Tandem Cycling - Keeping Guidance: First venture into tandems

I'm new to the Forum, but have lots of years of experience riding a single road bike - currently a 2005 Specialized Roubaix Pro (carbon/Dura Ace). My wife has been riding a road bike (2007 Trek Pilot 5.2 - Carbon/Ultegra). I do a number of centuries very year, including the fun TipleByPass, and do a lot of mountain pass climbing (live in Colorado). She has done a few events but not a century (did up to 80 miles). We are both in our 50s and would be a 300+lb team. When we ride together it's the usual challenge - I go ahead and keeping looking back and she struggle trying to catch up. So, we decided to explore a tandem! I've also being lurking around the Tandem forum and gathering all the great wisdom.

We are lucky to live near Denver and their is a local tandem specialist store - Tandem Cycle Works of Colorado. They sell KHS, Co-Motion and Calfee. Last week, they let us have a KHS (a bit of a tractor with no clips) to go tandem training and play in a local park for several hours. We quickly got "trained" and enjoyed testing out our tandem skills - only about 25-30 miles, but did lots of start/stops, emergency stops, etc. (what a lot of shifting). My wife loved it - we even passed a single Pinarello (briefly)!

Now for the challenge. Next we want to go test drive 2-3 bikes. My wife is worried about the price BUT also only wants to do this once (yeh, right). She went through the experience of buying four bikes before she settled on the Trek - liked the geometry, carbon feel and handling. Expensive experience.

So, what do we want to do with the tandem:
1. She wants to do a century together - suggested the TripleByPass (120 miles 10,500 ft @ up to 12,000ft).
2. Would like to do some multi-day tours of Colorado (Ride the Rockies, Bicycle Tour of Colorado, etc.)
3. Long-term would like to go touring in North America and Europe.

Criteria we are considering (more advice welcome)
1. Couplers for travel (don't have a large vehicle and it's seems to be the best way to travel).
2. Comfort - (it will be the steel vs. carbon debate) + a stoker seat-post (I read all the comments)
3. Performance - shifting (Dura Ace versus Ultegra debate), handling and climbing (Colorado).
4. Brakes (more debate, but I've being pushed toward disk, at least in the rear). I've had a blow-out on Hooser Pass (steep winding decent). Rear only? Both? What brand
5. Sizing. I ride a 54cm and my wife virtual 47cm WSD (43cm actual). These tandem sizes are a bit confusing. 21x18, 22x19, etc.
6. Price. I know I paid a lot less for my first car! Do they negotiate price? We do want to get it right (right bike first, then we worry about price).

The bikes we are looking at testing:
1. Co-motion Speedster Co-Pilot (couplers)
2. Co-motion Supremo Co-Pilot
3. Calfee Tetra S&S (maybe, don't know if they have the S&S version, but want to try the carbon).

What say you oh wise-ones? Opinions on these bikes? Features I should have (at least now)?

There are a lot more people with more miles than us, but I will give you my opinions. Have been at it for 11 years. The first is already done. Sounds like you can coexist on the tandem. For some that both ride singles, that can be a challenge. So you want to do it once......:lol::lol::lol::lol:
Anyway, we tried a few before our first purchase, and ended up on a Cannondale. We now ride a Co Motion. Love the bike, handling is great. It is equipped with all Ultegra. Has been flawless. I need to swap my chain now, (tonight) so shifting is starting to get a tiny bit touchy. Just my opinion, but Dura Ace is light weight, but in general is not as durable for long term wear. The tandem puts more strain on the drivetrain, so I would stick with that. Just my opinion! Couplers. don't have them, so can't give any pros and cons, but make sense for what your intentions are. We went from aluminum to steel, and very happy with the change. We test rode an aluminum Santana, and weren't that thrilled with it. Our steel Co Motion weighed in close to our old Cannondale. I actually think it was less. We have a rear disc brake. Again going from the first one with just rim brakes, I wanted more. Once it seats and brakes in, it has worked well. We do not have the terrain that you have, but I would recommend that, or a drum. At least you can give the stoker something to do if she controls the drag brake. (Disc looks cool and high tech!) Keep up with maintainence, and adjustments, and you should have a blast. Tell her whats coming, or your back or butt will pay. (Smack or pinch from the stoker. depending on the severity of the infraction.) Enjoy and good luck.

Paul

1. Couplers - Down side is cost; they bump-up the cost of a tandem by anywhere from 25% for something like a Periscope that only uses four to 30% on a Speedster. A Calfee goes from $4,773 (frame & fork) to $6,768 (frame & fork). Also, bear in mind that this only covers the cost of adding the couplers to the frame and does not include the cases which are the realm of $700 - $900 for two. Don't get me wrong, couplers are a wonderful convenience item so you just need to do your own cost-benefit analysis with respect to how fast you'll amortize the added cost. Finding a second-hand tandem with couplers and cases is definitely something to investigate.

2. Comfort - Carbon is plush, but steel can be made to ride plush through careful selection of wheels and tires. However, if cost is no object then you owe it to yourself to test ride a Calfee... and, well, that'll likely be an eye & checkbook opening experience if you've ridden a few other tandems before hand.

3. Performance - Components are a personal thing, so you'll need to wrestle with that one. As for handling, Co-Motion and Calfee are on the same page in the geometry / handling department. Having a stocking dealer near by will allow you to sample the different brands and that will resolve any other questions about handling: each brand tends to build all of their tandems to handle the same when comparing apples to apples.

4. Brakes - Rim brakes with the option of installing a rear disc and/or drum remains a default recommendation. If you're a heavy team that will do loaded touring the drum may be a better choice. If you're just looking for belt & suspenders for the occasional epic ride with a challenging descent the disc provides that. I've not found anything that works better than a box-stock Avid BB7 Road w/203mm G2 Clean Sweep rotor. Our Calfee has front & rear rim brakes (dual calipers) and can be fitted with a rear disc when we feel like we'll need or want it. We ran it last winter just to get it broken-in but it's been back in the trip-kit since April.

5. Sizing - Tandems tend to be sized for the Captain and use a middle-ground height for stokers that accommodates +/- size riders of a fairly wide range. Given that you and your wife are proportionally designed the same way most of Co-Motion's and Calfee's tandems are, you should do fine with a stock Small or Medium sized frame dependent on your inseam & reach. In fact, the 28.5mm stoker compartment will probably be adequate as well. I say adequate only because we favor longer rear stoker compartments as Debbie at 5'2" likes to have a little more breathing room while retainng her single bike riding position on the tandem, hence our tandems have stoker compartments that are about 1.5" longer than Co-Motion or Calfee's stock lengths. Again, this is a very personal thing and I'd venture a guess that 97% of the tandems on the road use stock length stoker compartments, even on many of the customs.

6. Price - Dealers who sell tandems for a livelihood and the manufacturers do not typically discount new tandems. You can sometimes find New Old Stock (NOS) tandems or demo bikes being offered up by a diligent search of the internet, but other than a dealer / manufacturer throwing in custom sizing or a paint upgrade gratis when business is slow, you'll be hard pressed to get a deal unless you're a shop owner buying a personal bike and can get a non-stocking dealer wholesale discount from the manufacturer. When I last checked, Co-Motion and Calfee both had healthy backlogs so I don't think anyone's out there trolling for customers and chumming the waters with discounts.

The bikes we are looking at testing:
1. Co-motion Speedster Co-Pilot (couplers)
2. Co-motion Supremo Co-Pilot
3. Calfee Tetra S&S (maybe, don't know if they have the S&S version, but want to try the carbon).

Nice list of great tandems. Just recognize the difference in price betweent the Speedster and Supremo is the upgraded / go-fast components; both models use the same heat treated Reynolds 725 tubeset on their coupled models that you find on the Primera, not the air hardened Reynolds 631 tubesets used on the non-coupled Speedster & Supremo. Yes, Calfee offers their Tetra Tandems with couplers ($1,995 option using the Aluminum S&S couplers), but not on the uber-light Dragonfly or their Bamboo frames.

It sounds like you've already determined your needs and a great short list of long bikes that would answer them, and also got some expert advice here

My slight addition - I had two tandems - santana visa and a nice classic Orbit - when I lived in uk and the kids were growing up. Lots of memorable rides, parents on front and kids on back from when they were 8 or so to 18 or so - and we used to drive a lot with both of them on the roof on a good roofrack/carrier to get to places throughout UK and Europe. Easy enough, stable at European motorway speeds, and on top of a 'compact' Ford Escort and Renault 'Savanna' wagon (called 'Nevada' when Renault still sold in USA).

So, I don't feel S&S necessary for road trips. Adds money, weight and complexity. Get a specialist rack, put 'em on the roof. For air travel, again, I'd question the break-even for foreseeable trips' excess baggage charges against additional cost of the couplers. Might be 10 or so transcontinentals before S&S pays its way - and in that case, you might be one of BikeFriday's target customers for one of their very good folder tandems

Enjoy the options

[QUOTE=wobblyoldgeezer;9423813] with both of them on the roof

The tandems, you understand I'm sure. We were kind enough to let the younger generation travel inside the car

Enjoy the options

Along with wobblyoldgeezer, I would not get Couplers for traveling with the tandem by car. The amount of work needed to take the bike apart and put it back together is not worth it, for car trip.

For half the price of couplers, you can buy a great tandem rack for the car.

Couplers start to make more sense for airline travel. However, you can travel with a tandem by air without couplers. We have a case for a full size tandem and fly with a full size non coupled tandem about once a year.

Unless you fly alot, you're not going to recover the cost of the couplers, although they make flying more convenient.


If you decide against Couplers, then that brings other bike possibilities into play, such as a Co-Motion Robusta, (or at your team weight a Macciato). I realize your point about comfort, but there is a lot to be said for oversized Aluminum for a tandem fram where lateral rigidity is really important.

I think you'll find a Robusta will ride about as close to high end single bike as any tandem out there.

Criteria we are considering (more advice welcome)
1. Couplers for travel (don't have a large vehicle and it's seems to be the best way to travel).


I don't think that most people with coupled tandems routinely break them down just to transport them in their car; that just seems like too much trouble. I have seen fully-assembled tandems carried in all imaginable ways, however.


Criteria we are considering (more advice welcome)
2. Comfort - (it will be the steel vs. carbon debate) + a stoker seat-post (I read all the comments)
5. Sizing. I ride a 54cm and my wife virtual 47cm WSD (43cm actual). These tandem sizes are a bit confusing. 21x18, 22x19, etc.


Standover height for the stoker is not as important with a tandem as with a single bike, but if you intend to get a stoker suspension seatpost (Thudbuster or PivotPlus) be sure that the stoker's seattube is short enough to accommodate the suspension mechanism. It would be the pits to purchase a bike that works OK with a regular seatpost and find out later that a suspension post makes it too high.

I would not get Couplers for traveling with the tandem by car. The amount of work needed to take the bike apart and put it back together is not worth it, for car trip.


Consider how you might use the tandem and car for travel before dicounting the couplers.

For example: I am planning a 1 way trip from home, San Jose,Ca to Cambria, Ca. Once in Cambria I will be able to easily break the bike into to sections and fit it in most rental cars. An uncoupled bike would require renting a larger vehicle which might not be available in rural locations locations.

I'm new to the Forum, but have lots of years of experience riding a single road bike - currently a 2005 Specialized Roubaix Pro (carbon/Dura Ace). My wife has been riding a road bike (2007 Trek Pilot 5.2 - Carbon/Ultegra). I do a number of centuries very year, including the fun TipleByPass, and do a lot of mountain pass climbing (live in Colorado). She has done a few events but not a century (did up to 80 miles). We are both in our 50s and would be a 300+lb team.

We're not quite into our 50s, but close, and just a tad under 300 lb. Less performance riding on our singles than you.


When we ride together it's the usual challenge - I go ahead and keeping looking back and she struggles trying to catch up. So, we decided to explore a tandem! I've also being lurking around the Tandem forum and gathering all the great wisdom.

I think you've already figured this one out, but you can figure 3x the price of your single for a tandem you'll be happy with. Assuming it's new. And couplers are on top of that.


My wife is worried about the price BUT also only wants to do this once (yeh, right).

Sounds familiar. We bought a $7000+ custom as our first tandem so as to do it only once. We'll see. At this point we remain optimistic, but it's only been 5 months.


So, what do we want to do with the tandem:
1. She wants to do a century together - suggested the TripleByPass (120 miles 10,500 ft @ up to 12,000ft).
2. Would like to do some multi-day tours of Colorado (Ride the Rockies, Bicycle Tour of Colorado, etc.)
3. Long-term would like to go touring in North America and Europe.

Credit card or self-contained (after you buy the bike will you still be able to afford credit card touring? ;) )
The reason I ask is self-contained and carbon don't go together as well. Your rack (esp. front) choices being further limited than they already are. Specifically, you don't get braze-ons for a front rack, and attaching the rack to the forks with D-bolts is a little scary, since you'd be squeezing on carbon's weakest dimension. You could still pull a Bob, but that's heavier than an equivalent set of panniers (although not as expensive as a high end set - e.g. Arkels).


Criteria we are considering (more advice welcome)
1. Couplers for travel (don't have a large vehicle and its seems to be the best way to travel).

We have couplers, and I still don't know whether it was the right choice. In addition to the cost, which TG already pointed out, there's the weight - 2 pounds for six on a steel bike with a lateral tube. Proportionately less on a bike without a lateral. And less tubing choices for the frame builder, they say (although Bilenky does retrofits, without apparently asking about the frame). If you go back through the archives here and on Hobbes you'll likely get more heat than light on the topic. We can (barely) get the Bilenky into the back of our Prius, with just the two of us in the car, but ours is much larger than yours will be (I'm 6 1/4 feet tall). We expect to use the couplers mostly for partly breaking the bike down - a full breakdown being needed for flying, but a partial being sufficient for many purposes.


2. Comfort - (it will be the steel vs. carbon debate) + a stoker seat-post (I read all the comments)
3. Performance - shifting (Dura Ace versus Ultegra debate), handling and climbing (Colorado).

I have XT and it works fine. Emphasize durability. The very high end tends to emphasize weight with little or no performance improvement. You will need to learn to both soft-pedal for downshifts on uphills, no matter what your drive train.


4. Brakes (more debate, but I'm being pushed toward disk, at least in the rear). I've had a blow-out on Hooser Pass (steep winding decent). Rear only? Both? What brand

Easy to generate more heat than light on this one too. No pun intended. The rim vs. disk debate will go on and on. I have cantilevers on the rims and a drum. The drum comes off when not touring (should have gone on for last week's tour [including 1 20% downhill of about a km - with a stop sign at the bottom :mad: ], but we made it with no blowouts). The drum adds about 2 lb, but without the drum typical rim brakes are lighter than typical disks.


5. Sizing. I ride a 54cm and my wife virtual 47cm WSD (43cm actual). These tandem sizes are a bit confusing. 21x18, 22x19, etc.

The shop should be able to get this right. But if in doubt, look at all the geometry of your single, and see how well the geometry of the tandem matches. Sometimes takes some searching to get full geometry info. Some of it is at http://www.gtgtandems.com/dimensions.html
For her, you won't get a perfect match, but there is more adjustability. Interference between her bars/hand and your legs may limit adjustability.


6. Price. I know I paid a lot less for my first car! Do they negotiate price? We do want to get it right (right bike first, then we worry about price).

The bikes we are looking at testing:
1. Co-motion Speedster Co-Pilot (couplers)
2. Co-motion Supremo Co-Pilot
3. Calfee Tetra S&S (maybe, don't know if they have the S&S version, but want to try the carbon).

What say you oh wise-ones? Opinions on these bikes? Features I should have (at least now)?

Consider how you might use the tandem and car for travel before dicounting the couplers.

For example: I am planning a 1 way trip from home, San Jose,Ca to Cambria, Ca. Once in Cambria I will be able to easily break the bike into to sections and fit it in most rental cars. An uncoupled bike would require renting a larger vehicle which might not be available in rural locations locations.

I understand if you're going to be travelling with trains, planes, rental cars, couplers are an advantage. (but you still need to consider how frequently you're going to do so.)

My point to the OP was that couplers really aren't a time effective answer for getting the bike around by car to the start of group rides, centuries, etc. because the hassle factor isn't worth it for trips like that.

Just a few comments from someone with a grand total of 700 miles on our tandem.

Steel Frame: We test rode a steel Co-motion, steel daVinci and an Aluminum Santana. Regardless of frame material a CF fork made a big difference. The Co-motion was not so equpped and I received a lot of road vibration through the handlebars. That isn't to say that certain roads won't be capable of given the captain a buzz regardless of technology. Our steel frame daVinci provides an extremely good ride for the Captain and the Thudbuster stoker seat post works well. Maybe with a CF frame and depending upon stoker weight you can skip the Thudbuster, but there is no way to alert the stoker in time for every unseen bump. If you're riding with an SO I'd go Thudbuster. I'm sure CF is a fabulous ride, lighter, etc. and if cost is almost no object I'm not sure there is a downside.

Riding Challenges: Two experienced cyclists (you and your wife) will get the mechanics down pretty quickly, but as captain will still have to deal with the difference in your abilities. Descending and rolling on the flats will be no problem whatsoever; the speed will be gratifying and could easily be made terrifying on a downhill. Climbing is a different story. It is taking me a while to understand my wife's climbing ability and to put us in the right gear. We have four chainrings and if I wait too long or misread a climb the load on the drivetrain makes it almost impossible to shift the FD. There is a natural tendency for the load to shift toward the captain as I try to adjust my climbing expectations downward. You can be lonely in a crowd of singles on a tandem as they pass you on the uphill and you blow by on the downhill and in the flats.

General Comments: Best money my wife and I have spent in 5 years. We really can ride together. We're using a wireless intercom which greatly improves the experience; things get pretty noisy at tandem speeds and my hearing isn't what it used to be.

My point to the OP was that couplers really aren't a time effective answer for getting the bike around by car to the start of group rides, centuries, etc. because the hassle factor isn't worth it for trips like that.

Not true regarding time and hassle of short trips. It is quite easy and little fuss. The front third on a Co-Mo can be on and off in a couple minutes. We can usually get our Speedster out of our Toyota Matrix and be ready as fast or faster than those on trunk racks with both wheels off.

Not true regarding time and hassle of short trips. It is quite easy and little fuss. The front third on a Co-Mo can be on and off in a couple minutes. We can usually get our Speedster out of our Toyota Matrix and be ready as fast or faster than those on trunk racks with both wheels off.

You have to take apart 3 couplers, and 3 cables. Then when you've got it apart you need secure the 2 ends of the bike in the vehicle in a fashion that they don't scratch each other or something else.

And if you have a smaller car, you're going to need to further disassemble the bike.

I'm assuming, but stand to be corrected, that when you reassemble the bike you'd want to check the cable adjustments to make sure the derailleurs are still hitting perfectly.


Conversely to put a tandem on a draftmaster rack is a matter of taking the front wheel off, about a 10 second job.

Obviously different people have different preferences and needs. To me, unless you're doing a lot of air travel, I'd rather save the money, 2 pounds of weight, and not have limitations on frame choices.

I'm going to throw a different thought process at you. We're relatively new to tandeming, having purchased our first tandem about nine months ago, a gently used Cannondale with several performance upgrades (carbon fork, lighter wheels, lighter breaks, better seats). This is a nice ride with much less investment than you're considering. We plan to ride this one a few years to give us a feel for likes and dislikes of the tandem experience, then upgrade to the "dream bike". We anticipate passing the Cannondale on for close to our investment. We were simply not comfortable making the new bike investment without more knowledge. During this learning period we're doing what we can to meet other tandem teams and learn from them. We've joined the local tandem club, participated in a tandem rally (GREAT TIME, and wow, the dream bikes!), and joined as many tandem rides as we can. Other tandem teams are more than eager to share their experiences and opinions. I must admit that what i thought my dream bike would be last year is different that what i would choose today.

Good luck!

From what you've described, sounds like you will enjoy a tandem. Our situation is quite similar and the tandem has been the equalizer for us. We love it.

As a fellow Coloradoan, be mindful of the climbing and descending. You have outlined some big rides for a tandem. As you are probably aware, a tandem can go very fast downhill and slow up long climbs. Does your stoker mind going fast downhill on her single? We have a Supremo with rim brakes (sometimes wish we had disc brakes) and it took a few thousand miles or so to get more used to the speed on some downhills. Maybe a drum brake depending on your comforts with speed?

Also, FWIW, we briefly rode a friends coupled Supremo and we couldn't believe how much smoother the ride is than ours (their is 2006 and ours is 2001). We swapped their 32 spoked wheels (I think) with our Rolf's to see how much difference the wheels were for our bike and it was significantly smoother. For comfort, you may consider more traditional spoked wheelsets.

Good luck.

We're in Colorado as well. We have an older (1998) steel Co-Motion w/couplers. We got a drum brake on the advice of some experts but rarely use it (it sits in box in the garage). The brakes are "V" brakes. We've never done the Triple Bypass but have done Ride the Rockies 3 times. You might need a hub (disc or drum) brake if one of you doesn't like speed. Otherwise rim brakes are fine for most applications. The last time we used it was descending Mt. Evans (I was glad to have it then).

The couplers make airline travel easier but not easy. It is still a trade-off. However if you are both avid cyclists and dream of cycling vacations together, I think they are worth it.

If your stoker likes being a stoker, you've won 90% of the battle. The rest is just details. The secret to successful tandeming is a happy stoker.

I seem to remember a someone in Vail selling a Calfee (on craigslist, I think) for a pretty good deal though the captain's position was pretty small.

Welcome & good luck.

PS - though some do, we never take the bike apart for local auto transport. We got a Tandem Topper roof rack that works quite well.

Consider how you might use the tandem and car for travel before dicounting the couplers.

For example: I am planning a 1 way trip from home, San Jose,Ca to Cambria, Ca. Once in Cambria I will be able to easily break the bike into to sections and fit it in most rental cars. An uncoupled bike would require renting a larger vehicle which might not be available in rural locations locations.

You'd be surprised what you can fit an uncoupled tandem into.

We fit both our Santana and the Calfee into our 98 Civic 4dr, with both front seats in their normal positions, back seats folded down.

Only had to:
- take off both wheels
- loosen stoker stem

I have a pic I can post later.

We usually used a trunk rack with the front wheel removed, and the bars turned for the Santana, but we would put it in the car for road trips.

We have decided it's easy enough to load the bike inside, that we will not be using the rack on the Calfee (it will always be inside).

...I think you've already figured this one out, but you can figure 3x the price of your single for a tandem you'll be happy with. Assuming it's new. And couplers are on top of that.


The new tandem will be 3X the cost of your single???? I think that will depend on what you are riding. I have a Calfee which isn't the cheapest of tandems and it was maybe 20-30% more expensive than my single bike...

Lot's of good advice here.

The only thing that I would point out is that you can descend thousands of feet in elevation without ever touching the brakes on roads that are designed for speeds of 50mph or more. On these roads there is no need for a disk or drum brake unless you are a heavy team or are loaded for touring. On the other hand, if you get on a road with steep descents and hairpin turns where you are running from 40-50 mph to 10-20 mph to make it around the corner with short distances in between a disk or drum is really nice to have around. Especially if it is hot out. Consequently some riders will never see the reason for having a disk or drum brake while others will see it as being mandatory equipment - depending upon where they ride. People on this forum come from all over and there is a wide range of experiences. I think that it is important to keep this in mind when viewing the drag vs no drag brake debate - opt for the experience that most closely matches your own.

We are in California and view a drag brake as being mandatory equipment. The disk is much lighter and I find has more stopping power than a drum. On our tandem the captain controls the rim brakes while the stoker controls the rear disk brake. This setup was recommended by our bike builder and another couple that rides brevets like we do. While it takes some getting use to, we have grown to like it for the steep technical stuff. (A typical training ride of ours goes down a very steep hill that has been used by the Tour of California many times for example.)

Have fun on the tandem.

The new tandem will be 3X the cost of your single???? I think that will depend on what you are riding. I have a Calfee which isn't the cheapest of tandems and it was maybe 20-30% more expensive than my single bike...

Is that because you were on a RAAM tandem team sponsored by Calfee or because your long distance Colnago single costs so much:lol:

The Tandem Cycle Works folks know their tandem stuff. There will be no bickering on price but maybe a free rear rack or some bottlecages? Or a deal on last years model or a demo that fits properly.
Get to test ride as many models/brands as you are interested in.
S&S is an expen$ive, and perhaps unnecessary, expenditure unless you will take a multitude of airplane trips. Even today folks have been charged for S&S tandems packed in suitcases . . .
A carbon forks will be a plus; a full carbon tandem would be even nicer.
Suspension seatpost may not be needed on steel or c/f bike; however on aluminum it almost becomes a necessity
Would not suggest to do the Triple Bypass as a first time century as tandem newbies.
Have ridden 325 miles in 3 days with 22,000+ feet of climbing, finishing at 103 degrees in our younger days (were in our late 50s then). Stoker did not wish to repeat that event the next year (it snowed anyway), although she has over one hundred centuries to her credit.
As for equipment . . . Ultegra is pretty well D/A from a couple seasons ago.
Brakes? Would go with V-brakes with *option* for either drum or disc, in rear only.
In our 225,000+ miles of tandeming, we have ridden down some long twisty mountains with only canti brakes; with V-brakes; with caliper on front and V brake in rear. All worked fine.
Heck, for a first tandem you could be better off buying a good used one; after a year of riding you'll be a lot more knowledgeable and know what you like/dislike.
Buying a tandem 'just once' is like saying: have sex . . . 'but just once'!
You control the purse, you decide!
Good luck.
Pedal on TYWOgether!
Rudy and Kay/zonatandem

Is that because you were on a RAAM tandem team sponsored by Calfee or because your long distance Colnago single costs so much:lol:

Probably a little of both I guess... :D

Speaking of brakes, one of my stokers once pointed out that most all tandems have a stoker emergency brake. Whether they have actual control with a brake lever or not. The brake cable runs along the top tub...maybe I should keep my mouth shut...:roflmao2:

I'm assuming, but stand to be corrected, that when you reassemble the bike you'd want to check the cable adjustments to make sure the derailleurs are still hitting perfectly.


When you reassemble the bike you definitely want to check everything, including the cables.

So far, in the half dozen or so re-assemblies we've made, when we did check, no cable adjustments were needed.

Key to this, is too make sure the bike is properly serviced and adjusted before you take it apart and careful packing to make sure that adjustment sensitive components are well protected.

The only issue/panic I've ever had was with a stuck seatpost when I went to pack the bike two days before a trip. Now I check, disassemble and re-grease seatposts, crank arms and similar items a week or two before departure to avoid any last minute surprises.

Now I check, disassemble and re-grease seatposts,


Just a word of caution. If you own a carbon bike do not grease the seatpost or you will be really bummed when you next sit on the bike!

I’ll do a bulk response here to save some time. It's still a long response. First, thank to everyone for their wisdom, great suggestions and interesting debate points! Here is where I’m leaning, but still need to do lots of testing and deciding.

I will be test riding the Co-motion Supremo Co-Pilot, a Calfee Dragonfly and maybe a Co-motion Speedster tomorrow. Now, that sounds like a fun “work” day.

Couplers: On the bikes being tested the delta on price for couplers is about $2,000. SS on the Co-motion and Al on the CF. I believe that most who commented on the “local” travel not needing couplers is the right and an economical decision. I have a trunk rack for our two singles today (can fit 3). The tandem would fit fine, with the front wheel removed. I drive an older V70 Volvo, so it’s big enough. Roof-rack is also an option for road trips (will remember to put just the bike on the roof-rack [wobblyoldgeezer].

The issue is on air travel. We plan (hope to) to do some trips to Canada, Europe and other places in the US. From what I have learned the airline policy and practice is all over the place. For a full tandem you could get charged anything from $40 to $400 per trip. And what they tell you over the phone is not the same as what the practice at the counter. Then there is the challenge of car rental when you get to another location. They don’t (generally) do bike racks and definitely not tandem bike racks. No too many option on large vehicle rental in Europe unless you want to deal with the parking challenges also. The cases make it easier to handle. The cost and the assembly/disassemble are the big drawbacks. Cases (need a pair) go from $500 (soft) to $1,000 hard. Say $3K. That would be an 8- 75 trip payback!! I’m sure airlines are not going to get easier, as the look for every way to make money.

On the touring type [WebsterBikeMan] it should be credit card or fully supported. Looking for the American Express Black card ;) At this stage of our life, our idea of roughing it, is the Holiday Inn or Formule 1 (France). Great advice on the CF limitations on racks, although I saw a Calfee well outfitted for self-contained touring (somewhat) - http://www.thetandemlink.com/calfee_tandem_12.html
Brakes: I’m a speed demon – regularly 50+ on a single on Passes – Fremont (N), Loveland (S), etc. My stoker probably never goes past the 30s. But, she enjoyed it when we did the tandem test and wanted me to go faster!! There appears to be tandems with three sets of brakes – front, rear and drum!! The thought of two people being capable of breaking (other than an extreme emergency), scares me [reversegear]. I’ll take the punch in the back instead. For all the big climbs/descents in Colorado and the ones we hope to do in Europe (Alps, Pyrenees), I think the advice of a disc in the rear (Avid BB7 Road w/203mm G2 Clean Sweep rotor – thanks [TandemGeek]) and Shimano calipers in the front sound good. A drum appears to add too much weight for the limited use.

Performance: On the drive train it looks like Ultegra is a good compromise between shifting capability and wear (thanks [pablopsd, WebsterBikeMan]). I love my D/A (lighter, smooth shift), but they do wear faster.

Comfort: Will do the carbon versus steel test drives. A CF fork appears to be a given on a steel frame [rdtompki, zonatandem]. We will test the stoker comfort with a regular seatpost. I’m definitely told to have a Thudbuster with aluminum. But we are going to stay away from Al. Thudbuster is still an option [swc7916, rdtompki]. I’m good with road hazard notification, but you always miss something (I hate valve covers that blend with the pavement. They come in packs!!).

Wheels: The trade off of performance versus comfort. Are the Rolf really uncomfortable [HowellGC] and versus what other wheel set(s)? I will test both. I ride on Mavic Kyserium SSL on my single.
Sizing: Thanks for the guidance and the sizing link [WebsterBikeMan]. Looks like a small or medium. I’m 5’ 9” (1.75m), inseam 83cm and my wife is 5’ 2” (1.57m). I like to be stretched out. My stoker does not. The life of compromise! Not sure we are up to the Robusta/Macchiato standard [merlinextralight]. Need to lose a few pounds and get back in shape. Seems like a young couples challenge. We are going the wrong way, age-wise, speed and climbing ability. No Robusta/Macchiato at LBS.:(

General: I like the idea of a wireless intercom [rdtompki], do deal with the issue of wind noise and hearing (or is that heeding!) issues. I saw a Blue Ant InterPhone (Australian) recommended somewhere. Very light, can deal with 80MPH wind noise (built for motor bikes), but only has 5 hours of battery life.
Definitely will not do the TripleByPass as the first century [zonatandem]. Did it a few times in well under 8 hours. There is no hope of doing it in anything near that on a tandem.

Descending Mt. Evans [oldcura] probably needs disk or drum brakes, but definitely a Thudbuster!

Price: Cost is always an object [TandemGeek]!! Still waiting for the PowerBall to come in. I’m not sure it’s quite the 3X price challenge of a single [WebsterBikeMan]. My current single as outfitted was in the $4,500+ range, but I get your point. Carbon, couplers (e.g. Calfee Tetra S&S) with top end components can get you to $13K quickly.

The ultimate and biggest challenge. Do you go for the dream machine now or work up to it over a number of years. My wife’s experience on her single would says no. Then again we are tandem novices. Thanks - [DKMcK]

I have looked at Craig’s List and just missed a Co-Motion Supremo (couplers and all the goods) in Highlands Ranch for $6,500 a few weeks ago (New $9,000+) about a month ago. Did not see the one in Vail [oldcura]. Will continue to look. There are some options on 2008 stock that is $500-$700 less than 2009 for Speedster and Supremo models. Looks like we should look at Cannondale too [pablopsd, DKMcK]. Need to find more dealers.

But now off to the LBS, tomorrow. I will update on my experiences.

Local Dealer: Yes, it wonderful having a local dealer with stock and they apparently ships bike all over the place. Patrick and Lynn at Tandem Cycle Works [zonatandem] have been great.

It's all downhill from here :thumb:

Just a word of caution. If you own a carbon bike do not grease the seatpost or you will be really bummed when you next sit on the bike!

Hmmmm... that depends: From October 11, '05 VeloSooze Technical Q&A with Lennard Zinn (http://velonews.com/article/9023)



Dear Lennard,

Thankfully! An opportunity to dispel the myth that one shouldn't grease a carbon post! I don't know where the myth started, but carbon composites are not affected by grease. Our advice is simple: If the seatpost fits tight, grease it. If it slips, de-grease it. As has been known for many years, when aluminum and carbon fiber contact each other, galvanic corrosion can start. That is why Calfee uses a fiberglass sleeve as a seat tube shim. Aluminum seat tube (or sleeve) and a carbon post will result in corrosion of the frame and possible seizure of the post within the frame. A carbon sleeve on an aluminum post will result in corrosion of the post. Salty environments accelerate this corrosion. Anodizing merely slows it down. About the only common chemical that will hurt carbon fiber is paint remover (which attacks the resin between the fibers). But there are many solvents that will dull a nice paint job.

Craig Calfee

That said, I have found that we needed to use Tacx Dynamic Paste and/or FSA's Carbon Assembly Paste on the seat posts that went into our carbon frames. Therefore, I can appreciate that had I used grease on any of our composite framed bikes the seat posts would have likely twisted and/or worked their way deeper into the seat tubes during the subsequent ride.

Wheels: Are the Rolf really uncomfortable [HowellGC] and versus what other wheel set(s)? I will test both.

Compared to a set of conventionally spoked 36h wheels using a similar deep-section rim and the exact same tires / same PSI, the two different sets of Rolfs we've owned ('07 & '08 models) transmit more road shock and exhibit quite a bit of lateral deflection under side loads and alter the handling of our tandems.

During our testing the '08 Rolfs with their 31mm rim depth exhibited far more lateral deflection than the '07 Rolfs which use a 34mm deep rim which is what prompted their replacement with the '07 models.

IMHO, Rolfs are ideally suited for time trials, road races or fast recreational riding on non-technical road courses with relatively smooth roads, for most other applications a conventionally spoked wheel would likely be a better choice. For elite-level competition, a true deep-section racing wheel approved for Clydesdales and/or lightweight tandem teams would be a better choice vs. the Rolfs.

Great advice on the CF limitations on racks, although I saw a Calfee well outfitted for self-contained touring (somewhat) - http://www.thetandemlink.com/calfee_tandem_12.html

Two data points here since that's our Calfee in credit card touring mode:

1. Our Tubus & Ortlieb pannier configuration is only configured to accommodate very lightweight loads, e.g., extra set of clothing, shoes, and what-not needed for a day trip... not full-blown self-supported touring.

2. If you plan to use a rear rack and panniers on a Calfee (or any custom tandem for that matter), be sure to discuss this with your builder at length. The builder will need to know how much weight you plan to put in the panniers and if you'll need longer rear stays to accommodate the panniers relative to your stoker's heel clearance. Craig did ask about this and we opted to go with short stays and premised only a very light load on the rear rack carried low in panniers.

3. If someone were truly commited to wanting a carbon framed touring tandem that doubled as their performance tandem a second fork fabricated out of steel would easily address front panniers and for not a lot of dough-rey-me. A Co-Motion steel fork comes immediately to mind as an off-the-shelf solution and a custom fork that would have the identical geometry as the carbon fork it would replace for touring wouldn't cost all that much more than a new non-custom steel fork. Again, the more important aspect of such a dual-purpose tandem would be making sure the rest of the tandem's frame was designed to accommodate the expected loads and stoker heel clearance.

I don't think the Dragonfly would give a good camparison to a coupled Tetra. The coupled Tetra will be much stiffer. Just something to keep in mind.

Calfee cautioned against using the Yakima rooftop rack with a carbon tandem. The Yakima rack grabs the bottom tube.

When we travel we keep the Tetra inside. Either in the back of our Prius (coupled) or in a rooftop storage box (uncoupled). The couplers give you a lot of options.

Cases (need a pair) go from $500 (soft) to $1,000 hard. Say $3K. That would be an 8- 75 trip payback!! I’m sure airlines are not going to get easier, as the look for every way to make money.

There's actually a picture of a Bilenky coupled tandem in a single case. You might need to go custom to make that work, though. Certainly not at our size!
http://www.sandsmachine.com/pack_t4.htm



There appears to be tandems with three sets of brakes – front, rear and drum!! The thought of two people being capable of breaking (other than an extreme emergency), scares me [reversegear]. I’ll take the punch in the back instead. For all the big climbs/descents in Colorado and the ones we hope to do in Europe (Alps, Pyrenees), I think the advice of a disc in the rear (Avid BB7 Road w/203mm G2 Clean Sweep rotor – thanks [TandemGeek]) and Shimano calipers in the front sound good. A drum appears to add too much weight for the limited use.
[QUOTE=fitzpgb;9430116]
Where you put the drum brake control is a matter of personal preference. Our Bilenky has it under stoker control; our kids' Santana has it controlled with a bar-end shift lever on the captain's bars.



Performance: On the drive train it looks like Ultegra is a good compromise between shifting capability and wear (thanks [pablopsd, WebsterBikeMan]). I love my D/A (lighter, smooth shift), but they do wear faster.

And bear in mind that many tandem parts wear around twice as fast as single parts.


Price: Cost is always an object [TandemGeek]!! Still waiting for the PowerBall to come in. I’m not sure it’s quite the 3X price challenge of a single [WebsterBikeMan]. My current single as outfitted was in the $4,500+ range, but I get your point. Carbon, couplers (e.g. Calfee Tetra S&S) with top end components can get you to $13K quickly.

OK, within limits. I was speaking from our experience. I looked for a reasonably equipped equivalent to my 25-year old touring bike, and tripled that, and it matched what I paid for an equivalently equipped touring tandem. If you start at $4500, you can probably be happy with just doubling it.


It's all downhill from here :thumb:
Have fun.

There appears to be tandems with three sets of brakes – front, rear and drum!!

You seem surprised; three brakes on a tandem is quite common. The drum is a drag brake and is controlled via a thumb or bar-end shifter. You set it and let it drag to hold your speed down. Drum brakes are designed to handle the heat generated in this situation whereas disk and rim brakes will get too hot if used continuously. I like having the drum on our bike and routinely set it on a hill by our house that has a steep section with tight turns and bad pavement; I've had the bike gain too much speed going into that stretch and didn't like it. It also keeps me from scaring my stoker.

FWIW: Many tandem experts didn't/don't consider a drag brake to be necessary. Even back in the '70s -when Mafac cantilevers were state of the art - Angel Rodriguez considered two rim brakes to be adequate and didn't run a drum on his own bike.


The thought of two people being capable of breaking (other than an extreme emergency), scares me

You don't have to give the stoker one of the brakes; our drum is controlled via a bar-end shifter on the captain's handlebars. (I believe that you meant braking, not breaking :))


Descending Mt. Evans [oldcura] probably needs disk or drum brakes, but definitely a Thudbuster!

This is definitely the stoker's call. We have gone from a Tamer PivotPlus to a Thudbuster and back. My wife much prefers the PivotPlus.

Hmmmm... that depends: From October 11, '05 VeloSooze Technical Q&A with Lennard Zinn (http://velonews.com/article/9023)



That said, I have found that we needed to use Tacx Dynamic Paste and/or FSA's Carbon Assembly Paste on the seat posts that went into our carbon frames. Therefore, I can appreciate that had I used grease on any of our composite framed bikes the seat posts would have likely twisted and/or worked their way deeper into the seat tubes during the subsequent ride.

That was an interesting article. I didn't know that Calfee uses fiberglass sleeves as seat tube shims. The dissimilar materials explanation makes a lot of sense and is a no-brainer. I know there are those special "gritty" grease you mention that can be used on carbon seat post. I also know that I spent the better part of a 600k continually re-adjusting my seatpost after my LBS greased it, not a whole lot of fun.

I know there are those special "gritty" grease you mention that can be used on carbon seat post.

Actually, these pastes with their small plastic microspheres (i.e., the stuff that makes them feel gritty) can be used on just about any type of material used for a seat post, handlebar, stem, etc. instead of grease or any other coating to guard against corrosion while making a more secure bond. It's pretty neat stuff but best purchased by the tub vs. the obscenely expensive little one-time-use packets.

Wheels: Are the Rolf really uncomfortable [HowellGC] and versus what other wheel set(s)? I will test both.

TandemGeek gave you better answer than I can.

Nonetheless and FWIW, our riding experience on our tandem is limited to the one we own with Rolf Wheels. We wanted to try our friends 'upgraded' tandem, and they had a 32/36 spoke wheelset on it and not the Rolfs that came with their tandem. Their 2006 coupled supremo is a smoother ride than our 2001/2 supremo with Rolfs. We tested their wheels on our supremo and there was a noticeable difference in the smoothness of the ride. We didn't test them enough to gauge a difference in overall speed. We do like going fast on our tandem, and the Rolfs appear to be fast.

...the Rolfs appear to be fast.

True statement: the Rolfs with their reduced number of bladed, paired spokes do indeed generate less aero drag than higher count, round spokes found on most conventional wheels.

Also, while the Rolfs could be characterized as 'less comfortable' that same vertical rigidity coupled with their lightweight also makes them feel a bit more lively JRA (just riding along).

When coupled with the lower wheel-only aero drag -- remembering that your and your stoker's bodies are where the massive amounts of aero drag comes from -- the Rolfs truly do make a tandem feel like it's moving along significantly faster than on conventional wheels. However, in reality and the bump in net speed increase is probably on the order of low single digit percentages. N

ow, if you have optimized your on-bike riding positions for aero-efficiency then you'll get an even bigger bang for your buck because after the riders and their gear, wheels are indeed where you can scrub off some aero drag and the deeper the rim the better: check-out Merlin XL's Zipps if you're looking for an example of just how deep a rim needs to be to reap big gains in performance.

Fitzpqb - your coupler cost analysis is a bit off. You added the travel cases to the coupled bike situation but not the uncoupled bike. I don't know how much a case for an uncoupled bike is but probably not cheap.

If your V70 has a roof rack, you can get an ATOC Tandem Topper for about $350 (?). They work well on vehicles with low rooflines.

If you don't end up buying your "ultimate tandem", the resale value holds much better than single bikes & you can likely get a good portion of your investment back - especially if you buy used to start with.

If you do buy new, I think the advice to get a frame that can handle rim brakes as well as a disc is wise. That way you can make this decision sometime later.

Regarding the three brakes and two hands problem and our solution to have the stoker control the rear disk I completely understand that this is not a solution for everyone.

Here is why we use it.

While using a setup where I had both rim brakes on one lever and a drum on the other we blew a front tire off on a hot day going down a very steep hill. Without going into the discussion as to why/how this happened, it is my and my stoker's opinion that it was caused by an over heated front rim. This is why WE use a rear disk now. Blowing the front tire off the rim on a 20% downslope, at speed, scared us big time. The only reason we did not go over the guardrail is because there happened to be a house with a driveway exactly where we needed it. This is a remote area and we feel that the probability of having a driveway where we need it next time is slim - your views on this may be different than ours. We choose life without broken bones and road rash. Don't like drag brakes - don't use em, just don't run into me.

Due to this experience, we switched from two brakes on one lever to having the rear drum on a thumb lever. This works ok if you are going straight, but on sharp corners it tends to set the bike up vertically and makes it harder to corner. I found myself moving my hands around the handlebars a lot more than I wanted to, to work the drag brake on steep curvy descents.

When we were having our new custom bike built, the builder suggested that the stoker have control of the rear drag brake. At first I was very much against the idea, primarily as I was afraid she was not going to use it. On her single she descends like Homeyba who is insane!;) I am somewhat more reserved, but so far, only one bike, a fully faired velo car has ever tried to pass me on a descent. And in that situation, we were riding in a pack of tandems on the "specials" start at PBP. I could not move out of position without hitting someone else, I still don't know what he could have been thinking, but he found that passing at that point was a bad idea as he ended up crashing and taking everyone out behind me with him when a cobblestone median appeared out of the darkness - in the rain.

Anyway, I digress. My stoker is a very experienced rider and we ride fairly regularly and it took about a year to get use to the set up. It requires the stoker to know when the captain wants to use the rear disk and yelling at that speed does not work so she just has to know your thoughts. It takes a lot of practice and obviously not many stokers or captains want to go through that. It does work for us though.

Your results may vary.

...Now, if you have optimized your on-bike riding positions for aero-efficiency then you'll get an even bigger bang for your buck because after the riders and their gear, wheels are indeed where you can scrub off some aero drag and the deeper the rim the better: check-out Merlin XL's Zipps if you're looking for an example of just how deep a rim needs to be to reap big gains in performance.

When I bought my tandem for RAAM we were looking for a fast aero wheel set. We were thinking of a Zipp 808 in the rear and 404/505 in the front. We learned from talking to an engineer from Zipp the deeper dished 808 would actually be weaker than the 404 because of the increased angle from the rim to the hub on the tandem. He advised against using too deep of a dish. Additionally, most aero wheels have a minimal number of spokes. If you go this route, you will have to buy a rim, have it custom drilled with the number of holes you require and build it yourself. I run Topolino wheels and Zipps on my Calfee. both work great but the Zipps are noticeably faster on the top end. Probably only a small amount but definitely noticeable.

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/Homey-B/CIMG1074.jpg

I run Topolino wheels and Zipps on my Calfee. both work great but the Zipps are noticeably faster on the top end. Probably only a small amount but definitely noticeable.

.... I would have expected there to be a dramatic difference between the Topolino wheels and the Zipps. I'm not sure if it's the bearings or the girthy spokes and terminators that bear the brunt of the blame, but even our 36h conventional wheels are more efficient than the Topolinos, never mind the Rolf wheels.

I bring the bearings into play only because the wheels exhibited very similar spin-down characteristics in terms of rotational decay when I did some bench testing on unloaded wheels. However, when we ride with friends they can hold our wheel without touch the brakes when we're descending on our 36h White Ind / Deep-V wheelsets. This has been the case on two different tandems and three different White Ind / Velocity wheelsets. However, when we have the Topolino's fitted to the Calfee they find they're constantly on the brakes and/or they can take the lead.

Actually, to be completely candid, I think the conventional 36h White Ind. / Velocity wheels may even roll faster than the Rolfs which is weird since the Rolf's use White Ind hubs as well. Regardless, of all five sets of wheels we've used on the Calfee, while the Topolino's are the most comfortable and best looking they seem to be the least efficient at least at the higher end of the speed envelope. Also on the plus side is their lateral stiffness: they're on par with our 36h conventional wheels in terms of cornering stability which puts them head and shoulders above the Rolf wheels which can be downright scary on technical descents that put a premium on lateral wheel stiffness. What has yet to be proven is long-term durability and support for either the Rolfs or Topolino wheels since all of our wheel swapping has created a situation where none of the wheelsets on our Calfee has more than 1,000 miles of use.

Anyway, less I digress... I really didn't want to hi-jack this thread by turning it into a boutique wheel thread.

....Anyway, less I digress... I really didn't want to hi-jack this thread by turning it into a boutique wheel thread.

I think it's all good and at least semi-related to the OP plus it's all good information. At least it didn't digress to the wing ratios of unladen African swallows. :D

1. Couplers for travel (don't have a large vehicle and it's seems to be the best way to travel).


Since you are in Colorado, there are a lot of places to travel to by car for your rides. There isn't so much need for you to travel by plane to experience great rides. Get a tandem without couplers, but plan on getting a car that will easily accommodate a tandem. For example, we have a Honda Odyssey, which gets 21 mpg, takes a tandem upright, and is super comfortable for trips. I figure if we get tired of the variety of rides we can drive to in California, we are tired of cycling.

We used to have a Santana tandem and really loved it but got rid of it when my wife started having orthopedic issues. The first thing I learned about tandem riding is you may be the captain but the person behind you is the rear admiral :lol:. If you can remember that you will have the time of your life.

I'm having trouble making sense of this:


Regarding the three brakes and two hands problem and our solution to have the stoker control the rear disk I completely understand that this is not a solution for everyone.

Here is why we use it.

While using a setup where I had both rim brakes on one lever and a drum on the other we blew a front tire off on a hot day going down a very steep hill. Without going into the discussion as to why/how this happened, it is my and my stoker's opinion that it was caused by an over heated front rim. This is why WE use a rear disk now. Blowing the front tire off the rim on a 20% downslope, at speed, scared us big time. The only reason we did not go over the guardrail is because there happened to be a house with a driveway exactly where we needed it. This is a remote area and we feel that the probability of having a driveway where we need it next time is slim - your views on this may be different than ours. We choose life without broken bones and road rash. Don't like drag brakes - don't use em, just don't run into me.

Assuming that the blow-out was caused by an overheated rim, why are you blaming the drum brake? The drum can't cause a rim to overheat and besides, it's on the rear wheel; it can't cause a front tire blow-out. Were you using the rim brakes as drag brakes rather than the drum?

From what I can figure out, you now have two rim brakes controlled by the captain and a rear disk brake controlled by the stoker; is that correct? No wonder it has taken a year to get used to this setup; the disk is intended as a primary brake, not a supplemental drag brake. I would consider moving control of the drum drag brake to the stoker because since she's not steering it would be easier for her to set or release it under speed, but not a primary brake like a disk.

I'm having trouble making sense of this:



Assuming that the blow-out was caused by an overheated rim, why are you blaming the drum brake? The drum can't cause a rim to overheat and besides, it's on the rear wheel; it can't cause a front tire blow-out. Were you using the rim brakes as drag brakes rather than the drum?

From what I can figure out, you now have two rim brakes controlled by the captain and a rear disk brake controlled by the stoker; is that correct? No wonder it has taken a year to get used to this setup; the disk is intended as a primary brake, not a supplemental drag brake. I would consider moving control of the drum drag brake to the stoker because since she's not steering it would be easier for her to set or release it under speed, but not a primary brake like a disk.

Sorry for not being clear.

I believe the rim over heated as on our old Santana it was set up when we got it with both rim brakes actuated by one brake lever. The problem with this setup is that getting both brakes adjusted correctly and keeping them there is not easy. While I was using the drum brake also, the drum brake does not have the stopping power of a rim brake.

Working off the assumption that the rear rim brake was not engaging completely, forcing the front to work harder, I switched the drum from a standard brake lever to a thumb shifter/lever allowing both rim brakes to be actuated by a single lever.

On our new Steve Rex, we have two rim brakes and one disk - no drum. The rear disk is used as the supplemental drag brake. Since the rim brakes have more stopping power, the captain has control of them via one lever each. The stoker controls the rear disk which we use as a drag brake.

The only time she hits the brake is if we are in the mountains. We have ridden thousands of miles without her ever touching the drag brake. We rode PBP without a drag brake even on the bike.

Still, like a parachute, it is really nice to have when you need it.

Generally, the stoker does not allow the bike to go much over 50mph and slows it down on the straights coming into a turn. The captain then take over with the rim brakes as I can modulate the brakes for the final entry into the turn. Therefore we allow for maximum cooling time on the rim brakes. The only exception to this is when we ride something really steep, like Balcom Canyon for those of you who may be familiar with it, which is very steep and has a 10mph corner on it. If we build up too much speed before the turn there is no way you can slow down enough on the 20% downslope to make the turn. Using the disk only to keep the speed down is not very effective as after a short time the brake starts to fade. On something like this we switch off between the rim brakes and the disk. Allowing both some cool time. We have been riding this about once a week lately and have gotten pretty good at it.

I hope that helps.

After my post, I found this link...

http://www.bicycling.com/article/1,6610,s1-3-10-14162-1,00.html

Latest update on a search for the “Ultimate First Tandem”

We did the test rides on three tandems yesterday.

1. Co-Motion Speedster Co-Pilot, with Wound Up carbon fork, Rolf wheels, front & rear BB7 disk brakes, FSA Gossamer crankset, Ultegra drive set and a stoker Thudbuster seatpost.
2. Co-Motion Supremo Co-Pilot, with Alpha Q fork, Rolf wheels, rear BB7 disk brakes (Dura Ace 7800 calipers on the front), FSA SL-K crankset and Ultegra drive set and a stoker Thudbuster seatpost.
3. Calfee Dragonfly with Wound Up Carbon Disk fork, Rolf Prima Vigor Tandem wheelset, FSA SL-K ME Carbon Tandem Crankset and also Ultegra drive set.


They did not have a Calfee Tetra with couplers in our size. Although there was a customer’s bike in the shop – looked beautiful – Carbanet Red, with Rolfs, etc. The Dragonfly and Tetra a very similar for 2009. The tube sets are the same diameter. The dragonfly has Boron in the CF mix, making it stronger [actually stiffer] and lighter, but you can’t put couplers on it. And here is a surprise, the price is lower.

It’s wonderful to have a specialized tandem shop in your area. I have looked in other bike shops in the Denver area and no one else appears to have tandems. Other than the one “major” bike shop that told me they had a mountain bike tandem. Turned out to be a street tandem. Oldacura, know of any other area tandem dealers or bike shops?

Looked at the Cannondale online – Road Tandem 2. It’s an aluminum frame, front/rear BB7 disks, Fatty R (??) fork, 105 drive set and CF wrapped seatposts. I can feel my stoker (rear admiral) beating on my back already. The bike color is any color you want, as long as it’s white.

Well, all of the test bikes rode very well and the stoker was very happy, even with my high cadence and she enjoyed passing those singles, including the surprised guy on the time trial bike. Yes, it was a fairly flat 2 mile circuit closed test area. One for the old folks. We really liked the Calfee. You had better like it at those prices. Have not settled on anything yet and will probably go back for another “final” test once we narrow the field. The Co-Motion Speedster actually rode better than the Supremo. Although the Supremo needed to be setup a bit better. It was just out of the box and needed to be tuned in.

Couplers: Despite the costs and all the rides we have locally, we are leaning that way. We have done lots of the Colorado rides on singles, but have more to do too. Plus doing them on a tandem will be different. But we want to explore CA, the NW, Canada east/west coasts and Spain, France and Italy. The hassle factor alone of dealing with a coffin carrier for a full tandem may be worth it. I believe a full tandem quality case is about $700. Yes, I did not account for that in the break-even analysis. Not sure that buying a $20K+ Honda Odyssey (a beautiful vehicle) is a better solution either. No kids or pets, so no other use for it. Maybe I can avail of the Cash for Clunker program!! :) The hassle of moving a coffin case is significant. Not an issue if you have a roof rack or a large enough vehicle. What about when you get to your destination? Will you pick-up ride have the right vehicle, will you have to rent (if available) the right vehicle and in Europe! Let’s say, the European (I’m originally European) definition of large is different from the US. Plus try to find a parking space for a large vehicle in a European town/city.

Brakes: For now it’s disk on the rear and calipers on the front. Both controlled by the captain. Anything else is too complex. We will consider a drum in the rear, if my back gets soar. ;):lol:

Swc7916, remember I’m a single biker, with about 6 hours of tandem experience!! I like going fast downhill. The only drag brake I have today, is just above the saddle.

Wheels: The Rolk’s appear to be a reasonable compromise between performance and comfort.

Stoker Seatpost: Either the Thudbuster or PivotPlus.

Drive train: While the Ultegra did not shift as nicely as my single Dura Ace. A factor of the cassette sized (11-28t vs. 12-25t) I recon. I believe the Ultegra will work fine and last longer.

Price: I’m still in shock. Then again, I looked at what my current single would cost today (~$7.6K). I did not know we were at a 15+% annual inflation rate. Still waiting for my bank manager to return my calls.

More advice, different opinions? Appreciate all the great feedback. I’m not quite at the TandemGeek and Homeyba wheel nuance discussion level yet. Maybe after a few thousand tandem miles.

We are picking up speed now :thumb:

Not sure that buying a $20K+ Honda Odyssey (a beautiful vehicle) is a better solution either. No kids or pets, so no other use for it.
:thumb: Exactly! We used the same logic when we purchased our coupled bike. A pet peeve of mine is the cost of ownership of a larger vehicle and/or roof rack is not often factored into the cost/benefit calculation of couplers. If you already own a large vehicle, great. However, couplers are money savers if like us you own a smaller car and don't want to spend $ to supersize or to add a roof rack (which also lowers fuel mileage).

In a month we will be touring from Pittsburgh to Washington DC. We plan to get rental car to drive back. We plan to get an SUV, but if they are not available we don't need to panic, we can break the bike down into three pieces in a matter of minutes.

I'm having trouble making sense of this:



Assuming that the blow-out was caused by an overheated rim, why are you blaming the drum brake? The drum can't cause a rim to overheat and besides, it's on the rear wheel; it can't cause a front tire blow-out. Were you using the rim brakes as drag brakes rather than the drum?

From what I can figure out, you now have two rim brakes controlled by the captain and a rear disk brake controlled by the stoker; is that correct? No wonder it has taken a year to get used to this setup; the disk is intended as a primary brake, not a supplemental drag brake. I would consider moving control of the drum drag brake to the stoker because since she's not steering it would be easier for her to set or release it under speed, but not a primary brake like a disk.

Having ridden just about all of the brake combination s mentioned in this thread, I have experienced problems with some drums on some tandems where it was nearly impossible to adjust the drum so that it would spin AND function as a brake. To be sure this occurred on an older (very older) tandem, but the net result was that the drum was useless to us and if we had relied on it to slow our descents we could have blown a tire from overheating. I currently use a rear disc which works well for me, but riding here in Ohio, just about anything would work.

Frank and Terry

Couplers: The hassle of moving a coffin case is significant. Not an issue if you have a roof rack or a large enough vehicle. What about when you get to your destination? Will you pick-up ride have the right vehicle, will you have to rent (if available) the right vehicle and in Europe! Let’s say, the European (I’m originally European) definition of large is different from the US. Plus try to find a parking space for a large vehicle in a European town/city.



We've traveled with an uncoupled tandem in Europe in a full size case. It can be done, but it definitely can be a hassle. We could get the tandem in the case in a relatively small hatchback, with the back seat flipped down. (you need a total length of 72")

On one occassion, we had to get 2 cabs in Paris to get from the airport to the train station; one for the bike and one for us.

Also, you can't take the bike on the TGV in France.

If traveling by air is a significant portion of your plans, either in the US or Europe, I think couplers make a lot of sense.