Professional Cycling For the Fans - Stage 16 Bourg d'Oisans - Alpe d'Huez ITT

Has the #2 GC contender EVER been passed by the yellow in an ITT before??
Amazing, Armstrong is simply amazing (Excellent ride by Azevedo, too - helluva climber - no wonder he's leading Lance out on the tough mountain stages).

Did you hear him kind of get upset while they were watching Lance and the crowds were closing in? He said "Get out of the way... PLEASE!" I don't think he was saying "And I'll bet Lance is thinking...". He just got caught up and got a little panicky :D Heheh. Gotta love those 2 :)

Edit: "him" should be Paul Sherwen. My original post was combined with this thread, wrongly IMHO...

http://www.velonews.com/view_full.php?image=/images/diaries/6625.8544.f.jpg

I think there was a bit of self sensorship there. I have the fealing a "it" was going to end up in the sentence somewhere.

haha! :D

I also didn't miss Phil "plugging" Lance's book. "Every second counts in this man's life" as Lance charged to the line :)

Wow. It was amazing. Did anyone else here the intermittent catcalls and whistles as LA rode by? I did hotice that it seemed he picked up his pace out of the saddle just as he rode over the large 'Lance EPO' painted in the rode. Poetic justice. :) Way to go LA!

On a separate note why is it that 'serious' racers seems to dislike Armstrong? My friend (amateur racer who does 1,000 miles a month) commented that Voeckler did more for with the maillot jaune and increasing TdF popularity in 10 days than LA did in 5 years. I looked at him and said 'maybe in France, or with hardcore Tour fans, but probably not even there.' What's up with all the Lance haters? Are they simply jealous? I mean, just because he specializes in one race, it is the hardest one of the year and doesn't make the winning of it any less impressive, IMO. He still works harder than just about any other cyclist on the planet, but his detractors don't even give him that credit.

Jealousy and envy; to them I say: "Give to Cesar, what belongs to the Cesar"
that's all.
Corsaire

On a separate note why is it that 'serious' racers seems to dislike Armstrong? ... What's up with all the Lance haters?

Same reason lots of people hate the yankees, the lakers etc. When someone does something so well for so long, people want to see someone else get a crack.

It is so much more exciting listening to Phil and Paul call the race than when Al & Bob do it in the afternoon.

Did you hear him kind of get upset while they were watching Lance and the crowds were closing in? He said "Get out of the way... PLEASE!" I don't think he was saying "And I'll bet Lance is thinking...". He just got caught up and got a little panicky :D Heheh. Gotta love those 2 :)

He also said the same thing when someone with a Deutsche flag was running next to Jan. He said something about it causing Jan to alter his course and slow him down.

I also noticed the book plug. Phil said it once and then Paul said it later. Well, I have to go, 'cause "Every Second Counts". :)

Lance said after the stage that he thought all along that an ITT up that road was a bad idea. And given the actions of certain fans, the race director now agrees:

http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsPackageArticle.jhtml?type=sportsNews&storyID=551318&section=news

Same reason lots of people hate the yankees, the lakers etc. When someone does something so well for so long, people want to see someone else get a crack.

I think it's gone past that. I think there are more Lance haters than lovers.

I know that most people here will not understand, but it is worth knowing the fact at least:

About the first five times winner of the TdF, Jacques Anquetil, from the Nationmaster Enciclopedia:

"Despite his tremendous successes, which made him one of the best French cyclists of all time, the always cool, calculating and dissociated ''M itre Jacques'' was never as popular with the French public as his rival Poulidor. He retired to Normandy in 1969 to be a gentleman farmer. "

And this is about his "Urlich" - Raymond Poulidor, same source:

"Raymond Poulidor, often nick-named Pou Pou (born April 15, 1936, Masbaraud-Merignat, France), was a professional bicycle racer. He was known as the 'eternal second', as he finished the Tour de France in second place three times, and in third place five times.

His tragedy was that as a great cyclist, he worked the roads of France in the eras of two of the greatest, Jacques Anquetil and Eddy Merckx. This underdog position, however, may also have been the reason why he was the darling of the public."

One interesting anegdote: Just before passing away when he was only 62 or 63, Maitre Jacques send a massage to his (now) friend Poulidor: "Well you are going to be second, again!"

What about the clip-ons???? In the Lance Chronicles, the Postal team seemed to work forever on a solution for a bike to work in this ITT. They came up with a climbing bike with clip-on bars. However, in the race LANCE DID NOT USE CLIP-ON BARS. Do you think the Lance Chronicles episode was a ruse to get others to think too much about bike set-up, and perhaps use clip-ons?

Also, I noticed that Jan not only had clip-on bars, but he was in them for the bulk of the TT. I guess he knows best, but it would seem that one could make more power on the outside of the bars on such a steep climb. Moreover, the areo advantage is very little @ the relatively slow speeds of this ITT.

Sooooooooo, what do you think about:

1. Lance NOT using clip-ons after showing that he would in his own show.

2. Jan using his clip-ons on nearly the entire ride.

*Gack* this thread seems to have been hijacked by groms. Geez, I'm almost missing Don D's dry albeit learned commentary here.

I couldn't believe the crowds today. How the heck do you ride through a mass of screaming irresponsible idiots like that? Right there is a microcosm of humanity, a sad indictment. I agree they should rope off the whole course, that was ridiculous. It's just a miracle someone didn't get knocked off today.

As for the bike setup question, there was no 'mind games' being played here, geez. Does anyone honestly think a set of minimalist clip-on bars makes any difference? There are two flat-ish sections of the course where speeds would be above the average speed for the course, and some riders decided to be more aero for these sections to try and take some advantage. That's all. Ullrich may also produce more short duration power in a more forward position with those hellishly uncomfortanle looking bars, so that may explain his choices. I thought it was funny how Phil Liggett commented that Ullrichs bike was a whopping 300g heavier than the UCI limit. It looked to me like the only different parts from his regular bike was the front wheel and clip-on bars....not to mention he's a much bigger guy than Lance and rides a bigger bike. There ya go - there's 300g. None-the-less, if I was Ullrich, I would've just used the bike he uses for the mountain stages.

Anyway, this was a live stage I managed to stay awake through, so I'm pretty chuffed about that. Looks like Armstrong is untouchable at this stage, so hopefully the fight for the minor placings will be entertaining.

Has the #2 GC contender EVER been passed by the yellow in an ITT before??
Amazing, Armstrong is simply amazing (Excellent ride by Azevedo, too - helluva climber - no wonder he's leading Lance out on the tough mountain stages).

Tour '97:
Malliot Jaune Jan Ullrich catches and passes #2 GC rider Richard Virenque in both the stage 12 and stage 20 ITT.

- Buddy Lee

Was surprised with VIRENQUE’s lackluster showing today. Was he saving himself to score big climbing points in stage 17?
Stage 16 is short enough I wouldn’t think many would need conserve themselves for 17.

Short, but very intense. Not everyone rode extremely hard, but most did to save themselves from being eliminated from the race.

Wow. It was amazing. Did anyone else here the intermittent catcalls and whistles as LA rode by? I did hotice that it seemed he picked up his pace out of the saddle just as he rode over the large 'Lance EPO' painted in the rode. Poetic justice. :) Way to go LA!
On a separate note why is it that 'serious' racers seems to dislike Armstrong?

There was a hilarious message painted on the course, "Cut their ba*ls off, LA!". Overall it seemed that most fans just cheered the racers on. Al and Bob did mention something about McEwen being heckled and spat on by some fans? That's totally uncalled for. Looks like some cycling fans from around the world are trying to upstage unruly international soccer fans as the most drunken and stupid spectators.

No matter what people think, Lance has proven himself as THE greatest cyclist of his era!

I noticed a fan that had a water bottle was running alongside Jan and pouring water on him. What is the policy on outside help?

What about the clip-ons???? In the Lance Chronicles, the Postal team seemed to work forever on a solution for a bike to work in this ITT. They came up with a climbing bike with clip-on bars. However, in the race LANCE DID NOT USE CLIP-ON BARS. Do you think the Lance Chronicles episode was a ruse to get others to think too much about bike set-up, and perhaps use clip-ons?

Also, I noticed that Jan not only had clip-on bars, but he was in them for the bulk of the TT. I guess he knows best, but it would seem that one could make more power on the outside of the bars on such a steep climb. Moreover, the areo advantage is very little @ the relatively slow speeds of this ITT.

Sooooooooo, what do you think about:

1. Lance NOT using clip-ons after showing that he would in his own show.

2. Jan using his clip-ons on nearly the entire ride.

I think it worked for Lance.

Al and Bob did mention something about McEwen being heckled and spat on by some fans?

From cyclingnews.com:


Lance Armstrong certainly proved he is the man in this year's tour. Only bad luck now stands in the way of a record sixth victory. During interviews after the finish Armstrong was relaxed and full of praise for the French people saying how France was his second favourite country after Texas.

But for Robbie McEwen there were no warm and fuzzy feelings. He was definitely not his usual smiling self at the summit of l'Alpe d'Huez after being heckled by German fans.

"I found it unsporting of quite a lot of the German fans who were standing on the mountain and booing and giving me the finger and screaming 'get f**ked McEwen.'," he told a European television crew. "I know for sure that the Australian fans won't be doing that to the Germans. The Norwegians were waving their flags but they certainly weren't unfriendly."

Why do you think the German fans were like this?

"Maybe they are just used to going to the football and behaving like arseholes," said McEwen. "This is not directed at all Germans, it is directed at the minority who did that and they know who they are and I'd like to send to them a nice big 'get f**ked'."

McEwen was visibly upset by the verbal attacks but when he calmed down he made a point of making sure people got the message that it was only a drunken few.

The fans could have been stirred up by German press reports quoting Zabel and Hondo, complaining that McEwen was dangerous in the sprints and did not have enough regard for the safety of others. However, in a Tour de France that has seen many top riders on the deck, McEwen has had his share of crashes too.

Lance also mentioned this in the post race interview. He was upset at what the german fans, those few, did to Robbie. I agree it was uncalled for. I saw most fans, waving all sorts of flags and cheering everyone on. The nois level was unreal! I will be it was distracting to some.

I noticed a fan that had a water bottle was running alongside Jan and pouring water on him. What is the policy on outside help?

Fans have been pouring water on riders and handing up drinks as long as there's been bike racing. I don't recall the UCI ever prohibiting it.

Was surprised with VIRENQUE’s lackluster showing today.

"King of the mountains" may make his ability misleading. Just because he breaks from the field to get points, only to get dropped at the end, doesn't mean he is the best climber.

Looks like Jens Voigt was hassled by his own countrymen on this stage as well.

McEwen:
If I was LeBlanc I would have ejected Mr. McEwen after the crash of Haselbacher, when McEwen threatened him. This in addition to his "sportsmanlike conduct" in earlier stages would have made my decision to throw him out for 2004 and 2005 as well.

He should have been not been just booed, he should be smacked in his face for his beahaviour.

This is what I say.

you guys are making me hate myself for having to be at work...



Yeah, I hate myself too, I had to watch it from a café in Paris while waiting for the last stage live... :)

Here's the question I'm wondering... did Lance beat Pantani's record?

Nope. I believe he missed it by a minute and a big amount of change.

Koffee

Armstrong clocked a 39:41



Here are some recorded fast times, including the current record. It is important to note that Pantani set the record at the end of a 203.5km mountain stage. and Coppi's time was taken after at the end of a 266km stage. Fignons time is listed, but he did not win that stage in 1989, Gert-Jan Theunisse did. He was my favorite when i was a kid.

He tested positive the same year Delgado did, in 1988. Delgado escaped unpunished, and won the tour, Gert-Jan recieved a 10 minute penalty.

How did Armstrong go 1:40 faster in 2001? Wild.


Are these times taken from the base of the climb, or from the town of Bourg d'Oisans?? I don't know......

39:06 - Mayo 2003
38:01 - Armstrong 2001
39:02 - Virenque 1997
38:23 - Ullrich 1997
37:35 - Pantani 1997 (current record)
39:30 - Riis 1995
39:28 - Indurain/Zulle 1995
38:04 - Pantani 1995
38:00 - Pantani 1994
39:45 - Indurain, 1991
41:50 - Fignon 1989
48:00 - Hinault/Lemond 1986
45:22 - Coppi 1952

Phil and Paul suggested during their Stage 16 coverage that none of the times can really be considered THE record, as there was never a definitive starting point to the climb. This year's TT started 1km before the road actually turned up. That might account for Lance's time being faster in 2001.

So who knows? Maybe it's smarter to calculate from the finish, backwards. But you'll not likely find the perfect time split when the Alpe's tackled during a normal mountain stage.

Eh. I'm confusing myself. :o

Armstrong clocked a 39:41



Here are some recorded fast times, including the current record. It is important to note that Pantani set the record at the end of a 203.5km mountain stage. and Coppi's time was taken after at the end of a 266km stage. Fignons time is listed, but he did not win that stage in 1989, Gert-Jan Theunisse did. He was my favorite when i was a kid.

He tested positive the same year Delgado did, in 1988. Delgado escaped unpunished, and won the tour, Gert-Jan recieved a 10 minute penalty.

How did Armstrong go 1:40 faster in 2001? Wild.


Are these times taken from the base of the climb, or from the town of Bourg d'Oisans?? I don't know......

39:06 - Mayo 2003
38:01 - Armstrong 2001
39:02 - Virenque 1997
38:23 - Ullrich 1997
37:35 - Pantani 1997 (current record)
39:30 - Riis 1995
39:28 - Indurain/Zulle 1995
38:04 - Pantani 1995
38:00 - Pantani 1994
39:45 - Indurain, 1991
41:50 - Fignon 1989
48:00 - Hinault/Lemond 1986
45:22 - Coppi 1952

When I was watching this stage, my understanding was that the recorded times are for the "climb proper," which I thought coincided with the first time check. I therefore calculated that Lance missed Pantani's record by 1 second.