Cyclocross - Argh... yet another Budget 'Cross-sih bike buying question

OK, my typical M.O. of finding a frame for ultra cheap and trying to make it work for what I want isn't entirely working, so time to get new, dang it. Been researching the forums and have gotten a *bit* further, but not much. Here's what I'm looking to accomplish:
- Road riding comfortably, of course, centuries and such
- Hit the MTB trails (yeah, the real trails not just two-track although that could be fun, too)
- Occaisional beginner-level 'Cross race
- Light/Ultralight touring (much else and I'll hook the trailer up)
- I dunno...
- Enough clearance for big tires, and occaisional fenders (35c w/fenders, at least 38's w/o)

I have several sets of wheels to swap out the road tread with the semi-aggressive 'Cross tires (Kenda Kross Supremes in 35c or less aggressive Ritchey Speedmax or Michelin Hi-Lites)

Here's the list I'm looking at:
- Surly Cross Check
- Surly Long Haul Trucker (for the more comfortable long road rides)
- Nashbar X
- Nashbar Touring frame
- Performance Scattante 'Cross frame/fork
- Pake C'Mute
- Mongoose Croix Comp
- Soma Double Cross
- Bianchi Axis and Volpe
- Jamis
- And yeah, the BD Motobecane Fantom's

frame & Fork combos heavily considered, I have a good stock of misc. parts., plus I'll be stripping down one of the current builds.

Strikes against:
- Scattante: Can't open up front brakes wide enough to swap rims without deflating every time. Ugh.
- Nashbar Touring: Tight clearance on rear tire

Burning/Nagging Questions:
- At under $700 US for the full thing, the Mongoose is pretty tempting. Full Tiagra (except front Derailler, no bigge - I have a ahndful). But reviews? Anything? And yeah the wheelset's pretty cheap, but I've just had Cyclist Connection build up some for me (Aerohead rims with 105 hubs, antoher set with Deore LX hubs) so I plan on swapping wheels out
- BikesDirect/Motobecane: Tire clearance? How's it handle with a rear rack - noodly? Are they getting better on prompt shipment? Return policy?
- Surly: LHT vs CrossCheck? And while I don't doubt they are decent bikes, I'd like to get something a bit different
- Nashbar X: Some people report it's a great commuter but the frame is tight for carrying in 'cross. I dunno. you?

Anyway, more to come if I can think but feel free to recommend, comment, haraung, snarl, whatever...
Thanks.

What size are you looking for? I may have something for you in a 54 ish. PM me.

Thanks for the guys who've PM'ed me regarding used frames. Used frames are ALWAYS considered! Oh yeah! However, I am in the 57-60cm size range. If you've something in that range I'm all ears.

SURLY - I really dig the "Fatties Fit Fine" idea. I'd love to be able to roll some 42's if I decide to hit the Great Divide (not yet, but I can dream, can't I?) Why doesn't anyone else come close?

FANTOM CX/CROSS - I'm thinking of it and like the idea that they have braze-ons for racks and fenders. But hwo do they handle with racks? Do they get Noodly? And What's the max size tire I could squeeze down one? How is the shipping? The return policy has me a bit concerned. It may take me 15 days to find out I *can't* really dial it in to my body. Then what? I'm hosed by the looks of it. Wish I could try one out ahead of time.

MONGOOSE - I can find ZERO reviews of this. Anyone know anybody that rides one? IT's $640, and with the 15% discount, that brings it down to $544.00 Then with my Team Performance discount, that's an add'l 10% off, making it $489.60. Yowza! Better deal than similiarly-equipped Motobecane!

Thanks for the guys who've PM'ed me regarding used frames. Used frames are ALWAYS considered! Oh yeah! However, I am in the 57-60cm size range. If you've something in that range I'm all ears.


No one messaged me for used 54/56 cm frames :(
(pretty please)

OP, just go with the mongoose. You can return it if you don't like it! You'll get cash back and all that good stuff as well, which is nice.

I'm sure it'll be able to take a beating.

Otoh, the windsor cyclo is a better spec than the fantom.

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/windsor/cyclo.htm

YEah... with my Team Performance Membership, I save 20% instead of 15%. Ship it to the store, and It's at $500... although I'm not sure I trust their mechanics. I'll have to go over it myself. Dang. No one has a full Tiagra-spec bike in that neighborhood. I guess it sells in Europe and Japan, just not in the US. Although I feel like I'm cheating on my LBS...

So, I ended up pulling the trigger on the Mongoose. We'll see how smart I may or may not have been in a few weeks. Deciding factors were:
- Performance's return policy. While Bikes Direct did offer one, it's 30 days from the time they ship. So if there's some delays in transit, oh well. And if, like me, you're on the road most of the week and don't get it built up right away, tough luck. It may take several or more weeks of steady riding to make small adjustements and see if you still like it or not. Performance gives you forever. I called and question them on it and I was told if, in 10 years I still had some sort of quibble about it, Performance would give you the 100% money back or exchange. Dang.
- Integrated headset. Sorry, don't like the look of it, don't like to concept of it.
- I got a full Tiagra-level bike for much less than BD could offer. Now in fairness, Performance doesn't offer a Fuji or a Scattante in the Tiagra-level catagory near this price, either.
- Euro reviews are pretty complimentary.
- Spoke with Dave at Mongoose via email, and he thought the Performance price was pretty good.

We shall see how it all shakes out, but there it is.

Interesting.

One point - recently recieved and email from Dave at Mongoose. Based on what I told him the price was at Performance, he checked out the Croix bikes. Was such a good deal, his brother bought one.

I mean, the guy WORKS for Mongoose and the Performance price was better than he could get? Yow.

Additionally, some minor niggles with the frame design BUT it IS tapped on the seatstays for rack mounting. tres cool. Two eyelets on the rear dropouts - ooh, fenders and a rack should the desire arise. Very cool. Disk tabs with no cable braze ons, tho - wha???

LOTS o clearance for large tires. Could probably go to some of the narrower 29'er tires easy. Easily competes with Surly in the "Fatties Fit Fine" catagory. Nice, very nice.

The handlebars... I dunno. I know this isn't the high-end spec bike, guess I'm used to BioMax's and Nitto's. Bartape, tho... this won't last long. Real plastick-y feel. Eh, can't have enverything. All in all, well worth the money indeed.

Thinking of the Mongoose Croix Comp myself. If I wasn't ashamed to have my LBS assemble the Motobecane Fantom CX I might go with that... Sora shifters, but seems have more balanced components throughout, and it's only $500 for last year's model + no tax or shipping.

In case anyone is interested, Harborcountry Bike has some 2007 Schwinn Super Sport DBX models for $650, in all sizes but Large (too bad about not having large, this model looks perfect for me).

mrtornadohead, how is the ride quality on the road? I ask because the croix comp seems to have an aluminum fork.

And how about weight? In some thread, somewhere, it was mentioned at 24.5 pounds. Accurate, does it feel that heavy?

Mouser - as for the Aluminum fork, it's fine. Because you generally use a wider tire at less pressure (32-35c @40-60 psi) than a road-racer bike (23c @ 120 psi for example), the softer tire smooths out your ride tremendously, with very little if ANY loss in speed.

As for the weight, it's not too far off but it doesn't really feel heavy. Compared to my Bianchi and GT, it feels lighter when hoisting. But I don't know of many bikes at that same price point that are much less weight. The only place I notice it is if you are used to a road-racer bike, the wheels are a bit heavier - they take a little longer to spin up to speed. Part of that is the rim, part of that is the bigger tire. If you were racing it might be an issue. If you are commuting and just having fun on the Croix Comp it's a non-issue.

Thanks for the update mrtornadohead. I'll be doing 50/50 towpath and road. For road I'll probably put on 28 road tires... will be riding 20-70 miles with a couple friends who have medium level road bikes, so hoping I'll be able to keep up. All in all, I REALLY liked the Fuji Cross Comp I tried out at Performance, so for the price I think the Croix Comp should do just fine.

As best as I can tell a Large in the Mongoose corresponds to a 56cm in the fuji?

FYI guys, darn near ANY MTB disc frame will take 700c wheels...if you're looking to go cheap that's the perfect start. As far as tires for the 50/50 towpath/road...Panaracer Paselas or Vittoria Randoneer tires can't be beat.

From what i understand, the fuji cross comp and the motobecane are the same bike with the motobecane being $400 to $600 less. I think the general rule is something like this.
2008 Motobecane = 2007 Fuji Cross Comp

In fact, I have a 2006 Motobecane and someone in my apt had a Fuji Cross comp. The components and the frame were exactly the same. The frame/fork was the same as well. It was one of those aluminum A frame.

From what i understand, the fuji cross comp and the motobecane are the same bike with the motobecane being $400 to $600 less. I think the general rule is something like this.
2008 Motobecane = 2007 Fuji Cross Comp

Thanks for confirming that, I've heard the same. I really do prefer the Motobecane Fantom CX (2008 model for $500 right now) but am hesitant since its my first bike and I have NO idea how to work on a bike. I'm sure I could get it together fine, but still I wouldn't know if something was tuned right or not. If you think this shouldn't be a problem with a little help from the LBS then I'll reconsider. That Fuji felt just right.

Mouser - as for the Aluminum fork, it's fine. Because you generally use a wider tire at less pressure (32-35c @40-60 psi) than a road-racer bike (23c @ 120 psi for example), the softer tire smooths out your ride tremendously, with very little if ANY loss in speed.


Plus $500 leaves a lot of money to buy a new fork on ebay if there is a problem. But you're more likely to benefit from Kool Stop pads and premium tyres.

If price and local bike shop support are not factored in, which is the better bike? Croix comp or Fantom CX?The Mongoose has Tiagra shifters but misses in other areas, and the Montobecane has Sora but seemingly more even quality throughout.

Mouser - Sorry, way behind on this. But The Mongoose Croix Comp wins out for me, especially with Performance's garauntee vs. BikeDirect's.

Quick update: Been riding this around, abused it on mountain bike track, took it on a 70 mile road ride, 50 mile road/gravel road ride and all I can say is I'm REALLY happy with this bike. The wheels held pretty true on the MTB trail (can't miss all of the roots and rocks) and I had zero issues on long-ish road rides.

Problem is, Performance is damn near sold out of them, last I looked they only had X Small and X Large left.

I bought the XL for me because of the taller head tube. works great. Now, if I could find another of those saddles in black...

>I called and question them on it and I was told if, in 10 years I still had some sort of quibble about it, Performance would give you the 100% money back or exchange. Dang.

Wow. I once took a bike from an LBS for a two hour test ride and they wanted to charge me a hire fee! Lol...

Bianchi San Jose SS under a grand. Its a great value, lightweight cro-moly all around CX bike.

Now to add to the fun...

Gentlemen - first off, please forgive me if this is the wrong avenue to go down with the following message. If so, please redirect me. I can do as I'm told, honest!

As Mongoose is gearing up for the 2010 bikes, I've found an avenue for the 2009 bikes that Performance sold at a good deal for even better deal. .. I will put this info up in a different post.
Or you can message me direct.