Professional Cycling For the Fans - I wonder if AC is pissed...

I wonder how Contador feels to be over shadowed by the third place finisher. He gets first and wins the Tour overall and yet the third place finisher (Lance Armstrong for those of you who somehow live under a rock locked in a tomb), gets more attention. :lol:

Obviously, the US-media is biased towards US athletes. If you read the British papers, both Armstrong and Contador are overshadowed by Wiggins and Cavendish. I guarantee that Contador is not overshadowed in the Spanish press. Probably not in the French press, either.

He sure didn't look overshadowed on the podium. Lance, on the other hand, looked distinctly uncomfortable, like he was getting some kind of consolation prize.

Next year I'm looking forward to more racing, less team politics. Still waiting to see where Contador goes, but its bound to be a better situation.

He sure didn't look overshadowed on the podium. Lance, on the other hand, looked distinctly uncomfortable, like he was getting some kind of consolation prize.

Next year I'm looking forward to more racing, less team politics. Still waiting to see where Contador goes, but its bound to be a better situation.

Its probably better that Lance didn't go to the Astana team victory party last night. He would been a killjoy sitting there brooding over his beer. :lol:


I'm curious to see what Astana does for the Vuelta. Of course with no Lance, it will probably be harmony again.

Paul and Phil said that viewership of Le Tour is up 50-60% worldwide because of Lance!! They said the majority of the crowd was cheering for Lance. He is the Michael Jordan/Tiger Woods of Le Tour. You can't expect the American Media to ignore Lance in the tour. Whether you like him or not, he is could for the sport, unless he gets busted for doping, just as Tiger is good for golf. The more the sport grows in the US the more mainstream the sport goes and the better the support we receive on a local and National level. We should all hope that Lance stays around for several mroe years.

I wonder how Contador feels to be over shadowed by the third place finisher. He gets first and wins the Tour overall and yet the third place finisher (Lance Armstrong for those of you who somehow live under a rock locked in a tomb), gets more attention. :lol:

hell yeah he's pissed. he has been pissed for months because the team had already turned on him and he couldn't get out of his contract.

instead or launching a war of words in the media or via twitter contador trained harder and got into the best shape of his life.

while his team and the announcers maligned him in the press and the social messaging network contador let his legs do the talking.

could you imagine the gaps AC would have created if he were able to ride his own race? the competition really wasn't as tough as phil and paul led you to believe.

ed rader

It was this exact thing that caused sastre to pitch a fit last week. You gotta feel for a guy who's kicking ass and taking names, yet is regarded as the number 2 story on his own team.

He is the /Tiger Woods of Le Tour. .

I have a problem with this statement.

I have seen Tiger Woods play in person several times. He is spoiled, foul mouthed, and unpleasant to be near, and prone to 1/2 hour long temper tantrums. We walked away from the course during one of his foul mouthed rants, and I will not go back until this infant gorws up.

Armstrong gets a bad rap sometimes for his attitude (which wasn't that bad in the past, and is certainly good now). And Woods is treated like a god. Woods can only hope and aspire to be the athlete that Armstrong is.

Paul and Phil said that viewership of Le Tour is up 50-60% worldwide because of Lance!! They said the majority of the crowd was cheering for Lance. He is the Michael Jordan/Tiger Woods of Le Tour. You can't expect the American Media to ignore Lance in the tour. Whether you like him or not, he is could for the sport, unless he gets busted for doping, just as Tiger is good for golf. The more the sport grows in the US the more mainstream the sport goes and the better the support we receive on a local and National level. We should all hope that Lance stays around for several mroe years.

Hey, I don't mind the media swarming around him. Its the blind idol worship that has gotten out of hand that bothers me. Lance is great for the sport. No doubt.

But the idea that he didn't cause the rift on Astana has never been brought up by American tv media. Astana was fine before Lance showed. Now, because Contador wouldn't bend to Lance's will, there's a rift. And somehow AC is the problem. He demonstrated that he was the best GT rider by far in professional cycling. Lance wouldn't even go to the Astana "team" celebration the other night. But that never gets brought up. Only that somehow AC cost Kloden a shot at the podium. Get real. Nobody on Astana was capable of beating Andy Schleck outside of AC. Levi might have had a chance, but bad luck took him out.

Who's the one who's been making the backhanded comments about his teammate to the media throughout the Tour? Lance. Lance was first one making faces and comments about AC's attacks. If he's the true "team leader" then he needs to shut the f---up during the race. Lance has been pissed because AC wouldn't back down. When has it ever been okay for the "team leader" (in any sport) to air dirty laundry in the media? Never. If doesn't say anything, nobody even knows its an issue. He didn't know what was going on between AC, Kloden, and the Schlecks because his ass got dropped on the climb. But he's the first one makin' comments and talking about how it wasn't part of the plan. But the American media eats it up. Lance is above Tiger Woods and Michael Jordan when it comes to hero worship. The mainstream media has never taken shots at Lance like Tiger and Jordan have taken. Hell, Tiger gets rips if he refuses to comment on some non-golf related social issue. Lance comes in an disrupts the harmony of the top team in cycling and all is good. "That Contador kid is dumb....he's not a team player...he's hurting the team...."

Hell, I like Lance. I rooted for him in all of his TdF victories. He's done great work for cancer research and awareness. He's been great for raising the popularity of cycling. I respect the fact that he thought he could come in and win. Did a helluva job to get on the podium. But for him to act like he's blameless in this whole Astana situation is utter crap. And the media just completely ignores it. That's wrong. And that's what pisses off a lot of people.

But for him to act like he's blameless in this whole Astana situation is utter crap. And the media just completely ignores it. That's wrong. And that's what pisses off a lot of people.
Exactly.

Woods can only hope and aspire to be the athlete that Armstrong is.

A couple of visits to Dr. Ferrari and he'll be up there in no time!

orionkhan's posts are always 100% spot on...

He is spoiled, foul mouthed, and unpleasant to be near, and prone to 1/2 hour long temper tantrums. We walked away from the course during one of his foul mouthed rants, and I will not go back until this infant gorws up.

You described armstrong.

also, since the fanboys cant critique contador's athleticism, they resorted to attacking his intelligence. thats infantile behavior.


Armstrong gets a bad rap sometimes for his attitude (which ... is certainly good now)

my sarcasm meter hasnt gone off. maybe it needs new batteries

hell yeah he's pissed. he has been pissed for months because the team had already turned on him and he couldn't get out of his contract.

instead or launching a war of words in the media or via twitter contador trained harder and got into the best shape of his life.

while his team and the announcers maligned him in the press and the social messaging network contador let his legs do the talking.

could you imagine the gaps AC would have created if he were able to ride his own race? the competition really wasn't as tough as phil and paul led you to believe.


Indeed. I read an article, where he's quoted with saying, that this Tour was especially difficult and complicated for him, because he had to accomplish two victories - one in the Tour de France and one his team's hotel (yeah, apparently he was that explicit about it). And that Armstrong tried everything he could to undermine Contador's leadership. I think the chances of him ever working again with Bruyneel and/or Armstrong are exactly zero.

Armstrong also didn't appear happy or satisfied at all during Contadors tour d'honneur to Paris, despite playing the gracious sportsman in his public statements (which I do give him credit for).

I think it's very obvious now (and maybe we'll hear more about the specifics later), that the struggle between Contador and Armstrong was not tactics or "soap opera" to make the Tour more interesting - like some people claimed on Bikeforums - but a full on civil war in the Astana team.

So yes, Contador is pissed, but not for the reasons stated in the OP, and so is Armstrong also.

I wonder how Armstrong feels to be over shadowed by the winner of the Tour de France. He gets third and yet the winner (Alberto Contador for those of you who somehow live under a rock locked in a tomb), gets more attention. :lol:

corrected.

I have a problem with this statement.

I have seen Tiger Woods play in person several times. He is spoiled, foul mouthed, and unpleasant to be near, and prone to 1/2 hour long temper tantrums. We walked away from the course during one of his foul mouthed rants, and I will not go back until this infant gorws up.
Armstrong gets a bad rap sometimes for his attitude (which wasn't that bad in the past, and is certainly good now). And Woods is treated like a god. Woods can only hope and aspire to be the athlete that Armstrong is.


Yeah, you pretty much don't want your kids around him if he's playing bad. I lost count of the number of thrown clubs at the British Open.

For what he does in a round, in most golf clubs you'd get a warning letter, then a suspension.

For a good look, read "Are You Kidding Me?"...the book written by Feinstein about Mediate and Woods at the US Open last year.

Real bike racing is a nasty tough sport. Lance has been a good leader, getting people around him that will support the goal. A good observation yesterday on team building, where Lance is an expert, and Contador (if I recall the quote correctly) is not "smart enough" to do that.

Contador is a tremendous natural talent. But he would not ever have the control that Lance has had and will have.

Someone else mentioned Contador's desire to go to another team a while back...where's he going to go where the situation was different? Every team good enough to support a potential Tour winner already had a rider to support. And that's if they had any money.

What will be interesting to watch is what riders Lance and Bruyneel can attract to their new team.

Contador is a tremendous natural talent. But he would not ever have the control that Lance has had and will have.


Maybe I'm naive, but that was actually the primary thing I hated about Armstrong's TdF victories, how he always kept his team on such a short leash. I like captains that sometimes let the riders in their team do their own thing, achieve some glory in their own right, even if it's not helpful to the overall goal.

With Armstrong, everything and everyone was completely subordinate to the goal of getting the yellow jersey in Paris, without even an inch of leeway to allow anything else.

Agreed. I find Armstrong's style of racing rather boring.


Maybe I'm naive, but that was actually the primary thing I hated about Armstrong's TdF victories, how he always kept his team on such a short leash. I like captains that sometimes let the riders in their team do their own thing, achieve some glory in their own right, even if it's not helpful to the overall goal.

With Armstrong, everything and everyone was completely subordinate to the goal of getting the yellow jersey in Paris, without even an inch of leeway to allow anything else.

but the idea that he didn't cause the rift on astana has never been brought up by american tv media.

Who's the one who's been making the backhanded comments about his teammate to the media throughout the tour? Lance.

Hell, i like lance. I rooted for him in all of his tdf victories. He's done great work for cancer research and awareness. He's been great for raising the popularity of cycling. I respect the fact that he thought he could come in and win. Did a helluva job to get on the podium. But for him to act like he's blameless in this whole astana situation is utter crap. And the media just completely ignores it. That's wrong. And that's what pisses off a lot of people.

+1

Contador probably is a little pissed, though i imagine he's much happier now in paris than he was earlier in the tour.

I don't know whether Contador realized it or not (or cares) but Armstrong being in the Tour and being on Astana and being 3rd on the podium means that a heck of a lot of people know the name of Alberto Contador and his 4 victories who otherwise would have no idea and paid little attention. Regardless of what sort of media spin is put on which rider, anywhere there was Armstrong, there was Contador. "There's no such thing as bad publicity."

Posted this article on another thread. But its relevant here too.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090727/ap_on_sp_ot/cyc_tour_de_france_208

"Contador is that good, so I don't see how I would have been higher than that, even in the other years," said Armstrong, who won the Tour seven consecutive times from 1999 to 2005 before retiring. "I think his performance this year would have beaten my performances in '01 and '04 and '05."

Indeed. I read an article, where he's quoted with saying, that this Tour was especially difficult and complicated for him, because he had to accomplish two victories - one in the Tour de France and one his team's hotel (yeah, apparently he was that explicit about it). And that Armstrong tried everything he could to undermine Contador's leadership. I think the chances of him ever working again with Bruyneel and/or Armstrong are exactly zero.

It's not like Contador was the breaking a new story. Armstrong and Bruyneel had begun their insinuating sniping and twittering against Contador early in the second week, and anyone who couldn't see that something was wrong just wasn't paying attention. That Contador maintained was able to conduct himself to Paris with restraint and composure and still answer questions about the team so tactfully speaks well for himself. He will have no trouble finding a team for next year.

The only fans who think badly of Contador are the ones who hang on every word of Armstrong, Liggett, Sherwin, and Roll.

Contador probably is a little pissed, though i imagine he's much happier now in paris than he was earlier in the tour.

I don't know whether Contador realized it or not (or cares) but Armstrong being in the Tour and being on Astana and being 3rd on the podium means that a heck of a lot of people know the name of Alberto Contador and his 4 victories who otherwise would have no idea and paid little attention. Regardless of what sort of media spin is put on which rider, anywhere there was Armstrong, there was Contador. "There's no such thing as bad publicity."

And just how often did The Vrs. announcers point out that if Contador won this year he would be only the 3rd person ever to win 4 Grand Tours while still 26? I could have missed it, but surely they didn't point it out often. If Contador was American we would have had that pointed out almost every stage. Of course if Contador had real team support we may well also have had the chance to be asking when was the last time someone won the TDF by more than 10 minutes.

Oh yea, the other 2 riders to have 4 wins while still 26 are Merckx and Hinault.

And just how often did The Vrs. announcers point out that if Contador won this year he would be only the 3rd person ever to win 4 Grand Tours while still 26? I could have missed it, but surely they didn't point it out often. If Contador was American we would have had that pointed out almost every stage. Of course if Contador had real team support we may well also have had the chance to be asking when was the last time someone won the TDF by more than 10 minutes.

Oh yea, the other 2 riders to have 4 wins while still 26 are Merckx and Hinault.

i think contador beat hinault's age record record for winninng all three GTs too.

ed rader

And just how often did The Vrs. announcers point out that if Contador won this year he would be only the 3rd person ever to win 4 Grand Tours while still 26? I could have missed it, but surely they didn't point it out often. If Contador was American we would have had that pointed out almost every stage. Of course if Contador had real team support we may well also have had the chance to be asking when was the last time someone won the TDF by more than 10 minutes.

Oh yea, the other 2 riders to have 4 wins while still 26 are Merckx and Hinault.

i'm not saying Versus is unbiased. i'm not saying contador shouldn't get a fairer share of airtime. what i'm saying is that there are X amount of people in the world who watched the tour because of armstrong that otherwise wouldn't have ever tuned in, and unless they happened to tune in 2 years ago, would have no idea who the hell Contador is. I'm not talking about the number of times his name/achievements are mentioned, i'm talking about the number of people who are paying attention when they are mentioned.

Lance announcing his new team 2 days before the end of the TdF allows him to celebrate while Contador celebrates victory. I think it was pretty political that LA annouced it while the tour was still on, IMO...not a very classy move. Finish the tour let the boy have his fun then announce your new team.

Lance announcing his new team 2 days before the end of the TdF allows him to celebrate while Contador celebrates victory. I think it was pretty political that LA annouced it while the tour was still on, IMO...not a very classy move. Finish the tour let the boy have his fun then announce your new team.

well astana announced that Brunyeel and company wouldn't be back...that's why I imagine they released the Team Radio Shack news like they did.

There was a short "personal profile" section on Contador aired on Mont Ventoux stage (or the previous one),
saying he read Lance's book, It's not about the bike, when he had surgery on the head after crashing several years ago. And Contador said Lance was a great inspiration to him... The timing to air this was suspicious.

Anyways, enough team politics and finger pointing this year. Next year will be great.

Lance announcing his new team 2 days before the end of the TdF allows him to celebrate while Contador celebrates victory. I think it was pretty political that LA annouced it while the tour was still on, IMO...not a very classy move. Finish the tour let the boy have his fun then announce your new team.

lance is a self-serving jerk. now even you are starting to see what many of us have known for years...

ed rader

Maybe I'm naive, but that was actually the primary thing I hated about Armstrong's TdF victories, how he always kept his team on such a short leash. I like captains that sometimes let the riders in their team do their own thing, achieve some glory in their own right, even if it's not helpful to the overall goal.

With Armstrong, everything and everyone was completely subordinate to the goal of getting the yellow jersey in Paris, without even an inch of leeway to allow anything else.


So nobody else got a single thing?

Like Victor Hugo Pena in yellow.

Like Hincapie's win. As a couple of examples.

Here's the thing that's hard for amateurs to grasp....these guys were/are professionals, signed to make a lot of money (more so than on other teams) to do a job. No more, no less. And they did it.

Now, do you think the riders that were there for Lance's wins got more extra money from Lance or from Contador? Who do you think took care of his guys, financially, better?

And I cannot recall hearing any *****ing.

I cannot ever, in my entire life recall any wins, boring.

I love how people can judge a high degree of sucess, as in this case, like anyone'd have a clue.

What a laugh.

VS was airing for the U.S. market, so we'll certainly have a strong bias of favoritism for U.S. riders. What's so freakin' hard to comprehend?

I bet the Spanish media was having a heyday with Contador's win, and rightfully so.

Along those lines, I think this is the best TdF that the French have seen for their own countrymen's wins in a long while, so I'm sure the French media played on those victories as well.

Regardless, I believe Lance's return to competitive cycling is good for the U.S. mindset in embracing this sport. The ToC is getting more press as well. Having a major event again on U.S. soil is good for all American cyclists.

I wonder how Contador feels to be over shadowed by the third place finisher. He gets first and wins the Tour overall and yet the third place finisher (Lance Armstrong for those of you who somehow live under a rock locked in a tomb), gets more attention. :lol:

Easy to fix. Win 7 tours in a row and grow up. Lance is the man.

lance is a self-serving jerk.

Inside all of us it exists. He also balances that out with massive contributions to fight cancer.

lance is a self-serving jerk. now even you are starting to see what many of us have known for years...

ed rader

Takes one to know one!

So nobody else got a single thing?

Like Victor Hugo Pena in yellow.

Like Hincapie's win. As a couple of examples.


Wow, you can think of two examples from seven years, I'm super impressed.

Lance announcing his new team 2 days before the end of the TdF allows him to celebrate while Contador celebrates victory. I think it was pretty political that LA annouced it while the tour was still on, IMO...not a very classy move. Finish the tour let the boy have his fun then announce your new team.

+1. I thought this was just the typical petulance for Lance, he just can't seem to tolerate the spotlight on anyone else.

.

With Armstrong, everything and everyone was completely subordinate to the goal of getting the yellow jersey in Paris, without even an inch of leeway to allow anything else.

Incorrect.

Hincapie won the Queen Stage of the TDF, while riding support for Armstrong. In fact, Hincapie's role as support for armstrong allowed him to sit on the winning break doing little work and take the stage.

Also, Armstrong clearly tried to give Landis a stage win, in Verbier in 2004, and only took the stage himself when Landis could not take Kloden.

So while the Postal/Discovery TDF teams were clearly calculated for the one purpose of winning the race, it was not always about Armstrong.

Moreover, those teams were structured to allow various team members to focus on goals other than the TDF, in exchange for focusing on Armstrong winning the TDF, such as Heras in the Vuelta, and Hincapie in the classics.

Wow, you can think of two examples from seven years, I'm super impressed.

Oh, I could have gone with more, but once you are proven wrong what's the point? That's just piling on.

Just pointing out another ridiculous post. Besides, you went right to Google to figure out who Victor Hugo Pena was anyway...

lance is a self-serving jerk. now even you are starting to see what many of us have known for years...

ed rader

Here's a thought. If you ever do NOT think this, post it in one of the threads about Lance. Otherwise, we'll all take it as a given and save everyone time and space.

Here's a thought. If you ever do NOT think this, post it in one of the threads about Lance. Otherwise, we'll all take it as a given and save everyone time and space.

He can't help himself. He is consumed with Lance hatred. I imagine he posts the same junk on other forums and I would not doubt he posts here under other user names.

He can't help himself. He is consumed with Lance hatred. I imagine he posts the same junk on other forums and I would not doubt he posts here under other user names.

i don't post under different names, ever. why would you accuse me of such a thing?

ed rader

Did he ever win/enter any of these Euro Classics? Tour of Flanders, Roubaix, Liege/Bastonge, La Vuelta d'Espana, Switzerland, etc?
Yes, he's won TdeF, but not this time.
There's lotsa younger folks that are as good . . . even better this year.
Hats off to A. Contador and A. Schleck!

I think it's very obvious now (and maybe we'll hear more about the specifics later), that the struggle between Contador and Armstrong was not tactics or "soap opera" to make the Tour more interesting - like some people claimed on Bikeforums - but a full on civil war in the Astana team.

You are right, I was completely off base. It is sad to see how the team imploded in the aftermath of the tour. Unfortunately, I've lost a lot of respect for Lance this year.

Here's hoping that in the coming year we can have less internal team drama, and more good racing.

Unfortunately, I've lost a lot of respect for Lance this year.

Here's hoping that in the coming year we can have less internal team drama, and more good racing.

I feel the same way.

I hold Lance more responsible for the Astana situation than anyone. He's the older, more experienced guy. But he knew he was joining the team with the best grand tour rider in cycling. He said he wanted to raise cancer awareness and be a good teammate. But it became clear that he wanted to win. And he wanted the team to follow his plan. And he was upset that Contador did not step aside and follow his lead. He should never have made the public statements and twitters during the race. A true leader doesn't air the teams internal strife to the public during the competition.

Johan Bruyneel bears a significant amount of the blame. He allowed the situation to fester and finally erupt during the race. He's no dummy. He knew who was clearly the stronger rider. But he didn't have the guts to stand up the Lance. At no point did he ever come out and publically say it. This allowed Lance to take control. Additionally, he let his ambition get in the way of his management. The idea that he was concerned about getting multiple guys on the podium before they had the yellow jersey on the team is foolish.

Alberto Contador is not blameless. He did go against team orders. And we don't know what was said behind closed doors. Perhaps it was language barrier problem. Perhaps he didn't tell Lance to his face that he was the number 1 rider and the plan should be adapted to him. He tried to hold it in during the race. But he shouldn't be letting it out now. He should let it go and move on.

Hopefully, they'll all move on and let it go. I know I have. I'm tired of hearing about it.

I feel the same way.

I hold Lance more responsible for the Astana situation than anyone. He's the older, more experienced guy. But he knew he was joining the team with the best grand tour rider in cycling. He said he wanted to raise cancer awareness and be a good teammate. But it became clear that he wanted to win. And he wanted the team to follow his plan. And he was upset that Contador did not step aside and follow his lead. He should never have made the public statements and twitters during the race. A true leader doesn't air the teams internal strife to the public during the competition.

Johan Bruyneel bears a significant amount of the blame. He allowed the situation to fester and finally erupt during the race. He's no dummy. He knew who was clearly the stronger rider. But he didn't have the guts to stand up the Lance. At no point did he ever come out and publically say it. This allowed Lance to take control. Additionally, he let his ambition get in the way of his management. The idea that he was concerned about getting multiple guys on the podium before they had the yellow jersey on the team is foolish.

.

+1000000000

We must thank Lance Armstrong , because of him we can watch Le Tour in US TV. When Lemond won, which was actually pretty awsome, I dont think many people in the States realized what a breakthrough it was. At the same time the essence of Le Tour de France is lost in the awful production of the VRS coverage. Full of commercial breaks, commentaries lacking true insight and incredible bias towards specific teams and racers. I watched TDF last year with a visual on online feed from DK-1 and live commentaries from Eurosports. The resolution was not great but it was far more superior in production value than the VRS hour long commercial with some TDF in between.
The commentators from VRS failed to point out Lance Armstrong breaking the team rules when he decided to beat Contador by 2 seconds at the beginning stages. Lance deserves a Contador!!! I actually applauded Contador's resolve in establishing who is the better one by leaving Armstrong behind. I wonder what would have happened if Levi had not retired.
Anyhow like we say back home...

Armstrong C**ron, Alberto Campeon!!!! :roflmao2:

AC should definitely be pissed at the ASO for playing the wrong national anthem.

DJ: "Which national anthem do I play"
MC: "Just hit play, we haven't changed the CD since 2007"

***anish, yeah that should work.

Orion, you are spot on. I never would have believed it two weeks ago, at least not to the same degree that I do know. The whole situation is a real downer. I will try to make that the last I say about it and move on. I'll focus on keeping my fingers crossed that Contador lands on Garmin!

lance is a self-serving jerk. now even you are starting to see what many of us have known for years...

Certainly. I saw this as I was reading It's Not About the Bike.

lance is a self-serving jerk. now even you are starting to see what many of us have known for years...

ed rader


Like some others, it also took me some time to see the light, but all his constant whining showed me his true colors. yes, whining. Armstrong is the biggest whiner of them all. It's such a paradox that he plays the victim card. How the french are out to get him. How he markets himself as the superman everybody wants to bring down. How he claims that all these former people associated with him are liars. How he claims that he is the most tested. How he sues anybody that crosses him.

FINALLY, enough is enough. I was a fan in 93, after the world's, but no more. I wish that he just retire once and for all. It's time for cycling to move on without Armstrong.