Advocacy & Safety - recent accident in los angeles county.

well recently i was involved in a collision with a car. my scott cr1 was broken in two and rendered useless. my question is what are the steps of dealing with it. the driver was behaving and even called the paramedics but i was unharmed with the exceptions of a few scratches. all of it changed as soon as chp arrived to the scene and the guy who i suspect was persian started making a big deal of me trying to sue him, when in reality i had been really quiet for the hour that we were waiting for. the officer took my declaration and went on to take his. the guy left pretty infuriated and told me to deal with his insurance. there are some witness that although did not see the accident heard him say it was my fault but also heard him say that he was looking for an adress and that he did not even saw me and i guess that should count to my favor. after i get the print out of the report what step should i take. i only want payment for my bike nad my bike retailed for 5,000. should i contact a lawyer or try to deal with the insurance myself what tips could you give me if i decide to go thru a without a lawyer. there was no physical damage to me and i only want to get compensation for my bike.

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I suggest getting a lawyer.

That is the one thing I regret not doing when I was in an accident.

Sorry about your bike and hope you can get a replacement.

Glad you're OK though.

Did he back into you or did you run into him?

Did he back into you or did you run into him?

Look at the bent-down bars and broken frame. I suspect he rear-ended the car at significant speed, and his bars hit the trunk before the frame broke. (A car backing up at slow speed would mangle the front wheel and fork but probably not do that to the bars.) Could still be the car driver's fault if the car driver cut him off.

who i suspect was persian

Thank you for not calling him an Arab.


Did the officer cite the driver?

I'm assuming Roca didn't simply rear end the car, in which case he'd be at fault.

The most likely scenario where you'd hit the rear of a car and it would be the driver's fault is if they sped past you, jumped into your lane, then braked for a turn or driveway.

Happens to me all the time. They don't realize how fast bicycles are and how much they have to slow down to make their turn. If I think someone is going to do it I move to the left of the lane.

p.s. Anyone driving a Prowler with the top down is an idiot - your visibility is ZERO

welll he was in front of me but stopped suddently in a 35mph zonee right on a corner. I was going 20mph and was aware and that's why only thie bike was trashed. and although he says he is not at fault there are witness thhat heard him state that he was not aware of the road.

Thank you for not calling him an Arab.

Did the officer cite the driver?
I am not really sure . after he took his version of the story the guy left pretty infuriated.

welll he was in front of me but stopped suddently in a 35mph zonee right on a corner. I was going 20mph and was aware and that's why only thie bike was trashed. and although he says he is not at fault there are witness thhat heard him state that he was not aware of the road.

That's a tough call. In a rear-end collision, fault is normally assigned to the rear-ending vehicle (yours), unless it is a clear case of "swoop and squat," a popular whiplash insurance fraud gambit. The motorist may argue that one should always leave a long enough following distance to facilitate a safe emergency stop. (I wonder if he always does. :) )

So it seems that I am going to need a lawyer any recomendation. I live in pico rivera in the san gabriel area and I need a free consultation to see if the case is winable.

...the guy who i suspect was persian...

Sorry, but what does his ethnicity have to do with it?

That doesn't look like a "swoop and squat" car to me.He doesn't have to be aware on the road,he didn't hit anybody.There's no law that says you can't slow down for whatever reason.

Pearl paint is almost impossible to match....

Good look on this one.

I think you're going to have a hard time assigning blame to him. You hit him. That indicates to me that you were following too closely or at an unsafe speed or not paying enough attention.

Consider an analogous situation on the freeway: you're behind Mr. Plymouth when suddenly he hits the brakes because someone tossed a sofa off their truck (I'm in the LA area, so I know this can happen). If you rear-end Mr. Plymouth, it's your fault, because you are supposed to leave sufficient stopping distance. In fact, it's lucky that the CHP didn't try to cite you in your crash.

It sucks to be sure, but from what you said and from the pictures, looks to me like you're on the hook for this one.

I think you're going to have a hard time assigning blame to him. You hit him. That indicates to me that you were following too closely or at an unsafe speed or not paying enough attention.
It sucks to be sure, but from what you said and from the pictures, looks to me like you're on the hook for this one.

I have to agree with this. Unless something else happened, sounds like it's your fault. I can also see why the guy would be upset.

Who drives a Prowler?

There are no skid marks in the picture you posted. The car may have been moved before you took the picture so when the car stopped were there skid marks? If not then a judge (if this goes to court) is not going to think that the car stopped suddenly. His insurance is going to be looking for you to pay for the damage to his car. You hit him. He did not hit you.

forget armchair quarterbacks. The simple fact you rear ended a car means nothing in itself.

I hope you got witness phone numbers or hope it's in the police report.
for the bike, you are most likely looking at small claims. You need witnesses to really overcome a deadlock.

consult a lawyer, they will tell you everything in 10 minutes.

There are no skid marks in the picture you posted. The car may have been moved before you took the picture so when the car stopped were there skid marks? If not then a judge (if this goes to court) is not going to think that the car stopped suddenly. His insurance is going to be looking for you to pay for the damage to his car. You hit him. He did not hit you.

It annoys me to no end to see people conclude anything because there "are no skid marks." The lack of skid marks means abolutely nothing. A car with anti-lock brakes that work will not skid no matter how hard you brake.

That said, from the brief facts the OP states, he might be able to get his bike paid for, but no more, with a well-written letter from a lawyer. Rearend collisions are tough to win.

Rearend collisions are tough to win.


This.

well to be honest i do not have visual witnesses as this happen all to quick the person that heard everything was a bussiness owner that rents tuxedos and he was the first one to come out and offer both of us water. it all seem pretty unfavorable to me. it seems by the way that he was driving i could add to the story but i really want to be honest ( "you know do unto others... "). as i mention the only damages i want to have covered are my frame and components. i do not want t cause too many problems to the guy and i am suspecting that if a lawyer gets involved the truth might get a little twisted because i do not think that a no injury accident brings him any money.

Sorry, but what does his ethnicity have to do with it?
nothing really. on the other hand they are really stubborn and argue even when they are wrong. well at least the one that i deal with in my line of work. this is a good point as i am hispanic and this happen in a hispanic area and he might have felt treathen. as soon as the officer got there he gott really loud an almost insulted me but behave politely when the owner of the shop was there. probably the way that he acted was due to his age and how he viewed me. he looked to be in his mid 40's to early 50's and although i am 26 people often mistake me for a minor when i shave.

I think you're going to have a hard time assigning blame to him. You hit him. That indicates to me that you were following too closely or at an unsafe speed or not paying enough attention.

Consider an analogous situation on the freeway: you're behind Mr. Plymouth when suddenly he hits the brakes because someone tossed a sofa off their truck (I'm in the LA area, so I know this can happen). If you rear-end Mr. Plymouth, it's your fault, because you are supposed to leave sufficient stopping distance. In fact, it's lucky that the CHP didn't try to cite you in your crash.

It sucks to be sure, but from what you said and from the pictures, looks to me like you're on the hook for this one.
the problem is there was no sofa. he was driving accelerated and then stop. believe me i have been commuting for almost two years now and my coach taught me that even when looking at the car in front of you always have to be aware of what is infront of him. as i mentioned he was not even looking at the road infront of him because he was looking for and adress when he saw the street stop at the last minute. i did get to deccelerate a bit if not the hit might have been that much worst.

nothing really. on the other hand they are really stubborn and argue even when they are wrong.

The guy you rear ended was saying the same thing about you to his wife.

well again i did not even open my mouth and just stay quiet until the cop arrived and even then he was the first one to make alegations.

Sorry, but I'd be inclined to side with the motorist on this one. Even if he stopped unexpectedly, the traffic behind (i.e. the cyclist) should be leaving sufficient room to come to a safe stop.

Do you have either homeowner's or renter's insurance with liability coverage? That may be useful if the motorist or his insurance company wants to get reimbursement from you for the damage to the car. My guess is that the paint job on it isn't cheap.

Check the insurance requirements for CA and your area. I think they are no-fault and depending on the type of no-fault, his insurance may have to cover his damages. Your damages may also be covered by his policy, but much less likely (many no-fault systems only cover medical for cyclist and pedestrians - automatically). You may need your homeowners or renters insurance to cover your bike.

You will only need a lawyer, if he comes after you for big damages, like whiplash. You only need a new frame and possibly forks. You homeowners insurance should cover that. All the other parts can then be moved over. Emergency steering is much more effective than brakes in avoiding situations like this.

well again i did not even open my mouth and just stay quiet until the cop arrived and even then he was the first one to make alegations.

You certainly did the right thing by keeping quiet. I'm just saying that it's probably going to be pretty tough for you to *demonstrate* that the driver owes you anything. And you'd probably end up paying a lawyer more than a new bike to make that demonstration.

As others have said you are the one who not only hit him, but you rear-ended him. Trying to prove that he behaved in a reckless manner and caused the accident is going to be tough IF not impossible. And if you take it to court his lawyer will claim (probably rightly so) that YOU were the one who was following too close to his client. As evident by the fact that you were not able to stop without hitting him.

If you do take it to court good luck, but don't be surprised if you don't win, or can't find a lawyer willing to take the case.

It annoys me to no end to see people conclude anything because there "are no skid marks." The lack of skid marks means abolutely nothing. A car with anti-lock brakes that work will not skid no matter how hard you brake.

That said, from the brief facts the OP states, he might be able to get his bike paid for, but no more, with a well-written letter from a lawyer. Rearend collisions are tough to win.

Kerlenbach, a car with anti-lock brakes that work will leave skid marks. I conclude that if there are no skid marks that the guy driving the car did not come to a sudden stop like the OP stated. Have you been trained to investigate traffic accidents? Have you actually investigated traffic accidents? I have.

well it is not woth arguing over this. i will take it to court after the insurance refuses to pay as for home or renters insurance i do not have one. if i had one i would not be trying to get his insurance to pay for it. a former cop said to me that rear end collitions are not won by whoever got hit and i illustrated with drawing on a board and said that the case can be won.

You will only need a lawyer, if he comes after you for big damages, like whiplash. You only need a new frame and possibly forks. You homeowners insurance should cover that. All the other parts can then be moved over. Emergency steering is much more effective than brakes in avoiding situations like this.


the problem is that on of the sti's is toast ans the big cahinring is bent. the carbon bars are safety concern as well as the carbon spider. and i find it odd but the front rim is straight but the rea powertap wheel has the rim bent.

i will take it to court after the insurance refuses to pay as for home or renters insurance i do not have one.
I'd be very cautious about pursuing this in court. My understanding is that it's very common for the response to such a lawsuit for damages is that a counter suit is filed. Without any liability insurance you could end up with a sizable bill for damages to his car and court costs if things don't go your way in the trial. And the driver would have the benefit of assistance from his insurance company's legal staff in addition to the usual presumption in a rear-end collision that primary fault is with the vehicle in back. That presumption can be contested with sufficient evidence, but it certainly raises the bar for you to win the case.

i have already looked at it and have gotten estimates from $250-850 because it is only paint damage no bumps or anything. the only damage is the scaped paint mark and nothing else.

Lots of armchair lawyers here so I'll add my 2 cents.

This may suck if you're a driver but hey in this case, you're on a bike, he's in a car. It almost doesn't matter what happened...if a car and bike or car and motorocycle or car and pedestrian or car and little toddler on a big wheel get into an accident, guess who's gonna pay? hint: it's not gonna be the little toddler riding his big wheel.

Your bike is obviously damaged because of a car. It sucks to be a driver sometimes but I am pretty sure that the driver (or his insurance) are gonna have to pay for your bike.

This is why you sometimes hear of pedestrians in poor areas suddenly running onto the street to get hit by an expensive car...pedestrian is gonna get paid.

RVD.

well it is not worth arguing over this. i will take it to court after the insurance refuses to pay as for home or renters insurance i do not have one. if i had one i would not be trying to get his insurance to pay for it. a former cop said to me that rear end collisions are not won by whoever got hit and i illustrated with drawing on a board and said that the case can be won.

Hmm, you caused the accident by not allowing enough distance between you and the vehicle in front of you, it made a "sudden" stop when the driver found the address that he was looking for and you struck him from the rear. With sufficient speed/force to cause considerable damage to your bicycle. You have neither home owner's or renter's insurance and feel that the driver owes you a new bicycle. I presume that you do know that the every operator of a vehicle on a public street has a legal obligation to avoid an accident. Something that the drivers lawyer could and probably would argue that you failed to do.

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welll he was in front of me but stopped suddently in a 35mph zonee right on a corner. I was going 20mph and was aware and that's why only thie bike was trashed. and although he says he is not at fault there are witness thhat heard him state that he was not aware of the road.
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If you had been "aware" you would not have struck his vehicle from behind. The accident is your fault and you are the one who is responsible for the damages, not the driver. IF you haven't heard from the driver's insurance by now I would strongly suggest that you do NOT push the issue. Because as it has been stated YOU will be on the hook for repair/repainting of his car, his medical bills, AND his legal fees when you loose.

When/if his lawyer finds this thread, this will come back to bite you:

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the problem is there was no sofa. he was driving accelerated and then stop. believe me i have been commuting for almost two years now and my coach taught me that even when looking at the car in front of you always have to be aware of what is infront of him. as i mentioned he was not even looking at the road infront of him because he was looking for and adress when he saw the street stop at the last minute. i did get to deccelerate a bit if not the hit might have been that much worst.
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You admit that you were able to see what the driver was doing at or before the time of the accident. And I am sure that the driver's lawyer will use it as an admission of guilt on your part.

There is a thread that was started not too long ago on what to do when/if involved in a car v bike, bike v car, bike v pedestrian or pedestrian v bike accident. One of the first pieces of advice is NOT to seek advice on a public forum such as this. Even IF you delete this tread it is still in BF's archives, it is also in numerous search engine archives.

Consider this a learning experience, albeit an expensive one, but a learning experience none the less. As you really don't have any ground to stand on legally.

the problem is that on of the sti's is toast ans the big cahinring is bent. the carbon bars are safety concern as well as the carbon spider. and i find it odd but the front rim is straight but the rea powertap wheel has the rim bent.

No, the problem is that you caused an accident, you do not have insurance and now you want the other guy to pay your costs.

i have already looked at it and have gotten estimates from $250-850 because it is only paint damage no bumps or anything. the only damage is the scaped paint mark and nothing else.

A pearlized paint job, which is almost always more expensive and harder to match. And your estimates are not the one's that count. The owner of the car has the right to take his car where HE wants to get it made whole and it could cost more then your estimates to get it repainted.

Lots of armchair lawyers here so I'll add my 2 cents.

This may suck if you're a driver but hey in this case, you're on a bike, he's in a car. It almost doesn't matter what happened...if a car and bike or car and motorocycle or car and pedestrian or car and little toddler on a big wheel get into an accident, guess who's gonna pay? hint: it's not gonna be the little toddler riding his big wheel.

Your bike is obviously damaged because of a car. It sucks to be a driver sometimes but I am pretty sure that the driver (or his insurance) are gonna have to pay for your bike.

This is why you sometimes hear of pedestrians in poor areas suddenly running onto the street to get hit by an expensive car...pedestrian is gonna get paid.

RVD.

RVD,

Go back and reread what he has posted, HE the bicycle operator rear ended the car he was following closely enough to see that the driver was looking for an address and when the driver found said address stopped to turn when the bicycle operator struck the car from behind. The operator of the bicycle is the one who is at fault not the driver of the car.

...he was not even looking at the road in front of him because he was looking for and address when he saw the street stop at the last minute.

This makes it all you ... sorry man. As the vehicle in behind you HAVE to be able to safety avoid his car, by either evasive maneuver or by stopping. Not maintaining a safe distance or too much speed for the conditions will most likely be the charge potentially. I'd walk away from this one, lest it cost you a nice paint job.

Although Digital_Cowboy might be a bit undiplomatic, his point is correct. The best thing to do here is nothing. If you never hear from the driver again, count yourself lucky that he ate the cost of the damage rather than go after you for payment.

well call me stubborn but i am going for it and i already contacted the lawyer that is going to take care of the case.

Well... best of luck with it man.

This makes it all you ... sorry man. As the vehicle in behind you HAVE to be able to safety avoid his car, by either evasive maneuver or by stopping. Not maintaining a safe distance or too much speed for the conditions will most likely be the charge potentially. I'd walk away from this one, lest it cost you a nice paint job.
the problem is that when i saw him he was on the shoulder and he was taking off. there was a long line of cars parked and i saw him speed up and the he made a maneuver to take the lane by this time i had figured out he did not see me so i slowed a bit to take the shoulder and avoid him by going right whe he was making an attempt to make take the left then suddently he went back to take the shoulder that he had not left completely. i tryied to avoid him but it was too late. had i not been alert he would have pushed me to the left lane with traffic running, if i had not slow down the impact would have benn that much worse.

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=whittier%20and%20dorland&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl

go to the right and go past the tree that is where he was taking off the tryied to merge to the lane right after and the back in before the corner and stop.

it was the owner of that tuxedo shop the only one that was a witness.

A pearlized paint job, which is almost always more expensive and harder to match. And your estimates are not the one's that count. The owner of the car has the right to take his car where HE wants to get it made whole and it could cost more then your estimates to get it repainted.

the paint is plain orange not metallic nor perlize.

the problem is that when i saw him he was on the shoulder and he was taking off. there was a long line of cars parked and i saw him speed up and the he made a maneuver to take the lane by this time i had figured out he did not see me so i slowed a bit to take the shoulder and avoid him by going right whe he was making an attempt to make take the left then suddently he went back to take the shoulder that he had not left completely. i tryied to avoid him but it was too late. had i not been alert he would have pushed me to the left lane with traffic running, if i had not slow down the impact would have benn that much worse.

This still puts the blame on you.

You attempted to pass him on the right NEVER a good tactic.

He moves back to the right, how would that have caused you to enter the lane of approaching traffic? Also if you were attempting to pass him on the right why is the damage to the left rear of his car?

You clearly were not maintaining a safe distance for the driving circumstances and therefore you are at fault.