Great Lakes - Chicago Crit

Who's in? I'm in for master 4/5. Any tips from last year? Pack finish or can a breakaway work.

For those of us who don't know Chicago well - where the heck do we park? The race bible makes no mention of it, apart for Pro teams. Any advice?

I'm in for 2 races. We'll see.

Thanks for the reminder.

Wanted to watch this.

Which Cat heat are you in Psimet?

http://www.explorechicago.org/city/en/things_see_do/event_landing/special_events/mose/chicago_criterium.html

Last year when I was there I parked for free somewhere on Washington and close to Michigan. Might not be possible anymore, since every damn street is metered now.

i plan on doing the 3's

Who's in? I'm in for master 4/5. Any tips from last year? Pack finish or can a breakaway work.

For those of us who don't know Chicago well - where the heck do we park? The race bible makes no mention of it, apart for Pro teams. Any advice?

With every Chicago Cat 4 thinking he should win this one, I'd be surprised if a break sticks. I bet there will be a lot of attacking, and a super fast race that comes down to a field sprint. I could be wrong, though.

Not sure where a good place to park around there. Possibly Grant Park underground? There also used to be a little garage right off of Jackson east of state that had affordable parking... but that was 13 years ago.

I'm racing the 4s. They changed the age for the masters race to 35, last year it was only 30. Bummer, only one race for me...its gonna feel like a real short race after Superweek.

There are tons of parking garages in the loop. But mind the roof rack!

I was thinking Grant Park underground. MJH - carpool?

I'm racing the 4s. They changed the age for the masters race to 35, last year it was only 30. Bummer, only one race for me...its gonna feel like a real short race after Superweek.

There are tons of parking garages in the loop. But mind the roof rack!

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahhahaaaaaa....sometimes it pays to be old.

I registered for both but may just concentrate on the masters.

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahhahaaaaaa....sometimes it pays to be old.

I registered for both but may just concentrate on the masters.

Hey, I'm getting there as fast as I can! :p

I was thinking Grant Park underground. MJH - carpool?

Hmm... maybe if you come down my way. Going up to Elgin to shoot back down SE to the loop would nearly double my ride time (at what might be an ungodly hour of the am).

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahhahaaaaaa....sometimes it pays to be old.

I registered for both but may just concentrate on the masters.

You don't know what old is, kid!

You don't know what old is, kid!

Get me my cane, you young whippersnapper.

I'm bald(ing). they should let me in the masters race just for that...I'm tired of these masters +50 guys with a full head of hair...what kind of BS is that. Older, faster and more hair...total crap man.


I was on TV this morning. ABC and the Mayors Office of Special Events did a promo for the race and a few other Spidermonkeys (3 in total) were in the background. xXx were invited, and I saw a few on the LFP 15 min after, but none showed up...hhhhmmmmm. I was on the right side (looking at your TV). Not sure how many people watch TV at 6:15 am...but hey, I made it!

Lots of hype .. not a lot of news after.

Ummm ... so ..... ???

Lots of hype .. not a lot of news after.

Ummm ... so ..... ???

Check out Psimet's blog. Good stuff!

Yeah, I just checked my Google Reader ... I see that today is going to be a Blog-athon! :p

I wanted to get down there to take pics. LOML reminded me we had to head on up to Wisconsin that afternoon to catch the Coldplay concert, so I ended up just going out for my regular loop in the AM.

Awesome race. The event was run better than last year, more efficient, better placement of beer garden near the fountain (Psi found it pretty easy!), they had checks for primes and payouts ready to go so no payout fiasco like last year (I hope nothing bounces! ha!)

Beautiful weather. Race was a 20 min ride from home. nice.

Race went well. some usual BS in the cat 4 peloton. Lost of newly upgraded folks learning pack management in the largest field they probably will ever face (I think the 4s were 125, but I heard 130). I was able to stay up near the front, took a nice pull early in the race, was placed nicely for the finish, and I'm not sure exactly how but I lost my line heading over Balbo and had to slow to not run up someones rear. Bummer cause I felt great, hard not to in that environment with that weather. I was ready for a real drag race to the finish and wound up making up places rather than securing my own. finished 6th. nice payout and 1 upgrade point. That was kind of a bummer but $75 payout for 6th place heals the wounds a bit. That and all the beer I could handle till the end of the day...(we were pouring 312s and consuming them all afternoon. I was toast by the end of the pro race.)

I shook Chris Horner's hand and he was very cool...and even answered my dumb questions...a few beers made me forget to ask about riding for Radio Shack till I got back to the 312 tent though.

Awesome race. The event was run better than last year, more efficient, better placement of beer garden near the fountain (Psi found it pretty easy!), they had checks for primes and payouts ready to go so no payout fiasco like last year (I hope nothing bounces! ha!)

Beautiful weather. Race was a 20 min ride from home. nice.

Race went well. some usual BS in the cat 4 peloton. Lost of newly upgraded folks learning pack management in the largest field they probably will ever face (I think the 4s were 125, but I heard 130). I was able to stay up near the front, took a nice pull early in the race, was placed nicely for the finish, and I'm not sure exactly how but I lost my line heading over Balbo and had to slow to not run up someones rear. Bummer cause I felt great, hard not to in that environment with that weather. I was ready for a real drag race to the finish and wound up making up places rather than securing my own. finished 6th. nice payout and 1 upgrade point. That was kind of a bummer but $75 payout for 6th place heals the wounds a bit. That and all the beer I could handle till the end of the day...(we were pouring 312s and consuming them all afternoon. I was toast by the end of the pro race.)

I shook Chris Horner's hand and he was very cool...and even answered my dumb questions...a few beers made me forget to ask about riding for Radio Shack till I got back to the 312 tent though.

Check the rules again. I'm pretty sure the points went 10 deep in that field.

You're both wrong. (http://www.usacycling.org/news/user/story.php?id=580)

Points for a 50-rider crit go six deep. Congrats, Slim: You earned a point.

Then again, y'all went only 17 miles, so technically nobody got any points, but I've never known Fowkes to be much of a stickler on length. (Are there any Cat 4 crits that go 20 miles?)

You're both wrong. (http://www.usacycling.org/news/user/story.php?id=580)

Points for a 50-rider crit go six deep. Congrats, Slim: You earned a point.

Then again, y'all went only 17 miles, so technically nobody got any points, but I've never known Fowkes to be much of a stickler on length. (Are there any Cat 4 crits that go 20 miles?)

Yeah...pretty much all of the superweek races I did were 20-25 miles.

You're both wrong. (http://www.usacycling.org/news/user/story.php?id=580)

Points for a 50-rider crit go six deep. Congrats, Slim: You earned a point.

Then again, y'all went only 17 miles, so technically nobody got any points, but I've never known Fowkes to be much of a stickler on length. (Are there any Cat 4 crits that go 20 miles?)

I'm not so sure that that chart is entirely accurate. If it is accurate in rule, it certainly is not in spirit. USAC seems to have been giving points 10 deep for all the "Big" races (ie., TOAD, Superweek, etc). Witness the Evanston superweek crit:

http://www.usacycling.org/results/index.php?year=2009&id=1638&info_id=18609


That Evanston 4's race had, maybe, 75-80 guys if that (probably more like 60). If they gave points 10 deep there but don't for the Chicago Crit, something is seriously wrong.

Anyone see that video of the crash coming up to the last corner in the 3s race? The link is on CBR.

Looks like the guy got his front wheel chopped by the rider in 3rd place coming across at a crazy angle. Also looks like that rider is from my favourite Chicago team - that's right, the one with the guy that got DQ'd for cheating and the home of some famous sandbaggers. Have a look at the vid and check the pic. Let me know what you think.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ewwhite/3760546891/sizes/l/in/set-72157621853160018/

I'm not so sure that that chart is entirely accurate. If it is accurate in rule, it certainly is not in spirit. USAC seems to have been giving points 10 deep for all the "Big" races (ie., TOAD, Superweek, etc). Witness the Evanston superweek crit:

http://www.usacycling.org/results/index.php?year=2009&id=1638&info_id=18609


You're not the first to be confused about this. Those aren't upgrade points. Those are for USAC's "rankings" (http://www.usacycling.org/rankings) -- rankings that few people know about, and even fewer care about, because the math is so fuzzy and inconsistent. (I happen to be the No. 1 ranked Cat 3 road and stage racer in the entire state of Illinois -- that and $2 will get me a Clif Shot.)

Anyone see that video of the crash coming up to the last corner in the 3s race? The link is on CBR.

Looks like the guy got his front wheel chopped by the rider in 3rd place coming across at a crazy angle. Also looks like that rider is from my favourite Chicago team - that's right, the one with the guy that got DQ'd for cheating and the home of some famous sandbaggers. Have a look at the vid and check the pic. Let me know what you think.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ewwhite/3760546891/sizes/l/in/set-72157621853160018/

The move made by that rider is so apparent and dangerous that I think someone should have filed a protest. If I'm correct, I think he ended up 3rd, and I think relegation and an apology to my buddy (the guy that got his front wheel taken out) would only be fair. That kind of move is completely inexcusable...sometimes I think sprinters in the amateur ranks are successful because they ride like aholes and don't care about putting others or themselves in danger.

Well, spectate on the back stretch of Downer Ave during the Pro race once and you'll see that move many times. It's unfortunate here that someone got their wheel chopped in the process. It looks like he was also bumping elbows with someone else at the time. What does he have to say about it?

The get a grip guy posts here as eskimo87 I think.

DQ'd for cheating? Do tell.

You're not the first to be confused about this. Those aren't upgrade points. Those are for USAC's "rankings" (http://www.usacycling.org/rankings) -- rankings that few people know about, and even fewer care about, because the math is so fuzzy and inconsistent. (I happen to be the No. 1 ranked Cat 3 road and stage racer in the entire state of Illinois -- that and $2 will get me a Clif Shot.)

Don't forget internet fame! (well, you've already covered that one!)

But 3/4 of your road races were in Wisconsin, so you're trapped the netherworld of USAC rankings...I wonder what the USAC algorithm is for that!

Yeah, I saw the placings went 6 deep in such large fields. I've got to get just a few more and I can get my rear kicked by the 3s!

DQ'd for cheating? Do tell.

not exactly sure of the rules on holding a line to the finish but the crash occurred leading into the final turn and not exactly into the finish, but it was less than 350m...I don't know but I doubt DQ was an option. That turn was so wide no one needed that much funny business headed into it. But he clearly tried to follow the first two. A-hole award candidate for sure. It's public domain now...karma?

Yeah. That was eskimo87. I read his blog...he's not badly hurt. Not sure about his bike. Too bad, he's been doing really well in the last few weeks.

DQ'd for cheating? Do tell.

Covered in the Winfield Memorial weekends Crit thread. The guy faked his age to race in an older cat.

Wow.

The only thing more inane than crashing is the finger-pointing afterward. (And, yes, that includes when a teammate of mine singled out a contributor here for being involved in two crashes in a Wisconsin race.) GTFU. Or are any of you ready to say you've never come out of a line without looking first? Never bombed a corner? Never crossed a wheel? Never misunderestimated the apex of a fast turn?

Since slim mentioned karma, I'll point out that Otero was crashed out on the final turn at the 2008 Chicago Criterium. Privately and in public he was gracious and forgiving to the rider who likely triggered the fall. That's racing.

The DQ that carlosflanders refers to is a 37-year-old rider who competed in some 40+ 4/5's races over Memorial Day. He has been in the States for only a few years and has done only a few races -- I'm told he thought that "40+ 4/5" meant that the race was open to people 40+ or 4/5. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. God knows I wouldn't be able to go to a foreign country and make sense of the fliers and regulations.

I stand duly chastened.

If I do a blatantly dangerous move I expect to be called out on it. I've been taken out a number of times myself, always due to careless riding - never to reckless riding. Yesterday a guy spontaneously wrecked in front of me. I didn't go down but the pack was well gone before I was able to clip in again. That was my race over. My own fault for riding at the back.

If you're smart enough to shave your legs, you're smart enough to understand a standard flier.

Wow.
GTFU. Or are any of you ready to say you've never come out of a line without looking first? Never bombed a corner? Never crossed a wheel? Never misunderestimated the apex of a fast turn?



Yes. Turn 5, yesterday. Thanks for not yelling Tom. Of course nobody went down.

As for the finger pointing... crashes happen, people make mistakes. You know that when you sign up. But thats not going to stop people for getting mad, shifting blame, and all that other fun stuff afterwards. Its human nature.

I just looked up the results and saw his name. I don't know him but I know he is well respected by fellow racers, deservingly so as Mr. Scrooby points out.

...Karma works in funny ways.

on another point. the Mob Squad kid that won the 3s race...I'm sure I did my very first race with him last spring in Indiana. And I looked up the pro1/2 results and saw Dave Moyer's name, another guy I raced with at the start of this year. that's impressive progress.

Evanston - Pro 1/2 - a spectator walked onto the course, took out both Rob White and Jay Tomson who were 2 points apart in the sprinter's jersey competition. I was at the wheel pit. Both visibly upset, words exchanged on how it could have been avoided by riding differently. The race went on. Happens at all levels.

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc54/biffbradford/cycling/SW09BEvanstonl-1016.jpg

Wow.

The only thing more inane than crashing is the finger-pointing afterward. (And, yes, that includes when a teammate of mine singled out a contributor here for being involved in two crashes in a Wisconsin race.) GTFU. Or are any of you ready to say you've never come out of a line without looking first? Never bombed a corner? Never crossed a wheel? Never misunderestimated the apex of a fast turn?

Since slim mentioned karma, I'll point out that Otero was crashed out on the final turn at the 2008 Chicago Criterium. Privately and in public he was gracious and forgiving to the rider who likely triggered the fall. That's racing.

The DQ that carlosflanders refers to is a 37-year-old rider who competed in some 40+ 4/5's races over Memorial Day. He has been in the States for only a few years and has done only a few races -- I'm told he thought that "40+ 4/5" meant that the race was open to people 40+ or 4/5. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. God knows I wouldn't be able to go to a foreign country and make sense of the fliers and regulations.

There was no 40+ 4/5 at the Memorial day masters events. There was a 30+ 5's, a 40+ 4's, and a 40+ race. It was pretty clear to the rest of us who were over 30 and cat 4's that our ONLY option was the open cat 30+ race. I just looked at the flyer again. As soon as that flyer came out I emailed ABD to confirm it would be a raw deal for us mid-30's Cat4's, and they were quick to respond that our only option was the open Cat, 30+.

I was also once told that WDT pays rider entry fees? Not sure about that, but I have a hard time believing the error at Wooddale was 100% innocent. But, everybody makes mistakes, and I'm willing to not let a moment of poor decision making color my opinions of that particular rider so far.

As for the finger pointing based on the video, I can't really make out enough to know exactly what happened. What I do know, however, is that I was dropped fairly quickly in the masters 4/5 race (I'm a sucker for the big prime). I went through that section solo about 10 times with plenty of time to look around and talk to the locals. There were officials at different spots throughout that course. If that crash happened where I think it did, there was a female official perfectly positioned to watch it live.

If she saw it and didn't think anything of it, or nobody complained to her, it probably wasn't "sanctionable" riding.

Speaking of rules, will Ben-Jamin Widoff and his $8k bike ever be forced to upgrade...

I was also once told that WDT pays rider entry fees? Not sure about that, but I have a hard time believing the error at Wooddale was 100% innocent. But, everybody makes mistakes, and I'm willing to not let a moment of poor decision making color my opinions of that particular rider so far.

The question is: did the rider put his real age on the entry form and the one-day license?

My opinion of that particular rider was formed from his earlier behavior and reinforced by sundry behavior of his team.



Speaking of rules, will Ben-Jamin Widoff and his $8k bike ever be forced to upgrade...

Sandbagging is a time-honored Midwest tradition. We all need to get used to it. Perhaps he's invoking the 25 mile Crit rule and his 40+ upgrade points (I've stopped counting) aren't really valid.

The question is: did the rider put his real age on the entry form and the one-day license?

My opinion of that particular rider was formed from his earlier behavior and reinforced by sundry behavior of his team.


Good question, although that's assuming ABR checked. I'm not sure they've ever asked to see mine...





Sandbagging is a time-honored Midwest tradition. We all need to get used to it. Perhaps he's invoking the 25 mile Crit rule and his 40+ upgrade points (I've stopped counting) aren't really valid.

He lined up next to me at both Evanston and Chicago (I suck at riding, but rock at getting a spot on the line... Gotta be good at something). Yesterday I really wanted to tap him on the shoulder and be like, "Dude, your wheels cost more than all my bikes combined. Don't you think those wheels, that SRM, and your 60 points would look better in the 3's?"

Speaking of which, Joel sent in his request today. He's only got 30 points since Friday. He's concerned he doesn't have the legs for 3's... Whatever.

And, I watched the video again. I think I was wrong about the official. I think she was to the other side of the "hump" and probably couldn't see that. Not sure if they had an official on the last corner, or not.

And this is why I don't race this course. When you have 125 cat3s in the same race, there is bound to be a lot of stupid **** happening.

In fact, 3-4x more than StupidWeek, as that is how many more people are in the field.

My opinion on the incident is that it was blatantly reckless riding, but not sanctionable. I brought it up because I've noted 5 or so unsavory incidents this year and the common denominator was a certain team.

I used to care about people upgrading but I'm alright now. I'm not going to win a race anyway so it really doesn't make much of a difference to me.

A few weeks ago I asked BW how many races he had won. "Two" was his reply. I told him he should upgrade, he said he needed results to show his sponsors.

Between USAC and ABR I think the total wins is more than ten, not to mention being the Cat 4 State TT champ a few years in a row. If I had his power I'd be a Cat 2 right now, instead of slumming it OTB in the Cat 4s with MJH2. At least the guy is racing and rubbing it in peoples faces. There are plenty of racers out there who mysteriously fade in sprints so as to avoid that untimely upgrade just before State Champs or Superweek.

fwiw, Sunday's 4/5 race was probably the weakest 75 man 4/5 field sprint I have seen. It was the anti-'bagger race. I was in my little chainring and still had to brake several times to avoid getting caught up in the sprint - bizarre.

Easy, Flanders! Psimet is riding high after his finish in that race. You should be writing about how it was the most impressive group of old, flat, slow crit racers you could ever imagine. You going to join us again at Downers?

And, who the hell would sponsor a Cat4? Wait a minute. Scratch that. I wonder if Dunkin' Donuts is looking to sponsor a Cat4...

Probably my last crit of the year. Might do the Dixon Crit on Sept 19th as a last hurrah. WIll do the Iowa State RR this weekend, a few TTs and a local MTB series as prep for CX.

Regarding the 25 mile crit rule, the IL state RR is officially a crit according to the 2008 USAcycling results. Will probably skip the 2009 version because the 2008 one was the stupidest race I have ever done.

Does anyone else think that the races at the Chicago crit were phenomenally boring? Maybe it's just me.

There didn't seem to be one sprinter in the finale at the 4/5 race. And how did XXX, with about 20 guys in the race, manage only one in the top 15? Must be losing their mojo.

Psimet's placing is very impressive. Takes a lot of staying power to be in at the final sprint, and I think a lot of folks faded at the 30 minute mark. I don;t think I even managed a placing in the top half of any race this year. This will be reversed come cross season.

Speaking of which, Joel sent in his request today. He's only got 30 points since Friday. He's concerned he doesn't have the legs for 3's... Whatever.


:twitchy: :roflmao2: He is and always will be a dork.

Speaking of which, Joel sent in his request today. He's only got 30 points since Friday. He's concerned he doesn't have the legs for 3's... Whatever.



Thats funny, but good for him! He's got a nice long sprint and is totally strong enough. I don't think he is faster than other cat 3/4 sprinters, but he's got great timing and a really solid jump. In the two races I actually sprinted against him (Sherman Park I finished 2nd to him and Sunday--6th) I closed a sizable chunk of the gap he created but it was his jump that won it for him--a classic case of a successful WRI. And its my jump that kills me--I'm too passive; I wait too long. But this is what, his first year on the bike? And his team/brother have the mental depth to help him develop. It was amazing to see how much stronger I am this year as compared to last--he'll be wicked next season too. He's a nice guy and I'm glad good things happen for nice guys who work hard.

Trust me, the solid teams have already got his number and they will make him work much harder, mentally, to pull one off. They know to chase Transplant down in almost any local crit. If he gets away, he's away. The same will be true with Joel next season.

JF has the purest natural acceleration I've seen in a long time. From what I've seen, he never really had to worry so much about positioning in the 4s because he could simply jump off the front.

He'll do well in the 3s as long as he can stay near the front. When he figures out how to slingshot off people he'll be scary. Probably take a year for him to develop enough fitness for the 3s and to increase his staying power.

Actually shouldn't he be automatically upgraded to a 3? I think the rules state that 30 points in a 12 month period is an automatic upgrade to 3. So it doesn't matter if he's got the legs or not (which he absolutely has), he is a 3 now.

Ryan Freund Whoa! :thumb:

07/26/2008 - International Cycling Classic | Criterium | Cat 4/5 | |
1 Ryan Freund 279249 447 Illinois Institute of Technology

08/09/2008 - Grayslake Cycling Classic at Prairie Crossing | Criterium | Cat 3 | |
1 Ryan Freund 279249 312

05/03/2009 - Vernon Hills Grand Prix | Criterium | Pro/Cat 1/2 | |
1 Ryan Freund 279249 103 ABD Cycling Team

07/14/2009 - SuperWeek Pro Tour | Criterium | Pro/Cat 1/2 | |
3 Ryan Freund 279249 157 ABD Cycling Team