Folding Bikes - I'm troubled that Bike Friday doesn't use replaceable derailleur hangers

Last tour I was on, I ran into some SERIOUS trouble (http://www.bikemandan.com/blog/seasia-2009/whoa) and wound up with a broken hanger that needed to be replaced. I have wanted a New World Tourist as my main touring bike but I can't help but think...what happens if (or rather WHEN) I get another bent hanger and can't so easily just get another one

Seems like a deal breaker to me. Any thoughts?

They sell their bikes anyway without replacable hangers, and the NWT is one of the most popular models.

What did Bike Friday have to say about this?

They sell their bikes anyway without replacable hangers, and the NWT is one of the most popular models.

Come again... ???

What did Bike Friday have to say about this?

They only braze hangers on (was their reponse to me)

I have thought about having these brazed onto my Pocket Rocket and getting rid of the vertical mounts. Go to the bottom of the page on the right, the Surley track mounts.
http://www.gaerlan.com/bikeparts/frame/dropouts/dropout.html

http://www.derailleurhanger.com/emergency.htm

Or: Get BF to either identify the replacement part or send you a spare.

http://www.derailleurhanger.com/emergency.htm

Or: Get BF to either identify the replacement part or send you a spare.


Hanger #199 attaches to any dropout, and will provide enough shifting range to ride back to the trailhead so you can get home to order and install the correct hanger

BF hangers are brazed on, ie they cannot be ordered and replaced. If something happens, a new one needs to be brazed on, not exactly doable in most situations.

I suppose you can go for an 8 speed hub with a front derailleur. I think the Tikit has a removable rear derailluer so it's possible the same for other frames.

I suppose you can go for an 8 speed hub with a front derailleur. I think the Tikit has a removable rear derailluer so it's possible the same for other frames.

Not a good idea. If the hub brakes, then he won't even be able to shorten the chain and ride single speed. OP maybe you should consider a Xoot Swift, which uses a replaceable derailleur hanger? Not sure if you want an aluminum frame tho, but you can also get a steel frame too (waiting time is long for the steel frame). Or ask bikefriday to make you a frame with a replaceable derailleur hanger.

How common are replaceable hangers on steel touring frames?

Replaceable hangers are usually found on aluminum (and maybe carbon?) frames. To a large extent, this is because the failure mode of aluminum makes it inadvisable to bend aluminum back to shape (at least not without heat-treating). Carbon either doesn't deform permanently or else it breaks.

Bike Fridays are made of steel. Steel (and titanium) frames don't usually come with replaceable hangers because steel and titanium (may, depending on the actual damage) allow bending back into shape.

Breakage, however, is breakage. My guess is Bike Friday would consider an impact sufficient to cause the hanger to break to be outside the bounds of "normal wear and tear" and therefore not covered by warranty.

If bent/broken hangers were a significant problem faced by BF owners, don't you think BF would've addressed it by now? The NWT design has been around for many, many years.

I ride a low end folder which is made of steel but I think the manufacturer had the right idea. First of all there is a protective "cage" made of solid steel tubing over the derailleur to prevent damage from most side impacts, and second, the hanger is part of the derailleur itself, and not the frame. The derailleur is fastened to the frame by both the right axle nut, and a small screw going through the hanger, and the dropout. A good, simple solution to that potential problem...albeit it does add a little weight, and complicates the removal of the rear wheel some.

Edward Wong III
Qile Duo 5 Speed 20" Folder


Last tour I was on, I ran into some SERIOUS trouble (http://www.bikemandan.com/blog/seasia-2009/whoa) and wound up with a broken hanger that needed to be replaced. I have wanted a New World Tourist as my main touring bike but I can't help but think...what happens if (or rather WHEN) I get another bent hanger and can't so easily just get another one

Seems like a deal breaker to me. Any thoughts?

Bent deraileur hangers are actually a rare occurance. The replaceable hangers also seem to be predominate on aluminium frames. I suspect this is because aluminum cannot be bent back into position once bent, it would just break. Steel is far more forgiving and can be bent back into shape. If the damage is anything more than a bent hanger, then a replaceable one would not help you anyways.

Bike Fridays have been around the world many times and have toured some pretty rough places on this planet. In fact there was one gentleman on the "Yak" mail list that uses his in war torn africa. I think if the hanger was going to be a problem, it would have been discovered by now on those tours and subsequently addressed by BF.

I have owned two BFs. They are tough bikes and the customer service is second to none. I would not hesitate to jump on one and tour the planet.

Hm perhaps I am overthinking
Thanks for opening up my eyes a little on the matter :thumb:

Replaceable hangers are usually found on aluminum (and maybe carbon?) frames.

45 second Google check: The respected Bruce Gordon, Surly Long Haul Trucker and Kona Sutra touring frames are made of steel and do not have replaceable derailleur hangers - the hangers are integral with the left rear drop-out.

BTW: This construction is typical of quality steel frames for the last 75 years or so.

HTH,
tcs

Hm perhaps I am overthinking
Thanks for opening up my eyes a little on the matter :thumb:

It's easy to do. Most of us on this forum have had some kind of what I will call "one-time-big-problem". It is natural for us to want to prevent that from ever happening again. I have, and some folks I know have done this and end up carrying around some heavy tool we will never use again. I even have knowledge of a guy who once carried a hacksaw around ... (dont ask me what happened to him).

If you want to know what is really needed for a world wide tour on a bike friday, just call and ask. They have some folks on staff there that have done just that. They will be more than happy to assist you.

Also sign up for the "Yak" mailing list. This is bike-friday specific and there are some very knowledgeable folks on that list who do not belong to this forum.

BF hangers are brazed on, ie they cannot be ordered and replaced. If something happens, a new one needs to be brazed on, not exactly doable in most situations.

If Bike Friday can't or won't braze a new hanger, it's going to be difficult to sell the bike as a single speed. You'll probably lose half it's value or more. I still like the Shimano Nexus 8 speed option if no hanger can be installed. We have one user on the forum who tours on his Bike Friday using this hub.

I have wanted a New World Tourist as my main touring bike but I can't help but think...what happens if (or rather WHEN) I get another bent hanger and can't so easily just get another one

How many derailer hangers have you broken/bent?

not so many bend..... but I had my share of messing up the thread inside while unbolting the derrailleur during transport ....
but that is not a bike specific deal....
thor

but I had my share of messing up the thread inside while unbolting the derrailleur during transport ....
br

That's my experience with the steel framed Ritchey Break-away Cross bike : packing and unpacking the bike for travel is more likely to cause thread damage.
A less than ideal fix is that really damaged thread can be drilled out and an off the shelf insert inserted.

I've sheered the dérailleur off ( the bolt is I believe designed to be brittle ) and the hanger survived. It was a however bit bent, but that was fixed with a big Bacho adjustable.

You don't need to remove the dérailleurs for transport when using a Bike-Friday. I travel a lot, almost 300 times a year. I only get to take my bike-Friday on about 30 or 40 of those. But that is still more than average. I can tell you that on two different BF models I have never had an issue with either dérailleur breaking.

quick ..find some wood and knock on it.... its karma ya know .... ...'

and I certainly wish that your good fortune continues and that you never have any problem with bend derrailleur hangers .....

If you hear the folks who are in favour of internal hubs versus derrailleur equiped bikes than must wonder how many derailleur hanger got bend in the past .... But I digress ...

Thor

It's easy to do. Most of us on this forum have had some kind of what I will call "one-time-big-problem". It is natural for us to want to prevent that from ever happening again.

good point, which is why I wear a helmet all the time. All it took was one big time hit on the uninsured and unhelmeted head.

quick ..find some wood and knock on it.... its karma ya know .... ...'

and I certainly wish that your good fortune continues and that you never have any problem with bend dérailleur hangers .....

If you hear the folks who are in favor of internal hubs versus dérailleur equipped bikes than must wonder how many dérailleur hanger got bend in the past .... But I digress ...

Thor

That internal hub seems to be a mixed bag. From what I read here and on the "Yak" e-mail list it seems they are not without their problems too. It also seems that you either hate, or love internal hubs... there is no in between. I think I'll stick with my conventional dérailleur system. I don't even use Bike-Friday's packing materials and I still have no problems.

Interesting side note... If you have access, try to read this month's Cycling-Plus magazine. They review a rough terrain touring bike that uses an internal hub. What is really interesting, and related to this discussion, is they include a dérailleur hanger as a BACK UP..... Neat idea I think.

I banged my head on some wood today by accident... does that count?

That internal hub seems to be a mixed bag. From what I read here and on the "Yak" e-mail list it seems they are not without their problems too. It also seems that you either hate, or love internal hubs... there is no in between. I think I'll stick with my conventional dérailleur system. I don't even use Bike-Friday's packing materials and I still have no problems.


Just guessing: Is it possible that you hear about the peopl that has got problems and you hear less about the ones that is happy about them?

My personal opinion s that bikes need maintenance, and most peopel find out the hard way. I think if you want a bike with few problems you need to learn about it and keep a close eye on everything. I think most peopel feel more comfortable with learning how the der works, to start digging innside IGH`s is not for everyone. Therefore small simple things can develop into bigger problems.

I think also a lot of peopel want many of gears since they can get it and therefor end up with complicated hubs that fails on them. For most "around town riding" 3, 4, or 5 gear hubs should be fine. Best is to keep one "beater folder" w few gears (or ss) and one bike for touring or similar. Also it is possible to keep a spare rear wheel with 7, 8 or 9 gears to put on when you need them.

Just guessing: Is it possible that you hear about the peopl that has got problems and you hear less about the ones that is happy about them?

That -- pretty much -- describes forum life in general ... no? One tends to read more from the outliers. ;)

Replaceable hangers are usually found on aluminum (and maybe carbon?) frames. To a large extent, this is because the failure mode of aluminum makes it inadvisable to bend aluminum back to shape (at least not without heat-treating). Carbon either doesn't deform permanently or else it breaks.

Bike Fridays are made of steel. Steel (and titanium) frames don't usually come with replaceable hangers because steel and titanium (may, depending on the actual damage) allow bending back into shape.

Well....steel alloys are in general stronger on a volume basis than aluminum alloys. The rear dropout/derailleur hanger is constrained by volume, i.e. standard axle/quick release dimensions and the expected placement of the derailleur in respect to the cog, so the designer can't make an extra thick aluminum alloy integral drop out/hanger to compensate for the weakness of aluminum on a volume basis.

tcs