Touring - Tent sleeping

My wife and I have two basic tent configurations: 4-person tent for car camping with a large, heavy air mattress, and a lighter 3-person tent with Thermarests for touring. We sleep well on the air mattress, but not on the Thermarests. On our last tour, we alternated camping and B&Bs so we could actually get some sleep, but that gets expensive.

Does anyone else have these problems? Has anyone come up with a sleeping setup that's more comfortable than inflatable sleeping pads or foam pads, but not as heavy as a full air mattress? Is there anything in between the two? Perhaps padding the sleeping pads with foam, or doubling up? On what setup do you sleep well?

I sleep very well on a regular Thermarest, but the Thermarest NeoAir is much more cushy and lighter to boot. It seems excessively expensive, but I like it well enough to bite the bullet.

For myself an air mattress is an absolute must. I've never found a pad set-up that was good enough.

But there's room to downsize the air mattress a bit. They have low profile types. They look a lot like those flotation mattresses that you'll find in swimming pools, with heavier fabric. Not heavy and folds up small.

But even if it weighed 100 lbs, I'd lug it along for the sake of sleep. Just can't do without that. I guess some people can sleep on pads, but not me. It sounds like you're in the same spot.

I have two Exped mattresses that are similar to the Thermarest NeoAir mentioned in post #2. My Expeds have a lifetime warranty and are also expensive...$110-ish. One has down fill, the other has synthetic with a built-in pump...and is thicker, wider, longer...MUCH nicer than my old std thermarest! My down Exped is on the narrow side and used its bag as an inflation device...more of a hassle and I found that I did not need the extra temperature benefit of the down.
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31bLCuEVPUL._SL500_AA280_.jpg

I know people who swear by this little cot for touring, they say it's as comfortable as bed at home.

http://www.luxurylite.com/cotindex.html

I tried the therma rest self inflating mats. they were only slightly better than nothing and a pain to packup every morning. I used a Big Agnes air mat for about a year but inflating it by mouth every night was a hassle.

I really like the Exped synmat deluxe and the air mat series. I currently tour with an Exped Airmat 7.5 Deluxe. The deluxe versions have a built in pump, basicly a valve with a foam chamber that allows one to easily pump up the mat. The airmat series do not have any insulation and pack very small.

Jeff

If you're willing to blow it up yourself, you can get twice the comfort of a self-inflating pad for no more weight. I've given up on self-inflating pads.

Here's what works for me. I use a Thermorest self inflating mat (long version), but after it self inflates, I blow it up manually until it's reasonably firm. I know I'm not supposed to do this, but it's the only way it works for me.

I also carry an honest-to-goodness real pillow in a dry bag. It's a bit smaller than my regular pillow at home, but not by much. I'm a side sleeper and I'm miserable if my head isn't supported well with my shoulder against the ground/mat.

It took a bit of experimentation for me to find the setup that allows me to sleep well. Now that I've found it, I'm thankful every morning on tour.

20" wide mattress will force me to sleep on my side. If I sleep on my back then my
arms will roll off and feel numb. I sleep better with a 25" wide mattress. The other
items already posted seem pretty good too. Unfortunately they are wish list items
for me.

Here's what works for me. I use a Thermorest self inflating mat (long version), but after it self inflates, I blow it up manually until it's reasonably firm. I know I'm not supposed to do this, but it's the only way it works for me.

Not so, their web pages says:
"How do Therm-a-Rest self-inflating mattresses self-inflate?

When you open the valve, the open-celled foam responds by soaking up air, similar to a sponge absorbing liquid. Once the mattress has inflated, you can adjust the firmness by adding a few breaths or letting air out. It's that simple."



I also carry an honest-to-goodness real pillow in a dry bag. It's a bit smaller than my regular pillow at home, but not by much.
Me too but mine is a good bit smaller (maybe 11x17 or so) and I stuff it in the stuff sack with my sleeping bag. It is my luxury item.

BTW: The NeoAir takes only about 15 breaths for me to inflate.

I know people who swear by this little cot for touring, they say it's as comfortable as bed at home.

http://www.luxurylite.com/cotindex.html

my word, what will they think of next! :D Almost wish I didn't sleep so well on hard ground so I could buy one of these (BF is getting to me ;)

I sleep just fine on Thermarest pads, I have a couple sizes for different uses. The Luxurylite cots are a bit to much for me I'm sure I'd lose parts and render the thing useless. One friend who likes his is a bit on the heavy side, so foam pads compress under his weight, so the cot is working great for him. The down side is the price too, I think $220 is high, but a good nights sleep is hard to put a price on.

Exped Downmat works for me!

How well does the 20" wide mattress pads work? Seems a bit small when my shoulders gotta be at least 26" wide.

Several years back, I went backpacking in Guadalupe Mtns NP late in the fall. No fires allowed, windy and cold at night, nothing to do at dark but climb in the sleeping bag.

First night, I woke up every half hour or so when I turned over.
Second night, I woke up two or three times.
Third night, I slept right through, 12 hours worth.
So I think maybe part of it is just getting used to it. Switching back and forth every night may have worked against you.

The thinner you are, the better you fit the ground, I've found.

The thinner you are, the better you fit the ground, I've found.

Not me, I'm afraid.

Here's what works for me. I use a Thermorest self inflating mat (long version), but after it self inflates, I blow it up manually until it's reasonably firm. ...

I also carry an honest-to-goodness real pillow in a dry bag. It's a bit smaller than my regular pillow at home, but not by much. I'm a side sleeper and I'm miserable if my head isn't supported well with my shoulder against the ground/mat.

I also blow the thermarest up as firm as I can. It's the only way it sort of works.

Maybe I should bite the pillow bullet too. So far I went with rolled up fleece and such things, but they unroll, and they don't provide really provide enough support. Got a trip with some camping next week, and am dreading the non-sleep angle of it all.

I also blow the thermarest up as firm as I can. It's the only way it sort of works.
That is definitely not my experience. I find that the key is to get the pressure just right, but definitely not as firm as I can get it. It is extremely easy to get too much air in it. I usually blow it up a bit firm and then let air out until I almost bottom out. Different strokes though.

I used to have trouble sleeping in a tent on my small thermarest, but I did some experimenting and I came up with something that worked ... and that something involved a whole bunch of inflatable pillows.

Quoting from my 2007 European Tour account:

After much experimentation with the sleeping equipment I carry with me, I devised my most comfortable setup. First, my thermarest is more comfortable than sleeping with no mattress (I did that on my tour of Wales), or sleeping with one of those thin foam mattresses (I did that on my tour of Australia). Next, the most comfortable pillow setup for me is to use my clothing pannier as the base of my pillow structure, with my inflatable neck pillow on top to support my neck, and my inflatable Decathlon pillow propped against that pannier to support my back. Then my old faithful red inflatable pillow goes under my knees.

What's funny is my greatest comfort is using a cheap high density foam pad and siting my tent well. Look for untrampled ground, inspect the tent placement site for rocks, etc, and I sleep like a baby. I sleep better camping in a tent than I do at home on my bed.

I also blow the thermarest up as firm as I can. It's the only way it sort of works.

Maybe I should bite the pillow bullet too. So far I went with rolled up fleece and such things, but they unroll, and they don't provide really provide enough support. Got a trip with some camping next week, and am dreading the non-sleep angle of it all.

use compression bags to pack your clothing, and use them to form pillows

Several years back, I went backpacking in Guadalupe Mtns NP late in the fall.
First night, I woke up every half hour or so when I turned over.
Second night, I woke up two or three times.
Third night, I slept right through, 12 hours worth.
So I think maybe part of it is just getting used to it. Switching back and forth every night may have worked against you.

I had a similar experience backpacking when I melted my air mattress inadvertantly. The first night I awoke every 10 min all night, After that I slept soundly with only a ground cloth and sleeping bag for the next 8 weeks: of course it was 38 years ago...

I have had good luck with the Big Agnes inflated pad, seems like the "inbetween" that you mentioned. It's 2" thick and plenty light enough for bike touring. The key is to put just enough air into it so you don't touch ground, sleeps well.

http://www.bigagnes.com/Products/ProductFinder/Pad/filters/34

or just sleep in a hammock.
i get a better nights sleep in my hennessey hammock than i do in my bed at home.

Cyril

I have had good luck with the Big Agnes inflated pad, seems like the "inbetween" that you mentioned. It's 2" thick and plenty light enough for bike touring. The key is to put just enough air into it so you don't touch ground, sleeps well.

http://www.bigagnes.com/Products/ProductFinder/Pad/filters/34

+1
I use this for backpacking and canoe camping too. It takes me less than 5 minutes to inflate. Being that I cary a frame pump with me when I tour I could probably rig something up to inflate with that if I was more ambitious.

Thermarest on top of a closed-cell foam mattress works for me, after the first night or two of sleeplessness. I agree a real pillow is a luxury item worth carrying.

What's funny is my greatest comfort is using a cheap high density foam pad and siting my tent well. Look for untrampled ground, inspect the tent placement site for rocks, etc, and I sleep like a baby. I sleep better camping in a tent than I do at home on my bed.

I second this, aside from the sleeping like a baby part. Tent siting is important for me. Part of that is making sure that my head isn't below my feet. Last tour I made that mistake one night and had to rearrange myself in the middle of the night.

Part of that is making sure that my head isn't below my feet. Last tour I made that mistake one night and had to rearrange myself in the middle of the night.

This is true. Having my head higher than my feet is almost as bad, though; I tend to slide towards the bottom of the tent. Perhaps an insulated pad would help. (My sleeping bag is also slippery.)

I'm leaning towards getting better pillows and a better sleeping bag, then looking at the mattress/pad.

How well does the 20" wide mattress pads work? Seems a bit small when my shoulders gotta be at least 26" wide.
Me too! I need the 25" wide for my back-sleeping self. THe 20" pads let my shoulders roll to the back and "Ugh" the next morning.
Wanting to save for a Exped, not sure if they come in extra wide version? (I'm fixing to look now...)
Best, John

I use the Big Agnes Insulated Air Core air mattress (extra long, mummy style.) There's a new Thermarest out that is very thick and light, but I don't know the name offhand.

Whether I use the Big Agnes, a Thermarest, or the L. L. Bean Camp Futon I use for car camping, the procedure is the same. Inflate fully, lay on it, let air out slowly until the first part of my body touches the ground. Stop. It works well for me.

There's a new Thermarest out that is very thick and light, but I don't know the name offhand.

That would be the NeoAir. I used it on my latest tour and am very impressed by its comfort, light weight, and small packing size. The price seems a little steep, but I feel that it was worth it.

or just sleep in a hammock.
I get a better nights sleep in my hennessey hammock than i do in my bed at home.

Cyril

+1

I've been using this pillow recently have loved it. Alittle smaller than what I am used to but packs small & light.
http://cascadedesigns.com/Therm-A-Rest/Sleep-Systems/Camp-And-Comfort-Sleep-Systems/Compressible-Pillow/product

I'm a tosser & turner at night but with this pillow & a thermarest I find that if I consciously stay laying on my back all night I get better sleep. I too find I sleep better by the 3rd day into a trip though. The first night out sucks, especially when stealth camping. Naps at lunch time help too!

I am glad it worked out well for you, but... I found it too "squishy" for me and way too expensive ($28 at REI for the large). This was the case for all of the dedicated camping pillows I looked at. I bought a similar sized pillow at a fabric store for seven or eight bucks. So I saved $20 and found it much more comfortable (it was a good bit firmer). I manage to stuff it in the same stuff sack as my sleeping bag so in effect it takes of no extra space, it just makes the stuffing a bit more difficult.

Hi,

http://exped.ch Look at the Downmat 7 or 9. This will solve your problem. Another advange: The packing volumne is quite small (nearly the same as TAR 2,8 short)

Thomas

or just sleep in a hammock.
i get a better nights sleep in my hennessey hammock than i do in my bed at home.

Cyril

I was curious if anyone used hammocks. A friend has an Eagle's Nest Outfitters hammock that I have napped in... very comfy. I plan to get one before making a SMALL tour that i keep saying I'm going to do each summer (for the past 3). But yeah, you need a decent site for the hammock.
They do have some straps that make it VERY easy to hang, even with varying widths of hang points. But, if there isn't somewhere to hang it... there isn't somewhere to hang it. Also, not sure a hammock is smart in colder climates.... but I'm in TX.

I find the hammock idea intriguing. But I wonder what does one do when you can't find two trees appropriate distance apart?

That would be the NeoAir. I used it on my latest tour and am very impressed by its comfort, light weight, and small packing size. The price seems a little steep, but I feel that it was worth it.

Good to know. Glad it's working well.
I've considered the NeoAir and hesitated because of some negative reviews. Apparently, there are some leaking issues?
I'm curious how this performs over some time. Please keep us posted.
It's a pricy mat, but the thickness and light weight are impressive!

I haven't used the Clark Jungle Hammock as a ground shelter. There are demo pics of this at
his site. My favorite pillow is a Coleman. I can use it to just support my neck if I want.

Good to know. Glad it's working well.
I've considered the NeoAir and hesitated because of some negative reviews. Apparently, there are some leaking issues?
I'm curious how this performs over some time. Please keep us posted.
It's a pricy mat, but the thickness and light weight are impressive!

I haven't had any problems yet and think the material looks just as durable as the regular thermarests and they have held up very well for me. I did hear reports of a few of the first batches of NeoAirs leaking right out of the box though. I guess time will tell how well they hold up.

i have several home made hammocks and tarps. these are my preferred way to camp out.

www.hammockcamping.com has tons of info as does www.backpacking.net

I have not used any other type of hammock but the speer types. they are great....

i have endoured rain storms so severe tht all the tenters were wet because the water could not be soaked up by the ground and flood the tnts... i was just fine.. woke up in the middle of a *pond* nearly knee deep....

what do I do when there are not trees? boulders, railings, whatever I can tie off to. if that does not work, then I just put the hammock on the ground as a ground cloth...


i really like the ease of hammocking as well.... i have been able to pitch a tarp and hammock rather than hike or ride through big storms, better waiting in comfort for an hour than being miserable and soaked....

One thing that you need ot know is hammocking is cooler than tenting.. ie. the air circulating under the hammock will cool you off.. I usually just stick a camping mat thingy (not sure what they are called in English... a foam thing you roll up and tie to your backpack when hiking) in the hammock... and that is what I lay on if I end up on the gorund for lack of hanging points....

all 3 of my kids prefer hammocks to sleeping the ground too..

robi

My first picture shows the 4 season Clark Hammock with the nylon sides zipped down for
cold weather, looks like a pea pod. This picture shows the underslung pockets for sliding
in foam pads to prevent my brains from freezing.:) Warm weather I stowed a water bladder,
bag of chips and a pee bottle.

Although I invariably sleep with my feet pointing towards the sea (if it is visible) my grandfather taught me that sleeping with your head to the north will give you a better night's sleep... strange as it may seem whichever direction I start sleeping in I rotate slowly during the night to be more on a N-S line... Sorry if you think this post is a load of codswallop! ;) :D hihi

Had some time to look up the site....
http://www.eaglesnestoutfittersinc.com/
The photogallery has TONS of pics of the different hammocks they offer.


The straps they sell make it very easy to hang at different lenghts...

Quote from slap strap pro section...
"If you can find two trees or sturdy objects between 10-20 feet apart, you have the perfect anchors."


If you start adding the straps, tarp, pillow, etc etc.... cost could add up QUICKLY. But the hammock IS very light.

Thanks for the link Chevy 4283. I was securing my hammock with a round turn and 2 and a half hitches.
The hitch pro is something I could definately use.

I find the hammock idea intriguing. But I wonder what does one do when you can't find two trees appropriate distance apart?

You can use your Hennessy Hammock as a bivy sack in a pinch. I carry my Big Agnes Air Core mattress in case that happens. The Air Core packs very small and light and is very comfortable.

Alps Engineering Therma Rest thing with a valve to blow some air in. I can sleep all night on that. And I aint no spring chicken

making a speer type hammock takes about half an hour if you do not know how to sew. they are easy and cheap.

tarps are just as easy and cheap to make.

it really is very easy. it is where I learned to sew and since have made several things.. give it a try.

there i no need for a pillow... i cannot sleep on my back or without a pillow in bed or on the ground... in a hammock. i often end up on my side or belly, but just as often end up sleeping on my back.... and i only use a pillow if car capming... i never carry one in my panniers or backpack....

so, sew a speer hammock, toss it up in the yard on the prch, wherever you can, take a test nap and you will be hooked on hammocking and sewing.

robi