Fifty Plus (50+) - Problem Shifting

I recently bought a new (to me) road bike. This bike has a Bontrager Race Lite Triple crank. I really like the bike but not the crank. It has one annoying problem that I have not encountered with my other road bike, that also has a triple crank (Shimano 105). To shift from the middle ring to the large ring I must pause pedaling.

I don't have to pause pedaling on my other road bike, nor on any of the bikes I have rented. It is pretty common to have to reduce pedal pressure; but not pause entirely. Why this one?

After I bought the bike I had a LBS go through it and set it up. They have rechecked the bike and claim that is normal and that I just don't know how to ride it.

What can I do about the problem other than live with it?

Seems strange. What happens when you try to shift as you normally would, without pausing?

First find another bike shop. Saying "you don't know how to ride it" can be a cover for "we don't know how to fix it", aside from being just a plain rude and nasty to say. It the big ring an after market part? Does it have pins and ramps? How old is it compared to what ever else you have?
I have never had a bike that you had tp pause pedaling to shift. Isn't pedaling what makes it shift?

The chain won't move to the next chain ring if the crank isn't moving. Is it possible that you just need to ease up on the pedal pressure as you shift rather than pause?

Only bike I have to take pressure off the pedals when shifting is the Tandem. I know the problem on this and that is an old front derailler- which is probably 8 speed- being used with a 9 speed chain. It just catches on the teeth and locks if changed under pressure but fine if we just ease off a bit.

Sounds to me as though the F.D. is out of adjustment or alignment. But I would go to a 2nd shop to get it checked out.

I'm currently having a very similar problem. I have a compact crank - FSA Gossamer with a Shimano Tiagra FD. For a number of months, I always rode in the big chain ring. Lately I have started using the small ring on some steeper hills. It shifts perfectly going from the large ring down to the small one but when I try going back up, I have to stop pedaling, hold the shift lever in and start pedaling again slowly. and sometime the chain will go on up to the large ring. It is frustrating.

I have had the bike in the shop several times for them to adjust things to no avail.

Today I was in the shop and they told me to bring it back in. They want to change out the chain ring. They suspect the ramps on the ring are not right for some reason.

I don't know if that is the same problem you are having but it could be.

I'm currently having a very similar problem. I have a compact crank - FSA Gossamer with a Shimano Tiagra FD. For a number of months, I always rode in the big chain ring. Lately I have started using the small ring on some steeper hills. It shifts perfectly going from the large ring down to the small one but when I try going back up, I have to stop pedaling, hold the shift lever in and start pedaling again slowly. and sometime the chain will go on up to the large ring. It is frustrating.

I have had the bike in the shop several times for them to adjust things to no avail.

Today I was in the shop and they told me to bring it back in. They want to change out the chain ring. They suspect the ramps on the ring are not right for some reason.

I don't know if that is the same problem you are having but it could be.

A ramp problem seems very unlikely to me. Do you have a picture of the left (bike) side of the big chainring? I have an FSA Gossamer, too, and can compare it.

Is there a different LBS you can try?

Seems strange. What happens when you try to shift as you normally would, without pausing?

It stays on the middle ring.

At that point I've got the shifter cranked over to the stop. Even if I hold it there the chain doesn't go up to the large ring. It isn't frozen since I can release the large handle on the shifter and use the little one to shift down to the smallest ring.

The chain won't move to the next chain ring if the crank isn't moving. Is it possible that you just need to ease up on the pedal pressure as you shift rather than pause?

Nope, I've tried a variety of shifter movements and pedal rates. The only thing that works is to bring the shifter full over, hold it and then pause. Then start pedaling agan. As soon as I start pedaling after the pause the chain moves up to the large ring.

Interestingly I rode my other road bike last evening. This one is Shimano 105/Shimano 105 vs. Shimano 105/Bontrager Race Lite. Other than the different crank both bikes are the same. It shifts like a dream no matter pedal speed or pressure as long as the crank is rotating it shifts.

Since the crank shifter combination came original equipment from the factory I doubt there is a compatibility problem.

Find a better bike shop.
I can shift my triples and my compact front DRs while pedaling and under significant pressure as well.

New Info

I talked to another bike shop. I was told there is a poorly advertised problem with the Bontrager cranks, especially the Race Lite. They often have shifting problems. The only solutions are: A) Live with the problem. B) Change Cranks to another brand that is compatible with the S105 shifter, probably 105 or Ultegra.

This shop is 3000 miles from the bike and has no hope of making any money off this. Plus, I've seen the mechanic there solve a wide variety of shifter problems. So, I have a tendency to believe him.

What say y'all?

Put the bike on a shop stand and have someone apply a little drag on the rear wheel while you pedal and shift. Observe the chain and the front derailleur carefully, to see if you can determine precisely what is happening. Is the chain perhaps catching between a chainring and the cage? I replaced my mountain bike's original 38T middle ring with a 40, to get better ratiometric progression, and I have to use a little care on the 28-40 shift.

Even if your derailleurs permit loaded shifting, it is always best to turn the cranks gently while changing gears.

...
Even if your derailleurs permit loaded shifting, it is always best to turn the cranks gently while changing gears.

I'm not sure what you mean here. Of course I don't try to ram the gears the way one would with a race car. I try to shift smoothly and within the gear's speed range. That seems to work on all other bikes except this one. Do mean to actually pause in the shift to unload the gears?

Even if your derailleurs permit loaded shifting, it is always best to turn the cranks gently while changing gears.

+1
I think that in this era of indexed shifting and ramped chainrings with profiled teeth, the fine art of shifting gears has been lost to most. Technology has replaced human skill. I try to shift as smoothly as possible even on my bikes that allow successful hamfisted shifting (primarily my newest mountain bike). But I get the most enjoyment out of shifting my non-indexed bikes which prefer, if not demand, a more artful touch, coordinating the various actions and components involved in a smooth shift. - flame suit on - ;)

New Info

I talked to another bike shop. I was told there is a poorly advertised problem with the Bontrager cranks, especially the Race Lite. They often have shifting problems. The only solutions are: A) Live with the problem. B) Change Cranks to another brand that is compatible with the S105 shifter, probably 105 or Ultegra.

This shop is 3000 miles from the bike and has no hope of making any money off this. Plus, I've seen the mechanic there solve a wide variety of shifter problems. So, I have a tendency to believe him.

What say y'all?

I can believe it. I have heard of it happening before and it is not down to the 105 bit.

Latitude65 - I just brought my bike into the shop to have the large chain ring changed out. They will put an Ultegra ring on the crank - under warranty.

I'll let you know how it works out. If that fixes the problem, it's much less expensive than changing out the whole crank.

Not to hijack Latitude65's thread - Bluesdog - I well remember shifting the old friction shifters and how you had to shift and kind of pedal together followed by fine tuning the derailleur so it would not make any noise. I tried doing kind of the same thing with the pedals - to no avail. I agree with Latitude65 - there is a problem with the chainring or at least the mechanics at my lbs make noises like the same thing Latitude65 is hearing from his contacts.

I'm not sure what you mean here. Of course I don't try to ram the gears the way one would with a race car. I try to shift smoothly and within the gear's speed range. That seems to work on all other bikes except this one. Do mean to actually pause in the shift to unload the gears?

No, keep pedaling while shifting, but without applying any significant torque on the crank or driving force along the chain. You should be pedaling more slowly than if you were actually propelling the bike forward. To do this on hills, one has to anticipate downshifts, changing down to a lower gear before one's crank RPMs drop too low.

Latitude65 - I just brought my bike into the shop to have the large chain ring changed out. They will put an Ultegra ring on the crank - under warranty.

I'll let you know how it works out. If that fixes the problem, it's much less expensive than changing out the whole crank.

Not to hijack Latitude65's thread - Bluesdog - I well remember shifting the old friction shifters and how you had to shift and kind of pedal together followed by fine tuning the derailleur so it would not make any noise. I tried doing kind of the same thing with the pedals - to no avail. I agree with Latitude65 - there is a problem with the chainring or at least the mechanics at my lbs make noises like the same thing Latitude65 is hearing from his contacts.

Yes, please let me know how you make out. Since my bike is second hand there is no warranty on it that I'm aware of. Still, changing just the ring would, as you say, be less expensive than the whole crank.

No, keep pedaling while shifting, but without applying any significant torque on the crank or driving force along the chain. You should be pedaling more slowly than if you were actually propelling the bike forward. To do this on hills, one has to anticipate downshifts, changing down to a lower gear before one's crank RPMs drop too low.

In other words; shift as I normally do, not pause as the LBS in CO says is normal. Thanks for the affirmation. Guess the next step is to wait for what I find out from Adriant about just changing the large ring gear.

I can recall the nuances of shifting "back in the day" of the late 70's and early 80's where finesse was required for overshifting, avoiding too much chain tension when shifting down to prevent chain throw, etc. Having just returned t cycling, I marvel at the sloppiness that modern drivetrains allow. I slam the chain around out of the saddle, shift down under all kinds of tension w/o chain suck, etc. Components seem to hold adjustments better and longer...and are far more sophisticated and, not so good, complicated. Brand and sometimes gruppo dedication seems limiting in terms of interesting combinations of components one can't think up.

Overall, nice to recall the quaintness of old stuff, but there was nothing marvelous about friction shifting or climbing hills with a 5 cog freewheel. Yet I smile to recall what heroic things local riders did on that old, seemingly limiting stuff.

Sorry for meandering OT.

Lat-65

The lbs has ordered a new Ultegra chainring. It will be in on Tuesday or Wednesday of next week. I will give you a report immediately afterwards because I will try it at the shop.

It looks like you can get a new chainring for about $50 to $60. That's a lot better that $175 to $200 for a crankset.

Lat-65

The lbs has ordered a new Ultegra chainring. It will be in on Tuesday or Wednesday of next week. I will give you a report immediately afterwards because I will try it at the shop.

It looks like you can get a new chainring for about $50 to $60. That's a lot better that $175 to $200 for a crankset.

I'll look forward to a report on final cost and whether it solved your problem.

By the way; why did you pick Ultegra rather than say 105?

I did not "pick" the Ultegra. It's a warranty thing. The bike shop chose to replace the chainring with the Ultegra ring. I'm not complaining.

I would have probably picked the Dura Ace ring if I were able to pick. Not that there is anything wrong with either the 105 or the Ultegra. I've got Ultegra brifters and derailleurs so it kind of fits, I guess.

Actually, I suspect about the only difference between the 105, the Ultegra, and the Dura Ace is the material they are made of. Each is a little lighter than the one before. Perhaps one of the more knowledgeable people here could comment about this.

Thanks.

It will be good to read how it works out.

I just received a reply to my inquiry to Trek asking about this problem. The Trek Person seems to say that this is normal and if I want better shifting I need to "upgrade" the crank. I've asked for clarification. But, his answer seems to support my bike shop tech's opinion.

Maybe that is why Trek changed the crank between the 2007 and 2008 model years?

.

Lat-65,

I just returned from the bike shop with my new large chainring installed. It is way better than it was. I just swing the lever all the way in and hold it for a second of two and now it shifts. Swinging the lever all the way in was never a problem for me, nor holding the lever in until the chain at least started to shift. It just would not shift unless I stopped pedaling and started to pedal again, slowly and kind of worked the crank until the chain took hold on the large ring. Now it jumps up on the large ring every time without having to stop pedaling.

I hope this helps you decide what to do about your problem.

I just received a reply to my inquiry to Trek asking about this problem. The Trek Person seems to say that this is normal and if I want better shifting I need to "upgrade" the crank. I've asked for clarification. But, his answer seems to support my bike shop tech's opinion.

Maybe that is why Trek changed the crank between the 2007 and 2008 model years?

.

Before spending any money, try this:

Dial out the high limit screw a tiny amount, 1/8 to 1/4 turn. Often that will improving shifting onto the big ring without throwing the chain. Since it's a no-cost option it's certainly worth trying.

I dunno. I think the "bad or incompatible crank" stuff is a load of manure.

I own an '06 Trek Portland with a Bontrager Race Lite 52/39/30 triple crankset, 105 shifters, and an Ultegra triple FD. It shifts flawlessly.

On my other bike, a Sora triple, when learning how to adjust the FD, I was able to make it do exactly what the OP says his is doing. Going back to the instructions on how to adjust an FD (http://parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=75), I made the problem go away too. (As I recall, it was the "H" screw and cable tension.) That bike shifts flawlessly too--and everyone says Sora triples suck. Mine doesn't.

So, based on my experience, when properly adjusted, the OP should have flawless shifting. The people trying to sell him new rings or cranks have their own profit interests at heart, not the OP's.

Guys,

My chain ring was changed out on warranty. It cost me absolutely nothing. It works now.

I went through the set screw adjustment until I thought I was going crazy. I had the shop do the same thing. They are the ones who determined that the chain ring needed to be changed, not me.

If it did not work now I would be ready to try dancing around a bon fire on a dark night on the 13th of the month or just about anything but it works so I am happy. If Latitude65 wishes to do something else, it's up to him. He asked me to let him know if this worked for me and I did.

My chain ring was changed out on warranty. It cost me absolutely nothing.

Yet still, the shop made profit on it. Perhaps not from your wallet, but from somebody's.

When you adjusted the H screw, did you also adjust cable tension at the same time? Doing one without the other will *not* work.

Hence, it's easy for a "professional" mechanic to mess with the screw for days and weeks yet still fail to fix the problem, and then make the easy sale (or warranty job).

Thanks everyone for your inputs. They are valuable. Here is where I think I am with the shifting problem:
-I took the newly bought 2007 bike to the LBS in the city where I was, not my hometown, to correct a shifing problem I discovered when I test rode the bike. I have a 2008 bike of the same brand and model but with a different crank. The shop adjusted shifting, examined everything and proclaimed the bike perfect.
-After the work the bike still had the same shifting problem, needing to stop pedaling(pause) when shifting up from the middle to large rings. I took it back. They said the shifter was fine, that they had put it on a stand and it worked fine and that the problem was my riding. I couldn't compare shifting of a Shimano crank to a Bontrager crank.
-Back home the local shop here says there is a problem with Bontrager cranks. They often don't shift properly when compared to other brands. They suggested either to have a shop in area where the bike is change cranks, or to live with the need to pause when shifting.
-Some of you think I can adjust my way out of the situation, some don't.
-Adriant says he has had good results with just changing the large ring. Thanks for your input Adriant. It reinforces the idea that there is a difference between rings and a change out of either the entire crankset or the large ring is possibly the way to go.
-I'm not a bike mechanic.
-Hmmmm, what to do?

A while ago, while shopping for a crankset, I checked out the Roadbikereview.com consumer reviews, and Bontrager and Truvativ (who makes the "B" cranks) got VERY bad marks for their shifting performance in just about every review. Interestingly, the Truvativ Elita triple that came on one of my 'bents had no shifting issues at all. Maybe it depends on the brand of chain?

SP
Bend, OR

A while ago, while shopping for a crankset, I checked out the Roadbikereview.com consumer reviews, and Bontrager and Truvativ (who makes the "B" cranks) got VERY bad marks for their shifting performance in just about every review. Interestingly, the Truvativ Elita triple that came on one of my 'bents had no shifting issues at all. Maybe it depends on the brand of chain?

SP
Bend, OR

I have the "Elita" Cranks an two of my bikes and they work perfectly. BUT- I have heard of this problem before so am prepared to think it is a True problem. When ever I have to change rings on any of my bikes- I buy Middleburn rings. Patriotism in a way- but these rings work. They do not have ramps but the rings are Shaped to aid shifting. On top of that- They last well and come in different colours to suit the bikes.

I just received a reply to my inquiry to Trek asking about this problem. The Trek Person seems to say that this is normal and if I want better shifting I need to "upgrade" the crank. I've asked for clarification. But, his answer seems to support my bike shop tech's opinion.

My Trek520 came loaded with Bontrager bits. Every time I removed something with 'Bontrager' written on it, things improved. Quite frankly, Bontrager parts feel like supermarket items - an attempt at producing 'quality' but with manufacturing costs in mind and like all such attempts, it rarely works. I won't touch the brand now.

Richard

My Trek520 came loaded with Bontrager bits. Every time I removed something with 'Bontrager' written on it, things improved. Quite frankly, Bontrager parts feel like supermarket items - an attempt at producing 'quality' but with manufacturing costs in mind and like all such attempts, it rarely works. I won't touch the brand now.

Richard

Mind you I'm not going to even see this bike for another couple months as I'm approximately 3000 miles away. But, who knows I may be able to bend the schedule so I'd like this taken care of soon.

Thank you all for your inputs. They have brought me to the conclusion that the Real Answer is that the Bontragger Racing Lite crank is at best a fickle piece of equipment. That is probably why Trek shifted to Shimano for their 2008 Lemond Versailles bikes.

In that light I just got a quote from an independent mechanic foir replacing the crank with a Shimano Triple. It is a reasonable quote according to my bike shop here. So, assuming a couple business details can be worked out I'm going to have the crank changed.

.

I've had balky front shifting like that before, and in my case it was a derailleur adjustment: the derailleur was too far above the chainring. In the old, pre-indexing days, I liked to 'toe-in' my FD slightly, but that doesn't do anything good with indexed systems.

My Trek520 came loaded with Bontrager bits. Every time I removed something with 'Bontrager' written on it, things improved. Quite frankly, Bontrager parts feel like supermarket items - an attempt at producing 'quality' but with manufacturing costs in mind and like all such attempts, it rarely works. I won't touch the brand now.

Richard

Glad someone else mentioned it before I do. Bontrager- Pre Joining TREK- made some pretty good bikes and they were well specced. He also did a line of replacement parts and accessories that although not top quality- were good enough. One underlying problem he had though was that his bikes and parts were expensive for the quality of the them.

Since "Joining" Trek. The Bontrager line has become the inhouse name for Trek parts. They are no better or worse than any other manufacturers parts and around the same quality. But I am afraid that If I get a bike to repair or sort out- the first thing that goes is the parts with Bontrager on them. Startetd with a set of tyres that I could not fit on a rim. The replacement ones fell off the rim. Then a crank that developped cracks within 500 miles of Purchase. Saddles-and forget them. Stems and seat posts seem to be OK- till I saw the price. I can keep going on.

I do not like Bontrager bits- but will also admit that I do not like any Inhouse parts from any other manufacturer either. But for some reason- Some peolpe like them.

Ah it's such a good German name "Bontrager". Couple years back they were interviewing folks in Floyd Landis' home town, Lancaster Co., PA, and one of them was Tom Bontrager. But not of bike parts fame. Would like a ball cap with "Bontrager" on it; but bike parts, I'm not impressed there.

Ok, here is how the problem was resolved.

I had the bike taken to a different bike shop than the one that was blaming the poor shifting on the rider, me. They rode the bike and confirmed the problem was with the crank. But, they said it was worth a try to replace the large Bontrager gear with an Ultegra gear. It would be much cheaper and they were pretty sure that would solve the shifting problem.(Same solution that worked for a poster to this thread)

Mind you I was doing this by phone so there was a bit of faith involved in the transaction. But, they assured me if the change didn't work they would make it right.

They changed the gear. It works great. I've ridden the bike about 50 miles now and it shifts perfectly.

Since the goal was to make both bikes identical there is a small downside to this solution. The crank arm on this LeMond is 2.5 longer than the one up home and this gear is a 52 vs the 50 at home. But I'm not so sure those small differnces are at all significant since it is unlikely I'll ever ride this bike more than 75 or 80 miles at a crack.

Just thought y'all would be interested in how things turned out.