Cyclocross - Cyclocross as "main ride"

I'm getting back into cycling and am in the market for a new Road bike. in teh $1000 +/- range. I have been thinking about a cyclocross as an option as I:
a) am 220 b) ride on some pretty bumpy/caracked roads c) don't need a full blown race bike. I would like something durable, sub 23# and able to keep up with my buddies (simularly priced/ weighted) road bikes for our (max) 20 mi trips. So I was hopeing that someone with experience in each style ( full road vs CC) tell me what the tradeoffs would be and how significant the will seem if I were to use a CC as my primary road ride.

( Geting ready to test ride one tomorrow.)

P.s. Did some searching on this one as I thought it may be a FAQ but the filter just points me to thousands of posts. Any help appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

Dave

Unless you are a high level roadracer, there will be no performance difference in a Cyclocross bike with slicks and a road bike. You are on the right track, if you have a bike that will fit wide tires, you can run skinny ones if you want. If your frame will only fit skinny tires, you are limiting your options.

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=554741

Seconding the tires comment. Most road bikes in our price range won't be able to accommodate large tires. Large tires are important if you're planning on riding over rough and cracked roads, and at your weight.

You'll lose a little bit of speed going XC over a pure road bike, but since it sounds like you're doing mostly recreational rides, you won't even notice. Besides, if you go XC you can always throw the knobbly tires back on and go hit some trails.

Don't get too hung up on the weight either. Any bike that you'll be looking at will weigh very similarly and if you're pushing 220 you'll want to make sure that you have strong, well built wheels. Most frames are easily strong enough, its wheels you'll have to worry more about. There's a subforum (Clysdales) that deals with this more specifically.

You'll lose a little bit of speed going CX over a pure road bike....

I'm not sure even this is true if you're talking about bikes that weigh about the same, unless you mean the high-end speed you can get spinning out a 53-11 gear where a CX bike only has 46-12. Since I can't spin out 46-12 without a really steep hill, I don't think about that much. ;)

I have both a Giant TCR and a Major Jake. Tires and body positioning being equal, I don't see any differences in speed until that speed is well over 25 mph on flats. Even then it might be more mental than anything else. IME, a well built and intelligently spec'ed cx bike is a pretty darn good "everything" bike.

Unless I am racing, I don't run knobbies on the cx bike. I run an inverted tread tire such as the Michelin Transworld City on my cx bike most of the time (28 or 32). This is almost as fast as a pure road tire and still allows me to ride pretty vigorously off road.

That said, if I were taking the cx bike out for a fast group road ride, I would certainly put pure road tires on it. I am slow enough without having tires to blame it on.

To summarize the usual:

The cross bike is heavier than a same-priced road bike, has less twitchy steering, but is much better in every other way. In a real road race you'd lose a little speed on hills and perhaps be disadvantaged in fighting for position in a pack. In return you get tougher, more comfortable, more versatile, better braking (especially when running wider tyres, which are what you'll need on those rougher roads). I also like the higher bottom bracket cross bikes tend to have - useful if you know how to lock on some extreme turn with countersteer.

It's also worth saying that while a road bike is a road bike, cross bikes vary more - a Tricross has some mtb in it, a Cotic Roadrat a dash more, a Crosscheck some volvo estate car - I suspect people here who really know their crossers may point you at something like a Jake The Snake, for maximum approach to roadishness. Or the Vin Dessel Gin and Trombones looks marvellous on paper -
http://www.vandesselsports.com/gandt.html. So I think everyone here will tell you that you have the right idea and gain enormously in every other way for a minuscule loss of speed and twitchiness, and that instead you should ask which crosser in your price range will hang best with the racers, if that's your goal.

Oh - and you'll have to learn to maintain cantilever brakes. Some people never do, but if you can concentrate for half an hour you should be fine.

Thanks Gents, encouraging and enlightening info. I've tested/ridden several /various road bikes in the last two weeks but hadn't seen a cyclocross until this past weekend. It's a 07' leftover Cannondale Optimo (3?) marked down to under $1K. ( Good deal if it fits?)

http://www.cannondale.com/bikes/07/cusa/road/cyclocross/model-7XR3C.html

A quick stand over showed that it's a candidate for my size. I plan to ride it tomorrow to test fit and ride. Also going to another bigger bike shop tomorrow night as well. Hopefully, they have more to look at. Cyclocross is not very big in this area.

Feel free to comment on this bike or any other in the $1200 +/- mark.

Oh yea, I wondered about the centerpulls. Seems like you don't see them like you used to on bikes.
I always thought they were light and worked great. Any drawback to them? Anyway, I'm a Mechanical engineer and pretty handy. A little bike maint. doesn't scare me.

Dave

How much under $1000 is that Cannondale? Around $1000 doesn't seem like an especially good deal for a 2007 leftover with mostly Tiagra parts. You can get a 2009 (or now 2010) Kona Jake with Tiagra stuff for $900.

If you've got as Performance Bike store near you, you can get a Fuji Cross Comp (http://www.performancebike.com/bikes/Product_10052_10551_1073267_-1_45500_20000_45501) with 105/Ultegra drive train for just under $1000 right now.

The Cannondale isn't a fantastic deal, but it doesn't really matter that it's an 07 IMO. None of the parts on it have really been updated since then.

The Jake may be a bit less, but it will be heavier (steel fork). It will also have a triple, which could be good or bad depending on your purposes.

The Fujis are a good deal. Performance has a lot of bikes marked very low right now as they are trying to grab market share. The Cross Comp has nice parts but is kinda porky. However it is a very solid parts spec and the rack and fender mounts make it a good all rounder, potentially.

So I guess it depends on your priorities. If racing and fast unloaded riding are priorities, I would go with the Cannondale or something along those lines. If you want more of a sturdy bike that will be hauling stuff sometimes, I'd look at the Fuji Cross Comp, Kona Jake, and Surly Crosscheck, in descending order of raciness.

I run a little contrary to the grain here. I regularly ride both a CX bike and a road bike and both have comparable equipment, gearing, etc. And despite what others have said here, the CX bike is slower, not tremendously so, but it is noticeable. On my typical 25-mile loop, I'll average 15.5 mph on the road bike and about 14 on the CX bike.

I think everything adds up. The CX bike is taller (more wind resistance), puts the rider in a less aero position, has wider tires (32 mm vs. 25 mm), and weighs an extra pound or two. Granted, you can run narrower tires on the CX bike and reduce the difference, but then you give up much of the comfort advantage that had you taking the CX bike to being with.

I'm not knocking CX bikes and on most rides I actually prefer the tradeoff and take the CX bike. But if you're riding regularly with people with high-end road bikes, you are going to have to work a bit harder. I'm just pointing out that there is no free lunch.

- Mark

Mark, this is my experience as well. There is a cost on a CX bike with no modification. BUT, you can change the characteristics of a CX bike to make it just as fast as a road bike though. Depends on the CX bike though. Some like the cross check are going to be heavy no matter what.

That's what great about CX bikes. Flip the stem, put 23's on and go play with your roadie buddies. Flip it back, put your cross tires on and go play in the dirt. Trade off is comfort.

FWIW, I cycle commute daily right at the 50mi round trip mark. I have a stable of bikes to choose from ranging from FS MTB to a BMC TT bike, and for 90% of my riding I use a Fuji Cross Pro. Still running the 32's it came with, and short of SPD's, it's all stock. No other bike I have rides as well for that distance, and if I choose to I can hang with the pure roadies. Ride compliance is wonderful, I can ride in any weather, and it's just plain a hoot to ride.

And to agree with another poster, Performance is about dumping the things on the market. I paid $1050 out the door for mine. $1k for a full Ultegra bike is hard to touch. Mine @54cm is just under 21lbs, so don't think it's a total porker...

Just make sure you like the way the front brake feels/sounds when you have the road tires on it. I'd do a test ride for this alone before purchasing.

I run my CX bike with Panaracer Pasela TG 28 foldable, which are light and fast. Unfortunately my legs are not very fast. The headset preload is maintained by the front brake cable hanger, so it is easy to flip/unflip the stem and swap spacers without having to bother about the headset.

>The CX bike is taller (more wind resistance),

This seems to be the main point - CX bikes are less designed around aero than road bikes are. You wouldn't see super wide cantis on a road bike...

>puts the rider in a less aero position,

Isn't that just a function of how you set it up? My handlebars are set pretty low compared to my seat. The only real difference should be the slightly raised BB?

>has wider tires (32 mm vs. 25 mm),

As mentioned, you put road bike tyres on to go fast...

>and weighs an extra pound or two

OP specified same weight.

Give me back my free lunch!

Steve

I run a little contrary to the grain here. I regularly ride both a CX bike and a road bike and both have comparable equipment, gearing, etc. And despite what others have said here, the CX bike is slower, not tremendously so, but it is noticeable. On my typical 25-mile loop, I'll average 15.5 mph on the road bike and about 14 on the CX bike.

I think everything adds up. The CX bike is taller (more wind resistance), puts the rider in a less aero position, has wider tires (32 mm vs. 25 mm), and weighs an extra pound or two. Granted, you can run narrower tires on the CX bike and reduce the difference, but then you give up much of the comfort advantage that had you taking the CX bike to being with.

I'm not knocking CX bikes and on most rides I actually prefer the tradeoff and take the CX bike. But if you're riding regularly with people with high-end road bikes, you are going to have to work a bit harder. I'm just pointing out that there is no free lunch.

- Mark

At 15mph good 32mm tyres will be faster than good 25s; search for the recent references to Jobst Brandt and rolling resistance on this sub-forum. (A Randoneur runs faster than the speed you've quoted, and 28 is faster than than 25 for a Rando - narrow tyres don't take the advantage until quite a high speed.) The marginal weight difference will also be almost irrelevant.

At 15mph good 32mm tyres will be faster than good 25s; search for the recent references to Jobst Brandt and rolling resistance on this sub-forum. (A Randoneur runs faster than the speed you've quoted, and 28 is faster than than 25 for a Rando - narrow tyres don't take the advantage until quite a high speed.) The marginal weight difference will also be almost irrelevant.

I'm really glad you're here preaching this good news. Seriously. I'm a convert.

After reading something you wrote to this effect a few months ago I bought some 700x50 (29x2.0) Marathon Supremes for my rain bike. Despite being fantastically wide, they are faster than the 700x42 Conti TownRides they replaced. I'm assuming that in this case the faster has more to do with the tire itself than the increase in width, but the increase in width doesn't seem to have hurt at all. The Marathon Supremes even feel like they roll better than the 700x28 RiBMos I run on my cross bike.

I'm guessing a two-inch-wide tire actually would register some negative wind-resistance effects if I were faster, but at around 18 mph where I usually cruise it doesn't seem to be a problem. Maybe I've just had too much of the Jobst Brandt kool aid to notice. ;)

I'm really glad you're here preaching this good news. Seriously. I'm a convert.

After reading something you wrote to this effect a few months ago I bought some 700x50 (29x2.0) Marathon Supremes for my rain bike. Despite being fantastically wide, they are faster than the 700x42 Conti TownRides they replaced. I'm assuming that in this case the faster has more to do with the tire itself than the increase in width, but the increase in width doesn't seem to have hurt at all. The Marathon Supremes even feel like they roll better than the 700x28 RiBMos I run on my cross bike.

I'm guessing a two-inch-wide tire actually would register some negative wind-resistance effects if I were faster, but at around 18 mph where I usually cruise it doesn't seem to be a problem. Maybe I've just had too much of the Jobst Brandt kool aid to notice. ;)

Width in itself reduces RR, but so does high pressure - which normally comes with narrower. The tie breakers can be compound quality and wall thinness. Supremes are thick, but the quality of the compound is outstanding - which is why they're so pricey. (Compounds also have different biases towards speed, dry and wet grip, wear resistance, puncture resistance, etc - it isn't just better/worse.)

I'm really surprised at your running 700x50 though! That is wide. But you've chosen probably the outstanding tyre for the job. You can also pull your RR down some more by using a high quality latex inner tube and heavily talcing the tube and inside of the tyre.

(If bike magazines did their jobs properly - for us instead of advertisers - then they'd test tyres for all the above properties and we'd have numerical data.)

I'm really surprised at your running 700x50 though! That is wide.

Well, the bike is a 29er (pic (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3082/3564744482_d2a9f186aa_o.jpg) for those so inclined), so I decided to try to go with the spirit of the bike. Since I use it almost exclusively in the rain, the Supremes seemed like the perfect choice, given their wet grip. I actually expected it to be slower than it is.

Sorry to go off on a tangent. Everyone please feel free to return to the OP's topic.

Sweet stuff here Gents, I'm taking this all in!

Went out test riding after work tonight.
The 07' Cannondale at a local shop didn't fit well after all but....
Stopped at yet another ( 7th in all) shop and they did have more than a few Leftover Cannondale 08' XR6's in stock http://www.cannondale.com/bikes/08/cusa/model-8XR6C.html
He had a Felt XR1 and a Bianchi lower end CX as well but not in my size. After some fitting ( via eyeball vs the $125 high end fit) , it appeared that the 47CM size XR6 was better than the 50cm and fit good. Took it for a test ride and WOW, it REALLY felt better than anything I've ridden to date. Steering wasn't "twitchy" , felt fast and surprisingly the knobbies didn't ride bad or loud. I was even very comfortable in any hand position on the drop bar. Actually liked the Tiagra shifters as it was nice to have a visual on what gear I was in without looking back. Only gripes were: 1) that the brakes seemed weak and squealed 2) Seat SUCKED. I assume both are fixable cheap. Reg price was marked @ $1399 and they offered $1200 out of the gate. Given he has "several" 08 not so popular cyclocross CR6's, in the not so popular 47 cm size, I'm thinking I can get them down some more. If I decide to bite, any idea what would be a good price (with /without pedals )? $1000- $1100 to low ;-)

Anyway, not rushing as I'd still like to test ride/compare a Fuji cross Comp and a Jake the Snake ( if I can find either. I'll have to drive an hour + at min.) Performance does have the Fuji Cross Comp in stock for $1015 delivered and no tax. The drive train specs better but I have no idea about the rest of it. I may also be able to get a LBS to match/come close to that # . He's pretty flexable. Thoughts/ comparisons welcome!

http://www.performancebike.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/OrderItemDisplay?storeId=10052&orderId=4001386801&catalogId=10551&ddkey=http:OrderCalculate



p.s. The bud I would ride with most rides a Giant FCR 3 flat bar fitness and averages 13-14 mph per his computer. Nice info on the fatter tire not being a real concern at those speeds. Salesman said I could get $20 on a trade in for the factory tires against some road tires but i'm thinking I would keep them on this winter. $20 isn't going to make me any richer at this point!

Only gripes were: 1) that the brakes seemed weak and squealed...

Ah, the Achilles heal of cyclocross bikes! This seems to be the standard reaction to Oryx and Shorty brakes, which are pretty much ubiquitous on stock CX bikes. Check out the "More Braking Power (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=559264)" thread for some discussion on how to fix it.

Yes, the braking problem be easily fixed - see the recommended thread. In defense of the Oryx brakes, they could just need the pads toeing in.

Re. saddles, they're very personal. But I think the WTB Speed V is the closest thing to a safe bet.

Well, the bike is a 29er (pic (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3082/3564744482_d2a9f186aa_o.jpg) for those so inclined), so I decided to try to go with the spirit of the bike. Since I use it almost exclusively in the rain, the Supremes seemed like the perfect choice, given their wet grip. I actually expected it to be slower than it is.

Sorry to go off on a tangent. Everyone please feel free to return to the OP's topic.


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3082/3564744482_d2a9f186aa_o.jpg

Hmm. Likes threatening black-on-black hardware, hugely tall - those 29s look like 26s against the frame - dude, are you Darth Vader...?

Have you thought of trying dirt drops on that bike? I know getting shifting sorted out would be a pain, and it might be best to wait a few months for the new rumoured Salsa bars, but that bike looks like it would really suit them.

At 15mph good 32mm tyres will be faster than good 25s;.

Ummm, no, they will be the same speed. ;)

I wouldn't buy the bike until the brakes meet your satisfaction with the tires you will be using. Sure they can be tuned and improved, but that can be a huge hassle and may never be totally solvable. I don't ride my CX bike anymore because no shop has been able to fix the brake issue (front tire skips on pavement with heavy braking) - it only happens with 25/28c tires on pavement. CX specific tires the problem is not there. New fork (no charge from Trek), new pads, multiple adjustments, new hanger, check headset, etc. I just got tired of trying new things and it felt very unsafe.

At 15mph good 32mm tyres will be faster than good 25s

Ummm, no, they will be the same speed. ;)

DOH!

I mean: "At 15mph good 32s will require less effort to maintain speed than good 25s - because the rolling resistance advantage of the wider tyre will outweigh the aero advantage of the thinner tyre until speed rises; RR being proportional to speed, and air resistance to the *square* of speed, so that aero dominates at higher speeds but may be disregarded at lower ones."

I wouldn't buy the bike until the brakes meet your satisfaction with the tires you will be using. Sure they can be tuned and improved, but that can be a huge hassle and may never be totally solvable. I don't ride my CX bike anymore because no shop has been able to fix the brake issue (front tire skips on pavement with heavy braking) - it only happens with 25/28c tires on pavement.

Weird. What do you mean by "skips"? An intermittent front wheel braking skid? And if it's CX bike and the problem only happens with narrow tyres then why not put 32/35s on?

To honest I'm not sure that you do have a problem - this sounds like powerful brakes are overwhelming an insufficient contact patch. Well, yes, that will happen with thin tyres and good brakes. The only puzzle is why the wheel turns again- are you releasing pressure, perhaps unconsciously? Or could it be that brake bosses are flexing?

Weird. What do you mean by "skips"? An intermittent front wheel braking skid? And if it's CX bike and the problem only happens with narrow tyres then why not put 32/35s on?

To honest I'm not sure that you do have a problem - this sounds like powerful brakes are overwhelming an insufficient contact patch. Well, yes, that will happen with thin tyres and good brakes. The only puzzle is why the wheel turns again- are you releasing pressure, perhaps unconsciously? Or could it be that brake bosses are flexing?

Yes, by skips I mean bouncing on the pavement. I don't put 32/35s (I have 32 & 38) as they have a tread that does not give me confidence on pavement cornering and my intent was to use also it as a road bike with fast group rides when I was not on trails. I am pretty sure it is something flexing. I don't have any similar problems with front brakes on any other bike I've used with even harder front braking and even smaller (23c) tires.

dude, are you Darth Vader...?

No, but I do have his bike. :)



Have you thought of trying dirt drops on that bike? I know getting shifting sorted out would be a pain, and it might be best to wait a few months for the new rumoured Salsa bars, but that bike looks like it would really suit them.

I actually have been thinking about it. Just yesterday I was trying to figure out what size stem I'd need to get the fit right. I'm not sure it will work if Marin's claimed effective top tube length is accurate -- 590 mm on the 17 inch model, which this is, vs. 543 on my cross bike. I'm still trying to get my head wrapped around the problem.

What are the rumored Salsa bars to which you refer? I've had my eye on their Short and Shallows.

The rumoured bars are to match the Salsa Fargo. Otoh, rumour != necessarily true!

The guy who designed One On's Midge Bars has gone solo - I believe he has a Midge replacement coming out.

Yes, by skips I mean bouncing on the pavement. I don't put 32/35s (I have 32 & 38) as they have a tread that does not give me confidence on pavement cornering and my intent was to use also it as a road bike with fast group rides when I was not on trails. I am pretty sure it is something flexing. I don't have any similar problems with front brakes on any other bike I've used with even harder front braking and even smaller (23c) tires.

Ok. But why single out cross bikes for this problem and special testing measures? Grip can very hugely even in tyres of the same width - any bike could have each its braking algebra changed, revealing a problem like this. I'd say return the bike to Trek, and be extra paranoid about their bikes, not all crossers. It certainly isn't relevant to a bike that is showing the usual symptoms of sloppy cantilever set up by the LBS.

All I suggested was that the OP ask to test ride the bike with the tires they intend to use before making the purchase.
I singled out CX bikes because there have been dozens of threads about CX bikes with squealing, jumpy, chattering, weak, etc. cantilever brakes and how to correct and the OP wanted to use as a road bike which most commonly leads to using road tires.
I wouldn't single out CX bikes if the intended use was CX. I wouldn't single out road bikes if the intended use was road - in which case the bike will be test ridden configured pretty close to how it will be used.
Better to ensure it is right when purchased than later.

I wouldn't buy the bike until the brakes meet your satisfaction with the tires you will be using. Sure they can be tuned and improved, but that can be a huge hassle and may never be totally solvable. I don't ride my CX bike anymore because no shop has been able to fix the brake issue (front tire skips on pavement with heavy braking) - it only happens with 25/28c tires on pavement. CX specific tires the problem is not there. New fork (no charge from Trek), new pads, multiple adjustments, new hanger, check headset, etc. I just got tired of trying new things and it felt very unsafe.
Did you try a different wheel? is there anything wrong with the rim where the brake pads contact it?

All I suggested was that the OP ask to test ride the bike with the tires they intend to use before making the purchase.
I singled out CX bikes because there have been dozens of threads about CX bikes with squealing, jumpy, chattering, weak, etc. cantilever brakes and how to correct and the OP wanted to use as a road bike which most commonly leads to using road tires.


But these brake problems are just bad adjustment - as you should know if you've read "dozens of threads". They can be fixed in five minutes with an allen key and a spanner. Either what you are describing is this - in which case you and your LBS should learn how to adjust cantis - and trivial. Or it is something unique, and not a general cross bike problem.



I wouldn't single out CX bikes if the intended use was CX. I wouldn't single out road bikes if the intended use was road - in which case the bike will be test ridden configured pretty close to how it will be used.
Better to ensure it is right when purchased than later.

There's nothing mystical about a cross bike's braking system - it's one shared with many tourers, tandems, and earlier generations of mountain bikes. As previously stated, your problem is either trivial and you and your LBS have botched a quite simple job, or unique - and Trek have probably fouled up, which logically should put one off buying Trek bikes, not cross bikes per se.

(My last post ignores issues with Tricross bikes fitted with Mini-V's as they are just an illustration of why you have to damn careful to look over a modern Specialized for overly marketing oriented engineering - if the Tricross was *more* like a typical crosser there would be fewer threads about its brakes!)

Not quite my size but I liked teh Fuji Cross Comp allot. Frame welding was sloppier but everything else seemed a step up. Brakes seemed better than the cannondale. LBS price is about $1250 OTD ordered. Performance bike has them for around $200 less ( plus points). That's also consederably less than the nice but lesser outfitted Cannondale .I'm really thinking I may pull the trigger ( even though I promised myself I would wait longer._) I'd like to give the LBS the buisness but I figure I can spend some $ to make us both happy.

I'd think buy the bike at Performance, spend the extra $200 at the LBS and everyone will be happy. It's my understanding that LBS margin is lower on bikes than anything else they offer. Plus, you get more goodies that way. :thumb:

The 49cm Fuji looks like it has very similar geometry to the 47cm Canndondale (same effective top tube length, etc.) so I would expect that it could be adjusted to fit you nicely.

>Better to ensure it is right when purchased than later.

That is a very personal opinion. If I'd followed that advice, I wouldn't have had a bike for the last year and a half. Issues with brakes rate pretty low down on my personal unhappiness meter. And apart from switching to disk brakes, they're not all that expensive to fix.

Much better to get a damn bike, get out there riding, and fix whatever problems actually cause you grief in practice, rather than spend months agonising about potential problems which may not bother you at all on the road.

Steve

(My last post ignores issues with Tricross bikes fitted with Mini-V's as they are just an illustration of why you have to damn careful to look over a modern Specialized for overly marketing oriented engineering - if the Tricross was *more* like a typical crosser there would be fewer threads about its brakes!)

Specialized put these Mini-V's on I believe one year because of all the complaints. Specialized is a company that seems to really modify this particular line when they get complaints about it. Take the 2007 Comp which came with a triple. People complained about it and it was dropped the next year. Same thing with the Mini-V's. If people simply learned how to adjust them, they'd be pleased with these brakes. I've had 3 Tricross's and have yet to have issues with the brakes. BUT, each and every one was not adjusted correctly. 5 minutes later and everything is right with the world.

Specialized put these Mini-V's on I believe one year because of all the complaints. Specialized is a company that seems to really modify this particular line when they get complaints about it. Take the 2007 Comp which came with a triple. People complained about it and it was dropped the next year. Same thing with the Mini-V's. If people simply learned how to adjust them, they'd be pleased with these brakes. I've had 3 Tricross's and have yet to have issues with the brakes. BUT, each and every one was not adjusted correctly. 5 minutes later and everything is right with the world.

Well, there you. The idea that there is some sort of special non-trivial problem specific to cross bikes is even more absurd.

>I've had 3 Tricross's and have yet to have issues with the brakes.

Heh, two here and lots of problems with brakes! :) First one had v-brakes with too much cable pull (hence insufficient pad clearance). Had them swapped for cantis - worked ok. Until it hit a car, replaced with disk brake. Second one I fiddled with a bit until I eventually broke the front cable yoke. Still fiddling...:)

The real problem I'm having is that my LBS doesn't appear to understand/respect cantilevers. When my 12 month service contract runs out I'll go somewhere else. I tell them that I need more mechanical advantage and it's very hard to stop, and they tell me:
1) Cantilever brakes don't work very well.
2) The "safety levers" (he means the interrupteur/cross levers) are only meant to "slow the bike down", not "stop it". (WTF? That distinction doesn't even make sense. All brakes slow, then stop...)
3) The brakes don't meet the Australian standard.
4) Cyclocross brakes aren't intended for riding down steep hills. (Wtf...)
5) That I could improve braking performance by swapping out the Tektro CR720s for "Shimano brakes". ???
6) That they set the brakes up "nice and aggressive" (read, low mechanical advantage) and that that's as good as they get.

The real problem is that they mostly service disk brakes and calipers and have gotten into a lazy routine of recommending that people upgrade cantis to disk.

(Whoops, where did that LBS rant come from...)

Steve

>I've had 3 Tricross's and have yet to have issues with the brakes.

Heh, two here and lots of problems with brakes! :) First one had v-brakes with too much cable pull (hence insufficient pad clearance). Had them swapped for cantis - worked ok. Until it hit a car, replaced with disk brake. Second one I fiddled with a bit until I eventually broke the front cable yoke. Still fiddling...:)

The real problem I'm having is that my LBS doesn't appear to understand/respect cantilevers. When my 12 month service contract runs out I'll go somewhere else. I tell them that I need more mechanical advantage and it's very hard to stop, and they tell me:
1) Cantilever brakes don't work very well.
2) The "safety levers" (he means the interrupteur/cross levers) are only meant to "slow the bike down", not "stop it". (WTF? That distinction doesn't even make sense. All brakes slow, then stop...)
3) The brakes don't meet the Australian standard.
4) Cyclocross brakes aren't intended for riding down steep hills. (Wtf...)
5) That I could improve braking performance by swapping out the Tektro CR720s for "Shimano brakes". ???
6) That they set the brakes up "nice and aggressive" (read, low mechanical advantage) and that that's as good as they get.

Seriously: write to Specialized and discuss the above. They need to kick some ass before these idiots hurt their rep or their customers.

And start maintaining your brakes yourself! It's not hard, especially if you buy a "3rd hand" tool designed for the job.

>2) The "safety levers" (he means the interrupteur/cross levers) are only meant to "slow the bike down", not "stop it". (WTF? That distinction doesn't even make sense. All brakes slow, then stop...)
.................
5) That I could improve braking performance by swapping out the Tektro CR720s for "Shimano brakes". ???
Steve

Tricross Comp here. First - my cross levers work better that main brifters on stock Avids. Second - I am getting Tektro 720s next week - whoo-wee!!

Happy riding to me!!

SF

Well despite all this negative talk on cyclo brakes,:( I just dropped a deposit on a leftover 07' Giant TCX
http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-us/bikes/road/200/11461/?collections_id=2
LBS had it (with factory upgraded 105 derailleurs) buried in the back on my previous trips. Just happened to spot it on an inventory list for a "end of summer clearance.".
Anyway, took it for an extended test ride down some pretty neglected streets and it fits and rides SWEET. Brakes worked well and did NOT squeak. 34/50 front ring seemed to have good range for my use. I'm a little sceptical of the rim/spoke arrangement but figure I don't really intend to race/beat it anyway. I just want better than "race bike" comfort and durability. What floored me was the weight of the bike. It weighed in @ 19.9 # with pedals on my (very accurate) digital fish scale. All in all just what I had been looking for in a "back roads" bike. Anyway, I was able to beat them down quite a bit off the "sale price" so this also turned out to be the least expensive on the cyclo's I was eyeing. LBS benefits are a nice to have too. I won't pick it up till Thursday but am really looking forward to it!

Thanks again for all your well thought out advice. It helped me out allot!

>And start maintaining your brakes yourself! It's not hard, especially if you buy a "3rd hand" tool designed for the job.

Did you not see the part where I broke the brake cable yoke attempting to fiddle? :) (I think if I'd just held the nut with a spanner, I would have been ok.)

http://www.giant-bicycles.com/_upload_us/bikes/models/zooms/2007/TCX-Brushed-Team-Blue.jpg

Pretty!

I can see what you mean about those wheels - the look of them scares me a little. But if you've ridden the bike and they were rigid, that's what counts.

Two suggestions:

- Replace the brake pads with Salmon/Pink Kool Stops if it rains at all in your locality

- Go to Rivendell's site and look up the tyre width against weight recommendations.

And as a reward for my virtue, as shown in through the enjoyable practice of bike purchase kibbitzing , I just ebayed a gorgeous looking Paul Milne Crosser, to be delivered tomorrow - for about £200. About 21lb, not much used, Campag Mirage groupset. Paul Milne are a UK shop that specializes in cyclocross, so I'm hoping one of their own brand bikes will be pretty good...

Pretty!

I can see what you mean about those wheels - the look of them scares me a little. But if you've ridden the bike and they were rigid, that's what counts.

Two suggestions:

- Replace the brake pads with Salmon/Pink Kool Stops if it rains at all in your locality

- Go to Rivendell's site and look up the tyre width against weight recommendations.

And as a reward for my virtue, as shown in through the enjoyable practice of bike purchase kibbitzing , I just ebayed a gorgeous looking Paul Milne Crosser, to be delivered tomorrow - for about £200. About 21lb, not much used, Campag Mirage groupset. Paul Milne are a UK shop that specializes in cyclocross, so I'm hoping one of their own brand bikes will be pretty good...
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Thanks for the input. I will surely look up those links. ( BTW, It's rained here 80% of this summer!!)
I'll post a review in teh spring after i've used it a good bit.

Congrats on your find as well! Nothing like self rewards! You're never disapointed!