Advocacy & Safety - left lane questions

I was turned onto a street and I got in the left lane for a turn I had to make in under a 100 yards. I get over a little early because its hard to get over at the last minute for the turn without causing alot of chaos. With about 60 yards towards the turn, some dude is yelling at me to " ride in the gutter". It should be noted the right lane was wide open and he could have easily passed and got back in front for his left turn (which he eventually did all red faced foaming with me extending my finger). Im a new bike commuter but as I understand the law Im supposed to be as far to the right as possible EXECPT if making a left hand turn or if is dangerous to ride as far right as possible. So I guess my question is .. should I wait to the very last minute to get over for a left turn (which rarely seems to go well while merging imo) or get over early and cause a 5mph slowdown for type A personality disorder sustating, redfaced, foaming, anti biking, SUV driving, ass tards for less than 2 minutes?

As with a car, change to the left lane when it is safe to do so. The people that tell us to ride in the gutter or on the sidewalk are clueless about safety. In my state, the law clearly allows cyclists to use the left lane in preparing to turn left.

You did right... let the "type A personality disorder sustaining, redfaced, foaming, anti biking, SUV driving, ass tards" kill themselves with their own frustration and their general lack of exercise...

Take solace in the fact that you will likely have a longer quality life then those blowhards.

BTW when confronted in that manner, it is best to simply smile and wave as if you just saw a long lost friend... just drives those idiots bonkers. (speeds their "blowup" process)

You are right, I always want to take the high ground but in the moment when some dude is yelling at me from his suburban my finger soemtimes flies on its own. But that only serves to make the general public more disgruntled towards bikers

gomer, you did fine. It's better to get left early rather than to try it too late.

With experience you'll become more confident about being on the left early, and also get better at finding or making opportunities to merge left later. You'll feel less rattled and more in control either way.

One element of driving a slower vehicle among faster ones that is counter intuitive (for some) and therefore overlooked by both some cyclists and motorists is that it takes more, not less, roadway length and/or time to safely merge. The OP clearly understands this.

With two vehicles going same speed one driver can just suddenly merge in front of the other, the driver of the vehicle that the other vehicle pulled in front of does not need to slow. No real preparation or reaction is needed for either party. This can happen in an instant and last second merges work fine.

However the driver of a slow vehicle merging in front of faster ones needs much more time to either gain attention of the faster driver they will merge in front of so that driver can accommodate if they choose, or much more room to merge in front of the path of faster vehicles so the faster drivers can have sufficient time to recognize the slower vehicle ahead and accommodate.

When I am cycling I always initiate my merges much sooner on the same roadway in preparation for the same left turns relative to when I am motoring.

Ignore things people yell--thats the first thing


Sounds like you did just fine, I always go left a little early, so that it is easy to do with plenty of time. And you establish your position, let people have a chance to see you before you start slowing for the turn.

One good thing, if he is yelling at you, at least he sees you.

I appreciate all the advice. The last thing I want to do is breed animosity towards bikers.

I appreciate all the advice. The last thing I want to do is breed animosity towards bikers.

You are habituating them to competent cycling. The same driver will eventually stop yelling the more he sees cyclists make vehicular left turns.

You didn't make it clear if you were signalling your left turn when this guy passed you. If he didn't see a signal, he probably thought you were just riding along in the left lane for no particular reason.

Also the laws typically require you to ride as far to the right as "practical" (not "possible"). Sometimes these are the same but not always.

I definitely wasn't signaling when he yelled, but I was a good 60 yards from the turn. Maybe I should have when he honked and yelled at me, either way he was a d-bag.

You didn't make it clear if you were signalling your left turn when this guy passed you. If he didn't see a signal, he probably thought you were just riding along in the left lane for no particular reason.


Signals for turns are only required by law (in AZ) 100 feet before the turn. While it may aid communication of intent, it may not be practicable to signal for a longer duration than that.

I signal to merge from outside to inside lane and signal to merge from inside lane to left turn only lane (when one is present) but once I have merged into inside lane I don't signal again (unless I think it will help and I don't need both hands on bars) until I get closer to my intended turn. If I signaled the entire time I was in the inside lane I may find myself riding 1/4mi signaling the entire time, not needed if the driver behind me has already responded to me.

I appreciate all the advice. The last thing I want to do is breed animosity towards bikers.

You did fine. Left hand turns are the worst part of commuting in traffic, I personally dread having to turn left on a busy road.

I was turned onto a street and I got in the left lane for a turn I had to make in under a 100 yards. I get over a little early because its hard to get over at the last minute for the turn without causing alot of chaos. With about 60 yards towards the turn, some dude is yelling at me to " ride in the gutter". It should be noted the right lane was wide open and he could have easily passed and got back in front for his left turn (which he eventually did all red faced foaming with me extending my finger). Im a new bike commuter but as I understand the law Im supposed to be as far to the right as possible EXECPT if making a left hand turn or if is dangerous to ride as far right as possible. So I guess my question is .. should I wait to the very last minute to get over for a left turn (which rarely seems to go well while merging imo) or get over early and cause a 5mph slowdown for type A personality disorder sustating, redfaced, foaming, anti biking, SUV driving, ass tards for less than 2 minutes?

If you were riding at the right side and moved left into the lane, you should signal (maybe you did).

How often have you made turns this way? How often do you get yelled at? (You'll probably find that you don't get yelled at very often.)


Signals for turns are only required by law (in AZ) 100 feet before the turn. While it may aid communication of intent, it may not be practicable to signal for a longer duration than that.
You might not be able to signal continuosly like you can with a blinker.

Making your intentions clear to other drivers goes a long way to reducing their frustration.

getting in the left lane wasnt the problem; i was there when the car rolled up behind me. It was being in the left lane awaiting the turn that he didnt like!

getting in the left lane wasnt the problem; i was there when the car rolled up behind me. It was being in the left lane awaiting the turn that he didnt like!
Well, if you weren't signaling, he'd have no idea of what your intent was.
If I'm in the left waiting to make a turn and I notice a car coming up, I signal the left turn.

(Dude: add apostrophes to contractions like "wasn't" and "didn't" or don't use contractions!)

Ya done good.

dude, i realize that contractions have apostrophes, however it is acceptable to leave them out as a form of shorthand, most commonly used in informal settings (like internet forums). This isnt an MLA English stylesheet forum. this must be your first time on the internet. Welcome!

BTW, you should capitalize the first letter of your screen name!

dude, i realize that contractions have apostrophes, however it is acceptable to leave them out as a form of shorthand, most commonly used in informal settings (like internet forums). This isnt an MLA English stylesheet forum. this must be your first time on the internet. Welcome!

BTW, you should capitalize the first letter of your screen name!

Acceptable to whom? People might ignore it but that doesn't mean they like it (or "accept" it).

Very few people leave them out. Is it really such a burden to you to use the standard form? It makes it somewhat harder for people to follow what you are saying. But I guess your laziness is more important than other people's time.

Seriously ... you're arguing punctuation on the 'net?

You did fine, it's the driver who couldn't handle being slowed down.

I have one left turn in busy traffic during my commute. I follow four steps:

1 - Signal my intent to merge from the outside of the lane into traffic.
2 - When clear, change my lateral position to far left in the lane.
3 - Signal my intent to turn left.
4 - Turn left when there's a gap in oncoming traffic.


Seriously ... you're arguing punctuation on the 'net?
+1


It makes it somewhat harder for people to follow what you are saying. But I guess your laziness is more important than other people's time.
If you're going to be a punctuation Nazi, it's not generally acceptable to begin a sentence with a coordinating conjunction.

As with a car, change to the left lane when it is safe to do so. The people that tell us to ride in the gutter or on the sidewalk are clueless about safety. In my state, the law clearly allows cyclists to use the left lane in preparing to turn left.

It's the same down here in Florida. About a year or so ago a cyclist up in Clearwater was cited for "impeding the flow of traffic" for making a left hand turn from, now get this, THE LEFT HAND TURN LANE. When it was taken to court (he never should have been issued a ticket in the first place) it was dismissed.

Signals for turns are only required by law (in AZ) 100 feet before the turn. While it may aid communication of intent, it may not be practicable to signal for a longer duration than that.

I signal to merge from outside to inside lane and signal to merge from inside lane to left turn only lane (when one is present) but once I have merged into inside lane I don't signal again (unless I think it will help and I don't need both hands on bars) until I get closer to my intended turn. If I signaled the entire time I was in the inside lane I may find myself riding 1/4mi signaling the entire time, not needed if the driver behind me has already responded to me.

On my ride home from the library I have to make a left hand turn to turn onto my street. What I generally do is traffic permitting is at about a block and half to two blocks before my turn, is signal a left hand turn to change lanes. Take the lane and then as I am approaching my turn I again signal a left hand turn and merge into the left hand turn lane. I have been passed numerous times by local LEO's and they've never stopped me.

I did have an elderly woman pull up along side of me and tell me that I "didn't belong in the 'middle' of the road." I told her that I was preparing to make a left hand turn.

If there is too much traffic for me to safely move over at a block and half/two blocks then I make a right turn and either do a "Uie" and go through the intersection or I go down the alley and come out and come back out on the "main drag" and then make my left turn.

Well, if you weren't signaling, he'd have no idea of what your intent was.
If I'm in the left waiting to make a turn and I notice a car coming up, I signal the left turn.

(Dude: add apostrophes to contractions like "wasn't" and "didn't" or don't use contractions!)

Most states only require signals within one-hundred feet of turning and/or stopping. Logic should dictate to motorists that if there is a bicycle in the left lane before a left hand turn lane that they are preparing to make a left hand turn.

Granted logic and common sense seems to be in short demand these days.

Sounds pretty logical to me. Hopefully I can avoid any more disgruntled motorists.

Most states only require signals within one-hundred feet of turning and/or stopping. Logic should dictate to motorists that if there is a bicycle in the left lane before a left hand turn lane that they are preparing to make a left hand turn.

Granted logic and common sense seems to be in short demand these days.

+this
if it was a car in the same position they would assume a left turn
keep doing it and they'll start to figure it out

or put a big sign on the back of your bike that says 'I am a car'; given the intelligence drivers exhibit this should fool them pretty well...

Another common scenario to consider is that there are often multiple possible left (or right) turns all well within 100ft of each other. I will (not always, but mostly) only signal after I have passed the point where there is no other turns possible, which means signaling for often less than 100'.

I don't want a rear approaching driver to think I will be turning left sooner than I am as they may time their slowing with the assumption I will have turned out of their way before they get to me. I also don't want a driver entering the roadway at an intersection prior to my intended right turn to pull out in front of me thinking I am turning before them.

+this
if it was a car in the same position they would assume a left turn
keep doing it and they'll start to figure it out

Exactly. One can only hope, one can only hope. I do it EVERY day. And uh, IF I'm not mistaken even the "as far right as possible" language in the various state bicycle laws don't they give us the legal right to make left turns in said manner?


or put a big sign on the back of your bike that says 'I am a car'; given the intelligence drivers exhibit this should fool them pretty well...

It might fool some of them, but that "lovely" mom who buzzed me, and then said to me at the library "a bike doesn't look like a car. . ." Would know the difference.

Another common scenario to consider is that there are often multiple possible left (or right) turns all well within 100ft of each other. I will (not always, but mostly) only signal after I have passed the point where there is no other turns possible, which means signaling for often less than 100'.

I don't want a rear approaching driver to think I will be turning left sooner than I am as they may time their slowing with the assumption I will have turned out of their way before they get to me. I also don't want a driver entering the roadway at an intersection prior to my intended right turn to pull out in front of me thinking I am turning before them.

I can certainly understand that. Where I start moving over is in front of a Sweetbays, next to that is a gas station, then 32nd Ave, a Thai restaurant, and an auto body shop, then finally my turn. If I signaled too soon a driver could assume that I was turning into anyone of other places.

Here the law on bike positioning is "as far right as practicable" which is not the same as "possible". I use a glasses mount mirror to look for gaps in the traffic to move out, and then move across each lane in separate movements. I end up right on the centre-line. Opposing lines of motor traffic are most concerned that they dont get hit by oncoming cars, so they leave plenty of space, and I dont get any bother from cars thinking I am slowing them down.

Your only mistake, in the heat of the moment, was the single-digit wave. I always smile r-e-a-l b-i-g like it's someone I've missed for a long long time, and I wave all five fingers.

Your only mistake, in the heat of the moment, was the single-digit wave. I always smile r-e-a-l b-i-g like it's someone I've missed for a long long time, and I wave all five fingers.

That doesn't justify the driver's escalating to violence.

Here is a video on this subject.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVXIKsn3cbU

Signal your turn and your fine. If I am turning left or and can't turn left I keep riding until I can then double back. I don't like sitting still.

That doesn't justify the driver's escalating to violence.

What violence did the driver escalate to?

What violence did the driver escalate to?

Sorry, I think that I got this thread confused with another thread.

I think it's good to signal. You don't have to do it continuously, but always do it before you move left, between look backs, and I personally prefer to do it for 2-5 seconds at a time occasionally as I approach the turn, or while waiting in line, just in case the person behind me missed it the last time.

It's true that some can understand your intention from your road position, but it's obvious that not everyone does, or wants to, so I like to reinforce it by signaling too. Just don't try to do it while simultaneously braking or turning, that's a greater risk of losing control.

I found a video that demonstrates the left turn, and more

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rU4nKKq02BU

For employees of a firm who can be tied to it, or if the address is known:

"Sir:

One of my clients recently observed . . . .

This action violates . . . .

His concern is that you / your employee will cause an accident resulting in serious injury or death, a tragedy for both victim and culprit. I urge you to . . . . "

Send certified, copy to LE if you like.

Need an attorney friend.