Long Distance Competition/Ultracycling, Randonneuring and Endurance Cycling - Yay, I can pee! (Hydration Question)

Sorry, don't mean to offend . . .

Lately while riding distance I haven't needed to pee during the rides (sometimes approaching 9 hours).

Yesterday, I went for a brisk half century in 95+ heat index temps and a strong 20mph wind. I was extra careful about my fluids/food, and this is what I had:

72oz of water (24x3), 48oz of Gatorade (24x2).

It took about 4 hours in total (3 hours 9 minutes saddle time) and I actually had to stop at two different places to pee.

So my question is this: If you don't have to pee on a long ride, are you not getting enough hydration? And, does the necessity or lack thereof to urinate even factor into to the hydration scheme of things?

The reason I'm asking is that I felt surprisingly good during and after this ride, considering the high temps and difficult wind.

Generally if you're not urinating much, you're not drinking enough.

Also if your urine is a darker color than normal you are not hydrating enough.

And trust me on this ... it is important to keep hydrated on a ride. Chronic dehydration on long distance rides may have been one of the factors which lead to the development of a very large and extremely painful kidney stone in my left kidney ... which I had to have surgically removed this past spring.

Pee early and often. When I'm not urinating often enough and/or it's dark in color, it confirms that I'm getting dehydrated. Of course I already know that because I monitor my fluid intake and know when I'm falling behind.

It doesn't take much dehydration to have a large impact on performance.

Make sure to start drinking right away in your ride also, for me it can be easy to forget to drink anything the first hour. You want to stay hydrated right from the start.

If you don't have to pee on a long ride, are you not getting enough hydration? And, does the necessity or lack thereof to urinate even factor into to the hydration scheme of things?[/b]
If you are urinating and it is running without a lot of color, then it's a fair indication that you are getting enough fluid.


Yesterday, I went for a brisk half century
It's not a "half century". It's a 50-mile ride! (And prosaic.)

It's rare that I need to pee on a century ride in the five to six hour range. It's also rare that I dehydrate. I carry two 24oz bottles mixed up with some type of sports drink and I budget two hours on the two bottles. Sometimes I go beyond the two hours before refilling so in those instances I'll be a little dry but it doesn't concern me. If I finish up the ride a quart low, it's easy enough to remedy. On longer rides I'm more religious about the bottle an hour thing.

I don't agree with the peeing until it runs clear BS. If you are peeing clear on a ride, you are probably heading for unpleasantness.

~kn

http://nuclearfamily.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/urine-chart.jpg

Pretty much a good guideline. Although if you are pissing clear or close to clear (#1) during strenuous excercise, you might want to think about cutting back on the water for a bit.

Gawd - what a bunch of crap!

I don't know how often anyone should pee. But I do know the answers in this thread are mostly piss.

Here's the common sense "deal." Off hand, you should pee about as often while riding a bike as you do when you are off a bike. But, I wouldn't be surprised to go a little longer without peeing if you are riding a little harder, and interested in getting where you are going.

Much of how much you need to "pee" is determined by genetics, but in any case I doubt going nine hours is a good idea. My own "max time" seems to be around six hours.......

Gawd - what a bunch of crap!

I don't know how often anyone should pee. But I do know the answers in this thread are mostly piss.

Here's the common sense "deal." Off hand, you should pee about as often while riding a bike as you do when you are off a bike. But, I wouldn't be surprised to go a little longer without peeing if you are riding a little harder, and interested in getting where you are going.


This is wrong in so many ways!

If you are urinating and it's running light yellow, it's likely that you are sufficiently hydrated. If you are not urinating, there really is not a simple way to tell if you are dehydrated or not. (While not urinating does not "prove" you are dehydrated, outputing light colored urine is a good indication that you are likely not becoming dehydrated!)


One simple/easy/reliable way of making sure that your hydration is reasonable early on is to drink enough to produce light-colored urine at a "reasonable rate".

Maintaining good hydration is more important for long events like centuries. (One can probably get away with being a bit dehydrated at the end of shorter events.)


Much of how much you need to "pee" is determined by genetics, but in any case I doubt going nine hours is a good idea. My own "max time" seems to be around six hours.......
A great deal of how much you need to urinate relates to how much you are drinking and what you are drinking and how much you are sweating/exercising.

======================================

http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/dehydration-adults


Decreased urine output: Urine color may indicate dehydration. If urine is concentrated and deeply yellow or amber, you may be dehydrated.

http://mayoclinic.com/health/dehydration/DS00561/DSECTION=prevention


Producing lots of clear, dilute urine is a good indication that you're well hydrated.

http://www.kremchek.com/preventing%20dehydration.pdf



The simplest way to check if you are adequately hydrated is to check the color and quantity of your urine. If your urine is pale yellow, like the color of lemonade, and
you urinate often, your body has returned to its normal water balance after exercise and you are well hydrated. If it is a dark color, more like iced tea, and you urinate very infrequently and only small amounts, your urine is full of metabolic wastes and you need to drink more fluids.

Maintaining good hydration is more important for long events like centuries.Right, and if you are so ignorant of Century riding that you use urine color and frequency to guage your hydration status you're a rank amateur.

But I can see that newbies can't be expected to actually think about a subject before they post.

OK - all "newbie" riders - go ahead and drink until you pee, the veteran riders will ride on down the road without you. The veteran riders learned years ago, - that maintaining hydration - not over-hydration is the key to better long-distance performance.

Kayaker - you're all wet.....

Right, and if you are so ignorant of Century riding that you use urine color and frequency to guage your hydration status you're a rank amateur.
It seems reasonable to assume that the original poster is a "rank amatuer"!


The veteran riders learned years ago, - that maintaining hydration - not over-hydration is the key to better long-distance performance.
Obviously, the original poster is not a "veteran" long distance rider (since he's talking about a 50 mile ride not a century).

No one is suggesting "over hydration".

=============

Note: if you are a veteran long distance rider, feel free to do whatever works for you!

On the other hand . . .
I'm friends with a local LD racer. He says if he has to pee on a 12 hour ride, he's not going as hard as he could. Time spent peeing is time lost. He has set course records, so I guess he knows.

On the other hand . . .
I'm no racer and I like to pee every 2-3 hours on or off the bike. What a wussy, but then I know I'm drinking enough. Helps me to track it. Probably unnecessary, but if I don't go for 6 hours, I start to worry, and then I start to drink more, and then . . . OK, so I'm a wussy and a worry-wort.

On the other hand . . .
I'm no racer and I like to pee every 2-3 hours on or off the bike. What a wussy, but then I know I'm drinking enough. Helps me to track it. Probably unnecessary, but if I don't go for 6 hours, I start to worry, and then I start to drink more, and then . . . OK, so I'm a wussy and a worry-wort.

Wise man... your body is made to operate this way. Don't intentionally override the system! :thumb:

Sorry, don't mean to offend . . .

Lately while riding distance I haven't needed to pee during the rides (sometimes approaching 9 hours).

Yesterday, I went for a brisk half century in 95+ heat index temps and a strong 20mph wind. I was extra careful about my fluids/food, and this is what I had:

72oz of water (24x3), 48oz of Gatorade (24x2).

It took about 4 hours in total (3 hours 9 minutes saddle time) and I actually had to stop at two different places to pee.

So my question is this: If you don't have to pee on a long ride, are you not getting enough hydration? And, does the necessity or lack thereof to urinate even factor into to the hydration scheme of things?

The reason I'm asking is that I felt surprisingly good during and after this ride, considering the high temps and difficult wind.

If you don't have to pee, it could be that you are dehydrated, or it could be that you are hyponatremic (lacking salt). Or, it could be both.

Wow, lot's of differing opinions. But in reality it's easier than all of this. Your body can only effectively process 24(ish) ounces of liquid an hour during exercise. So stay in that range and you will be fine, a little higher (maybe 28-30) for hot or humid climes.

If you're peeing with that much fluid intake, great. If not, that's fine too. Upping your fluid intake can't FORCE your body to process more than that. If you're going hard, you may not pee. Big deal.

Bottom line: Use the pee color thing to monitor hydration off the bike. Use hard numbers for fluid intake while on the bike. OP, your numbers of 120 oz for 4 hours are completely reasonable for the temp you list.

Steve

Wow, lot's of differing opinions. But in reality it's easier than all of this. Your body can only effectively process 24(ish) ounces of liquid an hour during exercise. So stay in that range and you will be fine, a little higher (maybe 28-30) for hot or humid climes.This kind of thing is just another thoughtless - misleading post.

First of all - there is no "one size" answer for all different sizes and weight of people. Are you suggesting a 98 pound women drink as much as someone weighing 220?

These threads are just so goofy - think about it.

A starting place for "good advice" - that works for everyone - "try to replace what fluid you think you have lost." If you are so worried that your own "sense of thirst" is inaccurate then drink a little more often. If you're only goal in riding a bicycle is to remain well hydrated - then drink until pee every hour or two.

But please- stop the stupid talk about measuring urine color and "body process" crap - you are just plain ignorant of biology as well exercise nutrition.

If you are truly interested - then read the position papers from the ACSM......since you have "pay for it" - I printed out the abstract. But hey this is the "actual" science - not the nutty stuff posted here.

Abstract:

SUMMARY: It is the position of the American College of Sports Medicine that adequate fluid replacement helps maintain hydration and, therefore, promotes the health, safety, and optimal physical performance of individuals participating in regular physical activity. This position statement is based on a comprehensive review and interpretation of scientific literature concerning the influence of fluid replacement on exercise performance and the risk of thermal injury associated with dehydration and hyperthermia. Based on available evidence, the American College of Sports Medicine makes the following general recommendations on the amount and composition of fluid that should be ingested in preparation for, during, and after exercise or athletic competition:

1. It is recommended that individuals consume a nutritionally balanced diet and drink adequate fluids during the 24-h period before an event, especially during the period that includes the meal prior to exercise, to promote proper hydration before exercise or competition.

2. It is recommended that individuals drink about 500 ml (about 17 ounces) of fluid about 2 h before exercise to promote adequate hydration and allow time for excretion of excess ingested water.

3. During exercise, athletes should start drinking early and at regular intervals in an attempt to consume fluids at a rate sufficient to replace all the water lost through sweating (i.e., body weight loss), or consume the maximal amount that can be tolerated.

4. It is recommended that ingested fluids be cooler than ambient temperature[between 15[degrees] and 22[degrees]C (59[degrees] and 72[degrees]F)] and flavored to enhance palatability and promote fluid replacement. Fluids should be readily available and served in containers that allow adequate volumes to be ingested with ease and with minimal interruption of exercise.

5. Addition of proper amounts of carbohydrates and/or electrolytes to a fluid replacement solution is recommended for exercise events of duration greater than 1 h since it does not significantly impair water delivery to the body and may enhance performance. During exercise lasting less than 1 h, there is little evidence of physiological or physical performance differences between consuming a carbohydrate-electrolyte drink and plain water.

6. During intense exercise lasting longer than 1 h, it is recommended that carbohydrates be ingested at a rate of 30-60 g [middle dot] h-1 to maintain oxidation of carbohydrates and delay fatigue. This rate of carbohydrate intake can be achieved without compromising fluid delivery by drinking 600-1200 ml[middle dot] h-1 of solutions containing 4%-8% carbohydrates (g [middle dot] 100 ml-1). The carbohydrates can be sugars (glucose or sucrose) or starch (e.g., maltodextrin).

7. Inclusion of sodium (0.5-0.7 g [middle dot] 1-1 of water) in the rehydration solution ingested during exercise lasting longer than 1 h is recommended since it may be advantageous in enhancing palatability, promoting fluid retention, and possibly preventing hyponatremia in certain individuals who drink excessive quantities of fluid. There is little physiological basis for the presence of sodium in an oral rehydration solution for enhancing intestinal water absorption as long as sodium is sufficiently available from the previous meal.

Replace what you've lost? Are you kidding? This is the same antequated crap that high school football coaches were telling their players 30 years ago. You're welcome to go by that if you like. You're also welcome to continue to attack opinions that aren't in line with your own.

Interesting that in your quote, you show exactly what you say doesn't work: hard numbers. Nicely done, you've contradicted yourself without anyone's help. Oh, and the range of 600-1200ml that they recommend for over an hour? That's 20 to 40 ounces, pretty close to the 24-30 that I mentioned. But you keep on replacing what you've lost.

Your body can only effectively process 24(ish) ounces of liquid an hour during exercise.
It would be interesting to see a reference for this.


Replace what you've lost?
Heck, at least he provided a reference instead of just bloviating! (I do think it's a good/interesting reference.)

It looks like long distance runners are suggested to measure what they've lost by sweating. This might be optimal but it doesn't seem easy to do!

The key recommendation he quoted isn't exactly clear/simple advice to follow. It's also quite open ended!


3. During exercise, athletes should start drinking early and at regular intervals in an attempt to consume fluids at a rate sufficient to replace all the water lost through sweating (i.e., body weight loss), or consume the maximal amount that can be tolerated.


========================


you are just plain ignorant of biology as well exercise nutrition.
You mean all of the following are wrong? (Note that they don't contradict the ACSM stuff.)


http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/dehydration-adults

Decreased urine output: Urine color may indicate dehydration. If urine is concentrated and deeply yellow or amber, you may be dehydrated.
http://mayoclinic.com/health/dehydration/DS00561/DSECTION=prevention

Producing lots of clear, dilute urine is a good indication that you're well hydrated.
http://www.kremchek.com/preventing%20dehydration.pdf


The simplest way to check if you are adequately hydrated is to check the color and quantity of your urine. If your urine is pale yellow, like the color of lemonade, and
you urinate often, your body has returned to its normal water balance after exercise and you are well hydrated. If it is a dark color, more like iced tea, and you urinate very infrequently and only small amounts, your urine is full of metabolic wastes and you need to drink more fluids.

It would be interesting to see a reference for this.
The Hammer Fueling Guide (http://www.hammernutrition.com/downloads/fuelinghandbook.pdf?utm_source=fuelingbook&utm_medium=link&utm_campaign=fuelingbook) on page 13 gives some recommendations as well as the references that they used to come up with them.

Ultracycling.com also has some good info which agree with the same.

The Hammer Fueling Guide (http://www.hammernutrition.com/downloads/fuelinghandbook.pdf?utm_source=fuelingbook&utm_medium=link&utm_campaign=fuelingbook)on page 13 gives some recommendations as well as the references that they used to come up with them.

Ultracycling.com also has some good info which agree with the same.

The first reference appears to prefer measuring your weight to determine if you aren't hydrating preference.

Yet, on page 28, they say:


Urine color can indicate hydration level. Dark yellow urine means low hydration. Pale to light yellow is good. Don’t confuse the bright yellow urine you get after vitamin B-2 (riboflavin) supplementation for the dark yellow urine that indicates overly concentrated urine.

The second reference appears to talk about hyponatremia and not much about dehydration.

=================


Generally if you're not urinating much, you're not drinking enough.
Nothing appears to indicate that the quantity is an issue.

Nothing appears to indicate that the quantity is an issue.

Other than common sense. The more you drink, the more you urinate. All of that water you drink doesn't just disappear, and sweat doesn't usually account for the majority of liquid evacuation.

Other than common sense. The more you drink, the more you urinate. All of that water you drink doesn't just disappear, and sweat doesn't usually account for the majority of liquid evacuation.
This is true but the it looks like the first indication is color not quantity. That is, producing a little is enough as long as the output is low color.

A fair number of sites indicate that you can over hydrate leading to other problems. Is urinating a lot an indication of over hydration (beyond being inconvenient)?

You really only need to urinate enough.

"Common sense" also would indicate that drinking when thirsty would be enough but it appears that that isn't correct.

Other than common sense. The more you drink, the more you urinate. All of that water you drink doesn't just disappear, and sweat doesn't usually account for the majority of liquid evacuation.

The highest reported sweat rate is 3.7 litres/hour for Alberto Salazar during the 1984 Olympic marathon. Sweat rates of 2 to 3 litres/hour can be expected during short periods of hard exercise in the heat, and an excess of 1.5-2 litres/hour during endurance events.
http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0824.htm

So its not at all unreasonable to sweat more than you drink.

I generally get through 4-6 water bottles on a century and for most of them I don't need a pee stop.

I had a friend tell me that their coach claims "if you have to urinate when you're riding, you're not sweating enough." Not sure if I buy that one. Usually, I'll try to stop every 2-3 hours and just check - even if i don't get 'the urge.'

you cannot absorb enough water to replace what youve lost...

you cannot absorb enough water to replace what youve lost...

You do realize that this would mean that we'd have a lifespan of a few weeks, right?