Foo - What is the law of the oceans?

What types of business are allowed off the coasts of countries? I know there is a 200 mile economic zone that countries are entitled to. What does this mean though?

For example, say I wanted to start a new kind of 'storage' company whereas I would use a ship to drop floating containers out at sea? Essentially I'm only using the ocean for its space and not taking any other resources from it. I'm not fishing, dumping, or affecting anything else in the ocean.

Can anyone point me in the right direction on where I can learn more about the rules and laws governing these bodies of water?

I'd like to form a company that would essentially act in the same manner as the storage company example. It would not be a storage company, but would require the same use of the ocean. I presume there will be rules about where such business can be conducted as to not interrupt shipping lanes. I need to know what other restrictions need to be considered.

Thanks for any help,
Matt

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Convention_on_the_Law_of_the_Sea
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_waters

First rule of the ocean:
1-First chance it gets the ocean WILL drown you.

What types of business are allowed off the coasts of countries? I know there is a 200 mile economic zone that countries are entitled to. What does this mean though?

For example, say I wanted to start a new kind of 'storage' company whereas I would use a ship to drop floating containers out at sea? Essentially I'm only using the ocean for its space and not taking any other resources from it. I'm not fishing, dumping, or affecting anything else in the ocean.

Can anyone point me in the right direction on where I can learn more about the rules and laws governing these bodies of water?

I'd like to form a company that would essentially act in the same manner as the storage company example. It would not be a storage company, but would require the same use of the ocean. I presume there will be rules about where such business can be conducted as to not interrupt shipping lanes. I need to know what other restrictions need to be considered.

Thanks for any help,
Matt

so you log on to a bike forum, to start your research?

Well, you can't use the ocean for storage. Any unmanned, floating objects other than navigation or research bouys in the open ocean are subject to salvage and it's "finders keepers". You even have to be careful about even getting a tow to the marina if you run out of gas out on the ocean in either national or international waters, or the tower can legaly claim 10% of the value of your boat for doing it. You need to be clear up front before you accept a tow as to the conditions of the tow. ;)

What types of business are allowed off the coasts of countries? I know there is a 200 mile economic zone that countries are entitled to. What does this mean though?

For example, say I wanted to start a new kind of 'storage' company whereas I would use a ship to drop floating containers out at sea? Essentially I'm only using the ocean for its space and not taking any other resources from it. I'm not fishing, dumping, or affecting anything else in the ocean.

Can anyone point me in the right direction on where I can learn more about the rules and laws governing these bodies of water?

I'd like to form a company that would essentially act in the same manner as the storage company example. It would not be a storage company, but would require the same use of the ocean. I presume there will be rules about where such business can be conducted as to not interrupt shipping lanes. I need to know what other restrictions need to be considered.

Thanks for any help,
Matt

:wtf:

so you log on to a bike forum, to start your research?

This is a treasure trove for legal research, is it not?

:lol:

so you log on to a bike forum, to start your research?

Only because I know there are enough losers on here at anytime during the day for which I could get a quick reply.

Well, you can't use the ocean for storage. Any unmanned, floating objects other than navigation or research bouys in the open ocean are subject to salvage and it's "finders keepers". You even have to be careful about even getting a tow to the marina if you run out of gas out on the ocean in either national or international waters, or the tower can legaly claim 10% of the value of your boat for doing it. You need to be clear up front before you accept a tow as to the conditions of the tow. ;)

Are you positive that's true? What about a crab fishermans pots?

:wtf:

Yea I didn't say exactly what I wanted to. What I was trying to say is that my company would be using the ocean as a place to store materials for temporary periods of time. It would not be a storage company in the sense that I would not be storing things for other companies or people. I essentially want to use the ocean as my warehouse by floating containers out at sea until I need the materials within them.

permanentjaun's floating mini-storage and casino!! We have video poker!!!

Floating brothel?

I essentially want to use the ocean as my warehouse by floating containers out at sea until I need the materials within them.

There's a reason why this hasn't been done before. When you find that, you'll know why everyone else stores their stuff on land.

permanentjaun's floating mini-storage and casino!! We have video poker!!!
Floating brothel?

Add to these "Thunderdome" and "massive server farm for storage and trading of software, music, and movies," and you've really got something.

Yea I didn't say exactly what I wanted to. What I was trying to say is that my company would be using the ocean as a place to store materials for temporary periods of time. It would not be a storage company in the sense that I would not be storing things for other companies or people. I essentially want to use the ocean as my warehouse by floating containers out at sea until I need the materials within them.

http://www.zap2it.com/media/photo/2009-05/47001695.jpg

http://l.yimg.com/eb/ymv/us/img/hv/photo/movie_pix/universal_pictures/waterworld/dennis_hopper/water1.jpg

Are you positive that's true? What about a crab fishermans pots?Fishing is regulated. There is usually a time limit on how long the traps can be unattended.

I suggest http://www.imli.org/ if you want to do some research.

Not to sound trite, but in your original scenario, the first law of the ocean will be can you defend your property from pirates. You will be outside the jurisdiction of any nation and as experience has shown off the coast of Somalia, an American-flagged civilian vessel enjoys no special immunity. Is the floating storage facility going to have any sort of 24/7 armed security on board? If not, do you think a manned vessel will be able to escape any sort of threat? If you are storing any sort of high-value or easily traded goods, expect them to become a potential target.

try the somalia national law library. ask for the maritime law department

Not to sound trite, but in your original scenario, the first law of the ocean will be can you defend your property from pirates. You will be outside the jurisdiction of any nation and as experience has shown off the coast of Somalia, an American-flagged civilian vessel enjoys no special immunity. Is the floating storage facility going to have any sort of 24/7 armed security on board? If not, do you think a manned vessel will be able to escape any sort of threat? If you are storing any sort of high-value or easily traded goods, expect them to become a potential target.

This is not true simply because nations have economic zones which extend off of their borders by 200 nautical miles. I would not be outside the jurisdiction of a country.

Beyond that, I can assure you that no pirate would want what I'm storing. If it was of high value then I wouldn't store it out at sea. Not only for theft, but because of damages that might occur.

Fishing is regulated. There is usually a time limit on how long the traps can be unattended.

I suggest http://www.imli.org/ if you want to do some research.

I'll have to check it out. I would leave a specific container unattended for around 14-20 days and replace it with a new one.

And it would be cost-effective to trash a $1500 container every two weeks? (Using a 40' standard container as an example, you would have to do something to make it float or make something that floats so it might cost more)

And it would be cost-effective to trash a $1500 container every two weeks? (Using a 40' standard container as an example, you would have to do something to make it float or make something that floats so it might cost more)

I never said I'd be using a standard 40' steel transport container.

Are you positive that's true? What about a crab fishermans pots?

They are attended daily and licensed, and fall under the same category as other bouys. They are marked by a bouy, after all.

My two cents:

1: The storage containers would be very expensive. Just the materials to make marine-grade stuff are costly. Barnacles love anything that floats in the sea, so one either needs to get the containers in often, or ensure they have enough displacement to deal with the heavy weight of them.

2: The containers will need bilge pumps, and some engineering to keep the contents from becoming waterlogged. Seals tear and weaken, metal corrodes in salt water, and waves can get large enough to turn over almost anything.

3: They will need security 24/7 as pointed above, and your guns have to be bigger enough not just to outshoot any would be attackers, but by a margin where they would not attempt it.

Ok, I'm intrigued.

What are they details, you've left so much out.

This is not true simply because nations have economic zones which extend off of their borders by 200 nautical miles. I would not be outside the jurisdiction of a country.

Beyond that, I can assure you that no pirate would want what I'm storing. If it was of high value then I wouldn't store it out at sea. Not only for theft, but because of damages that might occur.

Actually, no. The Exclusive Economic Zone is defined as follows:

Under the United Nations Convention on Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), the exclusive economic zone or EEZ is covered by Articles 56, 58 and 59. The EEZ is defined as that portion of the seas and oceans extending up to 200 nautical miles in which coastal States have the right to explore and exploit natural resources as well as to exercise jurisdiction over marine science research and environmental protection. Freedom of navigation and over flight, laying of submarine cables and pipelines, as well as other uses consented on the high seas, are still allowed.

This gives the State holding an EEZ jurisdiction related to the exploitation of natural maritime resources, such as fish stocks and oil exploration. Unless your storage idea has something to do with natural marine resources, the EEZ is irrelevant.

You may think that an EEZ is equivalent to territorial waters for your purposes and strictly speaking, this is incorrect: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_waters.

If you are beyond the 12 mile limit of US territorial waters, you are pretty much on your own from a law enforcement perspective. To the degree that ships are available, the US Navy, US Coast Guard and other Navies and Coast Guards will provide law enforcement services such as anti-piracy or drug interdiction. The US Navy or Coast Guard will not be stationing a vessel adjacent to your floating storage facility, even if it is an American-flagged vessel. This means you are responsible for your own security.

If you are really serious about pursuing this endeavor, you should probably get a consult from an admiralty lawyer ASAP. These lawyers specialize in the very complex legal issues arising from international treaties and country-specific statutory and case law pertaining to the high seas.

Well, you can't use the ocean for storage. Any unmanned, floating objects other than navigation or research bouys in the open ocean are subject to salvage and it's "finders keepers". You even have to be careful about even getting a tow to the marina if you run out of gas out on the ocean in either national or international waters, or the tower can legaly claim 10% of the value of your boat for doing it. You need to be clear up front before you accept a tow as to the conditions of the tow. ;)

That's not quite true Tom. In fact under salvage finder usually does not equal keepers, the law of finds however is a different story.

Oh boy, I think I just accidently set the server room on fire.

Couch

Floating brothel?
From a different mother, you are a brother ...

Sealand (http://www.sealandgov.org/) was up for sale a while ago. Maybe you could run your non-storage company there. :D

He's going to copy Dexter - using the ocean to "store" his recent victims...

As a mariner I can assure you that you will find everything marine related to be very expensive when compaired to land bound equivilents. Unless there is some very compelling reason to be at sea, it is best avoided, as it is unhospitable and unforgiving. If your goods are not of significant legal concern, they're going to be more easily and affordably stored on land.

As a mariner I can assure you that you will find everything marine related to be very expensive when compaired to land bound equivilents. Unless there is some very compelling reason to be at sea, it is best avoided, as it is unhospitable and unforgiving. If your goods are not of significant legal concern, they're going to be more easily and affordably stored on land.

Yes I'm sure it would be easier and more affordable on land, but perhaps not plausible. My line of questioning is because what is a 10 mile by 10 mile hunk of real estate in the ocean versus a 10 mile by 10 mile of land?

A - I may not have to pay for any rights to use the 10 X 10 real estate at sea depending on where its at. Whereas, I'd most certainly have to pay for it on land.

B - The permits required to put structures up and all the codes that need to be passed on land are such a waste of time compared to just buying another boat and sending it to sea.

C - The public always complains. Are they going to complain more about a storage facility opening next door to them, or a floating facility many miles out to sea that you can't see?

It's in my opinion that 73% of the world is covered in water and we're not using enough of it. We're so focused on putting things on land and it makes it hard to accomplish certain goals. We really don't use the water for too much. Fishing, travel, shipping, and some leisure, but not a whole lot else.

I'd like to see floating bike paths.

I'd like to see floating bike paths.Not until some headway is made as far as floating bikes are concerned.

I drink water.

Not until some headway is made as far as floating bikes are concerned.

http://www.aqua-cycle.com/aqua1d.jpg

that is a trike.

that is a trike.

this is not:
http://www.cicle.org/cicle_content/images/bikeboat4_copy.jpg

yeah, that suspension really smooths out the waves......................

yeah, that suspension really smooths out the waves......................

I just want to see if it could reach lift speed if it had hydrofoils on it.

I just want to see if it could reach lift speed if it had hydrofoils on it.

Maybe

http://www.human-powered-hydrofoils.com/

It's in my opinion that 73% of the world is covered in water and we're not using enough of it. We're so focused on putting things on land and it makes it hard to accomplish certain goals. We really don't use the water for too much. Fishing, travel, shipping, and some leisure, but not a whole lot else.

Great idea! Let's continue sucking up Earth's resources until there's no other option than to build another planet! Which is another great idea, by the way!

Great idea! Let's continue sucking up Earth's resources until there's no other option than to build another planet! Which is another great idea, by the way!

Your sarcasm is noted and ignored because I blatantly explained my use would in no way use the oceans resources beyond using its physical space.

Your sarcasm is noted and ignored because I blatantly explained my use would in no way use the oceans resources beyond using its physical space.

so how do you plan to finance your business?

Your sarcasm is noted and ignored because I blatantly explained my use would in no way use the oceans resources beyond using its physical space.



The oceans major natural feature is it's physical space.


Why not design atmospheric floating storage containers from helium and build your business in the clouds, like Lando Calrissian?:)

(It would be cheaper and easier, Mr. Noah.)

The oceans major natural feature is it's physical space.




Yes, it's major natural feature is its size. Its resources are not its size. Using it for its space without any other impact isn't going to suck its resources dry and ruin mother earth.

so how do you plan to finance your business?

The same way every other business is financed.

The same way every other business is financed.

have you been enjoying your remedial career guidance course, this summer?