Foo - Prius or Volt?

I'm torn. I like the idea of the Volt more, but I don't see it succeeding because its niche lies with the Prius which, if rumors hold, will be 20 kilodollars less than the Volt. So who does Chevy hope to grab with a $40,000 eco-car?

I'm torn. I like the idea of the Volt more, but I don't see it succeeding because its niche lies with the Prius which, if rumors hold, will be 20 kilodollars less than the Volt. So who does Chevy hope to grab with a $40,000 eco-car?

People who think the Escalade Hybrid is too big but don't want an Escape Hybrid because it's still an SUV, but need a hybrid to keep up with the Prius-owning Joneses and their eco-cred, but need to buy American? So maybe 100 people tops left in the US?

The Volt is a sham... they're only making it now for the buzz value.

If by Prius or Volt, you mean Camaro or Challenger, then I say Camaro.

http://image.motortrend.com/f/editorial/2010-camaro-mustang-challenger-the-best-ever-ponycars/15324575+cr1+re0+ar1/2010-chevrolet-camaro-ss-2010-ford-mustang-gt-2009-dodge-challenger.jpg

Regarding Prius (http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/review-2010-toyota-prius/).

So who does Chevy hope to grab with a $40,000 eco-car?People who they pissed off by taking their EV1s back and crushing them in the desert?

Well-monied persons into environmentalism for the trendiness aspect?

Fans of incredibly ugly vehicles?

People who haven't learned that GM couldn't make a quality vehicle to save itself?

Regarding Prius (http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/review-2010-toyota-prius/).

So the correct answer is "Honda Fit". Hah!

If by Prius or Volt, you mean Camaro or Challenger, then I say Camaro.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9f/1970_Dodge_Challenger_RT.jpg/300px-1970_Dodge_Challenger_RT.jpghttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8d/Chevrolet_Camaro.jpg/300px-Chevrolet_Camaro.jpgEff eye eff why.

People who think the Escalade Hybrid is too big but don't want an Escape Hybrid because it's still an SUV, but need a hybrid to keep up with the Prius-owning Joneses and their eco-cred, but need to buy American? So maybe 100 people tops left in the US?

The Volt is a sham... they're only making it now for the buzz value.

Toyota lost money on every Prius that was sold for the first 4 years. GM is, obviously, not in the position to do this which is too bad because if they could drop the cost down to near Prius levels, I think they take a bigger share of the market.

Ironically, the Prius and the Honda Insight were both developed in reaction to GM's EV-1 project. The Japanese auto makers thought that this was going to be the direction the big three were going to take and they felt behind. If GM had continued the EV-1 evolution, I'm sure they would be sitting in a much better position.

If GM had continued the EV-1 evolution, I'm sure they would be sitting in a much better position.Alas, that would require GM to not be completely brain-dead, and let's be honest, that's asking a lot.

Alas, that would require GM to not be completely brain-dead, and let's be honest, that's asking a lot.

There is some thinking that GM dropped the EV project in favor of the Hummer line. Yep, one of the most forward thinking vehicles on the road, one that could have done them well for years and years in favor of a dinosaur penis enhancement vehicle.

There is some thinking that GM dropped the EV project in favor of the Hummer line. Yep, one of the most forward thinking vehicles on the road, one that could have done them well for years and years in favor of a dinosaur penis enhancement vehicle.

Hummer... soon to be owned by a Chinese tractor company.

Can I correct my above statement to say that "GM is a sham"?

Honda Insight looks like a Prius. They both look like a$$.

If you are set on a Hybrid, get a Fusion.

Not ed rader

Honda Insight looks like a Prius. They both look like a$$.

If you are set on a Hybrid, get a Fusion.

Not ed rader

Wow. It gets a whopping 34 mpg. Some non-hybrids get better than that.

There is some thinking that GM dropped the EV project in favor of the Hummer line. Yep, one of the most forward thinking vehicles on the road, one that could have done them well for years and years in favor of a dinosaur penis enhancement vehicle.I wouldn't put it past them, but I don't think the timing lines up. I'm pretty sure GM's marketing of the Hummer to the public predates the EV1 by several years.

Christ, according to Wikipedia, GM had two different hybrid prototypes based on the EV1, one with a turbine charging the batteries, and one similar to current hybrids except with a small diesel engine instead of petrol. 60-100 MPG. :rolleyes:

Honda Insight looks like a Prius.I didn't know they were two different cars for the longest time. I just thought Toyota had restyled the Prius a bit. It wasn't until I saw the front and back of one that I did a double take. It's uncanny.

Also, HA:

http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/5701/2010mugenhondainsightpr.jpg

Mugen-tuned Insight. *snort*

I wouldn't put it past them, but I don't think the timing lines up. I'm pretty sure GM's marketing of the Hummer to the public predates the EV1 by several years.

Christ, according to Wikipedia, GM had two different hybrid prototypes based on the EV1, one with a turbine charging the batteries, and one similar to current hybrids except with a small diesel engine instead of petrol. 60-100 MPG. :rolleyes:

They were way ahead of the curve.

I think it wasn't the marketing of Hummer, it was the development of Hummer they wanted to concentrate on, and as we all know, the development of hummers is really important. :innocent:

Wow. It gets a whopping 34 mpg. Some non-hybrids get better than that.You think that's bad? GM makes a 4WD Silverado hybrid. Whopping 20 MPG.

Just imagine: Big truck, Skyjacker kit, Super Swampers, and one of these babies:

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/images/clean_air_yellow.jpg

They were way ahead of the curve.Rick Wagoner apparently regrets axing the EV1 project. Too bad that thought process didn't come up ten years ago


I think it wasn't the marketing of Hummer, it was the development of Hummer they wanted to concentrate on, and as we all know, the development of hummers is really important. :innocent:I still can't believe how short-sighted people were then (and now). Manufacturers and consumers both. I wasn't even alive during the whole 70s oil crisis and Rise Of The Compacts, but I was aware of it and the lessons presented.

You think that's bad? GM makes a 4WD Silverado hybrid. Whopping 20 MPG.

Just imagine: Big truck, Skyjacker kit, Super Swampers, and one of these babies:

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/images/clean_air_yellow.jpg

This is my favorite poser-mobile. It has "Hybrid" plastered all over it so people can know you're a ******.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/11/10/automobiles/533-escalade.jpg

Regarding Prius (http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/review-2010-toyota-prius/).The guy who wrote this review must also write for Fox News, so negative and inaccurate that he is obvious, plus he seemed obliged to mention Al Gore's name as a down side of the Prius. I'm sorry I lost a perfectly good 5 minutes of my day reading it.

I have an '04 Prius I bought new, it is what it is, designed for what I wanted, so I'm pretty happy with the car. The best thing is that it is a Toyota, so it has been perfect since I drove it off the dealer's lot. I average 50 mpg and 4 people are comfortable in it.

The guy who wrote this review must also write for Fox News, so negative and inaccurate that he is obvious, plus he seemed obliged to mention Al Gore's name as a down side of the Prius. I'm sorry I lost a perfectly good 5 minutes of my day reading it.

I have an '04 Prius I bought new, it is what it is, designed for what I wanted, so I'm pretty happy with the car. The best thing is that it is a Toyota, so it has been perfect since I drove it off the dealer's lot. I average 50 mpg and 4 people are comfortable in it.To be fair, it's written from an automobile/driving enthusiast point of view.

If someone is looking for a car that simply gets them from point A to point B with Toyota Reliability™ and a minimum of fuss and getting in the way (also scaring the ever-living **** out of people in parking lots), it'll do all those things just fine.

I'm torn. I like the idea of the Volt more, but I don't see it succeeding because its niche lies with the Prius which, if rumors hold, will be 20 kilodollars less than the Volt. So who does Chevy hope to grab with a $40,000 eco-car?

Um.....

Nobody.

Brilliant marketing strategy.

And now you know why they're friggin bankrupt.

Um.....

Nobody.

Brilliant marketing strategy.

And now you know why they're friggin bankrupt.

It's too bad, because it's a brilliant idea, much like the EV-1 was.

Remember this guy?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9d/Toyota_RAV4_EV--DC.jpg/800px-Toyota_RAV4_EV--DC.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_RAV4_EV)

You can't compare it to the Prius, it's a totally different segment of car. You can operate it completely on electricity 100% of the time, unlike the Prius. It's new technology currently not in mass production, so it will cost more at first.

It's comparable to the public. It's an eco-friendly, 4 door, small-midsized, 5 passenger car. Those that are looking in this market are generally looking at the Prius, a car $20,000 cheaper.

Again, Toyota lost money for the first 4 years because their target market was people looking at $20,000 cars. At this price, the fit and trim is comparable to other $20,000 cars, even though the drivetrain was unlike anything else in the field. The Volt won't have the trim and fit of a $40,000 cars so the only thing it has is the unique drivetrain which is the opposite of how the Prius is and was, sold.

The Volt is a pure electric car with a gasoline engine as a generator. The gas engine is not part of the power train, it is a generator.

The Silverado and the Tahoe are dual drivetrain vehicles. They can run with the electric subsystem moving the wheels, or both subsystems. For a pickup truck, it gets excellent gas milage without sacrificing power. To boot, at long lights, it kills the gasoline engine so gas isn't wasted unless the electric drivetrain is nearly out of battery power.

The Prius is also a dual drivetrain vehicle, but has a lot of design differences. Instead of a design with an electrical drivetrain added, instead it was designed from the ground up for two drivetrains. It has no alternator, no torque convertor, no starter, and no gears (uses a CVT).

Any one of the vehicles listed above is not a bad choice.

It's too bad, because it's a brilliant idea, much like the EV-1 was.

Wrong. A $25K-$30K electric car is a brilliant idea. A $40K electric car is a question nobody asked unless gas goes to $5+/gallon in the US, and even then it's a stretch.

On the other hand the $20K-$30K Insight and Prius hybrids that get 45-55 mpg are brilliant. They'll sell the **** out of those cars. We're considering a Prius. Even that's tough, I can buy a brand new comparably equipped Honda Accord 4 cyl gas car for $4K less. $4K buys a load of gasoline. But we may do it for a couple of reasons.

How did you know GM was friggin doomed to bankruptcy? When they were touting the Volt as their savior.

Right.

By the way, the Insight feels like a $20K car. The Prius, which is about $4K more across equipment levels feels like a $35K car. Drove the Prius. Slow of course, but plush. The interior is borderline Lexus it's so nice. That makes the Prius a no-brainer if I go hybrid.

Remember this guy?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9d/Toyota_RAV4_EV--DC.jpg/800px-Toyota_RAV4_EV--DC.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_RAV4_EV)

OK, but I'll give you this
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/55/GSFRChargeDoorQuarter.jpg

My first job in my career we had an electric ranger in ~99-00. Quick, but went about 90 miles on a 8 hour charge lol. And it was bright red.


So who does Chevy hope to grab with a $40,000 eco-car?

People in Detroit?
Seriously, most people in detroit would be able to buy the car for $30k after the employee purchase plan, and be able to keep up with their neighbors who work at Toyota in Ann Arbor or have no family connections to automakers and buy Priuses cause they wanted to.

where's the option for Wrangler?

Bmw m3

Wrong. A $25K-$30K electric car is a brilliant idea. A $40K electric car is a question nobody asked unless gas goes to $5+/gallon in the US, and even then it's a stretch.

On the other hand the $20K-$30K Insight and Prius hybrids that get 45-55 mpg are brilliant. They'll sell the **** out of those cars. We're considering a Prius. Even that's tough, I can buy a brand new comparably equipped Honda Accord 4 cyl gas car for $4K less. $4K buys a load of gasoline. But we may do it for a couple of reasons.

How did you know GM was friggin doomed to bankruptcy? When they were touting the Volt as their savior.

Right.
I meant the design is great. The cost is outrageous.


By the way, the Insight feels like a $20K car. The Prius, which is about $4K more across equipment levels feels like a $35K car. Drove the Prius. Slow of course, but plush. The interior is borderline Lexus it's so nice. That makes the Prius a no-brainer if I go hybrid.
Did you drive the base model? I've heard that the Prius can cost around $35K with options.


OK, but I'll give you this
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/55/GSFRChargeDoorQuarter.jpg

My first job in my career we had an electric ranger in ~99-00. Quick, but went about 90 miles on a 8 hour charge lol. And it was bright red.



People in Detroit?
Seriously, most people in detroit would be able to buy the car for $30k after the employee purchase plan, and be able to keep up with their neighbors who work at Toyota in Ann Arbor or have no family connections to automakers and buy Priuses cause they wanted to.

I drove a 1988 Chevy S-10 for a while. 2 wheel drive, no frills, 4 cylinder, and got 35 mpg on the highway. What a great truck that was.

Drove the Prius. Slow of course, but plush.
That will be GM's opening. The Volt is suppose to have better acceleration than the Prius. The big question is if there are enough people willing to pay a premium for a car both better performing and greener than the Prius. The price of gas two years from now will be a big factor, of course.

I'd love to have a car that used zero gas for my regular driving, but could still do long trips without dying 100 miles from home. Make it affordable while you're at it, but I certainly don't need the cheapest car on the road. We'll see what my options are in a couple of years. The Volt is a distinct possibility.

http://www.enerdel.com/

small 2 door sedan, japanese, used, under 10k

get it?

These are a little strange (well, maybe more than a little strange), but they are all electric and sold in the US. Zap

http://www.zapworld.com/

Take this 1970's Datsun electric car to the drag strip? Wait, What? This is fun to watch.

http://www.opb.org/programs/ofg/videos/view/56-Electric-Drag-Racing

That will be GM's opening. The Volt is suppose to have better acceleration than the Prius.

Nobody will care.

And that's what kills me about car enthusiasts and about magazines like Road and Track and Car and Driver. They think the whole world is a bunch of boy racer morons like they are. Incorrect. I sold cars for a decade, and trust me on this, 99% of the buying public wouldn't know a 0-60 or 1/4 mile time from their arsehole. Ditto for skidpad G's and braking performance. I mean, they are on serious crack with that thinking. That applies to motorheads like me and you. The vast majority of buyers have other priorities.

Some non-hybrids get better than that.

Yeah, like every Honda Civic made before...maybe ever. :lol:

If I were to ever get a hybrid, I think I'd want one of these ugly little critters:

http://www.edmunds.com/media/roadtests/longterm/honda.insight/1-02.insight.ltupict.500.jpg

I worked at a Honda dealership when those came out, and I really liked them. Reminded me of my CRX, but with considerably better fuel economy (which is good, because my CRX got great fuel economy). I love the fact that it only seats two, although that probably ruled it out for a lot of people back then.

And that's what kills me about car enthusiasts and about magazines like Road and Track and Car and Driver. They think the whole world is a bunch of boy racer morons like they are. Incorrect. I sold cars for a decade, and trust me on this, 99% of the buying public wouldn't know a 0-60 or 1/4 mile time from their arsehole. Ditto for skidpad G's and braking performance. I mean, they are on serious crack with that thinking. That applies to motorheads like me and you. The vast majority of buyers have other priorities.

yep. The Volt will fit into very few people's priorities.

yep. The Volt will fit into very few people's priorities.

That's really all I'm saying. Kudos to GM for R&D, but that won't float their boat. They need an Accord/Camry killer. Ford is getting traction with the Fusion now....and Ford is starting to make money.

Yeah, like every Honda Civic made before...maybe ever. :lol:

If I were to ever get a hybrid, I think I'd want one of these ugly little critters:

http://www.edmunds.com/media/roadtests/longterm/honda.insight/1-02.insight.ltupict.500.jpg

I worked at a Honda dealership when those came out, and I really liked them. Reminded me of my CRX, but with considerably better fuel economy (which is good, because my CRX got great fuel economy). I love the fact that it only seats two, although that probably ruled it out for a lot of people back then.

I love those things. Aluminum bodies. Super light-weight. Quick and great gas mileage.

I always liked it in this color.
http://i43.tinypic.com/2whk0nt.jpg

Don't ask me why, but there is something about the hi tech of that new Prius that really appeals to me. That and the fun of hyper-mile-ing with the car to get 60+ mpg.

The old Insight (Oldsight?) was pretty cool, I have to say. It was very much a spiritual successor to the CRX/Del Sol. Supposedly handled really well for such a car, too.

I'd love to rip the hybrid drivetrain out of one and replace it with a simple, efficient Honda 4.

You think that's bad? GM makes a 4WD Silverado hybrid. Whopping 20 MPG.

Just imagine: Big truck, Skyjacker kit, Super Swampers, and one of these babies:

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/images/clean_air_yellow.jpg

Yeah, but let's think for a second. If you're a contractor and you have a Silverado and your wife has a Yaris, what's more effective, the truck being switched for a hybrid version or the Yaris going from 55mpg to 57?

If you're getting 55 MPG out of a Yaris, the EPA would like a word.

As for the Silverado, it's a large, 4WD, 6L V8 truck. After the weight of that electric powerplant and all the associated batteries and mechanics, you're getting 2-6 MPG over the same, non-hybrid truck. You can get that by driving more carefully, and saving whatever the price premium is for the hybrid.

The big hybrid trucks and SUVs are feel-good items.

The old Insight (Oldsight?) was pretty cool, I have to say. It was very much a spiritual successor to the CRX/Del Sol. Supposedly handled really well for such a car, too.

I'd love to rip the hybrid drivetrain out of one and replace it with a simple, efficient Honda 4.

One of the mechanics at that dealership who had driven one said it reminded him very much of an old CRX HF. Not terribly quick, but still lots of fun. Heck, my Si wasn't that quick, but it was easily the most enjoyable car I've ever driven. I remember a friend and I could lift the rear end of my CRX off the ground with ease. Once we accidentally set it down on his foot, and he said it only hurt a little. :lol:

Btw, lately I've really been wanting one of these:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3023/2851109139_65abfddd3b.jpg

:D

whoa whoa whoa... is that a pic of the infamous LL?!?