Commuting - Civia Bryant

I saw this on EcoVelo. A new model from Civia that we should see more of at Interbike this fall.

Drop bars, internal geared hub, disc brakes, and belt drive. Looks like someone has been listening to the hardcore bike forum commuters. :)

http://www.ecovelo.info/2009/08/07/first-look-civia-bryant/

http://www.ecovelo.info/images/civia-bryant-pre-485.jpg

It finally exists!

It finally exists!

And it's named after me! Huzzah!

Can't wait to buy a used one in 4 years when they're $600 :)

They also made a drop version of the Hyland, but didn't include the dynamo hub or lights with it (wtf?)

No belt upper run belt guard I note, at least on the pictured prototype. Belts get wet and dirty too so can get pants or legs dirty. I still cannot understand why ALL IGH commmuter and city bikes are not manufactured with this IMO needed item. These are supposed to be practical bikes and "cool" should not apply.

Hello
Just letting folks know that the Civia Bryant will have a belt guard that comes with this bike.
Nothing is pictured here but they will be ready for our first production round.
Thanks

PJ Ramstack
Civia Cycles
Sales and CS Manager
pj@civiacycles.com

Sweet! Can't wait to see some more pictures of it.

Hello
Just letting folks know that the Civia Bryant will have a belt guard that comes with this bike.
Nothing is pictured here but they will be ready for our first production round.
Thanks

PJ Ramstack
Civia Cycles
Sales and CS Manager
pj@civiacycles.com

I can't say I recall ever seeing a bike with drop bars and a chain/belt guard too.

Can you tell us whether the fame is going to be steel?

Hello
Just letting folks know that the Civia Bryant will have a belt guard that comes with this bike.
Nothing is pictured here but they will be ready for our first production round.
Thanks

PJ Ramstack
Civia Cycles
Sales and CS Manager
pj@civiacycles.com

PJ;

Glad to hear it. I am still happy with my Hyland Rohloff which I have emailed you in the past concerning. Are you going to be offering a drop bar update kit for the Hyland?

Rich Wood
astronut1001

Very nice. Must get a job at a shop that sells Civia, or at least uses QBP I guess...

I don't want to weigh in on whether a belt is a good idea or not but I wish they'd make a full chaincase for their bikes with chains, like the Breezer bikes have. I can understand making it an optional accessory as some people might not like the look, but the IGH makes a full chaincase possible and it would certainly keep the chain a lot cleaner in the winter.

People keep asking for steel, and if they made a steel frame and people buy it that's great. But for a winter bike, I know I personally would not have considered buying a steel frame - a frame that's constantly doushed in salt and sand that can also rust would be one point of maintenance I would not have wanted to deal with.

I also hope they listen to what people want and give it enough tire clearance to put decent size tires + fenders on there.

Does anyone know if you will be able to retrofit a belt onto an Alfine hub and crankset?

Does anyone know if you will be able to retrofit a belt onto an Alfine hub and crankset?

You can't break a belt so you have to break the frame. So, you need a special frame to mount the belt.

Looks prety nice to me. I still plan on building a custom commuter/tourer similar to the Silkroad but with a belt drive compatible rear triangle.

Will there be a dynohub option?

Yeah, saw that the other day. Gotta assume it's using the Versa shifters and road disc brakes (unless shimano has finally released a shifter). hella cool set up. can't wait to see the full report from interbike (there's a LOT of cool stuff coming out this year)

This is the closest I've seen to my dream bike. I hope dreams really do come true. I wonder what IGH it'll be sporting.

Hello again, I will do my best to answer the questions I have seen here.
-Hubcap: The bike will be steel.
-Rich: Good to hear that you are still liking the Hyland. I don't know if we plan an kit to change Hyland bikes to drop-bar but we can help you do so. To be clear there will not be an STI style shift option. You would have to go with the twist shifter as a bar-end attachment. If your interested let me know and I can get you going through your IBD.
-RedWhiteandRed: You can retro fit your existing Alfine and Crank to use a belt drive, as mentioned you will need to have a frame that can be split or split your frame. We will sell Bryant frames!
-BarracksSi: Not 100% sure on spec yet in terms of a dyno-hub. Most likely not, we will allow folks to add it if they want aftermarket. We continue to receive feedback that we need to keep our prices down. This is one way to do that since there is a good portion of users that don't want this.

Thanks again and if you have other questions please feel free to email me.
PJ Ramstack
Civia Cycles
pj@civiacycles.com

-BarracksSi: Not 100% sure on spec yet in terms of a dyno-hub. Most likely not, we will allow folks to add it if they want aftermarket. We continue to receive feedback that we need to keep our prices down. This is one way to do that since there is a good portion of users that don't want this.

I guess I see things through a dynohub-tinged mist since I'm so smitten with the one I've got.. ;)

I know what I'd put on that bike anyway; I could probably save a bundle by buying it overseas, too. Hubs and lights still cost too much here in the US.

Thanks again and if you have other questions please feel free to email me.
PJ Ramstack
Civia Cycles
pj@civiacycles.com


Are there going to be stock options for different gearing? I.e., will Civia, or even Gates, offer different front and rear cogs?

Aside: chain guards on belt drive bikes are silly. How do you sell the cleanliness of the belt drive if you're covering it up with a belt guard? Most chain drive bikes don't have them, belt makes them especially moot.

Aside: chain guards on belt drive bikes are silly. How do you sell the cleanliness of the belt drive if you're covering it up with a belt guard? Most chain drive bikes don't have them, belt makes them especially moot.

So if you were going to get on a bike in a nice suit and ride three blocks to the deli... would you prefer that there be a belt guard to keep the belt from eating your $500 pants or would you just risk it?

I know... you don't ride in a suit, or you wouldn't be making this comment. I'm just asking you to try to pretend for a second. I don't ride in long pants either, just saying. [edit] don't know what I was thinking... I ride my bike to the store or to grab lunch fairly regularly from work. I certainly don't have $500 pants, but the chainguard on my "errand bike" keeps them safe.

Are there going to be stock options for different gearing? I.e., will Civia, or even Gates, offer different front and rear cogs?

Aside: chain guards on belt drive bikes are silly. How do you sell the cleanliness of the belt drive if you're covering it up with a belt guard? Most chain drive bikes don't have them, belt makes them especially moot.

I have always thought that the bigger selling point of a belt drive was the lack of maintenance, not that it was always cleaner than a chain. Granted, the belt shouldn't get the lube/road grime smegma build up that is prevalent on chains, but it is going to be far from clean enough that I would want to brush against it in khakis.

So if you were going to get on a bike in a nice suit and ride three blocks to the deli... would you prefer that there be a belt guard to keep the belt from eating your $500 pants or would you just risk it?


OK, I'd grant you something like that on a bike like the District, made for running around town and whatnot, but on a drop-bar longer-distance commuter bike?!? In either case, a simple outboard chainring style guard would work better, look cleaner, and not be even somewhat superfluous. People who worry about dirt from a belt drive probably shouldn't be wearing such clothes outdoors anyway... or those marketing the belt drive need to stop with the "cleaner than a chain--no more greasy pants!" schtick.

So if you were going to get on a bike in a nice suit and ride three blocks to the deli... would you prefer that there be a belt guard to keep the belt from eating your $500 pants or would you just risk it?

I know... you don't ride in a suit, or you wouldn't be making this comment. I'm just asking you to try to pretend for a second. I don't ride in long pants either, just saying. [edit] don't know what I was thinking... I ride my bike to the store or to grab lunch fairly regularly from work. I certainly don't have $500 pants, but the chainguard on my "errand bike" keeps them safe.

I keep my pant legs safe by tucking them into my sock (well, at least the drive side leg). Works fine, and the sock takes the chain grime, whereas a pant strap or clip leaves the pant material exposed.

BUT... when I get to work and pull the pant leg out, it's all rumpled up, and if I'm sweaty, it looks pretty bad. It would be nicer to have a chain guard.

Is a sprocket guard enough to keep a pant leg from getting caught in the belt?

OK, I'd grant you something like that on a bike like the District, made for running around town and whatnot, but on a drop-bar longer-distance commuter bike?!? In either case, a simple outboard chainring style guard would work better, look cleaner, and not be even somewhat superfluous. People who worry about dirt from a belt drive probably shouldn't be wearing such clothes outdoors anyway... or those marketing the belt drive need to stop with the "cleaner than a chain--no more greasy pants!" schtick.

If it wasn't for your "Oh. My. God. I cannot believe she just SAID that!" tone, I'd say you might have a point that a chainring style guard would be preferable. I do think you need some sort of guard to make sure you keep your pantleg out of the sprockets, but since you don't have to worry about putting your leg to far back and getting grease on it from the chain I suppose I can't really think of any advantage of a chainguard over a chainring guard. Sometimes a chain guard keeps stuff (dirt, snow) from getting thrown onto the chain, but between the fenders and the fact that stuff that lands on top of the belt doesn't go through like it would on a chain but rather it would likely just fall off as the belt goes around, I suppose I can't think of any advantage. Hmm, maybe it would help keep snow from getting into the cogs (or whatever they're called) on the belt, but it seems like it wouldn't make much of a difference. Hmm.

I disagree with your "probably shouldn't be wearing such clothes outside anyways" thing - I know I'd prefer a bike I can just hop on in whatever I'm wearing and simply not even have to think about it. In fact, I just bought a bike and went waaaaaaaaay out of my way to get a chainring guard as it didn't come with one (let me tell you - it's a PITA to find a chainring guard for a 50 tooth chain).

In regards to "cleaner than a chain", while it's a little bit marketing hyperbole I think it's still true -
1. If I put my bike in my car, I don't get chain grease on stuff (there's chain grease on the backs of my seats for example as I have to wedge my bike in between the front seats and the back seats).
2. I don't get anything oily when I oil the chain - don't have to take it outside or to the garage. (Unrelatedly you don't have to oil a belt at all)
3. No matter where my bike ends up, I just don't have to worry about getting chain oil on anything that might fall against it, press against it, etc.

Now my personal opinion is that I'm going to take a "wait and see" attitude about whether using belts on a bike rather than a chain works out. It's new, and I'd rather not be the first in the pool, so to speak (tried it once with a bike already, could have worked better). But I do think it's an intriguing idea - in theory far better than a shaft drive (no efficiency losses (well we'll see), no grease to add, no (or negligible) extra weight, and a simple enough change that your local bike shop mechanic isn't going to look at it and say "we don't even know how to work on these").

I'm just playing devil's advocate. I agree that most people wouldn't care, and would probably remove it.

That said, I chose to leave the chainguard on my casseroll even though I will likely never ride that bike with long pants.

It's just much easier for Civia to design one than for people to try to fit something after the fact. Haven't they already said there will be one? So the whole debate's moot.

Is a sprocket guard enough to keep a pant leg from getting caught in the belt?

Yes. I've never had an issue with long pants on the bikes I have with them.

It's just much easier for Civia to design one than for people to try to fit something after the fact. Haven't they already said there will be one? So the whole debate's moot.

And is a marginal cost adder for a nicely fit one from the market (it's just a mass produced piece of bent metal with some screws). Cost's more to add one after market... finding a nice one to add after market is worse.

Yes. I've never had an issue with long pants on the bikes I have with them.

Alright, cool; it's been years since I've had a bike with a chainring guard.

Hello again, I will do my best to answer the questions I have seen here.
-Hubcap: The bike will be steel.
-Rich: Good to hear that you are still liking the Hyland. I don't know if we plan an kit to change Hyland bikes to drop-bar but we can help you do so. To be clear there will not be an STI style shift option. You would have to go with the twist shifter as a bar-end attachment. If your interested let me know and I can get you going through your IBD.
-RedWhiteandRed: You can retro fit your existing Alfine and Crank to use a belt drive, as mentioned you will need to have a frame that can be split or split your frame. We will sell Bryant frames!
-BarracksSi: Not 100% sure on spec yet in terms of a dyno-hub. Most likely not, we will allow folks to add it if they want aftermarket. We continue to receive feedback that we need to keep our prices down. This is one way to do that since there is a good portion of users that don't want this.

Thanks again and if you have other questions please feel free to email me.
PJ Ramstack
Civia Cycles
pj@civiacycles.com

I'm curious - do you mean there won't be an STI style shift option just if you convert, or there won't be one even on the production Versa?

I just ran across the Versa VRS-8, which are STI style shifters for an Alfine or Nexus hub -
http://www.thebikebiz.com/Versa_VRS_8_Shift_Brake_Levers_p/tour-acc-ver01.htm

At $250 retail price they aren't cheap (same price as ordering Tiagra shifters at full retail, as I just found out).

Hello
Just letting folks know that the Civia Bryant will have a belt guard that comes with this bike.
Nothing is pictured here but they will be ready for our first production round.
Thanks

PJ Ramstack
Civia Cycles
Sales and CS Manager
pj@civiacycles.com

You don't need anyone to field test this new bike do you ?

:)

Add a Schlumpf drive and you have my dream bike.

I'm curious - do you mean there won't be an STI style shift option just if you convert, or there won't be one even on the production Versa?

I just ran across the Versa VRS-8, which are STI style shifters for an Alfine or Nexus hub -
http://www.thebikebiz.com/Versa_VRS_8_Shift_Brake_Levers_p/tour-acc-ver01.htm

At $250 retail price they aren't cheap (same price as ordering Tiagra shifters at full retail, as I just found out).

I was wondering the same thing since his reply was a little ambiguous, but I didn't want to keep peppering him with questions about a model they will be debuting soon.

I can't say I recall ever seeing a bike with drop bars and a chain/belt guard too.

Never seen a new SS bike in a shop that actually met CPSC requirements (http://www.cpsc.gov/BUSINFO/regsumbicycles.pdf), eh? My Cannondale Capo came with a chain guard.

tcs

Never seen a new SS bike in a shop that actually met CPSC requirements (http://www.cpsc.gov/BUSINFO/regsumbicycles.pdf), eh? My Cannondale Capo came with a chain guard.

tcs

None that I have seen with drop bars. I didn't look completely through your link, but I saw the following which I assume you are referring to:

Bicycles with a single front and a single rear
sprocket must have a chain guard over the top of
the chain and least 90% of the part of the front
sprocket that the chain contacts. It must also
extend back to within at least 3.2 inches of the
center of the bicycle’s rear axle. The top of the
guard from the front sprocket back to the rear
wheel rim must be at least twice as wide as the
chain. Past that point, the top of the guard may
taper down until it is ½ inch of the chain width.
The guard must prevent a 3 inch long, ⅜ inch
diameter rod from catching between the upper
junction of the sprocket and the chain when a
tester tries to insert the rod at any direction up to
a 45 degree angle from the side of the bicycle
that the chain is on.

There are definitely plenty of bikes out there being sold that do not meet this requirement.

I'm curious - do you mean there won't be an STI style shift option just if you convert, or there won't be one even on the production Versa?

I just ran across the Versa VRS-8, which are STI style shifters for an Alfine or Nexus hub -
http://www.thebikebiz.com/Versa_VRS_8_Shift_Brake_Levers_p/tour-acc-ver01.htm

At $250 retail price they aren't cheap (same price as ordering Tiagra shifters at full retail, as I just found out).

My Civia Hyland is the Rohloff hub model and there is no optional shifter available for it. The problem is twofold. The Rohloff hub uses a dual cable pull-pull cable arrangement for the shifter and the cable pull for full range shifting is almost 4" of cable travel.

There is one european source for a two piece drop bar setup that allows the Rohloff twist shifter to be mounted on the bar top flat area. This is the best arrangement I have seen for doing a drop bar bike with the Rohloff hub.

That's a nice lookin' bike.

The Bryant will come with an STI style shift lever.
What I am saying is that there is no option either production or aftermarket to use a Rohloff hub and an STI style shift lever.
Let me know if I am missing the question you are asking.
Thanks
PJ

Would it be possible to install a Rohloff on the Bryant? One could go with that aftermarket two-piece drop bar solution tatfiend mentioned. I wonder if you could still use belt drive with a Rohloff or if you'd have to convert to chain?

You can run a Rohloff on the Bryant. I know that there are cogs out there that folks are using to run a belt on a Rohloff; however I have not heard that Rohloff has given their thumbs up to it yet. I will check with our guy at Rohloff and see what he has to say.
PJ

You can run a Rohloff on the Bryant. I know that there are cogs out there that folks are using to run a belt on a Rohloff; however I have not heard that Rohloff has given their thumbs up to it yet. I will check with our guy at Rohloff and see what he has to say.
PJ

As long as you use a gear ratio within the range suggested for the Rohloff, what would it matter? The Rohloff wouldn't know its being driven by a belt instead of a chain.

Nice bike.

I like what Civia is doing.

I predict a huge success.

Will the frame be available with Rohloff dropouts or will you have to use one of those torque arms?

Hello
-The belt doesn't attach to the same type of cog as the chain does so a belt cog has to be developed. Rohloff at this point will not endorse the cog and there for manufactures are reluctant to develop one. There are some out there that have been produced as one offs but nothing beyond that. It isn't a matter of it working but more Rohloff giving their blessing.
-We will have more specific info about the dropouts and how they will work with each hub in a few weeks.
Keep an eye out for another teaser coming to the blogs in the next week!
Thanks for all of the support and attention you have given us.
PJ
PJ