Professional Cycling For the Fans - Stage 4 Cambrai - Arras TTT

okay, so it _is sort of a Lakers or Yankees thing where they win so much that you just get sick of hearing about it.

and yeah- definitely a noble effort, phonak looked downright cursed! i was expecting Hamilton to get struck by lightning or run over by his own team car toward the end.

Brent - why do you think Ullrich will beat Lance in the final ITT? He's only beaten Lance in an ITT once - and that was Stage 12 last year, and he needed Lance to be severely dehydrated (along with other things) in order to do it. He and Lance were neck and neck before Jan crashed in Stage 19, so what makes you think this year will be any different?

I think the only relevant indicator from last year was Ullrich's performance in the stage 12 TT.
The final TT was flat and really fast (tailwind) so time gaps were minimal... they were about even there. (until the crash)

It's just my guess. Ullrich looks really strong and Armstrong is a little older. He hasn't dominated time trials in the last couple of years like he did from 1999-2001. I'm pretty sure I've been thinking this for months... that Ullrich will falter somewhat in the mountains, and finish 2nd or 3rd after winning the final ITT.

We'll see. I certainly won't be surprised if Ullrich wins the ITT, but I'm still picking Armstrong.

We'll just ignore the fact he garnished a sponsorship from Nike ( a known abuser of third world sweatshops )

I believe Nike was one of the only companies to support Lance when he had cancer, unlike Cofidis that asked him to submit to a physical when he was in a hospital bed.



only employs riders faithfully domestique-ised,

That’s an interesting comment since there are three former Postal riders that are heading up their own teams in this years tour.



left his wife for a rock star girlfriend.

If you’re going to try to make Lance out to be a bad guy, at least get your facts straight! OTOH, I guess people write books without any real evidence so you’re not alone.

-murray

Lance...but he's more marketing than anything else.

And what would you call someone who can't build frames, yet markets himself as a framebuilder?

How about someone who has someone else size his customers to a frame, but calls himself a frame designer?

Sounds like a lot of marketing hype to me.

Don, I wouldn't think you'd need to be reminded yet again about your attitude and resorting to personal attacks and slander. You know absolutely nothing about me or what I do, nor is it relevent to this discussion. You've been warned twice now. You won't get a third.

----

Anyway, back on topic. Three formal Postal riders are heading their own teams BECAUSE they were 'domestique-ised' by Postal. Granted, not exactly an historical anomaly, but there you go. Also, funny that Nike can support one individual yet exploit hundreds of others - they're quite used to milking other proples misfortunes, as it were. Why is that I wonder?
Nobody is a saint, we all know that - I'm just taking it upon myself to be the devils advocate - mostly because ( and this thread is a good example ) before I mentioned Phonaks misfortune and how I thought Hamilton looked strong, it was all "Lance this" and 'Ya Postal" and "USPS Team of the Year" back slapping. After I posted, it was "Oh yeah, Tyler, forgot about him" *laugh*

I'm not even a 'veteran' in the veteran scale of things, only watching the Tour since 86 or so, but the whole Lance fixation is a bit nausiating at times. I know everyone loves a winner, but geez, it gets a bit thick sometimes. How about we all start cheering of everyone else and hope the race gets a bit tighter and more interesting this year? Whitewashes are boring, don't you all agree?

Anyway, I'm still looking forward to when 6pm rolls around and I can go watch the Tour on telly. I'm also still managing to pull 300kms a week on the road bike during Winter, which is a small miracle. Especially considering I'm a mountainbiker *ducks*.

g'day tigerboy,

I'll let you & Don sort out your personal stuff...& I don't necessarily agree with your views on Nike...(perhaps we can swap views on that beach rd ride)..but I couldn't agree more on the 'Lanceophiles' inhabiting this forum. I put it down to plain ignorance of what 3 week racing is all about. This morning, after stewies great win (oi, oi, oi) there all moaning that Lance might be in trouble...that george might get the yellow, how good the 'posties' were in the TTT blah, blah, blah......you guys wanna talk TTT...talk PHONAK guys....3 punctures, finish with only 5 guys...everything that could go wrong, did....& they still only lost 1 min or so?.......Now tell me again how the posties woulda gone if George, eki & lance hadda punctured?.......Oh yeah...Phonak has a yank too!. For what its worth, I think lance will win. He's the best 3 week tour rider in the world with the best team behind him......but wouldn't it be a pisser if he didn't?.......lighten up guys...theres more to the tour than UPS & Lance,

cheers,

Hitchy

Don, I wouldn't think you'd need to be reminded yet again about your attitude and resorting to personal attacks and slander. You know absolutely nothing about me or what I do, nor is it relevent to this discussion. You've been warned twice now. You won't get a third.



Was that a threat? :eek: :rolleyes: Or just some marketing hype? :roflmao:

P.S. I know quite a bit about what you claim you're doing; I did it for much of my life.

P.S.S. For the gentle reader's benefit, I have never received any warnings for any posts I have made to this forum since my first post here ~ 1 year ago, unless you count the warnings from Thylacine, but like most of his claims, they are empty.

And what would you call someone who can't build frames, yet markets himself as a framebuilder?

How about someone who has someone else size his customers to a frame, but calls himself a frame designer?

Sounds like a lot of marketing hype to me.


wow....you have such a hard-on for thylacine. you two should just hop in the sack and get it over with already...

and...incidentally, he's designed at least two frames for members of bikeforums...it IS rather difficult to fit someone yourself when your customer lives in the states and you live in australia....

Was that a threat? :eek: :rolleyes: Or just some marketing hype? :roflmao

P.S. I know quite a bit about what you claim you're doing; I did it for much of my life.

P.S.S. For the gentle reader's benefit, I have never received any warnings for any posts I have made to this forum since my first post here ~ 1 year ago, unless you count the warnings from Thylacine, but like most of his claims, they are empty.

you should learn to be a little more constructive with your contributions to the forum.

Come on guys. Neutral corners please. This personal crap is silly.

Now, let's talk about Lance, um, I mean the Tour.

No, Laggard, you definitely mean Lance. He's the best ever.

how good the 'posties' were in the TTT blah, blah, blah......you guys wanna talk TTT...talk PHONAK guys....3 punctures, finish with only 5 guys...everything that could go wrong, did....& they still only lost 1 min or so?.......Now tell me again how the posties woulda gone if George, eki & lance hadda punctured?.......

If those three punctured, I'm sure they still would have won. C'mon, they won by over a minute. You think the winner shouldn't be talked about? Phonak had problems, yet you are saying they were so great in the TTT. If they were so great, they wouldn't have had punctures and finished with 5 guys. Finishing with 8 riders and winning by a minute shows a great team... having reliable equipment shows a great team.

I think Phonak did an awesome ride, yes, but they didn't look nearly as professional as USPS. That is why people talk about USPS's ride.

Or is it blind bias to want to talk about a winner?

Well, he said Lance was all marketing. Now I couldn't let him impune the character of LANCE, could I? :D

Well, he said Lance was all marketing. Now I couldn't let him impune the character of LANCE, could I? :D

no, of course not. no one must be allowed to disrupt the circle-jerk of lance adoration.:rolleyes:

also, there's a difference between "not allowing someone to impune the character of LANCE" and outright slandering someone on a public message board, which you've done a number of times. frankly, it's tiresome and un-called for.

Was that a threat? :eek: :rolleyes: Or just some marketing hype? :roflmao:

P.S. I know quite a bit about what you claim you're doing; I did it for much of my life.

P.S.S. For the gentle reader's benefit, I have never received any warnings for any posts I have made to this forum since my first post here ~ 1 year ago, unless you count the warnings from Thylacine, but like most of his claims, they are empty.

Consider this warning no. 1. I think you might consider taking a moment to read the forum guidelines (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=57195). Slanderous comments about someone's occupation or business are unnecessary and unacceptable. Please do try to stay on topic in future.

Chris L
Forum moderator.

If those three punctured, I'm sure they still would have won. C'mon, they won by over a minute. You think the winner shouldn't be talked about? Phonak had problems, yet you are saying they were so great in the TTT. If they were so great, they wouldn't have had punctures and finished with 5 guys. Finishing with 8 riders and winning by a minute shows a great team... having reliable equipment shows a great team.

I think Phonak did an awesome ride, yes, but they didn't look nearly as professional as USPS. That is why people talk about USPS's ride.

Or is it blind bias to want to talk about a winner?


G'day,

....(sigh)...as usual y'all have missed the point.....such insular views are what make some of U guys scary to the rest of the world.....I don't have the energy or the inclination to take this any further, (besides, theres ridin' to be done! & its POETS day.....for the uninitiated thats Piss Off Early Tomorrows Saturday!)
but I fail to see how you can believe that punctures, at this level of cycling, are anything other than luck (or lack of it)....but then again, valid arguments aren't compulsory on this forum, (or apparently even welcomed unless they are Pro lance),

cheers,

Hitchy

I missed the issue with Simoni on the TTT.
Simoni crashed right before the finish. Because of this, he did not finish with his team. Because of this, he lost an extra 90 seconds or so. (when he actually finished maybe 10 seconds behind his team)

Does this sound fair, right, sensible to any of you?



but I fail to see how you can believe that punctures, at this level of cycling, are anything other than luck (or lack of it)....but then again, valid arguments aren't compulsory on this forum, (or apparently even welcomed unless they are Pro lance),

cheers,

Hitchy

I fail to see how losing 4 riders is anything other than a sign of team weakness.
There is more to the punctures than luck. Look at how many punctures Phonak has had so far in this race.
USPS didn't flat, because they chose a more reliable tire for the TTT. That was smarts, not luck.

You pass up my message as insular when you know less of what happened than I do.

Consider this warning no. 1. I think you might consider taking a moment to read the forum guidelines (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=57195). Slanderous comments about someone's occupation or business are unnecessary and unacceptable. Please do try to stay on topic in future.

Chris L
Forum moderator.

Chris,

Slander is by definition lies. I have never spoken a lie about Thylacine, and an objective review of his posts/comments would bear out that I am only reminding people of the words he has spoken here. If you can point out one statement I have made that is a lie about Thylacine, I will refrain from posting to Bikeforums.net.

Don D.
Forum participant

I missed the issue with Simoni on the TTT.
Simoni crashed right before the finish. Because of this, he did not finish with his team. Because of this, he lost an extra 90 seconds or so. (when he actually finished maybe 10 seconds behind his team)

Does this sound fair, right, sensible to any of you?

G'day,

yep dems the rules for this TTT. (I don't think anyone thinks THESE rules are sensible)....one guy got eliminated from the tour altogether cos he was off the back of his team.



I fail to see how losing 4 riders is anything other than a sign of team weakness.
There is more to the punctures than luck. Look at how many punctures Phonak has had so far in this race.
USPS didn't flat, because they chose a more reliable tire for the TTT. That was smarts, not luck.

You pass up my message as insular when you know less of what happened than I do.


You're entitled to your view....the insular comment was not directed at your comment perse....but the attitude that pervades this forum (& this thread in particular)....I reckon we were watching different time trials.....I was watching the TDF...you were watching UPS......but I'm outta here.....this argument is old hat...the proof will be in the pudding,

cheers,

Hitchy

The proof is indeed in the pudding. USPS won the TTT, you can't argue that. Phonak's performance given their puncturing, and losing 4 guys was impressive. You can't deny that. But USPS was a better team yesterday.

The proof is indeed in the pudding. USPS won the TTT, you can't argue that. Phonak's performance given their puncturing, and losing 4 guys was impressive. You can't deny that. But USPS was a better team yesterday.

G'day devil,

I don't think you'll find i have disagreed anywhere with that statement. UPS won the TTT, deservedly so, they were the best team on the day......I wasn't arguing otherwise,

cheers,

Hitchy

Alright, then I misunderstood you.

My apologies.

Chris,

Slander is by definition lies. I have never spoken a lie about Thylacine, and an objective review of his posts/comments would bear out that I am only reminding people of the words he has spoken here. If you can point out one statement I have made that is a lie about Thylacine, I will refrain from posting to Bikeforums.net.

Don D.
Forum participant

You constantly attempt to character assasinate and slander myself and my company anytime I say anything you don't succinctly agree with, regardless if it has anything to do with the topic at hand. As for the 'lies', where do you want me to start?

1) I have never promoted myself as an 'Artisan Framebuilder', yet you continue to assasinate my character by lying about the fact that I have. That's a lie.
2) I design every frame that goes out the door, yet you say that because I send my road customers to a fit expert that I somehow I don't design them. That's another lie.
3)You said in the post "Selecting a steel tubeset. Manufacturers recommendations" -

"By the way, anyone who wants can go to www.bikelist.org and read Thylacine's flames on the Framebuilders list by typing Thylacine into the archive search engine. Enjoy. Seems the best framebuilders in the world don't have much credibility with him either."

I've never flamed the framebuilders list. That's a lie.
4) I've never read anything on that list, or traded any emails with any of the members of that list that has lead me or anyone else to the conclusion that I have a 'lack of credibility'. Again, another lie.
5) Maybe more along the lines of 'Contempt for everyone on this list' rather than just me -

"For those interested in Thylacine's knowledge or lack thereof about design, read here:
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthrea...0930#post391855"

A thread that has nothing to do with my design knowledge or, well, even design. *laugh*

Anyway, I've wasted too much time on this crap. On with the Tour.....

You constantly attempt to character assasinate and slander myself and my company anytime I say anything you don't succinctly agree with, regardless if it has anything to do with the topic at hand. As for the 'lies', where do you want me to start?

1) I have never promoted myself as an 'Artisan Framebuilder', yet you continue to assasinate my character by lying about the fact that I have. That's a lie.
2) I design every frame that goes out the door, yet you say that because I send my road customers to a fit expert that I somehow I don't design them. That's another lie.
3)You said in the post "Selecting a steel tubeset. Manufacturers recommendations" -

"By the way, anyone who wants can go to www.bikelist.org and read Thylacine's flames on the Framebuilders list by typing Thylacine into the archive search engine. Enjoy. Seems the best framebuilders in the world don't have much credibility with him either."

I've never flamed the framebuilders list. That's a lie.
4) I've never read anything on that list, or traded any emails with any of the members of that list that has lead me or anyone else to the conclusion that I have a 'lack of credibility'. Again, another lie.
5) Maybe more along the lines of 'Contempt for everyone on this list' rather than just me -

"For those interested in Thylacine's knowledge or lack thereof about design, read here:
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthrea...0930#post391855"

A thread that has nothing to do with my design knowledge or, well, even design. *laugh*

Anyway, I've wasted too much time on this crap. On with the Tour.....


:rolleyes: I'm not going to bore people anymore with this. Here's a little parting gift for you: