Electric Bikes - Is a Brompton Nano good for me?

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I intend to buy a foldable bike to commute for 15 km each way (30 total), with a sea transit by a small boat for 15 minutes. It's a hilly area, while there are alternative flat routes, I will have some short but steep ramps once or twice, and a 6% hill to climb for an elevation increase of 96 meters over 1600 meters).
I I am 1m70 (5"7) and rather heavy for my height at 91 kgs (200 pounds) however I look forward to loose 20-25 pounds in a couple of months.
I want a folder and possibly an electric throttle or assist to use sometimes only, just for some hills when I am tired, to prevent excessive sweating on hot days, and just for fun.
I want to keep the bike as light and as small as possible, that is when folded.
I want the bike to look just like a bike as much as possible. Electric components not to stand out much.
I considered Brompton, Bike Friday and others. I liked Bike Friday Tikit very much because of speed of fold/unfold, reported ride quality, unfortunately it can't get an electric motor as far as I see.
Brompton Nano seems very cute and of high quality even though its parts are mostly proprietary. Light and small when folded, front motorized wheel can be switched with the standard one and bike reverts back to a normal bike, battery hidden. Front traction said to be better. Since I will fold it once in each trip (and I can do away with foolding in summertime as this is permitted in the boat if I travel on deck, not in the indoor passenger compartment), additional height of battery and motor is not a nuisance for me. I think geting the 3 speed hub version and not 6-speed for simplicity and I do not like double lever gear controls at all.
On the other hand Nano is not like Bionx which is regenerative and which is an assistance system since it is mounted on the rear wheel. However I can not find a bike small enough when folded together with Bionx. Maybe a Birdy but they are expensive and I am not sure they are small when folded.
I can also get a Dahon MuP8 but again it can be even worse than Birdy for folded size and its not very attractive to me. Maybe I should see one in person.
I checked Canadian GoBike which seems a good option (maybe without a motor) however it seems that the company does not produce it.
Is Brompton's motor good? Does it make a difference if I pedal along or the speed is the same when moptor is on whatever I do? And I do not know Nano's continious power to compare to Bionx's 350 watts. Nano is 380 watts but it is the peak power.
So, for my 30 km daily commuting needs in a hilly area, what would you recommend to me?
Thanks for bearing with me.
I've not heard good things about the Nano motor :(. Quite the opposite. Relates to the way the gears are built inside. However it is one of the few motors which will fit on the Brompton. So I'm not sure what the answer is. Personally, I took a Raleigh 20 folder and gave it a a SunEZ fork replacement, which is steel, and has standard dropout spacing, 100mm, and fit either a Crystalyte non-geared brushless, or a geared Bafang or EZ motor. Similar problem with Dahons, getting a motor to fit the narrow spacing, excepting rear Dahon hub-motor solutions. I do like my Raleigh a lot, but it isn't as portable as a Brompton. Of course the Brompton would sacrifice quite a bit of its portability anyway with all the electrics on it.
Thank you for this info. You are right, Brompton M3 will be 36.3 pounds when electric components weighting 10.8 pounds are added. For me, a Brompton is very cute and elegant. Anyway I am also inclined now for a Birdy; its lightest monocoque model weights only 23.4 pounds however if I add a Bionx 350 weigting 17.6 pounds (with Li battery), total weight for Birdy+Bionx is 41 pounds
I will either keep it a non electric and buy a Birdy, Brompton or Tikit.
I am also working on a Brompton with front hub motor project. I can carry the whole bike (M3L) including the hub motor and battery with one arm. It weights in a little more than 40 lbs. I love it and I am trying to make it as my everyday transportation. :thumb:
I am also working on a Brompton with front hub motor project. I can carry the whole bike (M3L) including the hub motor and battery with one arm. It weights in a little more than 40 lbs. I love it and I am trying to make it as my everyday transportation. :thumb:
Somewhere I read that the new Nano motor hub is narrower and does not require the original front fork to be replaced with the wider ones supplied in the Nano Kit. Do you have any info about this? I could not find anywhere more info on that.
My hub motor is a custom made one which does not requires to replace and/or widen the fork. I personally do not like internal geared electric hub motor due to the longevity does not last as long as the pure hub motor. The hub motor I have is a modified one with the casing shaved & repainted. Therefore, I can have a large motor to fit a narrow fork which is considered one of a kind. I actually have 2 Bromptons, one M3L and one M5R. My next project is to electrified my M5R without using a hub motor. It would be trickier but it can be done with a welder, Dremo tool, drill, and some imagination. It would most likely be a friction drive unit however. :)
A custom made motor requires time, patience, ability and tools ! Unfortunately I do not have them all together :)
Currently I am torn between two solutions:
- A Bromton with a Nano motor fitted in the front wheel. It is still manageable and the best solution when using a bus, train etc.
- A Birdy with a Bionx 350 watt motor fitted in the rear wheel. It is not so welcome in busses but trains must be OK. Heavier and bulkier than Brommie when folded. However it should be more fun since ride quality is in a different league as reported by most: more agile when necessary and more comfortable.
Birdy being much more expensive, price to pay for any of the both keeps me unwilling to go and buy immediately though. They cost a lot.
I also have an A-Bike with a DC motor attached to the rear wheel and a 24V Li-Polymer battery attached to the saddle rails. The total weight is of the electricfied A-Bike is about the same weight as the regular Brompton. It also folds into a smaller package and costs less than a regular Brompton too! :)
apshamilton
08-06-09, 12:21 PM
I have been using a Brompton Nano with my own battery solution almost every day for 18 months now and can report that the motor is completely reliable and is the perfect solution for Biont's needs.
I was so happy with my Brompton Nano that I decided to improve on it - just like Brompton itself does incremental improvements on a well tested design.
The result is the Brompton E-Freedom. http://www.freedomebikes.com
It uses the 80mm version of the tonxgin (Nano) motor combined with the latest nano-technology lithium batteries and some other design improvements to create what I believe is the world's lightest 250 watt ebike kit. Its only 3.2kg (7lbs) including battery and I can testify that the battery is good for hilly city commutes up to 15km. The battery system is modular so extra batteries can be added for extra range if needed.
It also fits on the Brompton without the need for new forks.
I have been using a Brompton Nano with my own battery solution almost every day for 18 months now and can report that the motor is completely reliable and is the perfect solution for Biont's needs.
I was so happy with my Brompton Nano that I decided to improve on it - just like Brompton itself does incremental improvements on a well tested design.
The result is the Brompton E-Freedom. http://www.freedomebikes.com
It uses the 80mm version of the tonxgin (Nano) motor combined with the latest nano-technology lithium batteries and some other design improvements to create what I believe is the world's lightest 250 watt ebike kit. Its only 3.2kg (7lbs) including battery and I can testify that the battery is good for hilly city commutes up to 15km. The battery system is modular so extra batteries can be added for extra range if needed.
It also fits on the Brompton without the need for new forks.
Yeah this is exactly what I was looking for !!!!
I checked your website and you did a good job, it makes Brompton maybe the lightest electric bike.
I have a few questions:
What is the power and torque sacrifice when one opts for the 80 mm ınstead of 100 mm versıon of the hub motor?
Which bag should be used on M and S bar Bromptons? Are Cloth Pannier, Touring Pannier and S-bag all OK?
What are the battery specs?
Birdy+Bionx is way too pricey and Brompton E-Freedom must well worth it.
Tomorrow, I will send some other questions to the e-mail on the website: related to pricing & shipping.
apshamilton
08-07-09, 07:12 AM
Hi Biont - thanks for your questions
We've done some bike-on-bike testing of the 100mm vs 80mm Tonxgin motors. I have two Brompton E-Freedom bikes one with each type (my prototypes as well as everyday transport).
Tonxgin says the 80mm motor is rated at the same continuous power (250W) and has the same characteristics but has 10% less peak power.
In testing this seems about right. The 100mm motor has slightly more torque from start but once you're moving a bit the torque and power is the same. Hub motors only deliver peak power at start off as once you build up speed the back-EMF creates resistance that limits current flow and thus power.
In practice the difference is not noticable and the 80mm is well worth the 400gm weigh saving and narrower fold on a Brompton.
Any bag is OK. The battery pack fits snugly into the rear pockets on the S-Bag or cloth panier.
The battery pack is 91 watt hour which is fine for hilly city commutes up to around 15km and much further on the open road.
If you need to go further the system is modular so you can easily add another pack or two if you need.
This way you don't have to carry or pay for more battery than you need.