Long Distance Competition/Ultracycling, Randonneuring and Endurance Cycling - Carbon bikes on brevets

Anyone here using carbon fiber bikes on brevets...any caveats or problems?

Thanks,
John

Just finished my 5th year of randonneuring on an all-carbon bike that's now got somewhere around 40,000 miles on it. No caveats, no problems. When this bike goes to the great bicycle rack in the sky, I'll replace it with another carbon bike.

I guess the only caveat is that if you ride a carbon bike on brevets you will have some people ask you, in complete seriousness, if you know what you're doing and aren't you afraid of your safety, etc., for chosing to ride a carbon bike. There's a fairly strong bias in the U.S. toward steel bikes and bikes that can take fenders, paniers, etc. for doing brevets. These comments get annoying. Take a look at some of the '07 PBP videos on the web and you'll see an incredible diversity of bicycles and frame materials represented. Carbon works just as well as anything else for brevets. The key is to pick a bike that's suited to your goals and style and then to make sure it fits you properly. All the self-righteous worry-warts who profess concern about your bike disintigrating under you and just feeling insecure because you made equipment choices that are fundamentally dfferent than theirs.

In all seriousness though... If you're looking for a bike that will take fenders and you want to hang heavy bags on it, carbon wouldn't be the best tool for the job.

Just keep in mind that most carbon bikes are designed more for fast road use, and may have too aggressive a geometry for longer rides.

Bikes like the Specialized Allez or Giant Defy Advanced will be a little more relaxed, and therefore better for long rides.

I've been using carbon bikes for brevets (including five 1200k's) for 10 years or so. I'm currently on a Colnago C-50. There is no problem with using them. I prefer them.

The only thing that matters is whether or not the bike fits and you are comfortable on it.

Thanks for the replies...I've been using my Ti bike for centuries and brevets but I am getting a can't say no deal for a carbon Pinarello and I would like to use this bike.

I've heard the comments abot "plastic" bikes and there are always stories about the wear and tear of carbon. My carbon fork on a ti bike is 50k into its life. I also ride a carbon recumbent. All the "rando" specific bikes are steel (with some exception) but at PBP the europeans were riding your pinarello.

a couple of pounds over 50000 feet of climbing starts to add up.

They do Paris-Roubaix on carbon bikes these days.. I wouldn't worry. Most of our brevets are on paved roads anyway, not sure about yours. I mean how much extra "wear & tear" do randos put on bikes anyway?

If you get any flak, just say, "My $5k, 25-lb custom randoneuse is at the shop."

Or, "The leather washers on my randoneuse need to be replaced, this is the backup bike."

There are a lot of truisms in the rando scene, especially about bikes/luggage, if you visit the front of a brevet you'll find that the bikes become much leaner and often are actually carbon, or don't even carry luggage at all. In my experience those at the middle/back are the "stereotypical" randos, while those at the front just do what works for them, regardless of what everyone else is doing.

Just don't forget to have fun, whatever you do.

ride the bike that fits, that you are comfortable on for long long times, and that is properly equipped for the task at hand. if you doubt any of the above, find a different bike, or get over your doubts.

and before building up my ti wonder machine i rode a carbon / steel lemond for a series. nothing crazy happened to the bike, other than i mounted up a brooks saddle, some clip on fenders, and 2 lights on the fork blades... it looked pretty goofy with all of its appendages, and if it actually fit i might have kept it around...

"All the "rando" specific bikes are steel"
I would think this would be more related to small/ custom production runs than utility of the finished frame.

I've been doing this for a very long time I have no idea what the term "rando specific bike." There is no such animal. It doesn't exist...

I've been doing this for a very long time I have no idea what the term "rando specific bike." There is no such animal. It doesn't exist...

It probably refers to slack angles but mostly that constructeur-specific fork rake angle made for front loads.

Beyond that, maybe space for fenders and extra braze-ons.

It probably refers to slack angles but mostly that constructeur-specific fork rake angle made for front loads.

Beyond that, maybe space for fenders and extra braze-ons.

What I was trying to say is that those things will make a rando bike for some people but they don't make a "rando specific" bike. Form me a rando specific bike is racing geometry carbon bike, (no front loads), a seatpost rack/bag, NO fenders, Schmidt hub laced to a Zipp 404's, all under 28lbs at the starting line in Paris (Or San Quintine). For other people a rando bike is a late 70's Schwinn Paramount. A rando bike "is" what you ride! That's it. I'm going to stop right there...;)

What I was trying to say is that those things will make a rando bike for some people but they don't make a "rando specific" bike. Form me a rando specific bike is racing geometry carbon bike, (no front loads), a seatpost rack/bag, NO fenders, Schmidt hub laced to a Zipp 404's, all under 28lbs at the starting line in Paris (Or San Quintine). For other people a rando bike is a late 70's Schwinn Paramount. A rando bike "is" what you ride! That's it. I'm going to stop right there...;)

I agree that a rando bike is the one you ride on a brevet, no question there.

I've taken a liking to my race bike on brevets (a Ciocc) - I just switch out the saddle for the B17, throw on the dynohub/E6, and it's good to go. But when the rainy season starts, I'll probably go back to the Pacer for brevets.

If you can stay on the bike for days at a time, it is comfortable, doesn't break down, and you love riding it, then it will work for brevet riding...

I've been doing this for a very long time I have no idea what the term "rando specific bike." There is no such animal. It doesn't exist...
Mercian Audax Special, Salsa Casseroll, Rivendell "A. Homer Hilsen" are a few. Maybe the Surly Pacer frame. I'm sure there are more out there, although there's so much overlap with sport touring bikes that I don't think many are strictly labeled as "audax" or "randonneuring" bikes.

Ironically the Masi Randonneur is marketed as a touring bike. Go figure. ;)

If you can stay on the bike for days at a time, it is comfortable, doesn't break down, and you love riding it, then it will work for brevet riding...

+1

I would add if you can comfortably carry what you want to --- scratch that, what you NEED to on the bike rather than your back.

I have ridden a steel frame, a titanium frame, an aluminium frame tandem, a steel frame tandem on several brevets each and my wife's Specialized Roubaix (a carbon bike) for part of one 600. If I were to get another single bike just for brevets, I would look very closely at the Specialized Roubaix. Lightweight and very comfortable. My wife has ridden everything from a 200 to a 1000 on it and likes it very much. Then again she has always had me around to carry some stuff for her so she has not needed a huge amount of pannier space. Some may question if you NEED a huge amount of pannier space. It all boils down to what works for you. Unfortunately, I can not answer that for you.

Bicycle Quarterly did an interesting survey of equipment at the 2007 PBP. See it here (http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com/BQPBPEquipsurvey.pdf). 22% of riders were on Carbon bikes. 47% were fenderless. Many other interesting equipment choices that don't fit with the stereotypical "Rando-specific bike."

Mercian Audax Special, Salsa Casseroll, Rivendell "A. Homer Hilsen" are a few. Maybe the Surly Pacer frame. I'm sure there are more out there, although there's so much overlap with sport touring bikes that I don't think many are strictly labeled as "audax" or "randonneuring" bikes.

Ironically the Masi Randonneur is marketed as a touring bike. Go figure. ;)


Why don't you include Colnago C-50, Specialized Tarmac, Scott CR1, Calfee Dragonfly, Seven VII... I've seen all these on brevets. I've also seen Rivendell's, Mercian's etc out on many ultra-distance races, century rides whatever. There are so many different bikes used on brevets it isn't even funny. There just is no rando specific bike. There is just the bike that you are using.

Why don't you include Colnago C-50, Specialized Tarmac, Scott CR1, Calfee Dragonfly, Seven VII... I've seen all these on brevets. I've also seen Rivendell's, Mercian's etc out on many ultra-distance races, century rides whatever. There are so many different bikes used on brevets it isn't even funny. There just is no rando specific bike. There is just the bike that you are using.

Dame, I thought putting bar end shifter on my CAAD3 would make it a rando specific bike! I better keep it down as a century bike:D

Why don't you include Colnago C-50, Specialized Tarmac, Scott CR1, Calfee Dragonfly, Seven VII... I've seen all these on brevets.
Because those are racing bikes which happened to get used on ultra-distance events. This is not to say that the "ONLY" bike you can use on a long ride is a Mercian Audax, only that a handful of bikes are specifically designed (and marketed) specifically for long rides.

I.e. I could use a Trek 520 in a crit, that won't make it a "racing bike."

I ride a specialized S-works tricross on most Brevets - it has clearance for wider tires and can handle fenders (has mounting points and plenty of clearance). It is by far the most comfortable bike I have ever ridden - and I have a 1983 Trek 720 which is the Cadillac Fleetwood of Bikes.

I was also with the Octopus late one stormy night when he and his carbon fiber bike hit a huge pothole and he went over the handlebars. He and his bike went another 160 miles on that brevet and the bike has quite a few miles on it since then.

Because those are racing bikes which happened to get used on ultra-distance events. This is not to say that the "ONLY" bike you can use on a long ride is a Mercian Audax, only that a handful of bikes are specifically designed (and marketed) specifically for long rides.

I.e. I could use a Trek 520 in a crit, that won't make it a "racing bike."

Who makes the definition of what a rando bike is??????? If you go to Seattle a lot of riders may describe a bike like what you've mentioned. They ride in the rain a lot and if it doesn't have fenders it's not a rando bike. If you ride a brevet in SoCal the predominant bike is what you call a "race bike." I call it a rando bike. Just because a bike has lax geometry doesn't mean that it is a better long distance bike than one with "race geometry" and because a bike is not marketed as a long distance bike doesn't mean it isn't one. I've done three RAAM's on "race geometry" bikes and I can tell you that I darned well wouldn't be out there on something that wasn't comfortable for a long ride! There is a lot of snobbery in the rando community (not you, but in general) when it comes to bikes. As far as I'm concerned, any bike you ride on a randonnee is a rando bike.

Homebay said: "I have no idea what the term "rando specific bike." There is no such animal. It doesn't exist ... As far as I'm concerned, any bike you ride on a randonnee is a rando bike."

One reading of this logic is that there presumably is also no such thing as a racing bike, a touring bike and so on. Presumably, if one rides a Kona Ute in a race, that's a racing bike!

Sorry, but I think that's not very useful way of categorising bikes. I claim to have a rando-specific bike. It was designed specifically for Audax and, yes, it has done PBP. It is designed to be fast, but not as fast as a racer (because over 1200kms you're never trying to ride on the edge). It is designed to be comfortable, because one of the key factors to whether your make it back to Paris is whether your body can survive for 3 plus days. And it is designed to be reliable, to get you home. Thus, its custom Habanero Ti, long wheelbase (inc. 45cm chainstays), slack angles with geometry designed for stability, 36 spoked wheels (Sapium CX-rays on CXP33 rims) shod with 25mm GP4000 tires, a suspension seat post, auxillary brake levers (because one spends plenty of time on the tops in Audax), has a tripple chain ring and a 11-28 on the back (thus minimising those redundant 1 tooth gear ratio differences), has long reach brakes and can accommodate fenders for when rain is forecast, etc etc. Some of this adds to weight over a racer, but Audax is largely constant pace momentum riding, so its a small price to pay to get you home.

Now, you are right that people ride a variety of bikes in Audax events, but that does not mean that there are not rando specific bikes. Of course, some bikes that are marketed as such are really just cheap steel 'light tourers' (fine for those who like that sort of thing), and many serious Audaxers would not consider them to be very good propositions for Audax - especially for longer brevets. But I have also seen one or two "Audax" bikes, or framesets, that seem to have been put together with similar considerations in mind to the ones I mentioned above.

Tom N.
Down Under

Just because a bike has a lax geometry does not make it more comfortable than a bike that does not have lax geometry. That is a myth. All lax geometry (increased rake) does is make the bike more stable (ie requires more steering input to turn) which is helpful if you are carrying a large load or like to ride with no hands. Comfort comes from positioning of hands feet and butt. A comfortable position for long distances can be had on any frame that fits you! If you are going to carry the kitchen sink with you (and many randoneurs do) then you should be on a bike with relaxed geometry. If not there is no need.

This is my definition of a rando specific bike (minus the aerobars for PBP of course):
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/Homey-B/bikePictures10-16-07003-1.jpg

It is designed to be fast, and comfortable, because, as you say, one of the key factors to whether you make it back to Paris is whether your body can survive for 3 plus days. It is also designed to be reliable, to get you home. Thus, it's a Colnago with lugged Carbon Fiber (fabbed by Ferrari), short wheelbase, tight angles with geometry designed for crisp handling, 36 spoke wheels (Mavic OP Ceramic) shod with 23mm GP4000 tires, a carbon seat post and seatpost mounted rack, has a triple chain ring (55/42/30)and a 11-28 on the back (thus minimizing those redundant 1 tooth gear ratio differences), no need (or room) for fenders since I rarely ride in the rain and when I do the ceramic wheels stop on a dime, etc etc. Some of this adds to the weight over a strict racer (28lbs at the start of PBP), but as you say, Audax is largely constant pace momentum riding, so its a small price to pay to get you home. Since it's got me home on five 1200k's and countless shorter brevets I think it's the prefect rando-specific bike!

Maybe I should start selling them... ;)

Here's a carbon bike made that is specifically for doing Audax events, the Pearson Audax pro (http://www.pearsoncycles.co.uk/product/3936/PEARSON_CARBON_AUDAX_PRO_2009):
http://www.pearsoncycles.co.uk/images/prod_3936.jpg

Nice reply Homeyba. You're bike sounds pretty nice and, with a few tweaks, could be a great Audax machine :). But rather than engage in a 'mine is bigger than yours' exercise, I'd like to explore your comment that: "Just because a bike has a lax geometry does not make it more comfortable than a bike that does not have lax geometry. That is a myth."

I agree that lax geometry does not necessarily increase comfort in the way most people think - eg less transmission of shock up the steering axis - but my understanding is that it does in at least one other way. Specifically, your butt is further behind the BB which means that your legs are doing more of the lifting (of your body) relative to your arms - that is, there is less weight on the arms. On ultra long distance rides, upper body strength becomes a limiting factor for many riders.

There are of course other geometry factors that affect comfort - TT length, HT length, wheelbase and compliance in the rear triangle. But I agree - lax HT angles are more for stability (though of course that also depends on fork rake and thus trail).

It probably refers to slack angles but mostly that constructeur-specific fork rake angle made for front loads.

Beyond that, maybe space for fenders and extra braze-ons.

That's exactly what I would consider it to be - plus designed to accommodate tires in the 28 - 35 mm range, integrated racks and lighting also. It doesn't mean if you choose to ride something different, you're doing something wrong, but there definitely has been a formula developed by a substantial segment of enthusiasts.

Nice reply ...I agree that lax geometry does not necessarily increase comfort in the way most people think - eg less transmission of shock up the steering axis - but my understanding is that it does in at least one other way. Specifically, your butt is further behind the BB which means that your legs are doing more of the lifting (of your body) relative to your arms - that is, there is less weight on the arms. On ultra long distance rides, upper body strength becomes a limiting factor for many riders.

There are of course other geometry factors that affect comfort - TT length, HT length, wheelbase and compliance in the rear triangle. But I agree - lax HT angles are more for stability (though of course that also depends on fork rake and thus trail).

It all depends on your body and what works for you! That is the single most important thing you can do for any long distance rider. We are all different and there is no single perfect model that fits everyone. Back in the 1990's, when I first got onto long distance riding (long before I first did RAAM) I went to a fitter (John Cutter). The goal was to fit me on a bike so I could be comfortable to do rides like PBP. I wasn't racing at the time so comfort was paramount. He had me on a fit bike for 6hrs. When we were done I had a set of numbers that laid out the geometry for the perfect long distance bike for me. It turns out the Colnago matched those numbers almost perfectly. I didn't go out to buy a Colnago, it just happened to be the perfect bike for me. If those numbers had matched a Rivendale or Waterford I'd have been on one of those.

You are correct that lots of geometry factors that affect comfort - TT length, HT length, wheelbase etc. but if you get those fit numbers and it turns out race geometry frame is the right one for you, buy the darned thing! My point is "randoneurs should be on whatever bike is the most comfortable bike for them." Racks, fenders, bags and all that other BS is ancillary and can be added latter to any bike if you really want it. Maybe not as conveniently on a carbon bike but it can be done.

People keep bringing up being comfy on the bike for 3 days (ie a 1200k). Nearly every RAAM racer is on a race geometry bike and they are on the bike non-stop for 9-11days. Do you think they aren't comfortable? I certainly wouldn't be out there for that length of time on a bike that I wasn't extremely comfortable on.

The bike itself doesn't matter nearly as much as your fit on that bike!!!! That's why I say a rando bike is the one you ride!

Nearly every RAAM racer is on a race geometry bike and they are on the bike non-stop for 9-11days. Do you think they aren't comfortable? I certainly wouldn't be out there for that length of time on a bike that I wasn't extremely comfortable on.



I've seen many a RAAM photo... and you couldn't sell me on the 'comfort' factor. ;) Its not like they are out there advertising for LaZboy.

I did a full brevet series on a racy bike, LeMond Carbon Steel Zurich. Liked it well enough - but for me fenders and wider tires were a must... so I built something out of Ti and steel.

And I agree with what else you said... Rider + Bike is what is important - not one or the other, but both.
And the equipment choice should take into account rider + skill + route + speed + etc. etc. etc. Some folks ride a long long way with a tiny seat pack and stuffed jersey pockets... others want a kitchen sink and toothbrush (on a 200k!) - so its a balance of all these competing needs.

It all depends on your body and what works for you...
True, but that does not alter the fact that certain specific design aspects will work best for most randonneurs. Hence it still makes sense to indicate there is a category of bikes we can call "randonneuring" or "audax" bikes, and riders can freely deviate from those as it suits them.




People keep bringing up being comfy on the bike for 3 days (ie a 1200k). Nearly every RAAM racer is on a race geometry bike and they are on the bike non-stop for 9-11days. Do you think they aren't comfortable?
RAAM is a highly competitive event, and its riders are both more fit and (I presume) more tolerant of pain and discomfort than most amateurs. They also do not necessarily select the most comfortable bikes, as they place more emphasis on time, efficiency and performance. It doesn't make much sense to compare the requirements of most amateurs -- even most PBP participants -- to a RAAM rider.

I've seen many a RAAM photo... and you couldn't sell me on the 'comfort' factor. ;) Its not like they are out there advertising for LaZboy
Stand around at the end of a 1200k and you'll see people in just as bad shape and they've only been on the bike for three days! Small problems get compounded as the distances add up. The RAAM guys/gals are racing but they aren't carrying a load of junk in their trunk either.




And I agree with what else you said... Rider + Bike is what is important - not one or the other, but both.
And the equipment choice should take into account rider + skill + route + speed + etc. etc. etc. Some folks ride a long long way with a tiny seat pack and stuffed jersey pockets... others want a kitchen sink and toothbrush (on a 200k!) - so its a balance of all these competing needs.

I think we agree, rider and bike are important. We could get into all the "crap" a large number of brevet riders carry but that's a whole other topic! ;)

There is a lot of snobbery in the randoneuring community. If you're not on a Rivendale (or equivalent) with fenders, panniers, 30mm tires handlebar bag... you don't know what you're doing. It's a bunch of BS. If I can get off my bike after a 1200k and feel good enough to turn around and do it again I don't care what bike I'm on!

...RAAM is a highly competitive event, and its riders are both more fit and (I presume) more tolerant of pain and discomfort than most amateurs. They also do not necessarily select the most comfortable bikes, as they place more emphasis on time, efficiency and performance. It doesn't make much sense to compare the requirements of most amateurs -- even most PBP participants -- to a RAAM rider.

Sorry, comfort is the single most important factor. You'll never get to the finish if you aren't comfortable on the bike. Efficiency, performance and light weight are important factors but comfort is paramount. The vast majority of RAAM racers are amateurs. I can count on one hand the pro racers who've done RAAM (two, that I can think of). You don't make any money racing in RAAM or any other ultra distance race that I know of. I can tell you that from personal experience! In fact you'd probably be surprised by the number of RAAM racers who came out of brevet series.

I should clarify one thing here. If you think fenders, big tires, panniers or handlebar bags are important factors for the bike you want to ride on a brevet there is nothing wrong with that! Go for it! Just make sure the bike fits you. For you, that is a "randoneuring bike," awesome! Just don't bag on the guy who thinks an uber-light carbon wonder is his/her "randoneuring bike." If it gets you there it's a randoneuring bike.

There is a lot of snobbery in the randoneuring community. If you're not on a Rivendale (or equivalent) with fenders, panniers, 30mm tires handlebar bag... you don't know what you're doing. That's gotta be a regional thing. I've seen reports from Americans at PBP that got a response of "wtf are you riding?" from Europeans. The last 2 brevets I have ridden were dominated by racing style bikes. Granted, the bikes had larger bags than a racer would use. I'm a little conflicted about putting fenders on my next rando bike. Rain has never bothered me much unless it's below 40F.

I think as time goes on, there probably will be more diversity in the style of bikes available in carbon. You can do anything you want with it, it doesn't have to be a lightweight racing geometry.

That's gotta be a regional thing. I've seen reports from Americans at PBP that got a response of "wtf are you riding?" from Europeans. The last 2 brevets I have ridden were dominated by racing style bikes. Granted, the bikes had larger bags than a racer would use. I'm a little conflicted about putting fenders on my next rando bike. Rain has never bothered me much unless it's below 40F.

I think as time goes on, there probably will be more diversity in the style of bikes available in carbon. You can do anything you want with it, it doesn't have to be a lightweight racing geometry.

You've got a good point there. It could be a regional thing. I've run into snobbery in the US on more than one occasion. Usually in the NW. Maybe they(from the NW) have run into it in SoCal because they are carrying all those bags, fenders and stuff in 100degree heat? In Europe though? I haven't run into it but they are people just like we are so why not?

One of the most beautiful sights at PBP was the bike room in my hotel (see attached photo). Now, you gotta figure that with all of the time and effort that people put into PBP, that the bike they bring is as close as they can get to their idea of the "perfect randonneuring bike". What is awesome is how much variation there is in "perfection"!

For me, as close to "perfection" as I've gotten is a Gunnar Sport steel bike with S&S couplers, Waterford fork, 700x30 Grand Bois tires, fenders, Schmidt hub and Cyo light, Carradice saddlebag and Lone Peak handlebar bag.

I know there are CF bikes that might fit the bill for my rando needs and that would potentially be a few pounds lighter than my current setup (3 pounds? if I maintain my other equipment but replace 7 pounds of steel with 4 pounds of CF?). But they are well outside my price range right now. Maybe someday I'll go for a ride on a CF bike, but for now I'm trying to avoid ever swinging my leg over something I know I can't have :-) (Can you get a coupled CF bike?)

One thing I have wondered is whether the vibration damping of a CF frame makes it so that the combo of CF with a 700x25 tire (do those fit with fenders?) is the equivalent of my steel frame with 700x30 tire? In other words, is the restriction to a smaller tire size on a CF frame really a binding restriction?

(By the way, none of the bikes in the photo is mine.)

Nick

I've largely stayed out of this this thread because Homeyba has been carrying all of the water for me. I'd swear, he and I were separated at birth. But I wanted to chime in to show some support and add an "amen" to the thoughts and ideas he's brought to this thread.

I've been randonneuring on an all-carbon "racing bike" since '05, including four full series and four 1200s, several fleches... hundreds of centuries, scores of doubles and a bunch of ultra races, too all ridden on that bike, set up exactly the same way -- geometry and tires -- as I set it up when I race a criterium. No problems. Nothing sore. Nothing aches. The bike hasn't turned into pixie dust.... It's a LD/randonneuring bike. It works for me. I have a ton of fun on it. I've also ridden all over the country (and in France) on that bike. Brevets on both coasts, in the north, in the south, in the 33F rain, in 100F heat... and even in the snow and ice on 23C tires. No fenders, ever.

I think there is some snobbery and elitism in the American randonneuring community. There's one guy who openly laughed at me and my bike and told me that I didn't know what I was doing as we awaited the start of a 1200K. He had the "traditional," beautiful lugged-steel very heavy bike with leather bags, leather saddle... you know, the bike that "specifically designed for randonneuring." Not terribly welcoming.

This idea that some bikes are more appropriate for long rides than others.... Folks, that kind of thinking really only exists on this side of the pond. Ride throughout the US, especially do some 1200s and take a trip to ride in Europe and you'll see a whole 'nother approach to this sport. It's awfuly tough to opine on what's "normal" or "standard" randonneuring equipment -- bikes, tires, lights, anything.... There is no standard if you pull the lens back and look at the whole global community. Even the generator lights that so many in the US speak of with religious zeal... you won't see many of the French or Italians using them. Want to tell the founders of the sport that they're doing it wrong? Good luck. Even in the Germans -- that hub is a German product -- seem to prefer battery-powered lights, at least at PBP.

Anyway... Just my $.02. I can't say it any better than Homeyba in post #34 -- right on! :thumb:

One of the most beautiful sights at PBP was the bike room in my hotel (see attached photo). Now, you gotta figure that with all of the time and effort that people put into PBP, that the bike they bring is as close as they can get to their idea of the "perfect randonneuring bike". What is awesome is how much variation there is in "perfection"!

It's awesome to walk around and take in all the different machines! I remember riding with a group of Italians during the day and they wouldn't let me near the front to take a pull (I don't blame them as they didn't know who I was) until it got dark. My light was about 20times brighter than any of theirs. In fact two of them had flashlights taped to their forks! Anyway after dark they started waving me to the front and suddenly I was their best friend! I think I rode on the front for most of that night.


(Can you get a coupled CF bike?)

Yes, I'm pretty positive that Calfee will couple their CF bikes. Now there is a nice CF bike! He can make it with big tires, fender/rack mounts or anything else your heart desires.


One thing I have wondered is whether the vibration damping of a CF frame makes it so that the combo of CF with a 700x25 tire ...

Nick

CF does dampen vibration in certain frequencies better than other frame materials but it's very subtle and you really won't notice a big difference until you start to pile up the miles, ie 100+. I run 23's on my bike and it's got a very nice ride.

I think there is some snobbery and elitism in the American randonneuring community. There's one guy who openly laughed at me and my bike and told me that I didn't know what I was doing as we awaited the start of a 1200K. He had the "traditional," beautiful lugged-steel very heavy bike with leather bags, leather saddle... you know, the bike that "specifically designed for randonneuring." Not terribly welcoming.

I'm kinda concerned about things from my angle. I am working my way towards being a randonneur from just a long-distance cyclist.

But, while I'm not a fan of carbon fiber, I'm also not a fan of "traditional". And I keep getting the vague feeling that the ground between non-retro-traditional and lightweight-carbon-fiber-traditional is just as rocky. :)

I've largely stayed out of this this thread because Homeyba has been carrying all of the water for me. I'd swear, he and I were separated at birth. But I wanted to chime in to show some support and add an "amen" to the thoughts and ideas he's brought to this thread.

Thanks for the support. :) I bet we've crossed paths a few times? What brevet series do you usually do?


I think there is some snobbery and elitism in the American randonneuring community. There's one guy who openly laughed at me and my bike and told me that I didn't know what I was doing as we awaited the start of a 1200K. He had the "traditional," beautiful lugged-steel very heavy bike with leather bags, leather saddle... you know, the bike that "specifically designed for randonneuring." Not terribly welcoming.

I had someone say something similar about my bike before the Cascade 1200k. He didn't realize I was standing there. He did apologized later so I really can't complain too much. 99% of randoneurs are the nicest people you could meet but no matter where you are there is always that 1%. ;)

Thanks for all the responses....its been good seeing the debate and helpful.

Thanks for the support. :) I bet we've crossed paths a few times? What brevet series do you usually do?

Ohio was home until recently. I've also done brevets with the Oregon Randonneurs, St Louis, North Carolina, Kentucky, ROMA, RMBC, DC Randonneurs.... Was just in your neck of the woods (well, its closer than the mid-west!) for the GRR in July....


99% of randoneurs are the nicest people you could meet but no matter where you are there is always that 1%. ;)

Amen. Most folks are awesome and very supportive or each other, and are especially helpful and encouraging of newcomers. For anyone reading this thread, definitely don't take my moaning about snobbery or elitism the wrong way. Randonneurs are a great community that I'm proud to be a part of -- everyone is welcome and encouraged to come join us. There are always a few jerks out there in any pursuit. And every discipline has its zealots and self-appointed purists and keepers of all things orthodox... randonneuring is no different.

I'm kinda concerned about things from my angle. I am working my way towards being a randonneur from just a long-distance cyclist.

But, while I'm not a fan of carbon fiber, I'm also not a fan of "traditional". And I keep getting the vague feeling that the ground between non-retro-traditional and lightweight-carbon-fiber-traditional is just as rocky. :)

Welcome to the Rando club. The overwhelming majority of randonneurs could not care less what you are riding. Ride what works for you.

As thebulls pointed out in an earlier post there is a very wide range of "perfect randonneruring bikes" at PBP. Frankly that one of the most wonderful things about randonneuring. I really enjoy looking at all the different kinds of bikes that show up at brevets. It would be a horrible shame if we were all forced to ride the same bike.

Ditto's to what reversegear said. You will get a lot of opinions as to what works and doesn't but they are nearly always given in a positive (or at least trying to be helpful) manor. Your job is to take what you think will work for what you want to do and leave the rest. With a little trial and error you'll end up with a randoneuring package that works for you.

Ohio was home until recently. I've also done brevets with the Oregon Randonneurs, St Louis, North Carolina, Kentucky, ROMA, RMBC, DC Randonneurs.... Was just in your neck of the woods (well, its closer than the mid-west!) for the GRR in July....

The GRR is a great ride isn't it? At least you had good weather this year. When Reversgear and I did it (the previous rendition) it was blazingly hot!

I had someone say something similar about my bike before the Cascade 1200k. He didn't realize I was standing there. He did apologized later so I really can't complain too much. 99% of randoneurs are the nicest people you could meet but no matter where you are there is always that 1%. ;)

Damn that's sad, I hope it wasn't someone from Seattle Rando!

Damn that's sad, I hope it wasn't someone from Seattle Rando!

I'd rather not say. ;) He did apologize later. Sometimes people say things they regret, I'll leave it at that. :)