Training & Nutrition - Electrolytes: How much, which ones?

Sodium, found adequately in the American diet. But we need more on hot days and longer rides...how much more? What kinds of numbers should I be looking at? Potassium is a key electrolyte for riding, also...how much should I be looking at intaking? Is there a range? Some sports drinks have like 50 mg (~2% DV) and some bars have 3-400, which says it's around 10-12% of your daily value...huge difference. Why is there such a seemingly insignificant amount in sports products? What other electrolytes should I be concerned about taking on longer rides? Calcium, magnesium, vitamin C? How long of a ride should I start even taking electrolytes? (Surely I don't need them during an hour long ride). Final conundrum, can anybody explain to me why raisins are loaded with potassium but grape juice shows none? ::Jerry Seinfeld voice::...whaaaaaaat's the deeeaaal?

Wow, there are a lot of questions in that post! I just take Hammer E-Caps and don't read all the fine print. Not sure what's in them, but they sure work for me. I take two at every checkpoint on a double century; no cramps for me!

Rick / OCRR

It depends a lot on how long you are riding, and your own personal physiology. Very generally speaking, if you are doing rides of 3 hours or less and you eat a good diet, you are probably fine without much supplementation.

If you go on longer rides, you may need some supplementation. If you ride in the hot, sodium can be pretty important for some people - without it, you can go hyponatremic, which can be life-threatening. Generally not an issue for most people until you get above the century distance and 6ish hour rides.

If you ride in the hot, sodium can be pretty important for some people - without it, you can go hyponatremic, which can be life-threatening.

This.

I start getting hypnoatremia symptoms in the hot like no one's business. Usually a general feeling of apathy/disassociation, clammy/cold hands, and a tingling sensation in my limbs. Sodium is important.

What has worked for me so far:
Below 85 degrees - 1/4tsp. salt in my water, banana/avocados for potassium.
90+ hot weather - Nuun tablets in the water, banana as daily diet, plenty of water throughout the day ideally. Limit the coffee and other diuretics and make sure to replace the liquid lost with water.

Read everything in the Endurance Library - link is on this page:
http://www.hammernutrition.com/za/HNT?PAGE=KNOWLEDGE

I like Hammer products. If its hot like up the Glendora Mountain Road to Baldy, I would certainly need their Sustained Energy or Perpetum product.

Consuming sodium during exercise has not been shown to have any positive effect on the body. It is nothing more than clever advertising by companies like Gatorade and Hammer.

http://www.sportsscientists.com/2007/11/sports-drinks-sweat-and-electrolytes_27.html

Consuming sodium during exercise has not been shown to have any positive effect on the body. It is nothing more than clever advertising by companies like Gatorade and Hammer.

http://www.sportsscientists.com/2007/11/sports-drinks-sweat-and-electrolytes_27.htmlThis is a good study, quoted by Hammer in support of their Endurolyte product. The advantage of capsules is that you can increase or decrease the quantity of electrolyte without reference to the quantity of water ingested. But if you think consuming sodium or any other electrolyte during exercise has no positive effect, you've never ridden even a "short" brevet like a 400k. :lol: We'll be waiting for your ride report. The problem with this study which makes it rather silly for cyclists is that it's only for a 2-hour period. Heck, you don't even need to drink water on a 2-hour ride, much less take electrolytes.

Where do you suppose that serum sodium graph is headed? If you can't turn that around, you are, how do we say it, dead?

I believe the study is also correct in assuming ad libitum drinking is the way to go. And notice the comments about drinking beer as a recovery beverage. Right on.

The amount of salt you need depends on your physiology, the temperature and how long you are riding. You will need to experiment to find out what you need. It may be nothing. I don't think that potassium, calcium or vitamin C are an issue for anyone.


I need to start supplementing salt for rides over four hours if it's really hot (like 100 or more), and rides over five hours if it's 80 or warmer. I use endurolytes, and if the ride is long or hot or both, salt tablets. Endurolytes don't have enough salt for me for long hot rides.

At the highest I aim for about 350 mg/hr of sodium.. that's including what's in the sports drink and food. I have seen recommendations for 1000mg/hr but that is based on replenishing what is lost in sweat (which is itself highly variable across individuals). But most people's digestive system can't handle that much.

This is a good study, quoted by Hammer in support of their Endurolyte product. The advantage of capsules is that you can increase or decrease the quantity of electrolyte without reference to the quantity of water ingested. But if you think consuming sodium or any other electrolyte during exercise has no positive effect, you've never ridden even a "short" brevet like a 400k. :lol: We'll be waiting for your ride report. The problem with this study which makes it rather silly for cyclists is that it's only for a 2-hour period. Heck, you don't even need to drink water on a 2-hour ride, much less take electrolytes.

Where do you suppose that serum sodium graph is headed? If you can't turn that around, you are, how do we say it, dead?

I believe the study is also correct in assuming ad libitum drinking is the way to go. And notice the comments about drinking beer as a recovery beverage. Right on.

Apparently you took offense to me having a difference of opinion. You are entitled to yours, as I am to my own. You can continue to waste your money. And you are right, I have never ridden 250 miles straight, I wonder how many people do on the average weekend?

Hammer Nutrition

For instance, by the time you feel thirsty, you could have a 2% body-weight water loss, already into the impairment zone.


Authors from Science of Sport blog, both PHDs

Since then a number of studies have been performed at races and other endurance events, and the one main finding of all of these studies is that athletes replace only between 40-60% of their weight losses, and complete the race 2-5% "dehydrated."

Despite this fact, from real athletes competing in real events, many scientific articles and lay magazines continue to emphasize that "dehydration" of this magnitude (2-5% of the pre-race weight) is detrimental to health and or performance. This is the basis for the many advertisements proclaiming the importance of drinking to runners, as we discussed in Post I of this series.

The evidence from all the field studies, however, shows rather that changes in body weight of this magnitude are not associated with collapse and high core temperatures. One reason for this is likely because, as we stated in a comment to another post (http://scienceofsport.blogspot.com/2007/10/investigating-heatstroke-how-fast-do.html), the body weight is not the regulated variable, and so even if you lose some weight the body is fine, and is in fact responding normally to that exercise. We will examine that concept in the next post in this series.

http://www.sportsscientists.com/2007/10/fluid-intake-dehydration-and-exercise_21.html


To the original poster, read the studies and decide for yourself. What do you expect Hammer Nutrition and the people from the Gatorade Institute to say? I simply decide to believe in doctors that have done the research themselves and can personally attest to the results.

Consuming sodium during exercise has not been shown to have any positive effect on the body. It is nothing more than clever advertising by companies like Gatorade and Hammer.

http://www.sportsscientists.com/2007/11/sports-drinks-sweat-and-electrolytes_27.html

It's pretty simple.

When you exercise, you lose sodium through sweat, and you take in sodium when you eat/drink.

How much you lose when you sweat depends on your personal genetics, how hot it is, and how much training you do in the heat.

How much you take in depends on what you eat and drink.

If the amount you are taking in is less than what you are losing, you have a deficit, which eats into the ready reserves that you have (you have a lot of sodium in your body, but most of it is bound up in bone and muscle). As you use up your reserves, your serum sodium (ie sodium in your blood drops).

There's a great overview here:

http://advancedinstruments.silverscapelive.com/documents/file/SportsHydration07B.pdf

How can there be any debate that you sweat out sodium when you are exercising, you only have a finite amount in your body, and that if you want to continue to ride during a long (hot) day that you need to try to replace it? Hammer Endurolytes work well and they have a balanced amount of electrolytes, not just Sodium. I have used them for some time with positive results.

How can there be any debate that you sweat out sodium when you are exercising, you only have a finite amount in your body, and that if you want to continue to ride during a long (hot) day that you need to try to replace it? Hammer Endurolytes work well and they have a balanced amount of electrolytes, not just Sodium. I have used them for some time with positive results.

I totally agree! The problem is neither that difficult to understand, nor that difficult to solve. Hammer must have done their research properly, because I've had very positive results when using their products.

And while the above post is correct in that everyone has slightly different needs/requirements along these lines, sodium requirements (at some level) are basically the same for all humans. Yes, your sodium (and other mineral) needs/requirements may vary . . . but big picture, it is a need/requirement for everyone (well, everyone in the endurance sport context).

I gave Lauretta a Hammer E-Cap to try last Sunday . . . have to ask if it worked for her!

Rick / OCRR

Consuming sodium during exercise has not been shown to have any positive effect on the body. It is nothing more than clever advertising by companies like Gatorade and Hammer.

http://www.sportsscientists.com/2007/11/sports-drinks-sweat-and-electrolytes_27.html
What I get from that link is that Gatorade doesn't do enough to prevent sodium loss. Which doesn't surprise me as the reference I've seen says that a liter of sweat typically contains 900 mg of sodium. Trying to replace that water loss with a liter of Gatorade is going to get you a lot less sodium. A study indicating that one specific product doesn't do enough to combat sodium loss does not equal sodium replacement being useless. I see it as stressing low sodium as a real problem that isn't solved simply by drinking Gatorade.

Gabe Mirkin is an interesting and often controversial doctor. He used to have a syndicated radio show and writes a good bit on exercise. He claims water and salted peanuts are all most people needs.

Another benefit of sodium is it helps to retain fluids as well to keep you from getting dehyrated.

What I get from that link is that Gatorade doesn't do enough to prevent sodium loss. Which doesn't surprise me as the reference I've seen says that a liter of sweat typically contains 900 mg of sodium. Trying to replace that water loss with a liter of Gatorade is going to get you a lot less sodium. A study indicating that one specific product doesn't do enough to combat sodium loss does not equal sodium replacement being useless. I see it as stressing low sodium as a real problem that isn't solved simply by drinking Gatorade.

The authors of the blog or researchers they worked with completed a study that gave people running a marathon either: water, gatorade, or half mix of water and gatorade. They found no difference in performance between the three groups. If I remember right, those who drank gatorade had rather high levels of sodium.

Apparently you took offense to me having a difference of opinion. You are entitled to yours, as I am to my own. You can continue to waste your money. And you are right, I have never ridden 250 miles straight, I wonder how many people do on the average weekend?Yes, I did take offence, but not at you personally. I have a personal stake in giving advice on these forums that people can rely on. If I said something that could harm anyone, I would never forgive myself. I have to extend this to countering what I perceive to be bad or dangerous advice, which if followed, could lead to a bad ride at the low end, and serious health effects at the high end. You can believe me about the serious health effects, because I have experienced them and know their causes, symptoms, and cures. So no, I'm not wasting my money. I and other experienced posters on this forum are simply trying to improve and empower the rides of others. I'm sorry if your feelings were hurt. I could have put that better. BTW, a 120 capsule bottle of Endurolytes is $20. I go through about 1/yr.

I encourage you to try riding multiple mountain passes in 90°-100° heat before advising on fueling. Or even if you never want to advise anyone, just on general principles. It's a quite enlightening and strengthening experience, even enjoyable in retrospect. 800 riders in the state of Washington will be doing that tomorrow, on Thursday, as they participate in RAMROD: 160 miles and 10,000' of climbing during a record heat wave. May their med tent be sparsely populated, and may the organizers have purchased sufficient saline. And let us all say Amen.

Yes, I did take offence, but not at you personally. I have a personal stake in giving advice on these forums that people can rely on. If I said something that could harm anyone, I would never forgive myself. I have to extend this to countering what I perceive to be bad or dangerous advice, which if followed, could lead to a bad ride at the low end, and serious health effects at the high end. You can believe me about the serious health effects, because I have experienced them and know their causes, symptoms, and cures. So no, I'm not wasting my money. I and other experienced posters on this forum are simply trying to improve and empower the rides of others. I'm sorry if your feelings were hurt. I could have put that better. BTW, a 120 capsule bottle of Endurolytes is $20. I go through about 1/yr.



I guess we can agree to disagree. I have in fact ridden in the rocky moutains of Colorado, including hiking up 14ers.

I think we can both agree that someone does not need to take sodium when only riding, say 3 hours. Most of my rides only last that long. How many riders took sodium tablets/supplements with sodium during the stages of the Tour de France?

apparently i can't differentiate between the subjective and the objective, and think we're just arguing over differing opinions.

ftfy

I guess we can agree to disagree. I have in fact ridden in the rocky moutains of Colorado, including hiking up 14ers.

I think we can both agree that someone does not need to take sodium when only riding, say 3 hours. Most of my rides only last that long. How many riders took sodium tablets/supplements with sodium during the stages of the Tour de France?Yes, agreed. TdF teams seem to make their riders' fueling a closely guarded secret, and for good reason. Reports indicate that about every other bottle given to a rider will be loaded with electrolytes, but it's hard to discover what and how much. I found this article:
http://www.golfsa.com/static/tdf/columnists_article.php?id=3502&c=insider
which gives a brand name and says that the riders pour the plain bottles on their heads and drink the loaded bottles. I wonder how they know which is which? But that accounts for reports of riders going through 4 bottles/hr., which would be 80 oz. using Tour bottles, an impossible amount to drink. But it does seem that all TdF riders consume electrolytes.

And this is very interesting:
http://www.jacn.org/cgi/content/full/21/6/553
especially for the fluid/sodium ratios of finishers. However, many LD riders will not be able to manage the quantities of fluid and CHO consumed by these LD runners. They were on course for about the same time as a fast randonneur on a 600k, who in my experience are riding plenty, plenty hard! I think cyclists have a huge advantage in energy output over runners because we aren't pounding our bodies.

Well, there are obviously a polarized opinion on this and as near as I can tell, both sides are right, to a point.

If you are going to go out and do a 2 hour ride, it is unlikely that you will need to replenish electrolytes during the ride.

On the other hand, I have personally seen one death and no telling how many heat injuries from not replacing them, while consuming lots of water. The electrolytes are flushed out, in urine and sweat during the course of a day, and if they are not replaced at some point, then death can quite easily be the result. Can they be replaced with a normal diet, maybe, maybe not. It depends solely on the activity level and environment.

I can tell you that the Army MRE's are so loaded with sodium that they would give a cardiologist a nervous breakdown. That is for a reason. You have absolutely no idea how much you loose, till you see uniforms that are absolutely crusted with salt. I can absolutely guarantee that a "normal diet" will not replace those. The same can be said of any long term endurance event, whether it is recreational, work, or any number of other causes.

While in much of my training, supplements were not allowed, but a salt package mixed into your water is pretty much the same thing.

I'll err on the side of caution, and continue to supplement electrolytes when I know I will be out in the heat for extended times.

I don't care. On long hot rides I notice a difference when I take e caps. That is good enough for me.
Carry on.

cytomax for me. it works to stop the thigh burn for me, and keep me riding longer. that's all i need to know.

I take 3 Endurolytes before hot rides. Have not had any problems.

Last week I started drinking an 8 oz glass of gatorade (from powder) on returning home from a day's commuting (about 20 miles total), and after a 2 hour ride on days I don't commute. In the Summer heat I seem to be losing more body salts than I expected.

Drinking the gatorade helps me recover more quickly than if I drink just water. I've noticed I feel better since I started that routine a week ago than I have in a while, too, and it's possible even with a healthy diet I was missing something or draining away electrolytes during my rides. I drink enough water daily, so that's not the issue afaik.

I haven't ridden more than 2 1/2 hours yet, and don't plan to do so at this time, so for longer distances and times other research and experience will be a better guide.

if you want to continue to ride during a long (hot) day that you need to try to replace it?True, but sodium can be replaced by food (and not just liquid). Caveat: your stomach has to be able to handle the solid or liquid. Some people have trouble with solids, others have issues with certain flavors of liquid (Gatorade too strong, etc.). It's personal preference how you ingest the nutrients.

I'm one of those people who sweat heavily and have a salt crusted shirt at the end of the day. If I don't eat salty foods or drink water with Nuun tabs then I _really_ feel bad at the end of the day.

Last week I started drinking an 8 oz glass of gatorade (from powder) on returning home from a day's commuting (about 20 miles total), and after a 2 hour ride on days I don't commute. In the Summer heat I seem to be losing more body salts than I expected.

Drinking the gatorade helps me recover more quickly than if I drink just water. I've noticed I feel better since I started that routine a week ago than I have in a while, too, and it's possible even with a healthy diet I was missing something or draining away electrolytes during my rides. I drink enough water daily, so that's not the issue afaik.

I haven't ridden more than 2 1/2 hours yet, and don't plan to do so at this time, so for longer distances and times other research and experience will be a better guide.

The carbs in the Gatorade are replacing the glycogen stores in your muscles, helping you recover faster.

Proper nutrition immediately after exercise will drastically effect your recovery peroid.

The carbs in the Gatorade are replacing the glycogen stores in your muscles, helping you recover faster.

Proper nutrition immediately after exercise will drastically effect your recovery peroid.

Gatorade as a recovery drink? :roflmao2: Almost all of the carbs in Gatorade come directly from sugar! :rolleyes:

A real recovery drink that will benefit you the most should come from something like waixe-maize starch. Try Glyco-Maize from Optimum Nutrition. Or just go into the kitchen and down a couple tablespoons of suger! :roflmao2:

Gatorade as a recovery drink? :roflmao2: Almost all of the carbs in Gatorade come directly from sugar! :rolleyes:

A real recovery drink that will benefit you the most should come from something like waixe-maize starch. Try Glyco-Maize from Optimum Nutrition. Or just go into the kitchen and down a couple tablespoons of suger! :roflmao2:

Obviously not the best choice for recovery, but drinking Gatorade would help you recover better than drinking straight water or nothing at all.

what is wrong with a gatorade and protein powder mix recovery drink after a workout? the sugars are absorbed quickly ( good for replenshimnent) and then some added protein. 30 min later you eat a small health meal - then same 90 min later.

also in TX where it has been 100-105 I see more than a placebo difference with a gatorade type drink on 2-3 hr rides. It prevents cramping as I go into the 3rd hour. Even drinking bottles on a ride you still loose 5 lbs. That study was actually 1 hr of work out due to the rest.

I've been reading up on electrolyte supplements and have found this discussion particularly helpful after my adventure of last Tuesday (blood sugar apparently bottomed out & spent some time resting on the asphalt...) ;)

Reading the first two pages, someone (I don't recall which poster) indicated they have the Hammer manual. Do I understand properly that a hard copy of their nutrition manual is included if I order one of the start up kits?

Next, I am a classic life-long reader and bibliophile with shelves and piles of books all over the place. Not to sidetrack the discussion to far away from which electrolytes and how much, but can any of you suggest a good basic book on sports nutrition? I browsed the shelves at a local big box book retailer yesterday (used to work there) and there were so many that after my lunch hour was over I got back to the office empty handed. To avoid hijacking the thread beyond my question please feel free to PM me any book suggestions.

Thanks to all of you for the great information in this discussion.

Rick

The real key on sports nutrition is to avoid getting the glycogen stores depleted which can easily happen on back to back days. This requires eating and hydration prior to and after the workouts This and taking in enough calories on the bike.

this book is reviewed well - http://www.amazon.com/Sports-Nutrition-Endurance-Athletes-Monique/dp/1931382964/ref=pd_cp_b_1

some like the Paleo diet.

Eating healthy all the time with lots of variety of natural food vs processed is the key.

Reading the first two pages, someone (I don't recall which poster) indicated they have the Hammer manual. Do I understand properly that a hard copy of their nutrition manual is included if I order one of the start up kits?


Rick

Yes - the Hammer manual comes with their starter kit. I read it. Followed their instructions on my first metric century and everything went great.

Hello all, new poster here.

Electrolytes are something I have been working on for a couple of years now. After as short as 2.5 hrs ride duration on a hot difficult race or training ride I sometimes get really painful leg cramps. For me, I am coming to think the temperature is really key to how much electrolyte replacement I require and what my fluid intake must be. And it's seemingly a pretty fine balance. On cool days I do just fine with some Heed or Cytomax and maybe a few Endurolyte caps per hour after a couple of hours. On hot days (95f>) that's when I must really be careful.

I was drinking "too much" on long hard rides. I'd find myself headachey and peeing often, but not very often cramping. After consulting with some 'experts' prior to racing a 12 hr Ultra TT, to see how my fueling plan might look to them, it was recommended that my fluid intake should be reduced to around 16oz per hour ( half of what I was drinking previously). It was explained that I was *probably* diluting my electrolyte balance by ingesting so much fluid, which seems to make sense. I experimented with this fluid intake level during my final weeks leading up to the race and it seemed to work. At about 8hrs into that race, taking 4 endurolytes per hour and ingesting 20oz of fluids, I had severe leg cramping...(100f temps, about 10-15degs hotter than my training had been) Prior to that on cooler training rides using the same fueling strategy...No cramping no headaches..

Recently (I am training to repeat that same Ultra TT or the Everest Challenge soon) I found the same deal...On a cooler long climbing centuries, ridden for training...no problems using about 1-1.5 large water bottles of heed and water with about 300mg of Na/cl per hour..and Perpeteum for fuel..But on two other repeats of that type effort during hot weather...Painful and widespread cramping..Not during the ride, but just following...Ever had both legs cramp from your foot to your hip and then got a cramp in your arm, too? Awful!

So I am still working to better understand my needs. I am getting a better handle on it..seems to be a pretty critical balance and temperature dependent. The humidity where I ride is pretty consistent so I factor that out. My efforts (as gauged by repeating known rides in like time periods) seem pretty consistent. My diet is good and my conditioning is consistent...Temperature seems like the one factor that is changing... My plan is to up my intake of both electrolytes and fluid if the temps are above 90f and I'll hope...

Pretty interesting stuff...but man! Getting cramps in both legs at one time sucks!

Don Hanson

Don,
Maybe you haven't read Hammer's papers on this subject:
Endurance Athlete's Guide to Success (http://www.hammernutrition.com/downloads/fuelinghandbook.pdf?utm_source=fuelingbook&utm_medium=link&utm_campaign=fuelingbook) on the home page http://www.e-caps.com/, and follow the links in that pdf that are embedded in the electrolyte section, especially this one:
http://www.hammernutrition.com/za/HNT?PAGE=ARTICLE&ARTICLE.ID=1791&OMI=10090,10071&AMI=10090&RETURN_URL=%2Fza%2FHNT%3FPAGE%3DENDURANCE_LIBRARY%26OMI%3D10090%2C10071%26AMI%3D10090&RETURN_TEXT=Endurance%20Library
and read the material listed under Free Knowledge on the left nav bar.

Lots of thought-provoking material there. The rate that works for me is 1 Endurolyte/24 oz. bottle and a maximum of 1 bottle/hr. I don't use HEED. I never cramp from heat problems if I follow that standard. But sometimes I get carried away and forget.

My guess would be that you're ingesting too much electrolyte. If you're doing Endurolytes, I'd probably drop the HEED.

I drink ad libitum - to thirst. If I'm not as thirsty as I think I should be, or not peeing every 2 hours, I take an Endurolyte. Otherwise I don't. Taking the Endurolyte makes me thirsty, and I drink more. If I'm not thirsty, I don't drink. That's my system, and it seems to work, even on 400k with temps over 100.

Don,
Maybe you haven't read Hammer's papers on this subject:
Endurance Athlete's Guide to Success (http://www.hammernutrition.com/downloads/fuelinghandbook.pdf?utm_source=fuelingbook&utm_medium=link&utm_campaign=fuelingbook) on the home page http://www.e-caps.com/, and follow the links in that pdf that are embedded in the electrolyte section, especially this one:
http://www.hammernutrition.com/za/HNT?PAGE=ARTICLE&ARTICLE.ID=1791&OMI=10090,10071&AMI=10090&RETURN_URL=%2Fza%2FHNT%3FPAGE%3DENDURANCE_LIBRARY%26OMI%3D10090%2C10071%26AMI%3D10090&RETURN_TEXT=Endurance%20Library
and read the material listed under Free Knowledge on the left nav bar.

Lots of thought-provoking material there. The rate that works for me is 1 Endurolyte/24 oz. bottle and a maximum of 1 bottle/hr. I don't use HEED. I never cramp from heat problems if I follow that standard. But sometimes I get carried away and forget.

My guess would be that you're ingesting too much electrolyte. If you're doing Endurolytes, I'd probably drop the HEED.

I drink ad libitum - to thirst. If I'm not as thirsty as I think I should be, or not peeing every 2 hours, I take an Endurolyte. Otherwise I don't. Taking the Endurolyte makes me thirsty, and I drink more. If I'm not thirsty, I don't drink. That's my system, and it seems to work, even on 400k with temps over 100.

Thanks for the references. I'd read the Hammer stuff before but not the other articles. I am just now preparing my "plan" for the 12hr Ultra TT event. I think I've been on the riight track and what I am planning for next Saturday is an Evolution of what I've done in training...not a revolution..I learned to NOT revise my training practices for a race without really testing the 'New' plan...so just some refining for this.

It seems, according to the reading I've been doing, that balancing hydration and electrolyte balance is critical. And variable. This leads me to attempt to adjust my hourly intake, both of fluid and electrolytes, more to conditions and length of effort. It indicates that I pay more attention to the symptoms I've learned from some of the articles. I think I've been 'on the right track' but I just have not been pro-active enough. For instance, during my last 12 hr Ultra the morning started at 42degrees and it was 103f by about 2pm, yet I tried to stick with 20oz of H2o and 4 endurolyte caps per hour, the whole race...Then when I got a bit head-ache-y in the mid-morning, I drank more. That was wrong, probably should have been drinking Less. And later on when I started cramping, I was still on 4-E-caps per hour...but I probably needed more like 8-10per hr (at 170lbs--85% VO2 max--and 103f degrees).

So a little closer attention to temps and finer-tuning of my intake according to the state of conditions and progress of the race and better monitoring of my body's state of being...Hard to do all that when you are concentrating on the next climb, keeping track of your competators, etc etc. But it is a fun kinda chess match to make all the right moves in a competition or even a self-challenge like a benefit century ride.