Commuting - IGH - Is Alfine pretty good bang-for-th-buck?

Thinking about an IGH for the winter commuter. Assuming I don't want to spend the long green on Schmidt or Rohloff, is Alfine my best alternative?

Even more affordable would be the Nexus-8 or -7.

Even more affordable would be the Nexus-8 or -7.

Probably not looking for the absolute rock-bottom dollar option, but I couldn't spend what a Schmidt or Rohloff costs. I was looking for something more moderately priced - but still decent.

If you don't need disc brake compatibility, the Nexus SG-8R36 is identical internally to the latest Alfine but less expensive.

Even less expensive yet is the SRAM S7, with the same overall range of the Shimano 8s in more even steps. I was on a street corner in Munich for some 45 minutes watching hundreds of bikes go by and I swear every fourth or fifth bike had an S7.

tcs

I think so at least for me so far. I got lucky and bought a brand new Alfine/Salsa rear wheel on Craigslist at a great price. At this point I really am happy with the performance for what it is. Dura Ace shifting precision it's not, but it's damn good for my formerly single speed commuter bike, and for the price. Also it's silent which is really cool. I'm looking forward to seeing how it does this winter.

Nexus 8 user here. IMO -the shifts are crisp and the range is fine for various terrain.

Thanks for the various replies. So as between the Nexus and the Alfine, it really just comes down to exterior finish and apparently the ability to choose 32h or 36h with Alfine?

I have an Alfine and I think it's very solid. It certainly feels better than the Nexus I rode.

I rode both the Alfine and Nexus in the same year. Some people have suggested that although they were the same year, they were different models and the latest Nexus is the same internally as the latest Alfine. It's possible, I have no idea. What I know for sure is that I wouldn't buy an older used Nexus - I think they're rather bottom of the barrel.

Ginsoakedboy--
This is not completely true. There are two levels of Nexus 8-- the regular, and the redband or "premium" nexus 8.
The normal nexus 8 is good by any standard, but apparently the premium model and the Alfine are on a different level, shifting up and down without noise or hesitation stopped, moving, or even under heavy pedaling load.

I have heard that the Alfine has an improved clutch mechanism over the nexus 8 premium, although I'm not sure this is true. In any case but both are supposed to be excellent. Many have said, in fact, that if you don't need a huge gearing range the Alfine is a better hub than the rohloff-- smoother, easier shifting, and lighter.

Nexus 8R35 = Alfine 500 guts
Nexus 8R36 = Alfine 501 guts

I'd get an Alfine, that way you can have a disc if you want it later, with Nexus you're stuck with a roller drum brake. I have an Nexus 8R35 and two Alfine 501s, shifting difference and quietness is very close. Alfine may be sealed better, hard to tell.

I used disc brakes last winter, and now I won't use anything else in the snow. If you have ice and snow in the winter, I recommend going with Alfine and disc brakes.

The Swobo Baxter looks like a nice ride. I've been looking at the Breezer Finesse too.

I like my Alfine. It is the only IGH I've ridden in, say, 40 years, so I couldn't compare it with others on the market.

I used disc brakes last winter, and now I won't use anything else in the snow. If you have ice and snow in the winter, I recommend going with Alfine and disc brakes.

Thanks for the confirmation. :)
My Surly 1X1 is in my LBS right now getting set up with IGH. Getting a little tired of the static mph on the single speed. Also heartily agree on disc brakes in the winter muck.

Ginsoakedboy--
This is not completely true. There are two levels of Nexus 8-- the regular, and the redband or "premium" nexus 8.

This is not completely true. There have been four releases of the Nexus 8 (1) and four releases of the Nexus Premium 8 a.k.a. "Red Band" (2).

1. SG-8*20, -8*22, -8*30, -8*31
2. SG-8*25, -8*27, -8*35, -8*36

Despite having been suplanted by three subsequent, improved models, I still see the original -8*20 on large numbers of OEM bikes at the LBS and I suppect this lowest cost model is still in production along with the -8*31 and -8*36.

Some posters who have spent the extra dosh on the Alfine SG-S500S or -S501 swear that they work better than the less expensive Nexus SG-8*35 or -8*36 hubs even though Shimano's literature says they are identical internally. Sorry, but the OP asked about bang-for-buck.

HTH,
tcs

I'd get an Alfine, that way you can have a disc if you want it later, with Nexus you're stuck with a roller drum brake...

..., caliper brakes or a coaster brake.

Best,
tcs

Thanks to all -- I think that's the info I was looking for. Minneapolis is my location also, so the info about the disc brakes will definitely bear upon my decision -- Although I will say that I have managed winter commuting successfully with rim brakes. Thanks again.

One happy Alfine user here, esp for wet winter commuting.

There is definitely a difference between the Nexus Standard and Nexus Premium. The Premium is much smoother. I haven't tried the Alfine, but I hear most people can't determine the difference between Nexus Premium and Alfine. I will have to try it out myself.

Having pulled apart a Nexus 8R35 and an Alfine 501 I can say the Alfine is much better sealed, esp on the non-drive side.

Having pulled apart a Nexus 8R35 and an Alfine 501 I can say the Alfine is much better sealed, esp on the non-drive side.

Wonderful, given that the -S501 is the latest generation Alfine and the -8R35 is the previous, now obsolete version Nexus. Progress is good.

tcs

Wonderful, given that the -S501 is the latest generation Alfine and the -8R35 is the previous, now obsolete version Nexus. Progress is good.

LOL, if you go to:

http://techdocs.shimano.com

and look at both diagrams, you'll see the 8R35 and the 8R36 have the same non-drive side cones set up...so the info is good...the upgrades are to the internals....:thumb:

You might want to check out this article:

http://hubstripping.wordpress.com/internal-gear-hub-review/

Contains some technical information but still an easy read. Best of all, it's unbiased. All the responses above are based in personal experience and may be of even more value. Who's to say? You're question made me think of this article so, for what it's worth, here it is. Happy dilemma!

I'm really, really tempted to go with a nuvinci for the next commuter I get, but as it would be strictly a commuter, and not any super speed, the 8 lbs wouldn't be much of a penalty...

If you're not riding in extreme conditions, the SRAM im9 is a good option. They can be had for the same price as the new 501 Alfine. IMHO, it's better for the road, the gear steps are even, the Alfine/Nexus 5-6 step is huge, right in the sweetspot. Has disc mount, gripshift only.

If it is any consolation, I understand that SRAM used to be Sachs.

I wouldn't think of the Nexus as a "rock bottom dollar" option. It's a very high quality piece of kit.

Anyone want to comment on the Alfine in cold conditions? From earlier conversations here, I understood that since they used grease instead of oil, they could get fairly stiff and hard to shift in subzero conditions. Several people who were commuting in < 0*F conditions said they preferred the SRAM for that reason.

Anyone want to comment on the Alfine in cold conditions?...Several people who were commuting in < 0*F conditions said they preferred the SRAM for that reason.

I've had my Alfine 501 and my Nexus 8R35 working with factory grease down to -18*F, there's a couple riders in Alberta, Canada that had Alfine 500/501 working to -40*C. The Shimanos shift fine in the cold, just a little slower at -18*F. OTOH, my SRAM i-Motion 9 freezes up anything below 20*F. I've since converted my iM9 to oil, hopefully it'll work better in the cold this winter.

As far as sealing, Alfine is well sealed on drive side and non-drive side, Nexus is well sealed on drive side (same as Alfine) but not so good on non-drive side. iM9 is leaky, almost as bad as an old Sturmey 3 speed.

Anyone want to comment on the Alfine in cold conditions? From earlier conversations here, I understood that since they used grease instead of oil, they could get fairly stiff and hard to shift in subzero conditions. Several people who were commuting in < 0*F conditions said they preferred the SRAM for that reason.

Cannot speak for an Alfine, however entering my third winter with a regular "old" non-red band nexus on a Jamis 3 commuter. I store the bike at ambient temps, which during the winter can be well below zero.
So far it has shifted and worked nicely in any of these temps - just remember keep the cables free running. IMHO - they are more likely to be the cause of any issues than the hub.

Thanks for the comments on cold weather with IGH. I'll probably never do anything with it, I'm generally too cheap to buy another bike when I've got one that will do, but if I ever do find a nice frame that fits me at a garage sale with horizontal dropouts, I might think about building an IGH bike.

Thanks for the comments on cold weather with IGH. I'll probably never do anything with it, I'm generally too cheap to buy another bike when I've got one that will do, but if I ever do find a nice frame that fits me at a garage sale with horizontal dropouts, I might think about building an IGH bike.

You realize that the reason people build winter bikes is often exactly to save money right?

Here in Minnesota, among the people who bike commute to work all winter, the reason people build winter bikes is to save money. I've been told again and again by people who have tried it that after a single winter of bike commuting every day the entire drivetrain on their bike is shot - derailler, chain, chainrings, etc.

People have different approaches. Some people ride a single speed (about $100 to replace the entire drivetrain there). Other people buy a used $100-$200 mountain bike (the old ones without suspension), ride it all winter, then throw it away in the spring and buy another one the next year. People unwilling to forgo gearing buy an IGH bike, or spend time cleaning their bike every ride or every week, or just pay the extra money to replace the components every year.

If you only have one bike, if it's decent at all, and if you're going to ride it all winter on the roads, I'm just saying using it for winter riding is not the "cheap" option.

Here in Minnesota, among the people who bike commute to work all winter, the reason people build winter bikes is to save money. I've been told again and again by people who have tried it that after a single winter of bike commuting every day the entire drivetrain on their bike is shot - derailler, chain, chainrings, etc.

If you only have one bike, if it's decent at all, and if you're going to ride it all winter on the roads, I'm just saying using it for winter riding is not the "cheap" option.

I'm not seeing that.

I've been riding my $300 bike every day, all winter for 4 years now, and I did replace the derailler at 10,000, but that was due to worn sprockets. I replace my chain every 1800 miles or so, but that doesn't change between summer and winter, it wears fast in the summer because I am riding 8 miles a day on gravel roads and it is NEVER clean, even if I cleaned it last night, and in the winter due to salt and grit.

From talking with my friends in Minnesota, there's at least as much salt and crap on the roads around here as there is in Minnesota.

I replaced my freewheel twice, but that was because I forgot to check and change my chain in time and I wrecked it. I've been running my current sprocket for over a year now and no problems.

I have 19000 miles on my chainrings, and yeah, the middle one (really the only one I ever use) is getting pretty worn, but that doesn't bother me. I may flip it over soon and start wearing out the other side.

I have to date not even had to adjust my shifters - they shifted fine (assuming the derailler or cable wasn't full of crap) and accurately always. I only had to adjust them when I replaced the derailler at 10K, and the cables at 12K.

So yeah, I see a little more wear on my bike in the winter, but I'm not sure why building a different bike, and wrecking that one instead, would save me any money. It's not like my current bike is much different than what I'd build for the winter, except I'd probably go rear discs as well as the fronts I have now, and probably wider tires.

The only reason I think I might like an IGH is that sometimes my derailler gets clogged with ice and I have to stop and kick it a few times to get it into a gear I can live with for the whole trip. Once I get to work I put it inside and the ice melts out and it's fine.

LOL, if you go to:

http://techdocs.shimano.com

and look at both diagrams, you'll see the 8R35 and the 8R36 have the same non-drive side cones set up...so the info is good...the upgrades are to the internals....:thumb:

So you're saying the Alfine 501 is better sealed than the 8R36?

So you're saying the Alfine 501 is better sealed than the 8R36?

Nexus 8R35/36 have the same external features, the Alfine 500/501 have the same external features.

Comparision:
Driveside sealing: Nexus dustcap pushes in, Alfine's screws, other features are the same. I suppose the Alfine's threaded dustcap seals a little better, IMHO, it's the same.

Non-driveside sealing: Alfine has labrynth seal like an XT MTB hub, the Nexus has a cone. When the Nexus has it's cover installed or a roller brake, it's going to be pretty good at keeping out normal riding spray. If the hub is submerged or sprayed directly with high pressure garden hose, it's going to leak. Alfine can be submerged/sprayed and it doesn't have any water intrusion.

Nexus 8R35/36 have the same external features, the Alfine 500/501 have the same external features.

Comparision:
Driveside sealing: Nexus dustcap pushes in, Alfine's screws, other features are the same. I suppose the Alfine's threaded dustcap seals a little better, IMHO, it's the same.

Non-driveside sealing: Alfine has labrynth seal like an XT MTB hub, the Nexus has a cone. When the Nexus has it's cover installed or a roller brake, it's going to be pretty good at keeping out normal riding spray. If the hub is submerged or sprayed directly with high pressure garden hose, it's going to leak. Alfine can be submerged/sprayed and it doesn't have any water intrusion.

Good to know for my upcoming shimano 8 speed wheel build.

I am thrilled with my Alfine. I ride a Giant Seek with the Alfine and the hydraulic disk brakes and the bike amazes me: reliable is the key word. The gears work, the wheels stay true and the stopping power is beyond what I would have previously thought possible.

Alfine alone is likely not the key because (IMHO) the entire bike works well together.

I have no experience with other IGH hubs or the like.

I paid $900 CDN for my Giant Seek 1 and think it the best value purchase I have made in decades.

I just got an Alfine 500 (the underlined version) and put it in service for daily commuting about 2 weeks ago. It has about 150-170 miles on it. Up to now, there were no problems with it.

On my way to work this morning at 24 degrees F, it would not shift into a lower gear. After a while (several minutes) and repeated efforts to downshift, it finally clunked and shifted. Further shift attempts were VERY sluggish.

I got this wheel for low-maintenance winter commutes. Is there any remedy for cold-weather freezes and sluggishness?

Do I need to put my derailleur wheel back on to get reliable shifting?

I have had some issues with my hub. (Had to have it replaced by REI). I ride it year-round and I don't think 24 degrees F is the problem though.

I ride a nexus 8 red-band that came on my breezer. I have no idea WHICH red-band version it is, but I rode it all through last winter in Wisconsin, even down to -17F. It worked fine. It did give a bit more resistance below zero, but it worked and it would shift well...at least between 1-2 & 3. I didn't have the gusto to go much more than that. I've ridden through 5 winters on my bikes. Clean the drivetrain once a week and use wet-lube and it will be fine. Also, don't bring it in and outdoors a lot. The freeze/melt thing promotes rust. I don't know if that is scientific, but its my observation. With my breezer and the fully enclosed chain-case I rode it for 6 weeks without touching it and when I opened it up to lube the chain it was pristine. I did have to lube the seals every now and then.

IMO, the redband is a fine product for a winter bike, and its not terribly pricey. If mine crapped out on me I would probably replace it with the current nexus model for the same use....primarily winter commuting.

I just got an Alfine 500 (the underlined version) and put it in service for daily commuting about 2 weeks ago. It has about 150-170 miles on it. Up to now, there were no problems with it.

On my way to work this morning at 24 degrees F, it would not shift into a lower gear. After a while (several minutes) and repeated efforts to downshift, it finally clunked and shifted. Further shift attempts were VERY sluggish.

I got this wheel for low-maintenance winter commutes. Is there any remedy for cold-weather freezes and sluggishness?

Do I need to put my derailleur wheel back on to get reliable shifting?

Owning one, from personal experience I doubt that the 24 degree temp is the main cause of your shifting issue.

Despite what they say about "not needing adjustments", there still are cable-stretch adjustments you can make to the alfine. I believe you set it the 4th gear and line up 2 yellow dots with a cable adjustment. Here's a video from Civia on how to do it:
http://www.civiacycles.com/civiaMedia/video/AlfineShiftCableAdjustment.mov

Owning one, from personal experience I doubt that the 24 degree temp is the main cause of your shifting issue.

After further thought, I tend to believe the problem is not internal, but due to icing on the cable where it leaves the cable housing near the cassette pulley.

It happened again this morning once at 26 degrees and only affects downshifting. This time, however, the downshift freed up in a few seconds. A little cable lube at the exit point should prevent ice buildup.

Glad to hear it was the cable/cassette joint, that was my suspision. There's a better cassette joint for cold/wet weather, it seals the cable/housing end. I haven't seen it for sale in the US, I suppose it could be mailed ordered from Europe.

There's a better cassette joint for cold/wet weather, it seals the cable/housing end. I haven't seen it for sale in the US, I suppose it could be mailed ordered from Europe.

This is the CJ-8S40, instead of the usual CJ-8S20. I don't think it can be mail ordered too easily. Google doesn't show much.

I am thrilled with my Alfine. I ride a Giant Seek with the Alfine and the hydraulic disk brakes and the bike amazes me: reliable is the key word. The gears work, the wheels stay true and the stopping power is beyond what I would have previously thought possible.

Alfine alone is likely not the key because (IMHO) the entire bike works well together.

I have no experience with other IGH hubs or the like.

I paid $900 CDN for my Giant Seek 1 and think it the best value purchase I have made in decades.


Another satisfied Seek1 user here. My only gripe is that there is just BARELY enough room in the back for Nokian 240 40mm studded tires to clear the chainstays. I rode last year with just a tiny bit of clearance. This year, I have decided to go with the Schwalbe Marathon Winter in the back. The Tires and rims just aren't as true as last year, so the smaller Schwalbe will give me a bit more room. I can't say enough about those shimano hydro brakes - LOVE THEM!

No issues with the Alfine in the cold, although I have stopped riding at below zero F temps.

Nexus 8 user here. IMO -the shifts are crisp and the range is fine for various terrain.

Same here, I really love mine. Can't beat it for the price.