is bumpy and has lots of ruts in it, so removing my hands from the bars at this speed isn't a very good idea. Further, I am in a dedicated right-turn lane for the turn onto Sunset and move immediately to the dedicated left turn lane for the turn onto Renton center Way. Officer Tierney contended that I failed to properly yield while making this turn (although he did not cite me for this), but that's not true. The only potential traffic coming at me is from northbound Rainer, turning left onto Sunset. I know these lights since I ride it every day and I know that when I made this turn, there was no possibility of any oncoming traffic as the light was green for cars going south on Rainer. Nevertheless, I did, as I always do, looked left to make sure that the lanes were clear before I crossed. The car in front of me did exactly the same thing, but the way. No, I did not signal my turns, but I felt that removing my hands from the bars was unsafe, given the road conditions, and that there was no danger of my lane movement being misinterpreted by other drivers, as they were doing exactly the same thing.

When we were finished, I asked Officer Tierney if he had a dash camera in his car. He again became very offensive, even abusive, and asked me if I saw any dash camera. He asked that three or four times, in fact, every time becoming more aggressive in his demeanor. Given that I had not approached his vehicle in any way, and that I could not reasonably know what a dash camera might look like, I felt his attitude to be excessively offensive. I again decided to let the matter drop without further comment. My final question to him was if his name and ID information were on the ticket. He replied, again in a rather offensive tone, that it was all there and he'd be happy to see me in court.

I think I'm going to fight this one. I know for certain that he's wrong about my taking the lane, and I feel I have a strong argument for not using hand signals. Officer Tierney seems to have a serious dislike for cyclists and is deficient in his knowledge of the RCW as it applies to bicycles. I've commuted this route through Renton almost every day since I started working in Redmond last October and I've never had any issues. The people in Renton, including the officers I've encountered, have always been if not completely supportive at least tolerant and understanding.


scozim
07-15-09, 11:08 PM
Good luck on fighting it. Any wagers on whether Officer Tierney actually decides to show up in court?

milnerpt
07-15-09, 11:09 PM
Hopefully, there IS a in-dash camera. I dont necessarily trust a cops 'word' in a court of law... and what they say is given more weight than one of us.

It seems to me that almost all instances of bike tickets, especially yours, its very subjective, and comes down to what one considers within reason such as staying to the right to not hold up traffic - subjective if its 'held up' - staying to the right within safety reasons -some of the shoulders we are expected to ride on have debris and grates, as well as signalling with safety in mind.

what gets me upset the most, is that hopefully when you get this thrown out, good ol' officer Tierney will likely not learn anything further regarding proper bike use, and even be on the prowl to be a bigger tool than ever!

good luck.


thompsonpost
07-15-09, 11:18 PM
:roflmao2:

SeattleShaun
07-16-09, 12:04 AM
Depending on how far you wish to take this, you might write out a complaint and submit it to the Renton Chief of Police and cc the Mayor. Officer Tierney clearly needs to learn what the law is - unfortunately, like many folks ignorant of the actual law, he seems to feel justified in making up his own - and then covering up for his ignorance by being a belligerent jerk.

You might also post this over on the Cascade message boards at www.cascade.org (http://www.cascade.org)

A call to John Duggan or one of the other local cycling attorneys might be fruitful as well. You can find contact info here: http://www.cascade.org/Community/legal.cfm

If you go to court, be prepared for this cop to lie through his teeth - if he shows up.

If you need visual aids for your day in court, go here: http://www.bikexprt.com/streetsmarts/index.htm

Note that Street Smarts is used as the bicycling manual for a number of state DOTs.

You might also check this thread regarding a similar case in Idaho: http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=538468&highlight=Dwight+tovey

Good luck!

j-law
07-16-09, 10:01 AM
You got tagged with the ******* tax when you didn't provide ID (Not this doens't make it right).

alpinist
07-16-09, 12:01 PM
I'm not positive about this, but you do have to provide ID if you are pulled over for vehicle infractions. All vehicle laws in Washington apply to bikes and cars or whatever you are operating on the roads, and if you are pulled over operating any vehicle on the road, you get treated the same no matter what kind of vehicle you are operating.

I keep a copy of the Washinton State vehicle laws regarding bikes in my wedge bag for uninformed cops (and drivers and cyclists). Never had to use it, though.

alpinist
07-16-09, 12:06 PM
Just obey the laws, and this won't happen.

And don't get in the cops face after it happens, and it won't snowball.

Another looser victim cyclist.

thompsonpost
07-16-09, 12:27 PM
I'm not positive about this, but you do have to provide ID if you are pulled over for vehicle infractions. All vehicle laws in Washington apply to bikes and cars or whatever you are operating on the roads, and if you are pulled over operating any vehicle on the road, you get treated the same no matter what kind of vehicle you are operating.

I keep a copy of the Washinton State vehicle laws regarding bikes in my wedge bag for uninformed cops (and drivers and cyclists). Never had to use it, though.

If you head down to the Muni building on 4th in Seattle, you can get those laws printed on the back side of a way cool bike lane map of Seattle proper, north and south of downtown, for a buck or so or maybe free. I had a couple when I was still living in Seattle.

bizzz111
07-16-09, 12:41 PM
Just obey the laws, and this won't happen.

And don't get in the cops face after it happens, and it won't snowball.

Another looser victim cyclist.

Sounds to me like he was obeying the law. And since when did standing up for your rights = "getting in the cop's face"? It's the cops who have an attitude problem if they get pissed because someone quotes a law to them. Or are we supposed to just let them roll over us all the time because they can?

I'm amazed at the wide latitude people allow police when it's the police who are the ones out of line.

unixpro
07-16-09, 01:49 PM
Cyclists are not required to have any kind of license before riding, so there can be no requirement that you provide such a license when stopped. A drivers license is actually evidence that you have passed the requirements to operate a *motor* vehicle. Consider that some people do not have drivers licenses. These include the car free, people who have had their licenses revoked, and individuals less than the minimum age for a drivers license. These people are still allowed to ride a bicycle on the stiy streets.

I didn't "get in the cops face." I did make sure that he understood I knew my rights, but I backed off when he flew off the handle. I didn't argue and didn't raise my voice. I requested reasonable information from him and let him go into orbit. The cop was only right about one of the issues he raised, both formally and informally, and I admit that. However, the cop did not treat me with respect and I did not see any reason to treat him with any. I let him behave like the child he obviously is and moved on. I'll take it up with the judge.

ngateguy
07-16-09, 02:16 PM
Sounds to me like he was obeying the law. And since when did standing up for your rights = "getting in the cop's face"? It's the cops who have an attitude problem if they get pissed because someone quotes a law to them. Or are we supposed to just let them roll over us all the time because they can?

I'm amazed at the wide latitude people allow police when it's the police who are the ones out of line.

Its really not about getting in his face or obeying the law. But it is always good to just be polite and do what the cop asks and you might get off with just a warning. If you get a ticket you can always fight it in court, where this kind of thing is supposed to happen. By arguing with the cop it just makes matters worse ticks them off and who knows what kind of ticket you get.

Showing your ID may not be required, but the police do have the right to haul you off to verify who you are if an infraction has taken place.

Sometimes it is better to be polite than right!

Stray8
07-16-09, 02:28 PM
I don't know. Remember that cop who wouldn't let the NFL player see his dying mother-in-law (Stopped and detained him in the hospital parking lot)? He had to retire/resign in the face of the public outrage as it was all captured on his dashcam.

There is no reason to be unnecessarily obnoxious when being stopped by the police, but OP seemed to be perfectly within his rights. No doubt if he can explain the situation calmly and credibly to the judge, he stands a pretty good chance of having the ticket dismissed and being vindicated.


.

smurf hunter
07-16-09, 03:51 PM
This feeling is beyond frustrating. I've probably been cited $200 or more worth of fines in the past 5 years. Just showing up to court can halve the fines, but I've always had to pay at least the "court costs", even on the iffy cases.

DiabloScott
07-16-09, 03:54 PM
You are required to identify yourself to a police officer who stops you for a reasonable cause, doesn't HAVE to be a driver's license but they'll probably call it in and get your DL number anyway if you have one. There's really no reason not to show it (or a copy).

You can beat a traffic ticket in court if you have a valid story but most of the people who go there are hoping the cop doesn't show up, they don't have any good excuses, they listened to stupid advice they found on the internet, and they don't know how to handle themselves in front of a judge. Go sit in on traffic court a couple times before hand and see how it's done and your odds will be much better. The judge almost certainly will know the law regarding bikes and you won't gain any points by quoting it to him but you might say "I'm familiar with the vehicle code as it applies to bicycling and I contend that I did not violate it."

This is what will happen: Judge asks cop to tell his story. Judge asks you to tell your side. You may present witnesses. You may ask the cop some questions (he probably won't be allowed to ask you questions but the judge can).

Hammer on these points:
1. "I am a safe and courteous and responsible rider and I was being safe and courteous and responsible in this instance."
2. "There was no other traffic in my lane, I WAS the traffic and taking the lane was safe and legal"
3. "The road surface was poor and it would have been unsafe to remove my hands from the bars and there was no one to see me signal anyway."

4. Only if pressed as to why the officer gave you a ticket anyway, say "I don't mean any disrespect to Officer Tierney but my perception is that he just doesn't like bike riders."

The judge can rule right there or he can take it under consideration. If he thinks you're right but doesn't want to rule against the cop in open court he can sit on it for a couple weeks, letting the time limit expire and you get a not-guilty by default ruling. Good luck. Remember that your objective is to get the ticket over-ruled, not to teach the cop a lesson or make him look stupid.

alpinist
07-16-09, 05:08 PM
You sure told that cop.

Now get in there, and tell that judge.

You know your rights, you tell them what they are.

Don't let them tell you what to do.

I have a better idea - show the judge your OP. He'll have everything he needs right there, I'm sure of it.

BengeBoy
07-16-09, 07:27 PM
Too bad about the ticket; thanks for posting the details here. I will be interested to see how this turns out - please keep us posted.

thompsonpost
07-17-09, 08:01 AM
You sure told that cop.

Now get in there, and tell that judge.

You know your rights, you tell them what they are.

Don't let them tell you what to do.

I have a better idea - show the judge your OP. He'll have everything he needs right there, I'm sure of it.

Odd how cops give tickets to people who aren't doing anything at all. :rolleyes:

alpinist
07-17-09, 10:56 AM
Odd how cops give tickets to people who aren't doing anything at all. :rolleyes:

Amazing, isn't it? What's even more astounding is how often judges are willing to back them up on it. :notamused:

thompsonpost
07-17-09, 11:07 AM
Amazing, isn't it? What's even more astounding is how often judges are willing to back them up on it. :notamused:

Absolutely astounding.

moleman76
07-18-09, 02:47 AM
Here's a link to a brochure which summarizes Washington's laws:
http://www.wtsc.wa.gov/programs/walk_bike/Bicycle%20Laws%20Brochure.text2.pdf
note the editor's comment (apparently not law here) about keeping hands on handlebars and not signalling, if it's not safe to have a hand off of the bars.
Might be some other useful information you could present in court there, too.

Tourmalet
07-19-09, 01:07 AM
I sometimes ride in that area. What the OP said is absolutely true. Riding on the far right hand side on Rainier is extremely dangerous. Rainier is a busy arterial road, and also that area isn't the nicest part of town. It is full of old POS cars beind driven by people who look as if they have no insurance or even a license. I've been buzzed on Rainier in Renton more often than anywhere else. Lots of drivers down there seem to not give us any space, none at all. They stay in the lane at full speed and pass within inches. And yes the road surface is very very cracked and uneven. It shook the crap out of me and my stiff Al frame. I remember having to get out of the aero bars and grab the drops it was that bad. Forget about signaling and riding one handed while taking a corner.


Yeah I would probably give the cop the same attitude and go on about my rights. And it would be just as stupid. ;) Like it or not, they have the power to make your life very very miserable.

East Hill
07-19-09, 09:17 AM
After looking at your line of travel on Google maps, I am really at a loss as to why a police officer would give you a ticket in the first place.

Why exactly did he pull you over in the first place? Was he following you on Airport? I too have been on that stretch, and it's a nasty place. There is not enough room for a cyclist and an automobile to fit in the same lane, so he can't cite you for 'impeding' traffic, and he can't cite you for 'not making people honk at you'. He could cite you for 'not using hand signals', but riding a bicycle (which necessarily uses hand signals requiring several seconds of one handed riding to do properly) and driving a car (which uses electronic signals requiring a simple flick of a switch to operate) are not the same thing. In fact, my car's turn indicators can be activated without even requiring my hands to be removed from the steering wheel.

Your 'attitude' may have not been the best, but on the other hand, I would be a bit indignant myself at being pulled over :lol: .

Just because I have a driver's license doesn't mean that I will have it on me when I am riding my bicycle!

East Hill

Butcher
07-19-09, 05:15 PM
According to the OP the police asked if he had any identification, not a drivers license, or any crap, just a piece of ID. You get what you asked for. You gave the police an attitude and you got his attitude back. Even though you win in court, just the frustation and time you spend dealing with this should change the way you deal with people. I am certain he would have let you off [but I was not there so maybe he would not have]. As I get older I realize that you can get out of more trouble by being kind and polite than being a jerk. You may be correct in the entire incident but try it next time with a little kinder approach and see if you walk [or ride] away without a ticket. It works for me all the time.

zippyh
07-20-09, 08:56 AM
A friend of my wife's got a ticket for running the light on Perimeter Rd at the south end of the airport a few weeks ago. He was wondering why he got so lucky since he was behind a small group of other riders who blew through it and weren't ticketed.

thompsonpost
07-20-09, 09:11 AM
A friend of my wife's got a ticket for running the light on Perimeter Rd at the south end of the airport a few weeks ago. He was wondering why he got so lucky since he was behind a small group of other riders who blew through it and weren't ticketed.

SeaTac police have those weird X-Ray glasses. Not quite as functional as the REAL X-Ray glasses we had as kids.

CCrew
07-20-09, 09:17 AM
.ago. He was wondering why he got so lucky since he was behind a small group of other riders who blew through it and weren't ticketed.

Ever go fishing?

Did you catch all the fish? Bet not...

ngateguy
07-20-09, 12:17 PM
A friend of my wife's got a ticket for running the light on Perimeter Rd at the south end of the airport a few weeks ago. He was wondering why he got so lucky since he was behind a small group of other riders who blew through it and weren't ticketed.

Thats easy he was the last of the pack, therefore the easist to catch.