Bicycle Mechanics - Radial Truing

First off, I did use the search. *Clears Voice*

I took an old 27'' wheel and did a singlespeed conversion on it today, axle-respace, some dishing.
I got it nearly perfectly laterally trued, but the wheel has some radial troubles.

Any suggustions on radial truing with out a stand?
Can a 1 1/4'' junk tire be deceiving to the wobble of the wheel?

I wish I had a stand.

take the tire off.

Always make radial-adjustments with a pair of spokes. This way it shouldn't effect your lateral true.

By pair u mean two that are crossed? or one from each side of hub?

One on each side of the hub/rim. If you tighten one on the right side 1/4 turn, do the same to the spoke opposite it on the left side. If you tighten one spoke only, it will pull the rim in that direction and your wheel will go out of true side-to-side (lateral-truing). So tighten both sides.

Think about it visually. And read this:

http://sheldonbrown.com/wheels/index.html

Thanks. Theres a bike shop a couple blocks from my house, but they are really arrogant. They do not like answering questions.

Should I allign a zip tie above the rim?

Tape a tire lever or something that's straight to the chainstay. A big ziptie would work, might damage the paint if it moves around.

Will the straight object be fixed in one position? move torward, or away from it? Just takes expierence I guess.

Search for hommade truingstands. Plenty of them made from old forks and other stuff. Great help plus you do not worry about paint.

A zip tie attached to the stays won't cause a problem...

In my (commercial) shop I use a diy stand made with an old fork and it uses zip ties and a dial indicator for really fine tuning.

It has served me well for many many years.

Take the tire off.

You can take some tape or something, and go across the chainstays, and visually measure from it to see how much radial runout you have. I use a magnet, so I can adjust it easily.

From there, it is just a question of patience. As Panthers pointed out, always adjust adjacent spoke pairs and you will not throw off the lateral too much, drive and non-drive side is the pair. Not crossed spokes, You will have to go back and check it as a last step.

FYI, it can be hard to bring an old steel 27 in, because they can be bent and have low spots that can't be removed with truing. There are tools made for pulling the flat spot back out, but I don't know if you can find a bike shop which still has one. Seems most shops want to just sell bikes these days, and offer limited repairs on the side.

If radial truing causes uneven spoke tension it probably means that the rim is bent and needs to be corrected or replaced. You can't do a good job of radial truing with the tire on.

Al

Can rims be bent in the radial aspecT?

Can rims be bent in the radial aspecT?

Absolutely. Hitting a nice rock, pothole, or curb at warp speed will do it.

I am so Angry right now. Its a singlewalled old weinmann rim. I feel like the rim is bent. But Ill never know untill I cut out all the spokes and lay it flat on the ground. Makes me feel like Im a failure at truing wheels. And all my hopes and dreams in wheel building are collasping. God-darnit. And the fact that I don't have a truing stand isn't helping.

I am so Angry right now. Its a singlewalled old weinmann rim. I feel like the rim is bent. But Ill never know untill I cut out all the spokes and lay it flat on the ground. Makes me feel like Im a failure at truing wheels. And all my hopes and dreams in wheel building are collasping. God-darnit. And the fact that I don't have a truing stand isn't helping.

See if your LBS has the capability to straighten the wheel, if it is actually bent.

They would need something like this.

http://www.biketoolsetc.com/index.cgi?id=180244260661&d=single&c=Tools&sc=Wheel-and-Rim&tc=Rim-Repair-Tools&item_id=CU-030

Dont rims get bent just by riding them?

As a general rule, it would require some sort of elevated force to actually bend one beyond it's yield point. (the point at which it deforms and doesn't return back to it;s original shape)

When the bike is flipped up side down, and I spin the wheel, the whole bike starts to shake. But appears to be latterally intrue, and today I tried to radial. What ever. Maybe its just a junk wheel? with a crap tire?

When the bike is flipped up side down, and I spin the wheel, the whole bike starts to shake. But appears to be latterally intrue, and today I tried to radial. What ever. Maybe its just a junk wheel? with a crap tire?

Take the tire off. You may be going to a lot of trouble and worry trying to troubleshoot a rim problem that's actually a tire problem.

I took the tire off, and tapes the tire lever on, When the rim rubbed I Tightened the spokes by pairs.

Wheel Truing takes time to learn? Im 21 years old. Im just kind of angry that Ive still gotta pay people to true my wheels.

Im still going to take up wheel building, and not let it get me downl.

Bottom Line, Would you say that it takes time, and takes a good time to master? Or do some people just not have what it takeS?

Having a mechanic-mentor would help.

Also: If its radially un-true will that cause the bike to shake, when upside down? THank you for helping me guys.

Also: If its radially un-true will that cause the bike to shake, when upside down?

Maybe but it's more likely related to an out of balance tire/wheel combination. Some shaking is not necessarily a bad sign on a bike tire when spinning freely. Good balance is not so critical on a bike.

If you want to try to straighten the rim take the wheel apart. Use a rubber mallet and some wood blocks to re-shape the rim. Re-build the wheel using the same spokes and nipples. It's really not so hard to do. But don't expect the rim to be perfect. It needs to be close enough that the spoke tension is close to equal, or close to equal on either side if the wheel is a rear dished for a cog set.

Steel rims are good for practicing your building techniques, not so good for riding.

Al

Follow through with your intention to learn wheel building, and you'll learn more about truing than is ever possible through just "tweaking" existing wheels.

Follow through with your intention to learn wheel building, and you'll learn more about truing than is ever possible through just "tweaking" existing wheels.

+3 :thumb:

That is, without a doubt, the best road to take. Then truing can be done without much thought or fear.

But it takes time right?

This isn't Star Trek. You're not Dr. McCoy putting on "The Teacher" to re-attach Spock's Brain. There are no shortcuts to learning a skill/art such as wheel-building.

The plus-side - it's a lot of FUN after you relax into it. Nothing is as nice in bike-mechanics as rolling out your first wheel. Hang it on your wall after a ride.

Takes practice, and actually doing it. It will come with time, and a nice truing stand. Mean while the wheels I actually ride everyday I should probally keep having a professional true for me. I don't want my practicing wheel techniques interfer with my actual riding.

Wheel building is probably my favorite bike repair activity. Yes... it takes patience to learn... but once you get the hang of it you'll never want to buy a ready built wheel set again. And these guys have given you some great advice.

Just to reinforce what the guys have said in this thread:


Once you settle into it, wheel building is very relaxing. It's like knitting to me... put on some music and spin that wheel.
A nice truing stand makes the job quicker.... but it is by no means mandatory. I use a Park TS-2 shop quality stand now, but I used an upside down bicycle fork and zip ties for years.
You'll find that truing your own properly built wheels is quick and easy compared to working on someone else's poorly built wheels. When I get my hands on a set of machine built factory wheels, I usually detension everything and start from scratch with the truing/tensioning process.
Once the word gets out that you do wheels... you WILL have lots of new friends popping up. It's very hard to find locally available wheel builders in most places. Even the LBS's around here refuse to build wheels. So unless you live near a really good wheelsmith, you will quickly exceed the skills of your local "professional" at the LBS!
Building your own wheels will not necessarily save you a ton of money if you're building entry level wheels, but I find that I can build much nicer wheels for the same money as I would spend on a mid level wheel set. Plus when I build my own I get exactly the components that I want... like spokes. Most of the mass produced factory wheel builders use crappy spokes... I use nice spokes chosen for the particular job that the wheels will be doing.


Patience... and remember... small adjustments are the key. You'll learn that 1/4 turn is a lot sometimes. :thumb:

On a new build or re-build the radial truing needs to be taken care of early while bringing up the spoke tension gradually and evenly. As tension approaches the target levels I start concentrating more on dishing, if a rear wheel, and lateral truing. The final dishing and lateral truing need to be done with the tire and tube fully inflated.

Al

I hate to ask a dumb question, but when the wheel "hops," is it with the reflector? Mine do that, so i take the reflectors off when I true the wheels.

I hate to ask a dumb question, but when the wheel "hops," is it with the reflector? Mine do that, so i take the reflectors off when I true the wheels.

Reflector??

Im currently unemployed, and looking for a job. But once I do Im going to start building wheels. My first build is going to be a front disc hub.

1.) I will finally be able to learn about disc brakes
2.) If my track hub ever stripps Im going to atempt a solid axle conversion on it. (Converting 5 speed 27'' rear wheels has helped me get some hands on expierence with respacing, and dishing.)

I want to work at a shop, and I figure having wheel building on the resume is going to go a long away. ive been told that some one who can true wheels (safely) is more of an asset to a bike shop.

Im a young guy by the way, with so much to learn. AND I WANT THE TS-2!!!!