Northeast - Idiot biker arrested for shooting gun on SRT

Yeah, that's the way to deal with juveniles. I ride that section of trail several times a week, and have for nearly (yikes) 20 years. Anybody who needs to shoot at the stupid juveniles you see once in a while is an idiot. There is plenty of room there to turn the eff around and go the other way if you're scared of juveniles.


http://www.trailreporter.com/incident/show/ag10cmFpbHJlcG9ydGVychgLEhFpbmNpZGVudF9pbmNpZGVudBjpNgw


Cyclist fired a handgun (07/22/2009 - 12:00)
Description:

A cyclist has been arrested for allegedly firing a handgun at two juveniles on the Schuylkill River Trail on 7/22/09 after he was allegedly confronted by them, according to a Plymouth Township police press release.
Approximate Address:

Plymouth, Pennsylvania, USA

greaatttt as if i wasnt already scared riding on that thing 3x a week...

Lets see those two juveniles were just standing around watching the people on bicycles and the crazed bicycle rider just pulled his gun and started firing.
I wonder just how old and how big those two "juveniles" were...I would like to hear more of this story.
I carry when I ride and there have been times when ??????

Spike,

It wasn't me!!!

It will be interesting to see exactly what went on in this incident. Exactly what did the juveniles do to warrant that level of response?

Much will depend on how the cyclist was confronted.

Bill

Spike,

Last Tuesday, the 14th, my wife and I did a 45 mile ride on the SRT. NO police patrols. Saw one park ranger and two work crews.

Then Saturday we did a 40 mile ride on the SRT. Cleaned glass and gravel off the trail behind the steel plant at Conshohocken. Then cleaned a lot of gravel and glass off the trail at the waste water treatment plant at Conshohocken. Also trimmed a bunch of vines hanging down over the trail. Again now law enforcement to be seen until very late in the afternoon when a Sheriff Deputy went up through on a motorcycle.

In the afternoon we hit Fitzwater Station for a snack. While we were on the deck they ejected two guys who they would not serve. They climbed into their van and raced around the lot showering cars with stones and dirt. Then they made a run at the deck and slid to a stop about 5 feet from the steps leading up to the deck. As they went back to the far end of the lot to make a second run at the deck I positioned myself in the lot about 20 feet out from the deck. as the van raced towards the deck I pulled the Colt and held it at my side. The driver got the message and headed out onto a grass lot owned by the township and tore that up with the van. The van was long gone before the police arrived. I was not about to let the guy hit the deck and injure people sitting on the deck. He was drunk and acting really stupid.

Another one here.
When you go from Norristown into Conshohocken you pass behind some homes on Conshohocken Road. One has a big plastic kangaroo along the trail. There was a lot of railroad ballast stone scattered around on the trail. Looked like somebody was throwing it onto the trail from down on the railroad. So we gathered all of that up before somebody hit any of it.

As I sad at the brush clearing party. Once the law enforcement ceased their patrols the trail would again see problems. As long as they patrolled frequently there were no problems. With no action for a few weeks they of course cut back on the number of patrols.


On Sunday we did 30 mile ride on the SRT and finally saw

Spike,

You wrote:
>There is plenty of room there to turn the eff around and go the other way if you're scared of juveniles.<

In that statement you ignore the point that a lot of trail users know utterly nothing of the roads and streets around the trail. For the length of that trail I know where Ridge Ave./Pike is in relation to the trail. Anything else is a mystery. To some of us the idea of leaving the trail to continue on roads or streets is simply not an option.

Spike,

It wasn't me!!!

It will be interesting to see exactly what went on in this incident. Exactly what did the juveniles do to warrant that level of response?

Much will depend on how the cyclist was confronted.

Bill


Unless the 'juveniles' were highwaymen who ambushed and waylaid the weary traveler, and brandished firearms in commission of said ambush, demanding that the weary traveler surrender his gold, his boots and his mount or suffer the pain of death, then the weary traveler was beyond the law in shooting at said juveniles.


Seriously, WTF?

As far as I know, this is the first shot ever fired on the SRT. And the shooter was one of us in the biking community.

Yeah, that's going to have a calming effect on the relationship between bikers and locals. NOT.

At least the idiot didn't actually shoot anybody.


.

Spike, I agree with that sentiment. The problem is, a lot of people react more forcefully to this kind of thing --you might even say "overreact." There follows a true story, set in a Long Island town often described in the New York Times as "gritty" (which means: it's a slum).

Last weekend I fixed a couple old bikes for my neighbors, a couple whose average age is about 60. They hadn't ridden bikes in ten or twenty or maybe thirty years. Now they've taken to tooling around the neighborhood on bikes, which is very cute.

Well, on their second day, a guy steps out in front of them while they're stopping at a stop sign and says "gimme one of them bikes!" I wasn't there, so don't ask me how serious the guy was about robbing them. The police wouldn't do anything because the confrontation did not actually involve threat, and didn't escalate to the guy doing anything; again, don't ask me wtf, I have only my neighbors' version of events.

Anyway, needless to say they were extremely ticked off.

Their reaction? They went out and bought a gun, and instead of riding their bikes in the evening, they've been going to a shooting range.

Needless to say I am very bummed out about this. I don't know whether they plan on riding their bikes armed, now, but whatever they have planned, the situation is not improving.

Here in Texas they would be applauding the shooter..................

Here in Texas they would be applauding the shooter..................

Good for texas.

We're kinda different than texas up here urban southeast pennsylvania.

Unless the 'juveniles' were highwaymen who ambushed and waylaid the weary traveler, and brandished firearms in commission of said ambush, demanding that the weary traveler surrender his gold, his boots and his mount or suffer the pain of death, then the weary traveler was beyond the law in shooting at said juveniles.


Seriously, WTF?

As far as I know, this is the first shot ever fired on the SRT. And the shooter was one of us in the biking community.

Yeah, that's going to have a calming effect on the relationship between bikers and locals. NOT.

At least the idiot didn't actually shoot anybody.


.

Spike,

The week before the brush clearing at Haws Ave. I was picking up spent 9mm cases behind Gretz Distributing. At night the section of the trail behind Gretz is a circus. Two years ago the wife and I spent almost 30 minutes sweeping broken auto window glass off the trail. From the tire tracks it appeared as if one car was being chased. The cars entered the trail from Gretz lot. Then the first car stopped and occupants of the second car proceeded to take the windows out of the car.

Up until about 2 years ago the section of the trail behind the Mittal plant into Conshohocken was more dangerous than the Haws Ave. area at Norristown.
You had youths on 20 inch bikes on the trail and under the bridge where you drop down into Conshohocken. Playing games where they deliberately ran bikers off the trail.

About two years ago on Labor Day the trail was packed. There were three youths behind the homes on Conshohocken Road running motorized vehicles on the trail. Two on motor bikes and one on a 3-wheel ATV. They would run down the grass along the trail at top speed. Then cut across the trail through the bike traffic. The one on the 3-wheeled ATV would charge down the trail directly at oncoming bikes. He came very close to taking my wife off her bike. They lived in a house next to the one with the plastic kangaroo along the side of the trail.

The little thugs in this incident will come out on top on this one. The victim fired after they had turned and ran. A big no-no in Pennsylvania.
They don't have to brandish firearms. PA law, and case law in clear. If they threaten "grievous bodily harm or death" one can respond with deadly force. But! You must first try to back away before you resort to deadly force. Case law gets cute. If you are a grown man faced with a young thug who is not armed you are expected to use physical force before responding with deadly force. But if you are elderly the rules of engagement are real liberal.

This is but another incident that shows that the trail needs some sort of patrolling. If you bike rail trails in Maryland you will see elderly retired guys in green uniforms riding recumbents. They carry no arms. Just a cell phone. Any nonsense and they get local police on the scene quickly.

As I told you at the brush clearing detail. Once the police backed off on the trail patrols it would be back to business as usual with the thugs.

Bill

I dunno Knight.

I've been riding that trail for decades, on a very regular basis, practically daily in the warm months, from pre-dawn hours to after-sunset darkness and everything in between.

I have yet to see the kind of post-apocalyptic urban decay and collapse of the social contract between human beings that you seem to see every time you ride.

I guess that's why I don't carry a gun, and you do carry a gun when you ride.

Frankly, if at any time since they paved over the old Pennsy tracks and called it a bike path I had felt the need to carry a deadly weapon to ride there, I'd have found someplace else to ride.

I dunno Knight.

I've been riding that trail for decades, on a very regular basis, practically daily in the warm months, from pre-dawn hours to after-sunset darkness and everything in between.

I have yet to see the kind of post-apocalyptic urban decay and collapse of the social contract between human beings that you seem to see every time you ride.

I guess that's why I don't carry a gun, and you do carry a gun when you ride.

Frankly, if at any time since they paved over the old Pennsy tracks and called it a bike path I had felt the need to carry a deadly weapon to ride there, I'd have found someplace else to ride.


Spike,

Our mutual friend who lives at Port Indian will no longer ride the trail down towards Norristown. She ran into something nasty about two weeks ago. So now when we get together in the evening we all ride up towards Pawlings Road. She has used the SRT from the time it was first paved.

As to finding someplace else to ride. I have discussed that with my wife for the past two years. But she likes the SRT and some of the friends she has made on that trail. When I ride alone I do the Thun Trail, Reading to Pottstown. The Thun Trail is easier on my wallet. A full day ride for us on the SRT runs around 20 to 40 dollars for snacks and a meal. Over the past 5 years I have dumped a bunch of money into the local economy in Montgomery. Food, clothing, bike parts, etc.
Together we have put about 14,000 miles on that trail.

If the county does not get a grip on some of the nonsense on that trail it will not contribute to the local economy to the point where it is worthwhile to maintain.

I would also point out that in 2004 - 2005 the trail was open for use 24/7. Now it is only dawn to dusk. What caused the change in use hours?

Bill

Spike,

Our mutual friend who lives at Port Indian will no longer ride the trail down towards Norristown. She ran into something nasty about two weeks ago. So now when we get together in the evening we all ride up towards Pawlings Road. She has used the SRT from the time it was first paved.

As to finding someplace else to ride. I have discussed that with my wife for the past two years. But she likes the SRT and some of the friends she has made on that trail. When I ride alone I do the Thun Trail, Reading to Pottstown. The Thun Trail is easier on my wallet. A full day ride for us on the SRT runs around 20 to 40 dollars for snacks and a meal. Over the past 5 years I have dumped a bunch of money into the local economy in Montgomery. Food, clothing, bike parts, etc.
Together we have put about 14,000 miles on that trail.

If the county does not get a grip on some of the nonsense on that trail it will not contribute to the local economy to the point where it is worthwhile to maintain.

I would also point out that in 2004 - 2005 the trail was open for use 24/7. Now it is only dawn to dusk. What caused the change in use hours?

Bill

I haven't seen any signs specifying hours that the trail is open.

Where are you seeing these signs?

:eek:

Anyone remember Bernie Goetz?

Anyone remember Bernie Goetz?

I was thinking about bernie numerous times during this episode. At least bernie stabbed the juveniles with a screwdriver, which is infinitely more ballsy than trying to shoot kids in the back when they are 250 feet away and in retreat.

That's pretty bad, when even bernie looks like a real man compared to you.

I have to admit, I'm pretty disgusted by the creeps that infect the SRT with their anti-social behavior. But I'm also appalled that one should think it necessary to discharge a weapon in such a public place as the SRT. Especially on a bunch of kids who apparently were unarmed and in retreat. And with other cyclists and pedestrians nearby, this could have been catastrophic. Me thinks this situation has gotten entirely out of hand between the thugs and the vigilantes (and yes, that is, in fact what this guy is, and not in any positive sense). I don't know that I have any better solution than to keep up the pressure on the local constabulary, or perhaps to institute our own "town watch on bicycles" kind of patrols. The former, as we have seen, works for a while until more pressing issues compete for limited police resources. The latter requires an enormous commitment of time and energy that I'm not sure is sustainable. Short of building a 12' high fence, what other options are there?

I have to admit, I'm pretty disgusted by the creeps that infect the SRT with their anti-social behavior. But I'm also appalled that one should think it necessary to discharge a weapon in such a public place as the SRT. Especially on a bunch of kids who apparently were unarmed and in retreat. And with other cyclists and pedestrians nearby, this could have been catastrophic. Me thinks this situation has gotten entirely out of hand between the thugs and the vigilantes (and yes, that is, in fact what this guy is, and not in any positive sense). I don't know that I have any better solution than to keep up the pressure on the local constabulary, or perhaps to institute our own "town watch on bicycles" kind of patrols. The former, as we have seen, works for a while until more pressing issues compete for limited police resources. The latter requires an enormous commitment of time and energy that I'm not sure is sustainable. Short of building a 12' high fence, what other options are there?

You are 100% correct in the thing about discharging a firearm in a public place. Actually any place but a target range with a good backstop. I have seen 9mm rounds go two blocks here in the city after they had bounced off brick walls.
The fact that they were in retreat insures that the shooter will be hung out to dry.

Up here last year the Schuylkill River Greenway group put together what they called Trail Ambassadors to monitor the Thun Trail in the area around Reading. People who do not live in Reading would not use the trail in the Reading section. Armed only with cell phones. They also assisted those with mechanical problems with their bikes and gave directions to those who did not know the trail all that well. There are a number of retired men who would ride the trail daily at different times of the day and these Trail Ambassadors were selected from those trail users. The program worked very well.

But depending on the area around the trail it would be impossible to make the trail 100% safe for all users. The cell phone is the first line of defense with the gun as the absolute last resort.

Latest update:

http://www.timesherald.com/articles/2009/07/30/news/doc4a7108665e7f6876152789.txt


Finding in trail violence case

Published: Thursday, July 30, 2009

By KEITH PHUCAS
Times Herald Staff

PLYMOUTH — A 17-year-old male from Norristown was adjudicated delinquent in juvenile court after admitting he assaulted a bicyclist on the Schuylkill River Trail in the Conshohocken section of Plymouth township. During last week’s altercation, the cyclist fired a gun at the teenager’s bicycle, hitting its rear tire.

When Plymouth Township police went to the home of the teenager’s father to arrest the juvenile, they discovered an alleged “bicycle chop shop” in the basement that included nearly 20 bicycles and bike parts suspected of being stolen, according to Montgomery County District Attorney Risa Vetri Ferman.

The DA, who was joined by police and detectives from Plymouth and Norristown police departments, displayed the contraband inside a sally port at Plymouth Police Department.

Investigators are seeking the public’s help to identify the bikes, many of which are Mongoose BMX brand.

“Dozens, maybe even 100 bikes, were moved through this (Norristown) residence,” Ferman said.

On Wednesday, July 22, Plymouth police received reports of shots fired on the bike path, and a 27-year-old Norristown man, Joseph James DePaul Jr., called police to report he had fired a weapon after two teenagers harassed him on the trail.

As DePaul tried to get onto the bike trail in Conshohocken around 8:30 p.m., two juveniles on bikes reportedly blocked his path. Though DePaul was able to get around them, both juveniles followed him, according to the DA’s Office.

After the teens passed the 27-year-old cyclist, the juveniles collided with each other, and as DePaul rode by them, they “exchanged words” with him.

Soon after, the 17-year-old got back on his BMX bike and chased DePaul, and after catching up to him kicked him causing him to nearly lose control of his bike and hit a fence.

DePaul admitted that he drew his Keltec .380 caliber handgun and fired six shots in the direction of the teen who had kicked him. One bullet struck and flattened the rear tire of the fleeing bicycle. The juvenile was about 200 to 250 feet away at the time, authorities said. At the time of the incident, DePaul had a legal permit to carry the weapon.

Two days after the shooting, county Sheriff John P. Durante exercised his authority to revoke DePaul’s firearm license on the grounds of endangering public safety. The Sheriff’s Department also is authorized to issue gun permits and operates independently of the district attorney.

Though the armed man was initially facing attempted murder and manslaughter charges, Ferman said she would likely withdraw the most serious charges, including attempted murder.

“It warrants re-examination,” she said. “DePaul was a victim of assault, and in his mind he was acting in self-defense.”

Another factor bolstering DePaul’s self-defense claim is that following the attack on him, he lost sight of the other juvenile suspect and became concerned.

“Based on all the information available to us now, it appears that under the circumstances his actions were reasonable,” Ferman said.

In recent months, countywide reports of harassment of cyclists on the river trail have risen, although no specific figures were available. Norristown police and county sheriff’s deputies have beefed up patrols since meeting with a cycling group in June.

“People riding bikes shouldn’t have to worry about things like this happening on the bike trail,” she said, and encouraged anyone running into trouble to contact local police immediately.

Besides police and deputies patrolling the recreational route, Ferman said authorities will employ stealthier enforcement methods.

“You’re going to see some undercover operations,” she said.

.

So what's going to happen to the little punk's old man, who was clearly at least knowledgeable, or complicit, or directing this chop shop operation? Dude needs to be ripped a new one.

After reading that the guy who fired the gun was kicked while riding I don't fault him at all. He was being assaulted by 2 thugs, not 1 but 2. If carrying a gun I would have done the same thing to these savages who have no respect for human life. All it takes is one smack of your head on the ground to change your life forever.

After reading that the guy who fired the gun was kicked while riding I don't fault him at all. He was being assaulted by 2 thugs, not 1 but 2. If carrying a gun I would have done the same thing to these savages who have no respect for human life. All it takes is one smack of your head on the ground to change your life forever.

The major beef with the gun guy is that he shot at their backs when they were 250 feet away and retreating -- he said so in his own words to the cops.

Had he shot them both while he was under attack, it would be self defense.

As it stands, he was just shooting at their backs because he was mad, scared, etc.


I was mugged and robbed at gunpoint in brooklyn a few years back. That experience hasn't changed my opinion of somebody who empties a clip at an attacker's back as the attacker is running away... after a simple assault and no major crime committed.

^ +1. And the guy emptied six rounds in a public place. No, there was NO excuse for what he did. It was the same as road rage- he completely over-reacted and let the adrenalin take control. Not a good combination for anyone who's carrying- permit or not. This could have been terribly catastrophic, let's not forget that.

The Thun Trail from Reading to Pottstown is part of the SRT so I figured I would add this incident.

Check the on-line Reading Eagle for Aug 1.

Man eludes search after stabbing teen riding a bike on Thun Trail in Cumru Township.

Here we have a 60 year old man trying to steal a bike from a 16-year old boy in a group of 5 youths riding bikes on the trail.

They are still looking for the man who knifed the kid.