Road Cycling - Snobbery/Insularity

I've been mountain biking for years, but am a newcomer road biking and to this forum. In a relatively short time, I've come to a few conclusions:
1) I love road cycling.
2) I want little or nothing to do with other roadies.

The reasons for the first should be obvious. Reasons for the second have a lot to do with the attitude of some cyclists.
To illustrate the difference, I'll compare cycling to another hobby of mine-sports cars/amateur racing.
Car people appreciate fine automobiles. We are quick to drool over the latest Ferrari or Lotus. We also appreciate less expensive cars that have a high fun quotient. A well-maintained 80s RX-7 will not attract the attention that the Ferrari will, but will still be appreciated. Also, no one will be sneered at for owning the cheaper car.
In the roadie world, other bikers' tolerance of a rider seems to be based to a large extent on the equipment they have. Someone riding a new carbon gee-gawed bike with the "appropriate" gear is more likely to be treated with respect than someone riding an older, cheaper bike. Owners of less expensive bikes are likely to be sneered at, at the very least.
In amateur racing, what matters is that the person is out there doing it. The only real pre-requisite is a love of the sport. People who make silly mistakes are corrected, but no one makes fun of the bottom finishers. Here, I hear frequent comments about who is and is not a serious cyclist. Beginners seem to be viewed with annoyance at best.
In all, road bikers seem to form the most insular and intolerant community of enthusiasts I have run across. In fact, I've got a few predictions: someone will suggest I just go away. Someone else will criticize me for loving cars as well as bikes.
Perhaps amidst all this, someone can offer a reason why I should make an effort to join other cyclists, rather than just riding by myself.

I think you have just met the wrong people.

I haven't really experienced that type of snobbery, but I hear about it on this forum fairly regularly.
Upstate NY, (crappy weather) doesn't have much of a bicycle population, perhaps that's why I haven't seen it here. Admittedly, I ride a not-cool bike.

I guess everyone needs to have something in their life that says he/she is special and should have respect. I think those individuals, who are practicing snobs, probably feel inferior, are desperate to escape their existence and are generally shallow.

One of my life's lessons: "Anyone can be an a$$hole, but it takes strength to be kind."

I think that if you want to find other friendly roadies to ride with, you'll find them. I agree that there's a lot of 'tude out there amongst roadies. But many others are very friendly and helpful. Not sure where you're writing from, but check out some local clubs or see if any of your local bike shops sponsor rides. Don't throw in the towel just yet.

I found it funny that when riding my mnt bike on the road (my pre-roadie days) while I waved at every cyclist I passed, I would get roughly 10% feedback from roadies. The next day I rode a road bike and got about 70% lol.

Things are far different now, lots of us 'roadies' wave and say hello to folks, and act as the ambasadors that all of us should.

I had a cheap road bike, old arse helmet and a camel back (old school one, that ONLY mnt bikers wore). Was met with lukewarm enthusiasm. Couple months later on the first ride with my new bike the front tire exploded (I'm thinking twisted tube from the shop) while I was in the middle of the pack that was 3-wide. I yelled flat and rode it out straight, didnt take myself or anyone else out, the group waited (rarirty) and I have been 'in' ever since.

Point of my story is on the road your life (literaly) is in the hands of the guys around you, especially when pacelining at 30+. Sometimes takes a bit to prove yourself trustworthy. This just isnt a concern when mnt. biking. One of the most easily recognizable ways to tell if a guy isnt going to kill you is if he's dressed and riding a nice bike. Hey, the bike looks nice so he obviously hasnt crashed it, if he can keep up then he must know somewhat what he's doing. Not a perfect system, but perhaps it adds some insight into what those snobish roadies are thinking.

I don't really think that roadies are all that snobbish. I think that what comes across as distain may just be "focus". A lot of "racer-type" folks are out riding with a purpose --- to get fitter, faster, and just better. If you sat around with them before or after a ride, you'd probably get a better impression. The fact of the matter is that when you're racing in a car there's no opportunity to talk to the other drivers. On a bike, it's a bit different. A lot of folks seem to expect to talk to other cyclists as they pass each other. Do you expect the same thing from other drivers?

What you say about amateur car racing (assuming that's what you were talking about) applies equally to amateur bike racing. Racer's don't really care what you're riding. Most of them only care that you're out there trying your best, too! You will, of course, get more respect if you can finish somewhere other than OTB.

I've been mountain biking for years, but am a newcomer road biking and to this forum. In a relatively short time, I've come to a few conclusions:
1) I love road cycling.
2) I want little or nothing to do with other roadies.

The reasons for the first should be obvious. Reasons for the second have a lot to do with the attitude of some cyclists.
To illustrate the difference, I'll compare cycling to another hobby of mine-sports cars/amateur racing.
Car people appreciate fine automobiles. We are quick to drool over the latest Ferrari or Lotus. We also appreciate less expensive cars that have a high fun quotient. A well-maintained 80s RX-7 will not attract the attention that the Ferrari will, but will still be appreciated. Also, no one will be sneered at for owning the cheaper car.
In the roadie world, other bikers' tolerance of a rider seems to be based to a large extent on the equipment they have. Someone riding a new carbon gee-gawed bike with the "appropriate" gear is more likely to be treated with respect than someone riding an older, cheaper bike. Owners of less expensive bikes are likely to be sneered at, at the very least.
In amateur racing, what matters is that the person is out there doing it. The only real pre-requisite is a love of the sport. People who make silly mistakes are corrected, but no one makes fun of the bottom finishers. Here, I hear frequent comments about who is and is not a serious cyclist. Beginners seem to be viewed with annoyance at best.
In all, road bikers seem to form the most insular and intolerant community of enthusiasts I have run across. In fact, I've got a few predictions: someone will suggest I just go away. Someone else will criticize me for loving cars as well as bikes.
Perhaps amidst all this, someone can offer a reason why I should make an effort to join other cyclists, rather than just riding by myself.


I have to say that I have felt like you from time to time. When I rode I ocassionally felt hated by automobiles and hated by other cyclists. ONe time I met one of the rude cyclists in a non-cycling venue, and you know what? He was a jerk off the bike too.

I have been fortuante enough to find a great group of cyclists to ride with for the past couple of years. We are kind of a mixed up bunch riding all different set ups, but we all have fun. I still run into the snobbery you write about, and I read it here on the forums almost daily. However, cycling is a great soprt, and there are great people out there doing it. As an earlier poster said, don't give up on it yet.


As for your quote: "In all, road bikers seem to form the most insular and intolerant community of enthusiasts I have run across." . . . Have you ever tried golf?

I love hearing it when people mention RX-7s on non-car message boards.

Proud owner of a 1990 Turbo II and a 1989 GXL autocross beater. :)

when I re-started serious riding 2 years ago (BTW serious cycling is rying to fit in 2K miles/year with a high stress job) I was amazed at the number of fellow roadies who ignored my 'wave/greeting" But I find myself now doing the same. Why? I think its because I am so focused on what I am doing that I just don't notice much else. I focus on my body, my mind, my thoughts (great stress reliever, and have solved many work problems on the road) to the point that I ignore everything else -except traffic.

I often pass someone who waved before I have a chance to wave back.

BTW- I'm a 'lone wolf' rider and like it that way.

Perhaps amidst all this, someone can offer a reason why I should make an effort to join other cyclists, rather than just riding by myself.

expending 30% less energy is always nice. plus, it's safer. yeah, some cyclists are schmucks. there are bad apples in every single group on the planet. where i am, the group ride is great. there are some of the "hardcore" types who look down their nose at you, but i honestly could not possibly care less what they think about me. who is more pathetic, the rider on the steel frame schwinn trying to get into the sport or the carbon-fibered self-appointed uber-cyclist who demeans the first one? anyone who votes the former should go play in traffic. where i am, there are plenty of guys and gals who make a group ride worth doing. i'm sure it's the same where you are.

Seasoned road cyclists sometimes steer clear of new riders. This in many cases is an act of self-preservation, especially on public group rides that sometimes attract riders who have no idea what they are getting into. Just as one would not go out on a golf course for 18 holes with people you have never met if you have never played golf before, new cyclist should not show up at a fast group ride and expect to be coddled along. Seasoned cyclists and racers are there for a fast, safe training ride. And if one or two squirrelly riders show up who have no experience riding in a pace line or can’t hold a wheel, well it make for some tight sphincters. The people who do it day in and day out want to do return home in one piece.

When the Performance bike shop opened up in my area a few years back, the manager knew most of the fast guys and asked if they wanted to use the shop as a staging point for winter training rides. This worked out well at first. But soon, guys started showing up with their brand new matching outfits and bikes, who had never been on a group ride before in their life and who, as far as I could tell, never trained on there own. After several near-wrecks descending steep hills with a group of 25 or more rides, it was decided to force a split of the ride. The front guys turned up a brutally steep climb and hammered as hard as they could resulting in a nice group of about 8 guys who then did a 3 hour ride without further incident. Invariable, some of the most dangerous riders in the group were switchover mountain bikers. Several had the fitness to hang at the front, but had no clue how to behave in a pack, making radical line changes without checking to see if somebody was already there, etc – the usual dumb stuff.

So, if you want to be accepted, show up in shape to hang, and stay in the back and out of the way until you know what you are doing.

This is my first year of road riding, and I have felt the same way at some rides, but others (within the same bike club) were very casual, even though the riders were just as fast (from my perspective behind them). I've never noticed any snobbery about someone's bike at any ride (other than the good natured ribbing I get for riding a triple). Heck, one guy rides his hybrid at the same speed as the rodies and is treated as an equal by them even though he's riding a mid-90's steel hybrid with toe-clips.

I definately notice people (well, the bikes actually) who ride really nice rides before the fat-tires, but that's the same thing as the ferrari situation you mentioned above. I agree with the others that you should just keep looking for another group of riders until you find one that is more accepting.

FWIW, the group of snobs I ran into was on a "fast" ride, so the paceline trust issue might have been what I was experiencing. It doesn't bother me, because I DON'T have the skill to ride in a paceline, which is why I hang off the back (1 bike length) of the last guy in the paceline until I get dropped.

I'm not going to defend the entire population of roadies, lord knows
we have our share of a$$holes.
In a group ride/race situation I believe that most riders keep a distance
until they are sure that the newbie isn't gonna kill someone with his
bike handling skills.
Wanna make a statement? show up for the group ride on a 25yo bike
and keep up with the pack.
I brought my 85 Trek (all original parts except tires) into the LBS,
front wheel in the rack next to a Colnago C40.
Colnago didn't get a second look, but the Trek with the Nuovo record
components got lots of oohs and aahs. BTW the trek at todays prices
would cost about 1/4th the price of the nago both tricked out with
the same kit. . .
Marty

Perhaps amidst all this, someone can offer a reason why I should make an effort to join other cyclists, rather than just riding by myself.

I don´t mean to be argumentative but maybe cycling attracts people who are by their nature loners and may not have good interpersonal skills- I admit I like to be on my own sometimes-you don´t seem to be much different-you have already convinced yourself that other cyclists are not worth bothering with

H Roark, you've noticed something that very few on this forum will admit is true. In the mid 70's to early 90's I didn't detect much "class warfare" or snobbery amongst cyclists. It would be interesting to explore what might have contributed to the changes. Though many other cyclists on this thread make a valid point that most cyclists aren't any more snobbish than any one else. But, with that being true, there still seems to be many more than you'd expect.

Actually, I think that the snobbery sometimes works both ways.

Bicycling is an unusual sport in that an ordinary guy, if he sets his mind to it, can usually manage to buy the equivlent of an Indianapolis race car. $4,000 or $5,000 won't buy you much of a boat or a top notch motorcycle, but it will get you an extreamly nice road bike. That's within the do-able range for lots of people so the bar is set pretty high if you want other people to admire what you have.

On the other hand, there's a kind of unwritten rule about having equipment that's too good. If you actually show up with a $4,000 bike, you'd better be able to make it go or the equipment envy police are going to mock you all the more.

The bottom line is that the people who like you will continue to be friendly regardless of what you ride and the skoffers will find something to carp about no matter what you do. Ride what you feel you can afford, do what you think's best for you, and let other people's opinions roll off of your back.

There are all kinds in road cycling as in any other area of life.

I find friendly roadies and snobs, although I do admit there is a higher incidence of snobbery than in some other areas.

Last week, I was riding the trail from Breckenridge to Frisco, CO, when I heard a lot of conversation behind me. Not a "on your left," or a "Hi!"

3 roadies passed me, immediately riding triple on the trail, continuously ignoring others, and acting as if they owned the world. Two ladies and a gent, very well equipped, expensive bikes and ALL the gear. They were strong riders. As there was a ferocious headwind, I stuck with them for awhile, the three of them forming a good wind break.

This is a MUP trail with a lot of newbies, and 3 abreast is simply not appropriate, as it scares the newbies, despite the expertise of the roadies.

They finally turned off, and I continued, where I had many other roadies wave and nod.

The next day, while I was climbing Vail Pass, I formed a "partnership" with a lady roadie who was extremely nice, and we rode together up the pass.

So, there are all kinds out there.

Normally, I ride alone out of preference!

Interesting that 531Aussie mentioned the tri-geeks. I came to serious cycling (by Red Baron's definition) from triathlon. In my experience, triathlons are very supportive, friendly events. Unless you're a pro, the competition is more against yourself than the other racers and so you get a lot of encouragement during the race. There's a sense of shared suffering and the knowledge that everyone has a weak discipline (or in my case, two!).

On the other hand, triathletes tend to train alone and since drafting is illegal in most races, few bother to learn paceline skills. I learned because I found out that it's a lot more fun to blaze along at 28mph in a big group than to grind away by yourself, studying your thumbs, at 22mph. Plus, it helped me break an hour in the bike split in my last tri.

So, what to do? I guess what I'm going to start doing is waving at every bike I see. From the Colnagos to the Huffys and everybody in between. If they don't wave back, their loss.

Do people here, while driving a car, wave at every other car they pass?

I don't and I don't feel that I have to acknowledge every other bicycle I see, either. Don't get me wrong, I'm a friendly guy and usually try to return a wave or greeting, but I don't run to newsgroups every time some a-hole on a bike ticks me off.

Do people here, while driving a car, wave at every other car they pass?

I don't and I don't feel that I have to acknowledge every other bicycle I see, either.

Ya know, I grew up in a town of 1500 people and when I was a kid, you pretty much did wave to every car you passed. Now I live in a city of a million people but I bet there's only 1500 cyclists here. So, it's like a small town on two wheels.

Thanks, Trsnrtr. You've convinced me of my own good idea.

While some of your observations are right now, I think that is a pretty broad statement to make that most roadies are snobs. Granted I have had a few bad experinces, but the thing you have to remember is not to let snobby roadies ruin your time. You ride because you want to, not because you need approval. Good luck!

plus an objectivist wouldn't care or make a big deal about what you posted about anyways...if that makes sense


-------------------------

I've been mountain biking for years, but am a newcomer road biking and to this forum. In a relatively short time, I've come to a few conclusions:
1) I love road cycling.
2) I want little or nothing to do with other roadies.

The reasons for the first should be obvious. Reasons for the second have a lot to do with the attitude of some cyclists.
To illustrate the difference, I'll compare cycling to another hobby of mine-sports cars/amateur racing.
Car people appreciate fine automobiles. We are quick to drool over the latest Ferrari or Lotus. We also appreciate less expensive cars that have a high fun quotient. A well-maintained 80s RX-7 will not attract the attention that the Ferrari will, but will still be appreciated. Also, no one will be sneered at for owning the cheaper car.
In the roadie world, other bikers' tolerance of a rider seems to be based to a large extent on the equipment they have. Someone riding a new carbon gee-gawed bike with the "appropriate" gear is more likely to be treated with respect than someone riding an older, cheaper bike. Owners of less expensive bikes are likely to be sneered at, at the very least.
In amateur racing, what matters is that the person is out there doing it. The only real pre-requisite is a love of the sport. People who make silly mistakes are corrected, but no one makes fun of the bottom finishers. Here, I hear frequent comments about who is and is not a serious cyclist. Beginners seem to be viewed with annoyance at best.
In all, road bikers seem to form the most insular and intolerant community of enthusiasts I have run across. In fact, I've got a few predictions: someone will suggest I just go away. Someone else will criticize me for loving cars as well as bikes.
Perhaps amidst all this, someone can offer a reason why I should make an effort to join other cyclists, rather than just riding by myself.

I appreciate the feedback, and think most of you are right. Snobs are everywhere, it just seems as though quite a few gravitate towards road cycling. There is a contrast between the racing community(cars), the mountain bike community, and the road community. The danger a newbie poses in a pack is a legitimate concern, although I don't have much interest in the "serious" training rides. For me, the competition is first and always against myself, against being winded and tired, and against the urge to stop or slow down. Other riders are incidental to this. Still, a relaxed group ride would be fun, if I can find such a thing. I suppose it's just a question of looking in the right places.
On a side note- I did an interview yesterday with a family that is biking along the Lewis and Clark trail. 50 miles a day for the whole family, done for the most part on older bikes. (A Cannondale hybrid, an Old Fuji road bike, a couple of Bianchis, and one I can't remember the name of.) Both parents were doctors, so I doubt that cost was the reason for the older bikes-they just liked them. At any rate, they were very pleasant people, and I was impressed by each of them.

I once had a friend go by me in his car, honk and yell hello and later tell me I was a "just another cycling snob" for not responding and waving back.

I respectfully pointed out that I was doing almost 40 mph down a very busy highway hill and any disruption in concentration and focus could have been disastrous, particulary since some fool was honking and yelling at me.

I consider myself very social on my bike and try to be friendly to everyone. But there are limits.

55/Rad

While some of your observations are right now, I think that is a pretty broad statement to make that most roadies are snobs. Granted I have had a few bad experinces, but the thing you have to remember is not to let snobby roadies ruin your time. You ride because you want to, not because you need approval. Good luck!

plus an objectivist wouldn't care or make a big deal about what you posted about anyways...if that makes sense


-------------------------
You're the first to catch the Rand reference. I've used that user name since college, when I very definitely was an Objectivist. These days, Rand's principles still inform my thinking, but I'm certainly not a Randroid. I still love the Fountainhead, though.
You're right that a true Ojectivist wouldn't care(or would at least claim not to). In fact, I have yet to personaly suffer the sneers, but I see them happening to others, and find it irritating. Snobbery of that sort is sort of Peter Keating-esque, don't you think? The real Roark, I suspect, would never even consider riding in a group. Or doing anything in a group, for that matter.

I once had a friend go by me in his car, honk and yell hello and later tell me I was a "just another cycling snob" for not responding and waving back.

I respectfully pointed out that I was doing almost 40 mph down a very busy highway hill and any disruption in concentration and focus could have been disastrous, particulary since some fool was honking and yelling at me.

I consider myself very social on my bike and try to be friendly to everyone. But there are limits.

55/Rad

Oh, yeah. I forgot about the safety thing. Okay, I'll shut up now.

http://us.st5.yimg.com/store4.yimg.com/I/demotivators_1793_9870390

Andrew

I consider myself very social on my bike and try to be friendly to everyone. But there are limits.


Same here. On a hard ride I may be suffering too much to even raise an arm to wave. :eek:

what about this example: a guy has a 15 year old mtn. bike and rides on the local trail but never talks to anyone or does anything other than ride his bike and keep to himself. no one cares, right? now, take that same guy and put him on a $2500 trek with a $300 biking outfit and i'm willing to bet people will think he's a snob.

I just ride by myself. No worries, no cares. Just me.

I do make a point to wave at anyone on a bike (that I notice). Most ignore me, even if looking right at me, but who cares? I also wave at every car that passes safely ( I ride in rural areas, so it's not that big a deal).

A couple months ago, I came up behind a big group on a commonly used boulevard. They were obviously "serious" meaning high-end bikes, hairless legs, uniforms etc... A couple of them snickered as I rode around them on the left on my low-end frame (with Ultegra everything, but you can't tell in motion, right?) hairy legs, and plain white jersey. Reinforced my choice to ride alone.

Still rode by them, though :p

Thanks, Trsnrtr. You've convinced me of my own good idea.

And if I ever pass you on the road, I'll be sure to wave to ya!

P.S. If you are truly appreciative, you can send a few bucks to my Paypal account.
:)

[QUOTE=Trsnrtr]Do people here, while driving a car, wave at every other car they pass?

/QUOTE]
Odd you mention this, if its a pickup- well- Yep we most often do.

Do people here, while driving a car, wave at every other car they pass?

Odd you mention this, if its a pickup- well- Yep we most often do.

I don't know about where you live, but in my part of the US (Central Illinois), my arm would get tired if I waved at every pickup truck!

i got a short ride in before work today. on the way out, i passed a woman named eva, smiled and waved and said "hop on my wheel." she said "i was planning on going easy to day, but what the heck." we then passed a guy named jean and i smiled and waved and inivited him to join us. he did. we had a fun paceline screaming along the laksehore in montreal.

both these people were strangers. eva, riding a specialized dolce elite, shops at my lbs. she's a former sports medicine professor who's gone into the sports beverage bottling business. she's been riding for three years. jean, on a trek 2200, runs his own enterprise applications integration consulting firm. he's been riding for two months. we had a nice chat, i pulled about 80 per cent of the way. i'll see them again on the road sometime and wave.

too bad i'm one of those snobbnish, insular roadies.

get mental help

Interesting that 531Aussie mentioned the tri-geeks. I came to serious cycling (by Red Baron's definition) from triathlon. In my experience, triathlons are very supportive, friendly events.

I didn't express that point very well. I didn't mean to say that triathletes were snobs, I meant to say that, when mountain bikers and triathletes started mixing up the roadie population, they weren't to know what the normal etiquette was, so I think that's when people stopped waving to each other, which has contributed to the perception that there are more snobs around. There's still the same amount of snobs out there. :)

I agree with your perception of triathlons. After cycle racing for a fews years, only at club level, a friend got me to do a team triathlon, where I obviously did the bike leg. Well, being used to the relatively inhospitable scene of the velodrome and the criterium circuit, I could not believe how friendly the triathletes were to each other and to me.

If anyone says there are no snob roadies, then they must be one of them :)

I didn't express that point very well. I didn't mean to say that triathletes were snobs, I meant to say that, when mountain bikers and triathletes started mixing up the roadie population, they weren't to know what the normal etiquette was, so I think that's when people stopped waving to each other, which has contributed to the perception that there are more snobs around. There's still the same amount of snobs out there. :)

I agree with your perception of triathlons. After cycle racing for a fews years, only at club level, a friend got me to do a team triathlon, where I obviously did the bike leg. Well, being used to the relatively inhospitable scene of the velodrome and the criterium circuit, I could not believe how friendly the triathletes were to each other and to me.

If anyone says there are no snob roadies, then they must be one of them :)

percentage-wise, i agree that there are the same amount of snobs out there.

i gotta get me a runner and a swimmer and do a team tri sometime...(i'd do it all, but i'm just not built for running, and i haven't swam (swum?) in years!!

I do most of my riding in my neighborhood, sometimes I drive to a different neighborhood but I usually just ride alone. Walkers wave, joggers wave, MTB and hybrid riders wave, but all I get from road bikers is stared at. It's just plain wierd.

I do most of my riding in my neighborhood, sometimes I drive to a different neighborhood but I usually just ride alone. Walkers wave, joggers wave, MTB and hybrid riders wave, but all I get from road bikers is stared at. It's just plain wierd.

Yep, it's true I tells ya!!

Sometimes on really hot days I ride in a tank-top (we call them "singlets"), and I tell ya, absolutely NOBODY speaks to me. Normally, when I'm wearing all the "right stuff", a few roadies will at least grunt in my direction.

Why would the same guys say "g'day" one day, then snob me off the next day because I'm riding in a singlet?

This kinda proves the snob-factor to me. :)

i usually get waves from 75% of the guys coming from the opposite direction on one of my regular rides. then again, i'm not usually there during "peak riding times" (i only get sundays and mondays off, and i'm usually too wiped on sundays to do much of anything).

I appreciate the feedback, and think most of you are right. Snobs are everywhere, it just seems as though quite a few gravitate towards road cycling. There is a contrast between the racing community(cars), the mountain bike community, and the road community. The danger a newbie poses in a pack is a legitimate concern, although I don't have much interest in the "serious" training rides. For me, the competition is first and always against myself, against being winded and tired, and against the urge to stop or slow down. Other riders are incidental to this. Still, a relaxed group ride would be fun, if I can find such a thing. I suppose it's just a question of looking in the right places.
On a side note- I did an interview yesterday with a family that is biking along the Lewis and Clark trail. 50 miles a day for the whole family, done for the most part on older bikes. (A Cannondale hybrid, an Old Fuji road bike, a couple of Bianchis, and one I can't remember the name of.) Both parents were doctors, so I doubt that cost was the reason for the older bikes-they just liked them. At any rate, they were very pleasant people, and I was impressed by each of them.


Cycling has many sub populations even among people who are reasonably "serious" cyclists. What I mean by serious cyclist is someone who knows something about handling the bike, basic repair, who routinely rides the bike for exercise or recreation or anything other reason, and knows some basic survival skills like recognizing a potential right hook from a motorist or an incipient case of heat exhaustion.

With the advent of trails, we have a whole new class of cyclists out there. The class that avoids roads. Actually bike trails scare me more then roads do. At least people sort of follow the rules on the road on roads and on trails it is like tag team wrestling - anything goes. I stay with the semis where I feel safe. But trail riders tend to ride at a very relaxed pace. Sure they get where they are going and they get exercise so more power to them. But because of my riding style, I won't mix with them much unless we happen to stop at the same place and chat.

You also have the road tourists. They fall into several categories. One group tends to ride at a very relaxed pace. They enjoy the scenery, chat, and seldom push themselves. That isn't my style, but there are many very nice people who do this.

At the other end, you have people who tend to treat every weekend ride as a sort of miniture tour de france. They push and push and push until only the top rider is left or maybe 2-3. The fast riders in our local club do this fairly often but not ALL the time.

Now I have not tried to exhaust the various subgroups of cyclists out there and there are many more then I described above. But many cyclists just because of their riding styles are just not going to interact significantly on the road. If I am at a group ride, I am perfectly happy to chat with any other cyclist. Most have something interesting to say.

I think Roark may well be mistaking the differences in cycling styles for an unwillingness to socialize i.e. snobbery.

about snobbery on this forum... it initally really turned me off with many peoples' describing their new bikes (many '03 and '04) with fancy named parts and the like... while I am still burning the midnight oil to pay off a cheap 80's used single speed....
... but I gotta think that perhaps if I had fancy campy parts or what not, i'd like to boast and brag just a little.... and this isn't such a bad place for that, so ... now i understand.

if you want an insular group... try "professional" mathematicians. I've only been studying math at Chicago for 3 years now, but there aren't big enough aleph-numbers to count how many times my profs have made jokes about "amateur mathematicians." They always like to laugh about how often they're written to by 'amateurs' with claims about solving this or that theorem. It really pisses me off how greatly they *like* to disregard non-academic peoples' attempts at mathematics. Inside the community, this has grown in past years into nation-wide struggles by mathematics educators to even be considered in the same group as hardcore college professor types (who would prefer the teachers be called as such, and not "real" mathematicians). I for one, don't think I'll go into mathematics further than college, but I don't like the idea that this means if I ever want to do math again later in life I'll be so highly looked down upon as to be laughed at for trying.

There is no excuse for "our" attitudes.

I have been a cyclist for over 25 years and when I was introduced to the sport of Mountain Biking it was ingrained on me to

1) Always say hello to another rider / trail user
2) Always stop to offer assistance to another rider / trail user
3) Always be courteous to less experienced riders

I still follow these rules no matter what facet of this great sport I am enjoying! All cyclists enjoy riding their particular style of bike just as much as you enjoy your particular style. We are all cyclists, stop calling yourself a roadie, mtb'er, old school ,etc.

A few stories I would like to pass along.

In 1997 I had the opportunity to spend a few weeks in Tuscon during the winter months. I hooked with group rides and rode solo depending on my training schedule. On a long solo ride I came across a cyclist who had flatted in the middle of nowhere and was walking his bike into town. I stopped and offered an inner tube or pump or both. He galdly accepted. As he fixed his flat he told me that was his first ride on his new bike and the LBS didn't recommend a tube or pump. We chatted some more and he stated " You aren't from Tuscon are you?" I replied I was from the east coast and I asked if my accent was the give away. He replied "no", but at least eight cyclist had passed him and none even acknowledged his presence. He figured I wasn't a local because I offered to help.

On my morning commute to my part time job at the LBS I stopped to help an older gentleman push his car out of an intersection where it had broken down.


Last week I was doing sprint training at the local school with a few friends. A small group of young BMX'ers started talking to us about our bikes and the sprinting. After a few minutes they told us they had built a BMX track very close by and they wanted us to check it out. So we left the school and rode to an open field a few hundred yards away and watched the young cyclist jump, slide and of course, crash. We even rode our road bikes on the course. These young kids were amazed that we could handle our bikes on their course. I hope they stick with cycling and become interested in other facets of the sport (like I did).

The bottom line is this, Our Sport is growing rapidly, take the time to be kind to another cyclist, teach them to do the same and maybe the Snobbery will go away.


Follow the rules
Buddy B

Yeah I'm gonna have to go along and say that the attitudes in road cycling are substantially worse than they are in other enthusiast groups. I've been riding road for about 3 months and could rattle off a list of occasions when I've had other cyclists act inconsiderate (sucking my wheel for miles then trying to blow past me on a hill without a word of acknowledgement), rude (responding with nothing but blank stares when I show up at an open-to-all, broadly advertised group ride and introduce myself)), and hostile (making snide remarks as they pass me). I don't really mind the waving thing, like sometimes youre just too busy or tired to wave and that's fine. But I draw the line when people seem to go out of their way to act like a-holes, and I've never experienced the blatant a-holism that I have in the past three months of road biking.
I understand safety concerns. But those concerns are no excuse for acting like a jerk. If a new guy shows up for a ride, give him a chance! If he does something stupid, by all means let him know. But don't give him the cold shoulder and the attitude just because he's wearing a camelbak and has hairy legs.
I've really been turned off to the sport because of this. I love road riding, and will continue to do so. But my primary focus will remain with mountain biking. I'd much rather be a mtn biker who trains on the road sometimes, rather than vice-versa.
Im not trying to say all roadies are jerks- clearly the people on these forums are great, and I wish most of you guys were on the roads where I live:) And I have had a grand total of two positive experiences involving other roadies (both on the same day!), so I know there are civil people out there. But man, overall the attitude just sucks, and there seems to be this general agreement that "yeah, roadies are kind of jerks, but just stick with it and 'prove yourself' and they'll warm up to ya." Sorry, but a fraternity-esque hazing process of acceptance is not what I'm looking for in my recreational activities.
As a side note, what someone said about academics being insular jerks is spot-on too! I recently finished up my first (and last!) year in a PhD program in English. My advisor referred to non-academics as "civilians". The first time she did this I waited in vain for the laugh or smile that would indicate she was just horsing around. It never came. Wowzers.

As a side note, what someone said about academics being insular jerks is spot-on too! I recently finished up my first (and last!) year in a PhD program in English. My advisor referred to non-academics as "civilians". The first time she did this I waited in vain for the laugh or smile that would indicate she was just horsing around. It never came. Wowzers.

Universities are obviously another can o' worms.......I knew a couple of lecturers who insisted they be addressed as "Professor"!!! We call them "w@nkers" (jerk-offs). One of the guys almost reacted as blatantly as The Maestro on Seinfeld if you got it wrong. :D

This is good fun if you wanna p1ss off some snobby roadies:

I have a reasonable quality, old bike that I use for short commutes, and therefore have it set up for riding in running shoes.

I love causing a stir by wearing my baggiest shorts and t-shirt, and my joggers, then mowing down the regular roadie/tossers on the usual route. We talk about rudeness and hostility; you should see their response when they get dropped by a guy wearing surfing shorts and running shoes, especially when there's 3 of them that can't catch me. :D I sometimes hear them screaming at each other to get their drafting organized: "come on, catch the f--ing b@stard"....hee hee hee ;)

(Now I'm the tosser -- sure glad this is anomynous :) )

I had this thread in mind Sunday afternoon. It's become my Independence Day tradition to ride out to Granite Bay (about 33mi) for a bbq at my inlaws' house. Most of the ride is on the American River Bike Trail. Lots of cyclists on the trail: a couple of "serious" riders I recognized from the River Ride; lots of X-mart full-suspension bikes; a few old school steel-frame racers that looked like they've been hanging in the garage rafters for a few years.

I waved at everyone and the only one who didn't wave back was the guy in the Phonak shorts and no helmet.

In NYC, if I had to wave at every biker I see, I'd a) be riding one handed for most of the way and b) have died months ago dragged under the wheels of a truck as I waved and lost control.
When I'm on my roadie and I see another person riding out on his roadie, I'll usually wave, but I'm not gonna wave to the 20000 immigrants delivering fast food every day, there's only one of those I usually wave at and it's the guy who delivers fast food near the place I usually have sushi at that I helped fix his brake last winter when it wasn't working and it was snowing.

I also wave at every car that passes safely ( I ride in rural areas, so it's not that big a deal).


I thought I was the only person who did that. Seriously, though, I think it helps to build rapport with people who see you every day. Maybe if they're in a bad mood next time they see you, they won't be tempted to buzz right by you. They'll know you're the friendly guy on the bike.

Snob-what's that n doing in there? LOL

Another equipment heavy sport is skiing. You can spend as much or more money on everything and the looks are quite important here too. Good setup for growing snobbery. Well, the difference betwen cycling and skiing is in the obviousness of skills. Not so good skiers can look as flashy as they want and they will still be seen at the hill and everyone will be able to see that they don't have it. And vice versa. One of the best skiers I have ever skied with answered to my foolish teasing about his 15 years old jacket: "I don't need equipment to look good at the hill". And that was sooo true.

Roadies who are only cool looking do not need to perform too much. They are either well behind or the others pass and forget them fast and they are left to impress themself.

PS BTW Talking about snobbery, I am even not going to comment the "20,000 immigrants" sentence.