"The 33"-Road Bike Racing - The weight lifting thread

While controversial, perhaps, it's pretty clear it does something more for me than just to help maintain my incredibly youthful figure. I'm interested in youse guys with coaches and what protocols they recommend. In past years I typically followed a Friel-esque program that was

AA-easy sets of 15-20
MS- max weight sets of 6
PE- explosive movements sets of 10-12
ME-high rep in control sets of 60

I've never been a PE fan. I just don't like the movement and fear injury.

This past season I did something different. I went all high reps adding 20 each month. So basically it was

AA-September
ME1- 20 reps
ME2- 40 reps
ME3- 60 reps
ME4- 80 reps
ME5- 100 reps

yep went all the way to 100 reps. This race season though I've moved back to 20 reps and use it as cross training once or twice a week.

So now I'm wondering about what to do this off season. It's almost here, you know? Possibly stay in the 20-40 range and pile some more weight on? So again, what do different coaches suggest? What are the track and sprinter guys doing? How about TT guys?

And, ummm, try and save the pissing contest do it all on the bike stuff for the training thread, ok? I made some pretty significant gains this past winter focusing on 3x20s and high end weight work, and I'd like to up my game again this winter.

I didn't have a coach for it, but I based my weight program a decade (or more) ago on a study I read.

I started off with 30 reps/3 sets in Sept/Oct and worked down to 5 reps/3 sets by February. No lifting during the season.

Now you've gone and done it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSNvEpH2L1o

lightweight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSNvEpH2L1o

lightweight.

Wrong forum.

Enjoy (http://www.bikeforums.net/forumdisplay.php?f=41&order=desc).

Wrong forum.

Enjoy (http://forum.bodybuilding.com/).

fixed the link for you.

Good thread. I am interested because I want to start incorporating some more weights into my training.

fixed the link for you.

Good thread. I am interested because i want to start incorporating some more weights into my training.

+1

lightweight.

I think that's the idea.

Track guys lift way different than roadies. I believe I read about a girl on the Australian national track team that can one leg squat at least 2x her body weight. That's crazy. But they also don't have 85 mile races to survive.
I don't think I helped any with this post, sorry.

While controversial, perhaps, it's pretty clear it does something more for me than just to help maintain my incredibly youthful figure.

you forgot the part about stunting your growth, and shrinking your testes. :innocent:

I am not sold on the utility of gym work for roadies personally unless you're lifting year round.

In '10 (my 3rd year racing) I intend to incorporate Weights + Base in the off season. Definitely interested in Weight programs instead of just winging it...

While controversial, perhaps, it's pretty clear it does something more for me than just to help maintain my incredibly youthful figure. I'm interested in youse guys with coaches and what protocols they recommend. In past years I typically followed a Friel-esque program that was

AA-easy sets of 15-20
MS- max weight sets of 6
PE- explosive movements sets of 10-12
ME-high rep in control sets of 60

I've never been a PE fan. I just don't like the movement and fear injury.

This past season I did something different. I went all high reps adding 20 each month. So basically it was

AA-September
ME1- 20 reps
ME2- 40 reps
ME3- 60 reps
ME4- 80 reps
ME5- 100 reps

yep went all the way to 100 reps. This race season though I've moved back to 20 reps and use it as cross training once or twice a week.

So now I'm wondering about what to do this off season. It's almost here, you know? Possibly stay in the 20-40 range and pile some more weight on? So again, what do different coaches suggest? What are the track and sprinter guys doing? How about TT guys?

And, ummm, try and save the pissing contest do it all on the bike stuff for the training thread, ok? I made some pretty significant gains this past winter focusing on 3x20s and high end weight work, and I'd like to up my game again this winter.

G, I don't really understand your plan listed above. You don't incorporate any MS or PE work?

Does anyone incorporate upper body work into their routines?

This year season I did all ME work. It was all lower body and core (kettle bell swings and ab work).

Did you notice a significant difference between periodizing and strictly ME? Last winter was my first foray into true off-season training and only ever did sets of 30 (but also out of god-given fear of reinjuring my knees)

I would contend that by increasing the reps, and thus intensity, each month I was periodizing.
To answer your question though it's hard to say. I'm simply stronger this year, than the year before. Is that because I did all ME work? I doubt it.

Gary,

I think that you may have hit on a really successful lifting plan/schedule/periodization for YOU

that said, I'd not change much as it seemed like you found a pretty nice sweetspot for getting the strength training to work for your bike racing.

Obviously you are a kick-ass racer and have found something good here... again for YOU and I cant really see changing up the plan all that much.

What exercises were you focusing on (I know you mentioned KB swings)?

thanks,
Leo

So we have to lift weights too? I stopped doing that - to an extent.

I do a lot of bodyweight / core / plyo stuff, but very little iron pumping. Beyond general fitness/ego, I think the core stuff is definitely beneficial for cycling, but the plyo is my little secret - I can really tell the difference in my ability to jump/sprint when I have or haven't been doing it.

What exercises were you focusing on (I know you mentioned KB swings)?

thanks,
Leo

Squats
Reverse Lunges (later replaced by step ups)
Leg Extensions
Leg Curls
Power Cleans
Kettlebell swings
Crunches
Ab Roller
And a swinging ab twist done holding plates and kind of windmilling your arms and torso

more recently I started doing some pull ups and dips

my whole routine takes about an hour, sometimes up to 90 minutes once I get to the real high reps. A minute rest between sets. And the whole shebang is sandwiched between one hour roller sessions.

I used to lift weights, but I don't anymore. I still have way too much useless (in terms of cycling) upper body mass.

I can lift all I want and I won't gain weight. I used to lift three times a week, while I was racing. Now that I am old I can't do that, but being old I need to do some weight bearing exercise to encourage bone growth and need to work on maintaining what strength I have. So I lift once a week, twice a week in winter and spring.

I do the usual leg work, plus calf raises. Core work on machines and using body weight. I do upper body work too. A full workout takes about an hour and a half but I can do most of it in an hour if time is limited.

For me, if I go a few months without lifting I start feeling weak and I will start getting injured doing yard work.

While controversial, perhaps, it's pretty clear it does something more for me than just to help maintain my incredibly youthful figure. I'm interested in youse guys with coaches and what protocols they recommend. In past years I typically followed a Friel-esque program that was

AA-easy sets of 15-20
MS- max weight sets of 6
PE- explosive movements sets of 10-12
ME-high rep in control sets of 60

I've never been a PE fan. I just don't like the movement and fear injury.

This past season I did something different. I went all high reps adding 20 each month. So basically it was

AA-September
ME1- 20 reps
ME2- 40 reps
ME3- 60 reps
ME4- 80 reps
ME5- 100 reps

yep went all the way to 100 reps. This race season though I've moved back to 20 reps and use it as cross training once or twice a week.

So now I'm wondering about what to do this off season. It's almost here, you know? Possibly stay in the 20-40 range and pile some more weight on? So again, what do different coaches suggest? What are the track and sprinter guys doing? How about TT guys?

And, ummm, try and save the pissing contest do it all on the bike stuff for the training thread, ok? I made some pretty significant gains this past winter focusing on 3x20s and high end weight work, and I'd like to up my game again this winter.

I've been lifting for 15 years for strength, but never with the intent of improving cycling, running, or any other speed/endurance sport. My question for you is why 100 reps? What's the point? I doubt you really have enough resistance at 100 reps to make it worthwhile anyway. Why not do 4-5 sets of 15-20 reps and then every 4th week drop the weight down 20% and go to failure on each set?

High reps is a pretty standard protocol to develop muscle endurance.

I've been lifting for 15 years for strength, but never with the intent of improving cycling, running, or any other speed/endurance sport. My question for you is why 100 reps? What's the point? I doubt you really have enough resistance at 100 reps to make it worthwhile anyway. Why not do 4-5 sets of 15-20 reps and then every 4th week drop the weight down 20% and go to failure on each set?
+100. Cycling is not weight training. If you can do 100 reps the first 80 are just getting you winded but the resistance isn't high enough to cause muscular adaptation. I think you'd be much better served doing sets of 15-20 reps with a very short rest period....no more than 30 seconds.

I am old school I guess. I do deadlifts, barbell rows, stiff leg deadlifts, pushups, and pullups.

Richard

Your results may vary, basic idea is big weight, low reps.
http://www.endurancenation.us/blog/2007/strength-training-building-a-bigger-engine/

+100. Cycling is not weight training. If you can do 100 reps the first 80 are just getting you winded but the resistance isn't high enough to cause muscular adaptation. I think you'd be much better served doing sets of 15-20 reps with a very short rest period....no more than 30 seconds.

That's the point - to learn to cope with fatigue. I guess if you only consider changes in muscle fiber size to be adaptation then okay but this type of exercise trains your body to be more efficient in the recruitment of motor units.

Can you clarify what you're endorsing?

That's the point - to learn to cope with fatigue. I guess if you only consider changes in muscle fiber size to be adaptation then okay but this type of exercise trains your body to be more efficient in the recruitment of motor units.
I get the point. I still say 5 sets of 20 with 20 seconds rest will be much effective than 1 set of 100. Otherwise the first 60-80 will be all cardio and the last 20-40 won't stress your legs much because you'll be too winded to push enough to cause stress. Just try the 5x20 once.

Hmm 5x20 - 3 cycles hmmm thought bubble

**** i have a hard enough time with 2x20's now i have to do 5?

**** i have a hard enough time with 2x20's now i have to do 5?
weights, not bike intervals.

That's the point - to learn to cope with fatigue. I guess if you only consider changes in muscle fiber size to be adaptation then okay but this type of exercise trains your body to be more efficient in the recruitment of motor units.

If you're trying to learn how to cope with fatigue, then go ride. If you want your muscles to get stronger, then that's what lifting is going to do for you. Doing 100 reps I guarantee isnt doing anything except burning calories. I've read a lot of material on the subject and they all basically say if you're doing too many reps, you're not increasing your muscular capacity.

ummm, ok. considering I've done it for years, and quite a few coaches including the popular Friel recommend high rep, I'd temper your guarantees with 'IMO.'

Gary, I have a question for you.

I've dealt with a ton of lower back issues since I started riding. I've been doing some core work, but it's not enough.

Over the fall, I want to start lifting to strengthen my back and core.

What kind of lifts should I do?

I can probably get some football/lacrosse friends to show me how to do them if needed.

Without knowing what your back issues are, or what a doctor would say, it would be unskillful of me to say what you should do. I tend towards compound movements. Aside from squats, step ups and the like, I mix in deadlifts, power cleans, pull ups, presses, kettle bell swings, ab rollers, crunches, twists, and a bunch of swiss ball work. A swiss ball might be a decent place for you to start. They're cheap and there a ton of websites that show proper form.

Without knowing what your back issues are, or what a doctor would say, it would be unskillful of me to say what you should do. I tend towards compound movements. Aside from squats, step ups and the like, I mix in deadlifts, power cleans, pull ups, presses, kettle bell swings, ab rollers, crunches, twists, and a bunch of swiss ball work. A swiss ball might be a decent place for you to start. They're cheap and there a ton of websites that show proper form.

All I'm asking for is lifts that target the lower back.

Hip bone is connected to the thigh bone...

So who doesn't think that there is any cycling specific advantage to lifting weights? In lieu of the the 3-5 hours I might spend pushing teh irons more time on the bike? More rest? Are there strength exercises that one could/should do on the bike instead?

So who doesn't think that there is any cycling specific advantage to lifting weights? In lieu of the the 3-5 hours I might spend pushing teh irons more time on the bike? More rest? Are there strength exercises that one could/should do on the bike instead?

what types of races are you winning - flat/breakaway/sprint stuff, or hilly/climbing/breakaway stuff? flat sprint stuff yes, extended climbing doubtful.
I personally think weighted lunges are one of the best lifting excersizes that add strength and cardio at same time. That being said, they WILL agravate the phark out of your hernia until it's fixed.

Not a hernia....a hip flexor of groin pull/strain/tear. A hernia was ruled out last season when it occurred. I'm actually a pretty exceptional climber. The problem is around here that there are a few guys who are far and away some of the best masters climbers in the country. So I can't beat them at their game so I stick to other kinds of races.

http://www.bicycling.com/article/0,6610,s-4-22-18250-1,00.html

Click the links inside.

Neat. Though for the time being at least I'm going to skip anything that isn't specifically on the bike (will do some abs). Lunges and those swing things have to be out. Riding doesn't aggravate it at all.

I would focus a bit on the shoulder, just to help stabilize that area in the event of a crash.

I read about something like that eons ago, I think in the mid 80s. Being really paranoid about breaking my collarbone, I've been doing various dumbbell exercises ever since. Plus I was a weakling so I figured it couldn't hurt.

I ended up at a point where I could military press 160-180 lbs, and I'm not a really "strong" guy. I do a lot of 45 pound dumbbell presses, 25 pound other exercises (flys and such), and reasonably heavy rows (100-150 lbs). I stopped crashing regularly about 10 years after I started racing, and until last month, I never injured a shoulder other than to get massive road rash on them.

I mention all this because I've been going to PT for my damaged shoulder. Everyone, and I mean everyone - every doctor that checked me that night, every EMT, then my regular doctor, then the bone doc, then the three PTs I've worked with, kept asking me over and over if I'd had an MRI done or at least x-rays. Based on my other injuries, scrapes, gouges, they simply cannot believe I didn't break or dislocate my shoulder.

Although I figure I was lucky in that crash, I don't think it's just that. I mentioned my paranoia surrounding my shoulder area, and that for 25 years or so I've been doing shoulder exercises specifically to build muscle around my shoulder area, with the goal to prevent injury in case of a crash. The PT, who was manipulating my shoulder, was surprised at my relatively low levels of injury and very quick recovery (all relative I suppose - doing 3 pound flys and thinking it's awesome is kind of sad). She said that my theory was interesting, but she couldn't commit to saying that it actually helped.

But if it did, heck, it's worth it. It may just be a convenient myth (I'd be good at making up new myths), but I'm just sayin'.

cdr

For strength, the enduro Australian track dudes do low cadence/ big gear seated climbs in lieu of a heavier weight regime.

I'm in the most lifting is useless, or even detrimental, camp myself. Core work is great, correcting imbalances is probably a good idea, but just building leg strength is a waste of time. The amount of force we exert every pedal stroke is exceptionally low. Maybe if you just want to win sprints it may be worth it to lift a little bit, but it sure as hell isn't going to help you anywhere else.

The other reason I don't lift is that it messes with my training, adding fatigue that isn't doing me any good. So lifting during base is counter productive, since that's when I need to ride the most (high volume).

For strength, the enduro Australian track dudes do low cadence/ big gear seated climbs in lieu of a heavier weight regime.

link?

Are any on you guys into step-ups? The muscle movement is so similar analagous to cycling.

I have explicit memories from early this year of climbing short kickers without downshifting much and having it feel exactly like a short set of step-ups.

I was doing them, and think they're awesome but they certainly contributed to my flare up.