Professional Cycling For the Fans - It's not Lance hate...simply the truth..

You know, I took a break from watching cycling after Lance stopped competing. After I heard Lance was coming back I was going to watch again and root for him and I actually thought he was going to win.

I didn't like Contador because I saw him as standing in the way of Lance especially after the Pyrenees when he didn't follow their team's plan. But, after Verbier, it was clear Contador was in a league of his own. I then started to observe Lance's reactions and interviews and it was pretty clear what was going on, he's a sore loser. After I took off the Lance glasses I saw what was really going on. I then came here and started reading threads to see if people shared my view and was pleasantly surprised.:thumb:

So Lance is awesome because he brought back people like me to watching cycling. All in all, I hope Contador crushes team Radio Shack next year.

This rivalry is great for Cycling!! Look how much press it's generating.

PS, erader, I agree with everything you say. Despite people calling you a Lance hater, etc. You really are just speaking truth. The truth hurts. Thanks.

So Lance is awesome because he brought back people like me to watching cycling. All in all, I hope Contador crushes team Radio Shack last year.

So now AC is so awesome he can manipulate the space-time continuum?

It took you that long to see that Lance is a sore loser?! Well, at least there is hope yet. Armstrong fanatics are never reasonable and will ignore and make excuses all day for their man. I find it incredibly hysterical the same people will jump at any chance they get to quickly criticize and condemn anyone speaking out about Armstrong. It's a bit hypocritical, but I suppose that is the Armstrong way.

Yep. I like good losers the best. Those good losers tend to be the folks that get to practice that trait the most.

Sadly, AC just wants to ride his bike. Nothing wrong with that, but pro bike racing is much more than just riding your bicycle to wins. He must learn to play the game. That is where Lance is head and shoulders a better bike racer than Alberto. He can ride his bike, attract sponsors, generate interest, etc.

He can play the game better than anyone ever has, and most likely, ever will.

He can play the game better than anyone ever has, and most likely, ever will.

Quite true,

Lance does the Media Star gig quite well and far better than any bicycle racer that has gone before. The others get used by the media, Lance uses the media for his own purpose.

I like Alberto and wish him the best. I hope he finds a good team for 2010, but no team seems to be a good fit for him at the moment.

Rick / OCRR

...Sadly, AC just wants to ride his bike. Nothing wrong with that, but pro bike racing is much more than just riding your bicycle to wins. He must learn to play the game. That is where Lance is head and shoulders a better bike racer than Alberto. He can ride his bike, attract sponsors, generate interest, etc...

Lance has more clout, but that makes him a bigger player in cycling politics - not a better bike racer.

You know, I took a break from watching cycling after Lance stopped competing. After I heard Lance was coming back I was going to watch again and root for him and I actually thought he was going to win.

I didn't like Contador because I saw him as standing in the way of Lance especially after the Pyrenees when he didn't follow their team's plan. But, after Verbier, it was clear Contador was in a league of his own. I then started to observe Lance's reactions and interviews and it was pretty clear what was going on, he's a sore loser. After I took off the Lance glasses I saw what was really going on. I then came here and started reading threads to see if people shared my view and was pleasantly surprised.:thumb:

So Lance is awesome because he brought back people like me to watching cycling. All in all, I hope Contador crushes team Radio Shack next year.

This rivalry is great for Cycling!! Look how much press it's generating.

PS, erader, I agree with everything you say. Despite people calling you a Lance hater, etc. You really are just speaking truth. The truth hurts. Thanks.

thank you! i've rooted for lance since his early days with motorola and my path to disillusionment is very similar to yours.

i believe that lance's image is slipping in even the eyes of the guys who defend him on this forum. i know it was that way for me....i defended lance even tho i wished he would retire and disappear from the cycling scene.

lance is not a nice guy, he's duplicitous and self-serving and seeks to destroy anyone who defies him. those traits helped him to overcome cancer and become the greatest champion in TDF history but do not serve him well now.

one day lance's behavior is gonna backfire and the press will turn on him, and then he'll be in a fight he cannot win. i believe we are seeing the beginning of that process now.

ed rader

Lance has more clout, but that makes him a bigger player in cycling politics - not a better bike racer.

That is my point. If you want to just ride your bike, not glad-hand sponsors, not be all correct for your team, etc., then AC is superior. If you want to build a team, attract cash, and race a bike at 37, Lance will kick his ass every time.

AC and Lance ride differently, have different ideas about how to race. That's all well and good. Both are very competitive and both want to win. And that's all well and good as well. They were both on the same team... that, well, not so good as we've seen time and again in other teams that didn't have a single GC man and no one to really threaten that position. You put two former TdF winners on the same team, both having tasted victory in Paris, and what do you think is going to happen. These guys are racers, not fairy godmothers. Who had more support from Astana during the race, I'd probably have to side with AC, though if given the choice some of those riders may have wanted to support Lance more. But even Lance played his part of support rider when it was time to do so. Doesn't mean he liked it, doesn't mean we should expect him to like it. The desire for victory burns in Lance as strongly now as it did in 99 when he won his first - maybe even more so. So maybe it wasn't the best thing for AC that Lance showed up on the Astana team, maybe it wasn't the best thing for Lance to be on AC's team. But it's now in the history books and we can all argue about it till next year.

thank you! i've rooted for lance since his early days with motorola and my path to disillusionment is very similar to yours.

i believe that lance's image is slipping in even the eyes of the guys who defend him on this forum. i know it was that way for me....i defended lance even tho i wished he would retire and disappear from the cycling scene.

lance is not a nice guy, he's duplicitous and self-serving and seeks to destroy anyone who defies him. those traits helped him to overcome cancer and become the greatest champion in TDF history but do not serve him well now.

one day lance's behavior is gonna backfire and the press will turn on him, and then he'll be in a fight he cannot win. i believe we are seeing the beginning of that process now.

ed rader

I'm another one that loved Lance and followed this path of enlightenment too. However, I do not have the faith in others changing that you do. Heck, look at all the BD hand wringing that goes on around here.

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle:
-LA is the greatest TDF rider ever, hands down, and even long past his prime is one of the best.
-AC is the greatest TDF rider of his generation, and rightfully expects the support of his team.
-LA has a hard time coping with not being the best, and I think it eats him up personally. But at least in public he can be a team player. Anyone remember "AC proved he was the strongest rider"?
-AC needs to stop whining. When you just won the TDF its hard to say you got no support from your team when they won the team competition.
-While I think LA's behavior on the road was beyond reproach, I think he should have addressed the issue of team leader with the media better. It shouldn't have taken AC kicking his butt in the moutains for him to know he wasn't the best anymore. He should have known before the race and gone in saying AC is our team leader. If I can get a podium spot that's great but ultimately he is the priority.
-This was definitely not about cancer fundraising

PS, erader, I agree with everything you say. Despite people calling you a Lance hater, etc. You really are just speaking truth. The truth hurts. Thanks.


thank you!

ed rader

HEY!! How about me!?
I did time for Lance hating! Iv got BF street cred!! :innocent: ;)

The truth? That's a mighty big word . . . use it very wisely.


. . . .And you guys think you are the truth bearers of all things Lance Armstrong?


One word . . . . Delusion.

One phrase . . . It takes one to know one.

I say this in all humility . . .

Personally, I hated LA before his comeback, but his comeback changed my opinion. I actually like him now.

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle:
-LA is the greatest TDF rider ever, hands down, and even long past his prime is one of the best.
-AC is the greatest TDF rider of his generation, and rightfully expects the support of his team.
-LA has a hard time coping with not being the best, and I think it eats him up personally. But at least in public he can be a team player. Anyone remember "AC proved he was the strongest rider"?
-AC needs to stop whining. When you just won the TDF its hard to say you got no support from your team when they won the team competition.
-While I think LA's behavior on the road was beyond reproach, I think he should have addressed the issue of team leader with the media better. It shouldn't have taken AC kicking his butt in the moutains for him to know he wasn't the best anymore. He should have known before the race and gone in saying AC is our team leader. If I can get a podium spot that's great but ultimately he is the priority.
-This was definitely not about cancer fundraising

I disagree. 7 wins and one second out of I believe 12 tries. The rest out of the top 20

Merckx - 5 wins, one second one 8th (I think) out of 7 tries. Out of his 5 wins he only has one where he did not pick up at least one other Jersey.

Oh one can argue best TDF rider for Lance, but far from hands down. Merckx with far fewer starts also has more stage wins and more days in yellow than Lance.

I disagree. 7 wins and one second out of I believe 12 tries. The rest out of the top 20

Merckx - 5 wins, one second one 8th (I think) out of 7 tries. Out of his 5 wins he only has one where he did not pick up at least one other Jersey.

Oh one can argue best TDF rider for Lance, but far from hands down. Merckx with far fewer starts also has more stage wins and more days in yellow than Lance.

I agree. In fact I might have to go with Merckx.

Merckx was a much better all around rider, it's not even close, but IMHO 7 beats 5 every time.

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle:
-LA is the greatest TDF rider ever, hands down, and even long past his prime is one of the best.


Nope. Merckx is the greatest TDF rider ever. 5 TDF, 3 Green Jerseys, 2 Mountain Jerseys, 4 Combativity awards, 34 stage wins, 111 days in yellow. Oh yeah, in '69 he won all three jerseys.

Nope. Merckx is the greatest TDF rider ever. 5 TDF, 3 Green Jerseys, 2 Mountain Jerseys, 4 Combativity awards, 34 stage wins, 111 days in yellow. Oh yeah, in '69 he won all three jerseys.

My admiration for him stems from beyond the TdF - he won several of the Classics, other Grand Tours and 3 world Championships.

He truely was an animal!

Yep. I like good losers the best. Those good losers tend to be the folks that get to practice that trait the most.


No kidding. Who was it that said "Show me a good loser and I'll show you a loser"....

thank you! i've rooted for lance since his early days with motorola and my path to disillusionment is very similar to yours.

i believe that lance's image is slipping in even the eyes of the guys who defend him on this forum. i know it was that way for me....i defended lance even tho i wished he would retire and disappear from the cycling scene.

lance is not a nice guy, he's duplicitous and self-serving and seeks to destroy anyone who defies him. those traits helped him to overcome cancer and become the greatest champion in TDF history but do not serve him well now.

one day lance's behavior is gonna backfire and the press will turn on him, and then he'll be in a fight he cannot win. i believe we are seeing the beginning of that process now.

ed rader


I totally agree. The problem with Armstrong being such a punk is that his fans and the media continually ignore his vindictive nature and make excuses for him. How many times do we have to hear from Armstrong supporters saying, "IF so-and-so were true that Armstrong..." Yet, these same people have continually jumped at any fabrication criticizing any enemy of Armstrong.

I have no doubt in my mind that Armstrong used performance-enhancing drugs for all 7 of his wins, including the podium finish this year. They just won't catch the guy because when he knows he is on the juice, he just won't allow his blood or urine to be taken without him altering it first. He's not a sportsman. He shouldn't have even been allowed to race the Tour this year for violating an earlier UCI test. He's a punk. And he's not only a jerk in his personal life, but in his professional life as well. The number of vidictive incidents he has had with other riders are numerous. Swart, Vaughters, Andreu, Emma O'Reilly, Simeoni, Landis, and now Contador. There are many more, but this thing would go on forever if I listed them all.

No kidding. Who was it that said "Show me a good loser and I'll show you a loser"....

Lombardy, maybe?

To the OP,

I think that most the complaints you hear around here about those that dislike Lance are aimed a select few who don't have anything else to say. When that's all they can talk about in just about every one of their posts in any thread, regardless of initial topic, it gets tiresome. I would contend that a reasonably large percentage of the folks cheering for Lance, at least those that are cyclists first and Lance supporters second, realize the double edged sword that is his personality. He's domineering and it's obvious. But then again, other great TDF champions have been just as tough. Nicknames like Canibal and Badger are not necessarily terms of endearment. Eddy chewed the peleton up and left little drama in the tour. And I'm sure if we dug just a little deeper than Wikipedia, we would see that they too sometimes had less than kind things to say about their competition or the competition about them.

One of the things that continues to amaze me, is that soo many that decry Lance, his personality and the allegations of his drug use, then declare a four times proven positive cheat to be the greatest TDF champion ever. I'm not belittling Eddy, but, come on folks the guy got tossed from the Giro for use of banned substances in the same year that he won his first Tour.

Lombardy, maybe?

To the OP,

I think that most the complaints you hear around here about those that dislike Lance are aimed a select few who don't have anything else to say. When that's all they can talk about in just about every one of their posts in any thread, regardless of initial topic, it gets tiresome.
I think what gets tiresome for these people you are talking about is that they offer no, nor do they have any rebuttal except for the cancer card, the 7 Tour wins, and personal criticism.

I have yet to see any debate driven rebuttal on any anti-Lance comments.

As the thread topic says, its not Lance hating....simply truth.

Besides, does one suggest we make a camp fire and sing kumbaya?

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle:
-This was definitely not about cancer fundraising

Defintely not. It is the other way around. Cancer awareness and the Livestrong non-profit organization were convinently used to gain publicity for himself. At least that's how it was perceived. sad.

Big Fred. Your quote about good losers has been attributed to the late great Vince Lombardi.

While i agree that lance is no saint. Not even close, he did play a good teammate on the road, and that is where it matters. There is no doubt that he could have done alot more work when the shlecks and contador attacked in an attempt for second place. Instead he sat up, and rode other people's wheels, making sure the wiggins and others lost time.

"Nope. Merckx is the greatest TDF rider ever. 5 TDF, 3 Green Jerseys, 2 Mountain Jerseys, 4 Combativity awards, 34 stage wins, 111 days in yellow. Oh yeah, in '69 he won all three jerseys. "

Merckx is the greatest rider of all time. But He raced in different times. It's like comparing time trial avg. speeds today and back then. It's a number but there is more to it. The racing culture is very much more specialized. When was the last time a realistic GC contender contested a sprint that wasnt at the top of a mountain. I would consider the greatest TDF rider to be the one that planned the race to be in yellow in paris. Even if that meant being out of yellow to avoid attacks. 7>5

I would consider the greatest TDF rider to be the one that planned the race to be in yellow in paris.
No. Riding with the radio is not great. Avoiding the yellow is not great. Participating in every break. Sprinting for mountain AND flat points is great. Sweeping all of the jerseys of a contest is great. His 5 tour wins? out of SEVEN attempts. 5 > 7

No. Riding with the radio is not great. Avoiding the yellow is not great. Participating in every break. Sprinting for mountain AND flat points is great. Sweeping all of the jerseys of a contest is great. His 5 tour wins? out of SEVEN attempts. 5 > 7

And doing all that whilst apparently high as a kite is still great? He got kicked out of the Giro in the same year as his first win. If you think he learned his lesson from that and didn't dope for the Tour, he tested positive three more times over the course of his career.

I'm still convinced that 7is in fact >5. I learned that much in kinder garten.

Merckx is the greatest rider of all time. But He raced in different times. It's


I knew someone would say this. People forget that Merckx was not racing against a bunch of cub scouts but rather against some extremely talented riders. Era doesn't matter. The fact is he won 500+ races and I contend that we have not seen a similar performance since simply because we've yet to see another rider of Merckx's caliber.

And doing all that whilst apparently high as a kite...


:crash::crash::crash::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

My admiration for him stems from beyond the TdF - he won several of the Classics, other Grand Tours and 3 world Championships.

He truely was an animal!

No, Hinault wa an animal (Badger) Merckx was a cannibal.

And doing all that whilst apparently high as a kite is still great? He got kicked out of the Giro in the same year as his first win. If you think he learned his lesson from that and didn't dope for the Tour, he tested positive three more times over the course of his career.

I'm still convinced that 7is in fact >5. I learned that much in kinder garten.

Ah yes, the Giro test. A test disputed to this day and one where the penalty was thrown out because of many problems with how the samples were handled.

Sometimes when things are in dispute someone makes a comment that is convincing and trumps pretty much everything else. In the case of Babe Ruth's 'called shot' the catcher in question disputed that it happened saying that if there was any such gesture neither he not the pitcher saw it. If they had there was no way Babe could have put the next pitch out because it would be at his head. In this case Merckx has an equally convincing comment, simply that it was an easy stage, why dope for that one? \

Unlike Armstrong Merckx never claimed he was any different from any other ridres in his era when if came to doping.

And doing all that whilst apparently high as a kite is still great? He got kicked out of the Giro in the same year as his first win. If you think he learned his lesson from that and didn't dope for the Tour, he tested positive three more times over the course of his career.

I'm still convinced that 7is in fact >5. I learned that much in kinder garten.

All that shows in longevity. Most wins is not the same as greatest. It is a part, but not everything.

No, Hinault wa an animal (Badger) Merckx was a cannibal.

............. Hinault makes Armstrong look like a Saint. (Saint Lance), ...Thank god that could never happen...........it's about as likely as a hitler youth memebr becoming Pope...:roflmao2:

Defintely not. It is the other way around. Cancer awareness and the Livestrong non-profit organization were convinently used to gain publicity for himself. At least that's how it was perceived. sad.

Bing! Bing! Bing! Bing! Bob, tell him what he's won ....

Who was it that said "Show me a good loser and I'll show you a loser"....


Your quote about good losers has been attributed to the late great Vince Lombardi.

Hmm. I would have bet the farm that such an authoritative quote about losing would have come from a Frenchman.

Hmm. I would have bet the farm that such an authoritative quote about losing would have come from a Frenchman.

Wow. How original.

No kidding. Who was it that said "Show me a good loser and I'll show you a loser"....

As I recall Michael Phelps finally finished second (lost) a race. Anyone recall hearing any excuses or whining? Anyone want to call him a loser? Of course the swimmer who beat him set a new world record doing it.

Nope. Merckx is the greatest TDF rider ever. 5 TDF, 3 Green Jerseys, 2 Mountain Jerseys, 4 Combativity awards, 34 stage wins, 111 days in yellow. Oh yeah, in '69 he won all three jerseys.

Yu missed a few. He also won the most aggressive rider award (pretty rare for GC winners not named Eddy). His team won the team championship. He won the final stage. His winning margin was over 17 minutes, the best since Fausto Coppi. And he had a huge solo break on stage 17. Over 100 kms If I remember correctly. 6 (top class) riders should be able to pull back 1 right?

I'm still convinced that 7is in fact >5. I learned that much in kinder garten.



I excuse the fact you hadnt learned fractions in kindergarten as 5/7 > 7/12

I excuse the fact you hadnt learned fractions in kindergarten as 5/7 > 7/12

Do ya' really want to go there? I imagine that even after we take Eddy's 500 wins into account, that he started far more races than that and that if we compare his total win ratio to Lance's (who has started realatively few races), Lance will come out with a higher career win ratio. Don't know for sure, but, I'd be willing to bet on it.

By the way, 7 is still great than 5........just sayin'

You know, I took a break from watching cycling after Lance stopped competing. After I heard Lance was coming back I was going to watch again and root for him and I actually thought he was going to win.

I didn't like Contador because I saw him as standing in the way of Lance especially after the Pyrenees when he didn't follow their team's plan. But, after Verbier, it was clear Contador was in a league of his own. I then started to observe Lance's reactions and interviews and it was pretty clear what was going on, he's a sore loser. After I took off the Lance glasses I saw what was really going on. I then came here and started reading threads to see if people shared my view and was pleasantly surprised.:thumb:

So Lance is awesome because he brought back people like me to watching cycling. All in all, I hope Contador crushes team Radio Shack next year.

This rivalry is great for Cycling!! Look how much press it's generating.

PS, erader, I agree with everything you say. Despite people calling you a Lance hater, etc. You really are just speaking truth. The truth hurts. Thanks.

It's guy love. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lL4L4Uv5rf0) :lol:

Do ya' really want to go there? I imagine that even after we take Eddy's 500 wins into account, that he started far more races than that and that if we compare his total win ratio to Lance's (who has started realatively few races), Lance will come out with a higher career win ratio. Don't know for sure, but, I'd be willing to bet on it.

By the way, 7 is still great than 5........just sayin'

You would lose that bet. Eddys win percentage is absurd. Typically win percentage includes each stage of a tour as a seperate race. Eddy was somewhere over 30% of all races. Lance does not match that even for his chosen race.

Ah yes, the Giro test. A test disputed to this day and one where the penalty was thrown out because of many problems with how the samples were handled.

Sometimes when things are in dispute someone makes a comment that is convincing and trumps pretty much everything else. In the case of Babe Ruth's 'called shot' the catcher in question disputed that it happened saying that if there was any such gesture neither he not the pitcher saw it. If they had there was no way Babe could have put the next pitch out because it would be at his head. In this case Merckx has an equally convincing comment, simply that it was an easy stage, why dope for that one? \

Unlike Armstrong Merckx never claimed he was any different from any other ridres in his era when if came to doping.

But there was also a positive test after the Giro Di Lombardia in 1973, and Flech Walllone in in 1975, and again in 1977 for pemoline.

Differen period, different rules, different attitudes,m different drugs, but people including Merckx have been doping in cycling for a long time.

I've been a sports fan all of my life and a cycling fan for 30 years. I watched when Connie Carpenter raced alongside Eric Heiden. I watched when Greg Lemond raced the Tour. I remember trying desperately to get updates and results from the latest Red Zinger stage in the days before the Internet and 24 hour cable sports coverage.

But in all that time, I have never seen a cyclist inspire more polarized extremes of love and loathing than Lance Armstrong. I won't mince words... I'm a Lance fan. And I pretty much keep my opinions to myself about him... mainly because I find that it is pointless to attempt to convince any true believer that the other side has any merit at all. But I just have to have a say. I'm not trying to convince anyone that Lance is a saint. I'm not saying that he is even a nice guy. But what I do want to do is to make people THINK before they open their mouths.


I think what gets tiresome for these people you are talking about is that they offer no, nor do they have any rebuttal except for the cancer card, the 7 Tour wins, and personal criticism.

I have yet to see any debate driven rebuttal on any anti-Lance comments.

As the thread topic says, its not Lance hating....simply truth.

Besides, does one suggest we make a camp fire and sing kumbaya?

Howzit... I've seen you and a few other BF'ers really bash anyone who doesn't think that Lance is the embodiment of Satan. You talk about how he was caught doping by absolutely credible innocent saints who were just trying to do the right thing. When I started reading about these cases, it sure seems to me that nearly without fail, the accusers were either disgruntled or had something to gain by Lance's downfall. Heck, in one of the most cited cases (the SCA case) the plaintiff was attempting to withold a contracted payment of 5 million dollars from Lance. Oh... and you guys never disclose that SCA had no case and ended up forced to not only pay Lance the money, but they had to pay for his legal fees too. You only want to point out that he was accused, so he must be guilty.

You defend other riders for their behavior... but bash Lance for doing the same things. These guys are competitors. They want to win. But you seem to think that Hinault, Mercx, and other European riders were pleasant guys who shared bonding moments on the road... sigh... Wrong. They were brutal in their attempts to crush other riders. And their team mates were not exempt from the onslaught come race time. But Lance gets canned for being a selfish American if he has team mates ride to help him. But it's something that European riders have been doing for a long time. The term "domestique" isn't a Navajo word... I'm pretty sure that it wasn't invented in America.

No... I don't think that Lance is perfect. I just wish that some of you could see your own hypocrisy for what it is.


Defintely not. It is the other way around. Cancer awareness and the Livestrong non-profit organization were convinently used to gain publicity for himself. At least that's how it was perceived. sad.

But this is the post that made me respond. GrinderBob... you show yourself to be a heartless punk who has no idea what it's like to be on the inside of the cancer thrill ride. Sure... attack the racer... attack the person if you don't like him. But saying that he only formed LiveStrong for publicity is a cheap shot.

I've seen the LiveStrong people in action from an up front and personal seat. My wife is fighting cancer right now, and she has shown me what true strength is. And Lance has lived that story too... and I believe that he draws great strength from his knowledge that a bike race (even the TdF) is chump change compared to what he went through. And he tries to do something to help those who race every day in a race that very well may end in death. But your statement is something that would only come from the heart of a pathetic person who has probably never done anything altruistic or meaningful in his life.

My wife needs treatment for her cancer every day for 6 weeks. And the treatments are at a clinic that is too far away for us to travel to every day... so she will have to live near the facility for the duration. Very expensive to find lodging in a big city like that. But you know what? There is an organization that provides free housing for cancer patients that are in her predicament, and they depend solely on donations and endowments to stay afloat. Some of these people have been driven to bankruptcy by months of treatment expenses, but they'll at least have somewhere to stay during the ordeal. When we went this week to tour the facility and make arrangements for my wife to move in, I saw a plaque of sponsors on the wall. Guess who is one of their biggest sponsors? You got it... LiveStrong. They give hundreds of thousands of dollars every year to help people who need help. What have you done Bob? Huh?

Will I wear a yellow Livestrong bracelet? Hell... I'd tattoo my weiner yellow if Lance asked me to.

... And I pretty much keep my opinions to myself about him... mainly because I find that it is pointless to attempt to convince any true believer that the other side has any merit at all...

Nicely said, and with that, closed.