one of the arguments I see alot about not wearing helmets is that people say "our insurance rates go up because of you helmet less jerks!" (or something like that...)


but I was just thinking about something along the same lines, that is, really really fat people. don't these people cause the insurance rates to go up along the same lines as helmet less folks? there are so many health related issues with being super fat. how come I never hear people complain about them?

Living in a vacuum??

How about smokers? How about drinkers? How about people with high cholesterol? How about people with high blood pressure? How about sexually promiscuous people who get STDs and homosexuals and IV drug users who get HIV/AIDS? What about people who don't wear seat belts? What about people who jaywalk? What about people who...........

I don't particulary like seeing a family with young kids all riding helmetless and the wrong way on semi-busy streets. Its not like the kids wouldn't ride if the parents role modeled it and then when there older can decide if they want to.

Al

How would it be determined who is "fat"?

There has been some talk of "fat taxes", mostly referring to food, i.e. fast food and junk food. The problem I have with that is that the same thing will happened that happened with a lot of tobacco settlement money. It was supposed to go toward tobacoo education and underage prevention, but mostly it went to general revenue. I know that in Missouri, our entire tobacco settlement money went into general revenue. You can't trust that politicians will spend the money where it is originally intended. I should know. I'm sure they'd say that it will go into excercise, education and health programs, but it won't.

The fact is that all taxes we pay go into general revenue, just as all government spending goes into general revenue. It's as simple as that. Taxing something simply provides the government more money to spend on various things indirectly. However, the issue is not where the money gets spent. After all, if politicians want more revenue, they can always just find something else to tax. As far as I'm concerned, the sole issue is just who pays for this "revenue", and the fact is that people who compulsively eat junk food are a greater drain on that general revenue than those who take at least rudimentary steps to look after their health. As a consequence, I'm quite happy if this fact is recognised by taxing habits that lead to people becoming a drain.

I don't particulary like seeing a family with young kids all riding helmetless and the wrong way on semi-busy streets. Its not like the kids wouldn't ride if the parents role modeled it and then when there older can decide if they want to.

Al

Most people who are not avid cyclists believe that it is safer to ride the wrong way down a street. All of us here know this is untrue, but the perception people have is that they are safer if they can see the cars coming.

Living in a vacuum??

How about smokers? How about drinkers? How about people with high cholesterol? How about people with high blood pressure? How about sexually promiscuous people who get STDs and homosexuals and IV drug users who get HIV/AIDS? What about people who don't wear seat belts? What about people who jaywalk? What about people who...........

How about people who ride 20 lb. bikes on the same streets as 5,000 lb. cars. Probably not the safest thing to do. Maybe our insurance rates should be higher.

How about people who ride 20 lb. bikes on the same streets as 5,000 lb. cars. Probably not the safest thing to do. Maybe our insurance rates should be higher.

Depends. Nobody has yet provided any statistics that indicate cycling on those streets is any more dangerous than driving on them. I know that I don't feel in any particular danger riding on such streets (and I've been doing it for years). I'm not asking why one "thinks" it's dangerous, or why logic tells you that "it surely must be" dangerous, let's see some proof that it is.

How about people who ride 20 lb. bikes on the same streets as 5,000 lb. cars. Probably not the safest thing to do. Maybe our insurance rates should be higher.

Exactly. When carried to the logical extreme, you inevitably indict yourself.

First of all to all of you that hate fat people & have said nothing but insulting remarks in this thread piss on all of you & shame on all of you!!!

Yes I am a fat person. And yes you struck a nerve.

(This next part is for the pisser's & moaner's who can do nothing but ridicule those of us who are fat, but have never been fat themselves, so bear with me). It must be nice to not have to deal with being fat. I hear nothing but a lot of pissing and moaning & how you all think the problem should be solved. But the truth is none of you have a DAMN clue to what it is really like to be fat. Do yourlselves and the rest of humanity a favor, SHUT THE HELL UP about it until you have been educated on the matter properly!!!

As for the rest of you who are or where at one time fat & for those that are educated on the matter, please try to teach the rest of these idiots a little about what they think they are talking about before someone gets really pissed off at them.

Some of you ***** & moan because fo the high insurance rates because you think fat people cause them to go up. I have yet to see conclusive proof of that for one. So before you make such an idiotic comment maybe you ought to find the conclusive proof for yourself first.


There is however conclusive proof that smoking does have an impact on the health insurance rates. And unlike a fat person, a person who smokes does directly impact your health through second hand smoke. Fat people have no direct adverse affect on a thin persons health.

Finally, I am doing something about my obesity to get rid of it. It is called riding my bike as much as possible & eating right. I am not doing this to help prevent a proposed fat tax, or because I am concerned about how I look for other people, (I really don't care what other people think as to the way I look), nor am I doing this because of what my doctor told me or because I care what other people think, again I don't care. I am losing the weight for my own health, to prevent the possibility of diabetes or a heart attack, etc. So it has nothing to do with what others have said to me or what others think about it, because it is not for them. As selfish as it is to do something for myself, losing weight is for my benefit & mine only.

First of all to all of you that hate fat people & have said nothing but insulting remarks in this thread piss on all of you & shame on all of you!!!
Yes I am a fat person. And yes you struck a nerve.....So it has nothing to do with what others have said to me or what others think about it, because it is not for them. As selfish as it is to do something for myself, losing weight is for my benefit & mine only.


Good for you. And for looking out for your health.

Fat people piss me off. I hate subsidizing them through my health insurance costs every two weeks. Just think how much less health care would cost if everybody rode bikes!!!!! We should get discounts. I believe that health insurance costs should be based solely on an annual physical every year. If you are healthy, then you pay less.

Along these lines, African Americans are more suseptable to many types of diseases then other races. Should they have to pay more in insurance because of it? In a strictly numbers sense, then yes, that would be fair, but imagine the uproar.


People that are heavily into sports and other forms of exercise visit the doctor just as frequently than others, but for different reasons. Sports medicine is said to be the fastest growing type of medical practice. Should we be taxed for leading a lifestyle that wears our bodies out sooner? Non-muscular people trying to move/lift heavy objects sustain back injuries. This is opening a very large can of worms. Remember, bicycling is seen as dangerous by many in our society, so they would actually raise our insurance rates, which are not always determined by just cyclists.

Yes, obese people cause insurance rates to go up. So do smokers, fast drivers, and older people. Most employers that offer health insurance to employees group everybody together and all pay the same rate regardless of age or weight. This makes insurance affordable for the entire group even though the 55 to 60 year olds may need heart bypass oeprations at a much higher rate than the 20 year olds. I am unaware of any current trend toward increasing premium costs for obese employees, but given the alarming rate of obesity in the US, I would not be surpriseed to see some experimentation with the idea.

I can only imagine the annual company weigh-in. I wonder if it would be done right after the Christmas/New Years binge-fest?

Not just a weigh-in, but tracking the statistics of what people end up using the medical plan for. How many people at the local gym get injured while working out or participating in sports? How many runners are now cyclists because their knees can't take it any more? If we only charge overweight people, that would be discrimination. Checking the stats might reveal that people engaged in sports use up more medical money than the sedentary people, but for other reasons.

"why should MY tax dollars go to pay for health care for all those smokers?"
"why should MY tax dollars go to pay for education for kids when I don't have any?"
"why should MY tax dollars go to pay for health care for all those fat people?"
"why should MY tax dollars go to pay for public transportation when I don't use it?"

"why should MY tax dollars go to pay for anything that I don't use?"
"ME ME ME ME ME!"

You obviously have no understanding of the purpose of taxes.

As long as you think people should be going to gyms to be fit, you're exacerbating the problem. Any society where people need to pay extra money and take extra time out of their life and take special effort just to be fit is a society that does not have a naturally healthy lifestyle. So why propose some kind of warped tax solution that punishes people who don't go to gyms?

We're living in a society, people. The "us and them" mentality just helps to further the concept that you're a better and more deserving person than others.

Get off your high horses.


How dare you inject rational thought into this thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[QUOTE=Moistfly]No, they have just as much right to their money as anyone else.


I think we are now at the stage with obesity that we were with cigarettes in the 60's or something. I am a smoker and I know this is indefensible. If someone reacts badly to my smoking, that it their right because I'm stinking up the place and killing myself for no reason whatsoever:- I am a drug addict.
The thing that annoys me about people over a certan level of overweight is the assumption that this is a lifestyle choice or that there is nothing wrong with being obese. No! No! No! It's NOT a lifestyle choice. It's a symptom of being maladjusted and emotionally unhealthy, in all but a very few cases. We have to see obesity as unacceptable.
:fight:

I have never been fat because I take measure to prevent it.......

and yes, I do live in a vacuum. I need to change the bag though, it's dusty in here.