Professional Cycling For the Fans - The Armstrong Effect

Has been profound (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/17/sports/cycling/17cycling.html?ref=sports) for this sport in the US, and arguably, worldwide. This is why the anti-Lance attitude of TdF officials puzzles me so much.

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http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/7739/17852120.jpg (http://img252.imageshack.us/i/17852120.jpg/)

Just read that and posted about it.

Sigh.

Just read that and posted about it.

Sigh.

on your blog? :innocent:

No worries, still got kloden to take the third podium spot. It would of been worse if there was another TTT.

on your blog? :innocent:

:)

Well, addressing your puzzlement, it's because they think he cheated. They take it personally because they feel he got over on them, outsmarted them.

One thing you must admit, winning 7 straight tdf is an outrageous accomplishment, so it's bound to raise suspicion. I can understand that. But I feel that hey, if you can't find anything and if you can't prove anything then you need to leave the man the F alone and enjoy history.

But noooooooo, they can't stand the thought of an American kicking their ass in "their" sport. It's just too bitter a pill for them to swallow. F 'em!!

What they keep forgetting is the man is a Genetic freak its 25% more athlete then every other top athlete thats cheating... so clearly he MUST be cheating..

theres natural talent and then there is a genetic advantage.. he has both.. End of story

One thing you must admit, winning 7 straight tdf is an outrageous accomplishment, so it's bound to raise suspicion.

Especially when you beat others who HAVE been found guilty of doping.

V.

So what are they going to say now? He comes back and has been tested relentlessly. Yet he's still is at the front after a 3 year layoff. Couldn't find drugs then ... can't find them now ... and he remains at the front. Maybe he's just that freakin' good! His performance has immensely impressed me and I think it would be really difficult to dope since he know's he'll be under the microscope. Way to go Lance!

Wow. I'm surprised the anti-Lance pundits haven't jumped on this like a swarm of flies on a steaming pile of dog c**p.

Wow. I'm surprised the anti-Lance pundits haven't jumped on this like a swarm of flies on a steaming pile of dog c**p.

Moving this to Professional Cycling so they can have at it there

Wow. I'm surprised the anti-Lance pundits haven't jumped on this like a swarm of flies on a steaming pile of dog c**p.

Don't worry, they'll be here . . . . with there cynical & desperate points of view.

Armstrong doubles worldwide interest in the tour.

http://alexvalentine.org/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=23279&g2_serialNumber=2

The sponsors should love him...

I think what a lot of people miss is that drugs often just stimulate what can occur in nature. For example, there are some people who are naturally huge, or if you are a scrawny 90 lb weakling, you can get there with steroids. This does not change the fact that some people are very muscular.

Lance, as has been said, is a genetic rarity. If you can't catch him at drugs, instead of assuming he is cheating, you might just assume he is a martian... :rolleyes:

Besides, I have been told many, many times, everything is better in Texas. Perhaps this is the reason. :lol:

The truth is, life is not fair, Lance won the genetic lottery. But, he nearly died from cancer too and that of course says there is a higher possibility of cancer in a future, so he didn't do THAT well genetically, did he?

Versus reported their viewership up 83% this year over last.

Moving this to Professional Cycling so they can have at it there

pcad, botto - welcome to the place they stick the tube when the internet needs an enema.

Don't worry, they'll be here . . . . with there cynical & desperate points of view.

they come at night... mostly.

Pcad,

I don't think the Tour Organizers hate him nearly as much as they would have some of their customers believe. He's awesome for their businesses, both the tour and the paper. Like you pointed out he draws huge interest to the sport. I had a friend that suggested, long before he announced his return, to keep an eye out for his return. He was basing that prediction on looking at nothing but deminished views of the tour over the previous three years. Last year ASO would have actually and seriously considered selling it off. They aren't talking that way now.

They're apparent hate is nothing more than a ruse to help keep the conspiracy whirling and the papers flowing off the back of trucks. I will not be surprised when in two to three years, Lance owns part of the Tour.

Perhaps the Tour people resent how popular Lance is, in some respects he is bigger than the Tour, hence the problem. When I raced, it was common to run into USCF officials that appeared to believe that we bike racers were racing so they could do their "Official thing"....not that they were for us. Maybe the Tour promoters have the same view.

The reason Armstrong is unpopular among many cycling fans outside the US is quite simple imo. People like a winner, but they dislike someone who wins all the time. If Armstrong had lost one or two of the seven Tours, maybe because of bad luck or whatever, I'm pretty sure people would be cheering for him more in his comeback this year.

Doesn't matter who's booing on the side lines. We know ASO is cheering his decision to return!

Well, addressing your puzzlement, it's because they think he cheated. They take it personally because they feel he got over on them, outsmarted them.

One thing you must admit, winning 7 straight tdf is an outrageous accomplishment, so it's bound to raise suspicion. I can understand that. But I feel that hey, if you can't find anything and if you can't prove anything then you need to leave the man the F alone and enjoy history.

But noooooooo, they can't stand the thought of an American kicking their ass in "their" sport. It's just too bitter a pill for them to swallow. F 'em!!

Carl Lewis, Marion Jones, Marc McGuire, Justin Gatlin, Floyd Landis, to name a few. The TdF officials have every right to be suspicious. Does not make them right to acuse without proof, but justified to be suspicious.

This was in response to your comment specifically on Americans "kicking their ass in "their" sport"".
Disclaimer: It's common knowledge that doping is a global issue and not specific to any country.

http://www.wada-ama.org/rtecontent/document/M_Tuan_Sheikh_Ahmad.pdf

pcad is a cervelo rider and armstrong fan does he have hairy legs as well?

edit: lol @ not having proof on pharmstrong, dude's samples are chock full of epo

He either tested positive or not . Which is it?

I think contador is taking something. Why wouldn't you think he is getting over on em.

What Dors said. He was born with it. Otherwise everyone would be doing it.

I think you can take the anti Lance sentiments with a grain of salt unless they come from a 7 time tour winner.

He either tested positive or not . Which is it?

He did test positive, several times actually.

But I don't think that's the issue, other cyclists who were caught or admitted to doping are well loved in France regardless.

What is somewhat suspicious about Lance, to me, is this three year hiatus and the eruption of BIG name positive tests that occurred while he was away. He retires at 33 for no real apparent reason, and the two following years the TdF is rocked by doping scandals among the most prominent riders. And now that the storm has passed he is back? And everyone is clean again?

He did test positive, several times actually.

But I don't think that's the issue, other cyclists who were caught or admitted to doping are well loved in France regardless.

If you are referring to the leaked samples from his 99 tour then you must take that with a grain of salt. Too much suspicion surrounding that. And if you are truly convinced that Lance did something then you must add suspect to every top rider in the peleton.

What is somewhat suspicious about Lance, to me, is this three year hiatus and the eruption of BIG name positive tests that occurred while he was away. He retires at 33 for no real apparent reason, and the two following years the TdF is rocked by doping scandals among the most prominent riders. And now that the storm has passed he is back? And everyone is clean again?

Just wait. The conspiracy is going to get even better over the next 3 years. Next year, Team Nike/Livestrong. then, 2011-2012 LASports(or whatever it's named) will aquire 40% ownership of The Tour from ASO. Meanwhile drugs busts will all but disappear as a result of Lance's clean influence on the sport.:rolleyes: They (ASO/L'Equipe) really would like to keep those viewership numbers that they enjoyed 99-05 and again now. If they think LA can, in any capacity, keep those numbers that high, it'll be worth it to them to give him 40%. Let's face it: It's all about entertainment and the flow of dollars, and has almost nothing to do with the altruistic values of sport that we wish it embodied.

Just wait. The conspiracy is going to get even better over the next 3 years. Next year, Team Nike/Livestrong. then, 2011-2012 LASports(or whatever it's named) will aquire 40% ownership of The Tour from ASO. Meanwhile drugs busts will all but disappear as a result of Lance's clean influence on the sport.:rolleyes: They (ASO/L'Equipe) really would like to keep those viewership numbers that they enjoyed 99-05 and again now. If they think LA can, in any capacity, keep those numbers that high, it'll be worth it to them to give him 40%. Let's face it: It's all about entertainment and the flow of dollars, and has almost nothing to do with the altruistic values of sport that we wish it embodied.

If you want altruistic cycling, you won't find it any better than on a weekend ride with your friends. There isn't a sport in the world that money hasn't screwed up.

If you want altruistic cycling, you won't find it any better than on a weekend ride with your friends. There isn't a sport in the world that money hasn't screwed up.

But even my mates are on the juice! And it's only a race to the cafe.

But even my mates are on the juice! And it's only a race to the cafe.

Well, then that is justified!

What is somewhat suspicious about Lance, to me, is this three year hiatus and the eruption of BIG name positive tests that occurred while he was away. He retires at 33 for no real apparent reason, and the two following years the TdF is rocked by doping scandals among the most prominent riders. And now that the storm has passed he is back? And everyone is clean again?

I remember reading last year an interview with Tyler Hamilton and he mentionned that there is a form of "mafia" in the Tour de France organisation... so you may be on to something here.

If you want altruistic cycling, you won't find it any better than on a weekend ride with your friends. There isn't a sport in the world that money hasn't screwed up.

Darts?

The reason Armstrong is unpopular among many cycling fans outside the US is quite simple imo. People like a winner, but they dislike someone who wins all the time. If Armstrong had lost one or two of the seven Tours, maybe because of bad luck or whatever, I'm pretty sure people would be cheering for him more in his comeback this year.

Funny how many people in the 60s and 70s loved Merckx. My wife is German and reports when she was a teen and preteen all the kids in her village loved Merckx. One should remember that Rudi Altig was active at the time and at the time was also the best German cyclist ever.

Funny how much the TDF hates Armstrong. They hate him so much that they even changed the rules to give him a better chance of picking up a KOM Jersey.

Funny how many people in the 60s and 70s loved Merckx. My wife is German and reports when she was a teen and preteen all the kids in her village loved Merckx. One should remember that Rudi Altig was active at the time and at the time was also the best German cyclist ever.

And all of that for a guys that tested + 4 times. The hypocrasy that is generally exhibited with regard to the more of less universal belief that Eddy is the greatest cyclist of all time and that LA is somehow the cancer of Professional Cycling continues to amaze me.


Funny how much the TDF hates Armstrong. They hate him so much that they even changed the rules to give him a better chance of picking up a KOM Jersey.

:thumb:

The Tour (the organizers ASO) don't hate Lance at all. If fact his return was more or less greeted by them with open arms. They in fact, love the guy. Look what he does for their ratings and subsequent profit potential.

Let's face it folks. ProCycling, Pro Tour, and the UCI are closer to the WWE than the IOC.

I remember reading last year an interview with Tyler Hamilton and he mentionned that there is a form of "mafia" in the Tour de France organisation... so you may be on to something here.

Not sure how much you should listen to anything Mr. Unborn Twin has to say.

Not sure how much you should listen to anything Mr. Unborn Twin has to say.

If the TDF Organization is like any other profit-based organization in the world, including Gov't, then it's the same crap.

So if you test positive you can still ride. I was unaware of that. I thought some guys that tested positive last year were kicked out

I'm a cynic so I really do think anyone will cheat if they think that the weighted expected value of being caught (and its consequences) is outweighed by not being caught (and its subsequent fruits). It doesn't matter if you are Lance, McGuire, or whomever.

Because they can't catch everyone, the geverning bodies try to manipulate the equation by making the consequence of being caught really draconian, but that still doesn't deter someone who figures they wouldn't win without doping.

I think someone like that figures, "No doping, it's guaranteed I don't win. With doping, there's a chance I win and a chance I get caught. But there's also a chance I win and don't get caught." So the worst thing that can happen from doping is the same as without: I don't get the win.

I'm a cynic so I really do think anyone will cheat if they think that the weighted expected value of being caught (and its consequences) is outweighed by not being caught (and its subsequent fruits). It doesn't matter if you are Lance, McGuire, or whomever.

Because they can't catch everyone, the geverning bodies try to manipulate the equation by making the consequence of being caught really draconian, but that still doesn't deter someone who figures they wouldn't win without doping.

I think someone like that figures, "No doping, it's guaranteed I don't win. With doping, there's a chance I win and a chance I get caught. But there's also a chance I win and don't get caught." So the worst thing that can happen from doping is the same as without: I don't get the win.

And they get to keep the money (salary, bonuses, race wins, endorsements may be iffy but so what).

Not everyone liked Merckx. Of course he was popular in Belgium, but people also got irritated becuase he won so much. He was also a very polarizing figure.

All the recent cycling greats were polarizing figures or battling polzarizing figures.

Merckx
Hinault
Lemond (because of Hinault)
Armstrong


Indurain was extremely likeable not polarizing and he won almost all of his stages on time trials.

I'm a cynic so I really do think anyone will cheat if they think that the weighted expected value of being caught (and its consequences) is outweighed by not being caught (and its subsequent fruits). It doesn't matter if you are Lance, McGuire, or whomever.





They, aka Astana, can't get caught. Bruyneel is a dirty mofo. They do their same tricks and the UCI does nothing about it.

They'll never test positive because there is always time to manipulate urine and blood before the testers take samples. The UCI is very complicit in all of this. Allowing certain riders to take a half-hour, even a full hour to go get ready for so called "unannounced" drug testing. The national drug agencies are aware of how corrupt the UCI is. Even this year, after the whole Armstrong showergate scandal, Bruyneel was up to his tricks again, and stalling to get his team a full hour to prepare for their "unannounced" drug test the day of the team time trial.