Bicycle Mechanics - Sqealing Brakes - tried all the usual stuff

Riding a 2007 Tricross Comp with Avid Shorty 4 brakes.

Rear brake is fine - quiet.

Front squeals like a pig. Have put on some Kool Stop multi MTB pads (multi-compound), cleaned the wheel, sanded the rim slightly,cleaned again, toed in the pads. Still squeals like hell, and has a bit of a shudder now too -- I'm thinking maybe I toed them in too much? Would that cause the shudder/stutter?

Any other suggestions? Thanks.

You can always try a brake booster (http://www.bikepro.com/products/brakes/brake_boost.html).

If the cause of your canti squeal is a slightly-too-flexy fork, then this could solve it.

The "shudder" part leads me to believe this could be it.

I've had pads do this before. I just rode them like that one day. They shut up by themselves.

I doubt you toed them in too much. You may not have toed them in enough.

Those koolstops maybe your problem. Try $5 generics.

Those koolstops maybe your problem. Try $5 generics.

Seriously? Seems like I've seen the KS's recommended to help brake squeal problems...why the generics?

You can always try a brake booster (http://www.bikepro.com/products/brakes/brake_boost.html).

If the cause of your canti squeal is a slightly-too-flexy fork, then this could solve it.

The "shudder" part leads me to believe this could be it.

Brake boosters have silenced my loud squealing V brakes with Koolstop pads - highly recommended.

Riding a 2007 Tricross Comp with Avid Shorty 4 brakes.

Rear brake is fine - quiet.

Front squeals like a pig. Have put on some Kool Stop multi MTB pads (multi-compound), cleaned the wheel, sanded the rim slightly,cleaned again, toed in the pads. Still squeals like hell, and has a bit of a shudder now too -- I'm thinking maybe I toed them in too much? Would that cause the shudder/stutter?

Any other suggestions? Thanks.

I've been through what you've been through and tried the same fixes - none worked. The only thing that worked for me is a massive amount of toe-in (or toe-out if you prefer) -- about 2 mm at the front. This fixed the squeal at the expense of 'squishy' brake feel and a longer pull for hard braking. I dislike the squishy feel but I hate squeal more. I might try the brake booster suggestion mentioned above.

I think I'll give a brake booster a try. Any recommendations -- is any one better than another?

bmorey - I probably have about that much toe-in as well, and I thought it might be excessive. I played with different amounts, and nothing seemed to work too well. I put in what I thought was too much, and it worked for the first couple rides, then started squealing louder than ever.

Makes me want disc brakes.

Toeing in costs less than a brake booster. I'm telling you, it will work. Keep increasing the toe-in until the noise goes away.

Toeing in costs less than a brake booster. I'm telling you, it will work. Keep increasing the toe-in until the noise goes away.

You're right. Will do this first.

Well, a brake booster costs about $6 (one for the front brake only). The pads can be left parallel to the rim - no toe in necessary. To me when the pads are parallel to the rim, the braking action feels more powerful compared to toed in pads. So if toed in pads feel squishy try a brake booster.

I had the same problem on my 'cross bike with carbon fork. Seemed that no matter what I tried the front brakes would squeal and shudder like crazy. Toeing the pads to an extreme is NOT recommended as you will find that you will lose alot of braking power. After trying many different pads I think I've finally found the answer ... Kool Stop Tectonic pads. These are very highly rated and after putting them on my bike with no toe-in there is no squealing and the brakes are rock solid. You can get the pads at Cambria Bike for less than $10/pr ... http://www.cambriabike.com/shopexd.asp?id=79213&page=KOOL+STOP+TECTONIC+RIM+BRKAE+PADS

Shorty's have been known to squeal like crazy and I couldn't ever get them to stop. You can switch out to something like the Tektro 720 for $25 (use you KS pads) and you will get excellent power and modulation with no squeal or shutter. I'm currently running these on my Cannondale CX9 with the EC90X carbon fork with great luck.

Operator has it almost right. The Loud Stops ARE the problem. bk

Operator is right - you don't know how to adjust brake-pads.

Humidity would mimic the effects of riding in the rain. Wet-rim squeal is a common phenomena. Perhaps a softer pad, or a harder one for this? I'd experiment.

Brake boosters -- is there another name for this item? I can't find them here in Australia. May be they'are called something else here. I'd like to try one on the front of my bike.

Try this place: http://abbotsfordcycles.com.au/public/index.php

They are the best bike shop in Melbourne for odds and ends that "mainstream" bike shops would not stock!

Makes sure the brake bushings aren't shot too. front/back play can cause the same problems. See if the brake arms seem loose?,,,BD

Try this place: http://abbotsfordcycles.com.au/public/index.php

They are the best bike shop in Melbourne for odds and ends that "mainstream" bike shops would not stock!

Thanks for the tip -- but no luck. Lots of nice things, though.

OK...i'm going to make a confession here, as embarassing as it might be -- had the brakes reversed toed!

Why?

Because I mis-interpreted the toe as being the part of the pad that would be pointing facing into the the spinning wheel. Momma always said....

So, toed slightly and correctly, using Kool Stops -- no squeal, good braking power.

Toe = front. DOH!

OK...i'm going to make a confession here, as embarassing as it might be -- had the brakes reversed toed!

Ayup.

That'd do it ;)

Don't feel bad. We all make mistakes like that, and you're especially excused if you're new to this stuff.

Yeah, healed-in brakes should squeak pretty well!

I just toed-in the pads on the Dia-Compe brakes that came on my old PUCH 3-spd. I used an adjustable-wrench on the arms. It's nice to get back to the basics once in a while...now where's my hammer....

Don't feel bad. We all make mistakes like that, and you're especially excused if you're new to this stuff.

Yeah, healed-in brakes should squeak pretty well!

Hehheh...I really should know better. I"m not a total newb, but I've wrenched more on vintage scooters than on bicycles. It pretty much clicked when I thought about the forces being applied to the brakes and how the posts would be stressed and flexed -- then I decided to actually look it up and confirm that I'd done it bass ackwards.

I just toed-in the pads on the Dia-Compe brakes that came on my old PUCH 3-spd. I used an adjustable-wrench on the arms. It's nice to get back to the basics once in a while...now where's my hammer....

I recently showed a young fellow this technique, and he was horrified at first. But hey, that's the way you do it, and I've never broken a caliper.

Howcome every post about squealing brakes involves Kool Stops? Yes, I know how to adjust brakes, and I haven't had any problems since I got rid of Kool Stops. They are the problem. bk

I don't think Kool Stops cause squealing. To the extent that they seem to, it's probably because they stop better than other pads.

bkaapcke: I don't know why you have problems with Kool Stop. The way you describe it, you must have bought 100 sets of them by now, and all 100 squealed. Most people have no such problems. I sure don't. The pads on my Dia-Compe brakes I just described? Those are Kool Stop Continentals. Improperly toed-in - they squealed. Now they don't make a sound. Nor on my hybrid. Nor on my road-bike. Unless the toe-in is off - they work great for the vast majority.

Maybe you need to learn that toe-in is towards the front? Maybe you shouldn't buy that 101st set?

I posted a reply to this thread back in July thinking that I had solved my brake shudder problem with a new set of Kool Stop Tectonic brake pads. The pads did eliminate the problem for a week or so and then the problem returned. No amount of adjustment could completely eliminate the problem for good. I cleaned the rims, I cleaned the brake shoes, I toed-in, I toed-out, I didn't toe at all, I tried 3 different forks (2 carbon and 1 Kinesis aluminum), I replaced cables, I replaced cable housing ... I swear I tried it all. Then I found this ...

http://www.amazon.com/Tektro-Brake-Housing-1272AF-Silver/dp/B000C14HNS

I had seen this little device mentioned in a couple of other threads about brake shudder and figured I'd give it a try. I can't believe it but I think my brake shudder problem has been solved! I've only done a couple of rides with the device in place but the difference was immediate and the brake shudder is completely gone. I just hope it's a permanent solution (fingers crossed).

Aha. So it was a case of shudder between the hanger and the brake. Where was your previous hanger?

I previously has a hanger mounted as part of the headset stack.