Professional Cycling - Stage 4 Cambrai - Arras TTT

July 7 64.5 km
Team Time Trial

.....

Thank god McEwen is in Yellow, we should get lots of footage of him and the team with those beachballs on their heads!

I think this is going to be a great TTT. I can see 4 or 5 teams coming in within 10 or 20 seconds of one another. I predict CSC winning, with USPS, Phonak, T-Mobile, and Fassa in this order (hey, why not go out on a limb with predictions?). Hincapie and Ekimov did look to be on great form today, though. It should be the best TTT since the reintroduction.

I can see 4 or 5 teams coming in within 10 or 20 seconds of one another.

I see all the teams split by about 10-20 seconds. :)
2nd place can be no more than 20 seconds behind
3rd place can be no more than 30 seconds behind
4th place can be no more than 40 seconds behind

Of course with these new TTT rules, making that part of prediction is pretty easy. :)

Andrew

The new rules are goofy! JMO A lot of tatics in the last 2 teams running this race.

At least Euskatel is out of the picture as a serious GC threat - this helps to neutralize the goofy new TTT rules. I would not have been surprised if Euskatel wrote off the 2'30" early on, sat up, and enjoyed the view while keeping their energies for later on. The other GC hopefuls have better teams, so they will work hard for the whole race to minimize losses and get an edge in the GC.

BTW, does anybody know if there is an outer limit to how long a team may spend on the TTT? Surely the organizers would not tolerate a gap of 15 minutes, for example, as a blatant abuse of the rule. Anybody heard about an outer limit?

Thanks!

Here are the TTT rules (although I'm sure they have been posted elsewhere)
as posted on Serotta Owners Forum.

Don't know about you, but they are confusing to say the least.
I thought max a team could lose is 2min 30sec. but from this looks
like 3 minutes.

Coefficient 6 (team time trials) :
The permitted finishing time is calculated according to the best time (time of the 5th man in the
winning team) plus 25%.

Article 24 – Team time trials
(art. 2.6.023 to 2.6.024)
Teams start their team time trial at 5 minute intervals in the reverse order of the team ranking
established following the 3rd stage. As soon as the 1st team starts, training is forbidden along the
route; a separate warm-up area is provided. The stage ranking is established for each of the teams
based on the finishing time of the 5th rider in each team (to the nearest hundredth of a second). An
identical time is given to all teammates who arrive within this same time, even if they actually finish
quicker.
The procedure for establishing the general individual time ranking is as follows:
Times for all riders are calculated according to the gap between them and the 5th man of the winning
team (scratch time).
If this gap is less than that given in the table below, then the actual time recorded by the timekeepers
will be taken.
If the gap is more than that given in the table below, then the rider will receive the time of the winning
team plus the additional number of seconds indicated in the table below according to the place of
their team.

20’’ for the 2nd team
30’’ for the 3rd team
40’’ for the 4th team
50’’ for the 5th team
1’ for the 6th team
1’10 for the 7th team
1’20 for the 8th team
1’30 for the 9th team
1’40 for the 10th team
1’50 for the 11th team
2’00 for the 12th team
2’10 for the 13th team
2’20 for the 14th team
2’30 for the 15th team
2’35 for the 16th team
2’40 for the 17th team
2’45 for the 18th team
2’50 for the 19th team
2’55 for the 20th team
3’00 for the 21st team

Riders who arrive on their own after the 5th rider in their team will be credited for the general ranking
with the actual time they took to complete the stage.
However, riders finishing outside of the permitted finishing times (coefficient 6) will be disqualified.
As far as the general team ranking is concerned, the actual time of the 5th man in each team will be
the time recorded for this ranking.
In the event that a team no longer has at least five riders, those remaining must finish the stage
within the permitted finishing time cited in article 22 (coefficient 6). The time recorded for the
general ranking will be the finishing time of the last rider in that team.
Riders from the same team are forbidden from pushing or pulling each other along.
Food and drink will be supplied by the team staff from the sports director’s car at the back of the
group, once they have reached the designated feeding area.

It's right here;


Coefficient 6 (team time trials) :
The permitted finishing time is calculated according to the best time (time of the 5th man in the winning team) plus 25%.

So just to throw numbers out there, if the winning team finishes the stage in 1 hour flat, the time limit on the stage before being swept is 1:15:00 (so you get 15 minutes - 25% of an hour).

So considering the length of the stage and the past history I'd say you can cruise in 10 minutes behind without being in danger of being rolled over the broom car, and still only end up 2:30 (or 3:00, I'm confused by that as well) behind the leaders. Now if a couple of teams did it, that would make for an interesting one-finger salute to the people writing the rule book.

Andrew

Thanks alot for the details.

What about the part about a team finishing 2nd, but if they finish <20 seconds from first they get that time. While if they finished second at say 45 seconds back, they get only 20 seconds back recorded as their time. They really f***ed this up in my opinion. I think this way only maybe 5 teams will be going full out for the win, the others not giving a crap about where they end up. I expect to see Lotto-Domo taking there sweet time just to keep mcewen in the yellow for as long as possible!

What about the part about a team finishing 2nd, but if they finish <20 seconds from first they get that time. While if they finished second at say 45 seconds back, they get only 20 seconds back recorded as their time. They really f***ed this up in my opinion. I think this way only maybe 5 teams will be going full out for the win, the others not giving a crap about where they end up. I expect to see Lotto-Domo taking there sweet time just to keep mcewen in the yellow for as long as possible!


Let me get this straight: So if USPS is first, and let's say T-Mobil is second by forty seconds, Lance only goes up 20 seconds on Ullrich?

If so, you're right, they sure did f*** this one up.

I believe that's how it will work.

As I said before, my understanding is that the Tour is not crazy about team time trials and includes them mostly for the fans. This may be a compromise they made. Fans get their TTT but it doesn't overly effect the race.

What about the part about a team finishing 2nd, but if they finish <20 seconds from first they get that time. While if they finished second at say 45 seconds back, they get only 20 seconds back recorded as their time. They really f***ed this up in my opinion. I think this way only maybe 5 teams will be going full out for the win, the others not giving a crap about where they end up. I expect to see Lotto-Domo taking there sweet time just to keep mcewen in the yellow for as long as possible!

I don't agree :p If T-Mobile sits up thinking they are outside 20 seconds, CSC or Phonak could slip in front of them on placing and cost them another 10 or 20 seconds. The rule makes the teams race for placings instead of time which could make them race harder since a couple seconds could turn into 10 or 20 on GC.

Of course several teams not going for GC could sit up, but that happens in the ITT all the time. I don't see anyone complaining about that :rolleyes:

-murray

Sorry, but....TTT...BORING :)

Thank god McEwen is in Yellow, we should get lots of footage of him and the team with those beachballs on their heads!

I come from a land down under a HUGE helmet!

Starting times . at the time of posting this its 14:20

Team Hour
EUS - EUSKALTEL - EUSKADI 14:15:00
C.A - CREDIT AGRICOLE 14:20:00
COF - COFIDIS CREDIT PAR TELEPHONE 14:25:00
RAG - R.A.G.T. SEMENCES - MG ROVER 14:30:00
SAE - SAECO 14:35:00
LOT - LOTTO - DOMO 14:40:00
ALB - ALESSIO - BIANCHI 14:45:00
BLB - BRIOCHES LA BOULANGERE 14:50:00
QSD - QUICK STEP - DAVITAMON 14:55:00
DVE - DOMINA VACANZE 15:00:00
IBB - ILLES BALEARS - B. SANTANDER 15:05:00
A2R - AG2R PREVOYANCE 15:10:00
GST - GEROLSTEINER 15:15:00
FDJ - FDJEUX.COM 15:20:00
LST - LIBERTY SEGUROS 15:25:00
TMO - T-MOBILE TEAM 15:30:00
RAB - RABOBANK 15:35:00
PHO - PHONAK HEARING SYSTEMS 15:40:00
CSC - TEAM CSC 15:45:00
FAS - FASSA BORTOLO 15:50:00
USP - US POSTAL - BERRY FLOOR 15:55:00

Raining for todays stage. Don't expect killer times.
Remember USPS in 2001. . .

Marty

T-Mobile and Phonak both having problems with punctures, and waiting for riders. Will USPS stay out of trouble and put big time into both?

T-Mobile is second after the second time check.. they cut around 30 from Illes Balears!

USP had to wait for a cyclist - only 11 seconds in front of T-Mobile at the first time check! USP has the 5th fastest time. Not what is expected from Armstrong's boys!

USP down one man

2nd time check
1- US POSTAL - BERRY FLOOR 00:46:30
2- ILLES BALEARS - B. SANTANDER 00:46:58 at 28"
3- T-MOBILE TEAM 00:47:09 at 39"
4- PHONAK HEARING SYSTEMS 00:47:20 at 50"
5- LIBERTY SEGUROS 00:47:29 at 59"

Nice comback T-Mobile!

Great time for the Phonak team

1- PHONAK HEARING SYSTEMS 01:13:10.660
2- ILLES BALEARS - B. SANTANDER 01:13:18.320 at 07"
3- T-MOBILE TEAM 01:13:22.430 at 11"

Lance will have an advantage of at most 20 seconds over Hamilton and 40 over Ullrich

Last year, wasn't USPS almost last in the first time check? It means nothing. I don't know why Phil and Paul always make a big deal about it.

Ridiculous TTT rules. I can see limiting overall losses, but why penalize a good performance?

What happened to Noval? How did Postal lose him, flat???

Sorry, but....TTT...BORING :)

Why do you think so? I think it's pretty exciting. Shorter route, so more digestible for viewers, and more intense action over shorter distance. Get to see more typical size pack drafting and watch their techniques. Throw in heavy downpour and treacherous cobble stones and you have the makings for one helluva mountain-bike race! :rolleyes:

Ridiculous TTT rules. I can see limiting overall losses, but why penalize a good performance?

On the other hand, it can also be said that its not Ullrich's or Hamilton's fault that their teamates arent as strong as Armstrong's. I think this new rules are quite good.

On the other hand, it can also be said that its not Ullrich's or Hamilton's fault that their teamates arent as strong as Armstrong's. I think this new rules are quite good.

It also wasn't Mayo's fault that he got caught up in a crash yesterday, but that's the way it goes. He lost time not because of the crash, but because his team wasn't strong enough to get him back to the front. Should his time loss have been limited because of that?

Ridiculous TTT rules. I can see limiting overall losses, but why penalize a good performance?

I really hope that they don't do this next year. It would be 100 times more logical and sportsmanlike to just make the TTT shorter.

What happened to Noval? How did Postal lose him, flat???

No sign of a flat. It seems that his crash yesterday had a bad effect on him today. They left him around 20km in to the TTT.

Go And Deliver That Mail Usps!!!

Go And Deliver That Mail Usps!!!


US Postal crushes all!
1:12:03 is the final time! They came to the line 1'07" faster than Phonak. The team was all smiles as they crossed the line.
- 7/07 05:09 pm

I really hope that they don't do this next year. It would be 100 times more logical and sportsmanlike to just make the TTT shorter.

I agree. Make it shorter so time losses can't be tremendous. Or do away with it, but it is a pretty enjoyable stage to watch.

Postal is the greatest team ever!!

US Postal crushes all!
1:12:03 is the final time! They came to the line 1'07" faster than Phonak. The team was all smiles as they crossed the line.
- 7/07 05:09 pm

Thank you for the update. I've been trying to get to the letour.com site for the last 10 min. to see who won. I think they need a bigger server!

What happened to Noval? How did Postal lose him, flat???
Noval as stated above just couldn't maintain pace due to crash yesterday.
From what I can tell he still hasn't come in yet, has about 15 minutes to get in or
get eliminated.

Marty

On the other hand, it can also be said that its not Ullrich's or Hamilton's fault that their teamates arent as strong as Armstrong's. I think this new rules are quite good.

It's not Ullrich's fault he wasn't born a climber, he shouldn't be penalized when a true climber rides away from him on the mountains. And Mayo wasn't born with that natural time trial speed, he shouldn't be penalized for time lost in time trials.

Andrew

Postal is the greatest team ever!!

Troll.


Thank you for the update. I've been trying to get to the letour.com site for the last 10 min. to see who won. I think they need a bigger server!

cyclingnews has the results


It's not Ullrich's fault he wasn't born a climber, he shouldn't be penalized when a true climber rides away from him on the mountains. And Mayo wasn't born with that natural time trial speed, he shouldn't be penalized for time lost in time trials.

Andrew

That is different, because ITT and climbing faults are the faults of the rider. But a rider cannot turn the pedals for his teamates in the TTT.

It's not Ullrich's fault he wasn't born a climber, he shouldn't be penalized when a true climber rides away from him on the mountains. And Mayo wasn't born with that natural time trial speed, he shouldn't be penalized for time lost in time trials.

Andrew


By that logic, I shouldn't be penalized on the climbs, flats, or even downhills, because i wasnt a born rider in any of those categories. :D

USPS could've just sat up after the second time check. With these rules, any extra work they did to build their lead over 2nd place was wasted... They put so much time into the field that everyone will get the minumum time loss. That's gotta annoy Jan - His team only finished 12 seconds behind Phonak...but due to the rules, they'll receive a time 20 seconds slower than Phonak. So Hamilton essentially gets 8 free seconds over Jan! Of course, the race organizers didn't think one team would dominate so thoroughly, so they probably never saw this happening...

Just heard that Noval is on the podium, so he didn't get eliminated.
big relief.
I hate the new rules (although they are repeat of a previous table used),
its too homogenized. If a team is gonna lose, let them lose.

Marty

I wish they'd just eliminate the TTT.

USPS could've just sat up after the second time check. With these rules, any extra work they did to build their lead over 2nd place was wasted... They put so much time into the field that everyone will get the minumum time loss. That's gotta annoy Jan - His team only finished 12 seconds behind Phonak...but due to the rules, they'll receive a time 20 seconds slower than Phonak. So Hamilton essentially gets 8 free seconds over Jan! Of course, the race organizers didn't think one team would dominate so thoroughly, so they probably never saw this happening...

Yeah, but Jan has to feel pretty good that he only loses 40 seconds to LA when he finished 1:19 behind him.

Postal is the greatest team ever!!

For once you may be correct. I realize you are usually trying to be (funny? ironic? sardonic?) but it is hard to argue against your statement.

It's not Ullrich's fault he wasn't born a climber, he shouldn't be penalized when a true climber rides away from him on the mountains. And Mayo wasn't born with that natural time trial speed, he shouldn't be penalized for time lost in time trials.

Andrew

Whole different thing. Put Armstrong in Phonak and Hamilton in USPS and you will have Hamilton wearing the yellow jersey today. Same riders, different teamates, different results.

For once you may be correct. I realize you are usually trying to be (funny? ironic? sardonic?) but it is hard to argue against your statement.

I'm being ironically sardonic.

Whole different thing. Put Armstrong in Phonak and Hamilton in USPS and you will have Hamilton wearing the yellow jersey today. Same riders, different teamates, different results.

I doubt it. Armstrong had 16 seconds over Hamilton from the prologue. Armstrong is obviously part of the reason USPS is a good TTT team. He may have made up the other 4 seconds if he were with Phonak. It certainly wouldn't be an automatic result.

Plus, I don't feel too bad for Tyler considering that had so many problems during the stage and still came in second. I think they would have been alot closer to first otherwise. I don't think Noval's problems hurt Postal much.

Can't seem to get any results online (cyclingnews only has first 10 GC, and letour is legone). Where do Tyler, Jan, Levi, Julich, and Mayo stand in relation to Armstrong?

Here is my calculations on the time gaps. Tyler made out like a bandit today :D The rule limited his losses to Lance and increased his gains on Jan!

Did anyone expect this kind of Postal domination?!? I think Lance and the Posties are ready to deliver :lol: :lol:

-murray



Place Team Time Rule Diff
1 US Postal 1:12:03
1 Phonak 1:07 0:20 0:47
2 Illes Balears 1:15 0:30 0:45
3 T-Mobile 1:19 0:40 0:39
4 CSC 1:45 0:50 0:55
5 Rabobank 1:53 1:00 0:53
6 Liberty Seguros 2:25 1:10 1:15
7 Euskaltel - Euskadi 2:35 1:20 1:15
8 Saeco 2:35 1:30 1:05
9 Alessio - Bianci 2:57 1:40 1:17
10 Quickstep-Davitamon 3:29 1:50 1:39
11 Crédit Agricole 3:32 2:00 1:32
12 AG2R 4:05 2:10 1:55
13 Brioches La Boulangère 4:17 2:20 1:57
14 Domina Vacanze 4:22 2:30 1:52
15 Gerolsteiner 4:36 2:40 1:56
16 Lotto 5:19 2:45 2:34
17 Cofidis 5:33 2:50 2:43
18 RAGT Sémences 5:37 2:55 2:42
19 FDJeux.com 7:25 3:00 4:25