Bicycle Mechanics - downtube shifters without bosses or braze-ons?

I'd like to build up a touring/commuting bike with downtube shifters, mostly b/c I've heard brake lever shifters can be unreliable in some instances and I don't like bar-end shifters. I'm looking at the surly crosscheck frame but it's got no bosses or braze-ons for the shifters. Can I still use them on this frame?

tim

I'd like to build up a touring/commuting bike with downtube shifters, mostly b/c I've heard brake lever shifters can be unreliable in some instances and I don't like bar-end shifters. I'm looking at the surly crosscheck frame but it's got no bosses or braze-ons for the shifters. Can I still use them on this frame?

tim

I wouldn't think so with anything modern. Shifters that attached to the tubes with compression bands used to be pretty common. Frames were usually built with a small braze-on under the down tube to serve as a stop to keep the bands from sliding down. The cable stops on the Surly might be able to serve the same purpose if you can find some old SunTour shifters and use them in friction mode. I don't know if they'd have enough throw for modern nine or ten speed drivetrains. I also don't know if the cable stops would get in the way of the levers.

You can get a set of clamp on bosses from a good LBS. Shimano makes 9 and 10 speed downtube shifters. Also, intergated shifters/levers are very reliable these days.

I would think you could drill and tap a tiny screw hole on both sides of the downtube; the heads of the screws should keep the clamp from slipping. However, I'd go to STI. While downtube shifters were my preference, they are a pain compaired to STI if you shift a lot. I spent a lot of mony on my old Schwinn Voyager to convert and it was worth every penny.

Al

I've seen the clamp-on bosses, but I was afraid that they wouldn't work without those little stops on the tube. Any chance of geting the braze-on stops installed post-factory? It's a steel frame, so that should make it easier right?

tim

The only thing about STI is that I've heard that they can get fouled up fairly easily. they're not something I want to have to clean very often if I'm on a long trip. but thats just what I've heard. not really sure if there's any validity to it.
Right now I ride a fixed gear so I don't really know what my shifting habits will be.

tim

A good framebuilder will be able to add the correct shifter bosses to a steel frame.

You're exactly right; whether it's a set of cable stops for STI's / bar-ends, or a set of bosses for downtube shifters, if it's a clamp-on, it needs something to keep it from sliding down the tube. My first "10-speed" was a JCPenney import of some cheap Italian bike (Ballila brakes, the notorious Simplex der, etc.). It didn't have anything keeping the clamp-on downtube shifters from slipping down the tube under the tension of the cables. Until my brother pointed out the scratches in the finish the clamp was making as it moved, I had no idea why my shifting kept drifting out of function. When I rebuilt it, and repainted the frame, my brother (a toolmaker) brazed on a little stop, just like its better-built cousins. Just a small triangular (for "style") piece of flat steel maybe 2mm thick, about 8mm across the front (that's where the shifter clamp contacted it. Worked like a charm. So if you're, er, fixed on downtube shifters, either do as the demon says and get actual bosses brazed on, or have a stop brazed on. Actually, have you looked at the underside of the downtube on that Surly frame? Something might already be there.

Waitaminit. I just checked Surly's web site, and one close-up shot of the Cross-check frame (see http://www.surlybikes.com/crosscheck.html ) shows a pair of cable stops brazed on. If you really want downtube shifters, clamp the band on just above those stops, and they'll keep it in place. Right?

damn...I've been looking at that surly site for weeks and I never saw those cable stops. guess that answers my question.
thanks all

tim

My Capo has its original clamp-on Campag. downtube levers and no provision, other than friction against the paint, to keep them from sliding down toward the BB shell. As long as I keep the band tight, I have never had a problem with lever slippage. Having said, that, I note that many frames I have owned had some sort of antislip provision, such as a little braze-on tab or even a pump clamp.

I see no problem with using friction shifters with 8- or 9-speed gears; a few shifter-derailleur combinations may not provide sufficient travel (stem shifters are notorious in this respect, but I hate them anyway), but most will work quite well. Every bike I own has friction shifters with either a 6- or 7-speed freewheel.

You might have a problem in finding a set of clamp-on downtube shifters if you have a non-standard downtube diametre. That being said, my 1980 commuter bike has clamp-on shifters and they haven't moved.

I have an old 5speed with clamp-ons and no stop. Ive never had a problem with the band moving.
My regular commuter does have a braze-on stop. It is in a fancy pattern (some playing card pattern but its not a Colagno frame); this is to avoid stress raisers which can happen when you braze a thick sharp-edged thing onto a thin tube.
I use Campy shifters on my touring bike with no problems so far, but I usually keep a light plastic friction lever in my repair kit, just in case.

One alternative to shifter mounting are Kelly Take-offs, some people like them. See following link: http://www.kellybike.com/2nd_xtra_takeoff.html

You might have a problem in finding a set of clamp-on downtube shifters if you have a non-standard downtube diametre. That being said, my 1980 commuter bike has clamp-on shifters and they haven't moved. Have you looked way down under on the bottom side of the downtube? I bet there's a wee little boss that's keepin' that clamp in place.

The only thing about STI is that I've heard that they can get fouled up fairly easily. they're not something I want to have to clean very often if I'm on a long trip. but thats just what I've heard. not really sure if there's any validity to it.
Right now I ride a fixed gear so I don't really know what my shifting habits will be.

tim

I've heard the same thing, but no one I know in the bike club or at the lbs has had any probleems. You could always carry a set of DT shifters just in case.

Al

Those Kelly Take offs look interesting .are they indexed ?

The current brake/shifter combos are very reliable and make shifting much easier without having to drop a hand from the bars to the downtube. I put 6500 miles on a pair of Shimano 105's and sold them to someone who has been using them for right at a year now. These are 1999 models. I think that is pretty reliable.

Visit www.loosescrews.com for all kinds of retro parts and supplies. I just looked on their site and they have some braze-on shifters available if this is how you decide to go with it.

Those Kelly Take offs look interesting .are they indexed ?

The Take-offs just mount the shifters right next to the brake levers. The Shimano Downtube shifters (Dura Ace) which I use to do the actual shifting control, can be set to either an indexed or friction mode. The shifters are not quite as convenient as STI/Ergo, but still more conveniently located than downtube ones. No brazing is necessary and certainly lot less expensive than the indexed system. Also, if something goes wrong, the compatibility is simpler than indexed controls just use the friction mode. I didn't have any problems with this mounting arrangement.