Mountain Biking - The Official Roadie to Mountain bike thread

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The saddle should be at the height of the stem. You should ride trails with your arms extended but your weight towards the back.

Your stem height dilema is funny to me because I come from a BMX background, and I like big, wide (27") riser bars.

I primarily road ride, though, and have shallow drops and my stem height is up there.

Is everything going to be "the official_____" with you?:lol:

New stem looks perfect. Don't be too hasty to make any decisions about making it any different.

You may be putting a little too much thought into mountain biking. You don't "read a manual" and go ride...just throw a leg over the bike and start pedaling on some trail.

There are some decent basic tips to clearing sketchy sections...but there are plenty of "nooblet threads" already circulating...just search. There's a sticky or two at the top of this forum as well. Good info in there.

I think you're on the right track. When you actually get out there and ride some non-beginner trails...you will appreciate the bar position when negotiating technical terrain. Don't just sit there like a roadie, stand up and float over the gnar. One thing I've noticed about the "official roadie-to-MTB'er" convert...they usuall have the saddle pretty high like they're on the road bike still. Give yourself some room to move around up there. When you drop in a steep / rooty chute, you will want to get back behind that saddle quickly. Your knees will be slightly more bent than they would on your road bike, but you will spend alot more time standing up in the woods.

Lookin' good...I miss radial lacing.


BTW...wha'da'crap is KOPS?

BTW...wha'da'crap is KOPS?

"Knee over pedal spindal"

Glad you didn't stay with the original stem flipped. Looks like it would have resulted in loss of teeth.



P.S. Removing the rear reflector instantly ups your gnar-points.

I didn't think anything could be "official" until a mod/admin declared it official..

I removed both front and rear reflectors, how many Gnar points did my Dawg gain? lol

I think you're still digging out from negative gnar-points due to your Cheeto days.

I think you're on the right track. When you actually get out there and ride some non-beginner trails...you will appreciate the bar position when negotiating technical terrain.

+1... that's why I can't understand how my brother rails around on his CX bike in the drops :twitchy:

The saddle should be at the height of the stem. You should ride trails with your arms extended but your weight towards the back.

Is this always the case or are there exceptions?

Is everything going to be "the official_____" with you?:lol:

I was wondering the same :lol:

I think you're still digging out from negative gnar-points due to your Cheeto days.

Well played :thumb:

.....:roflmao2: .......:D.......:)......:o......:(....:mad:....:cry:

lol.

master chief wants his cockpit dialed in before the trails guys! flop the stem down aero=WIN

Is this always the case or are there exceptions?

This advice is for Freeriding...duh!

It doesn't need flipped unless you're gonna ride like junkyard.

Don't just sit there like a roadie, stand up and float over the gnar. One thing I've noticed about the "official roadie-to-MTB'er" convert...they usuall have the saddle pretty high like they're on the road bike still. Give yourself some room to move around up there. When you drop in a steep / rooty chute, you will want to get back behind that saddle quickly.

I agree with what chelboed is saying, but I do like my saddle a bit higher on ascent climbs, as I can get a bit more traction as I sit. When coming into a technical section, I just stand and do what is needed to get over or around it. Now on a descent I will lower my saddle so as to toss the bike around and get behind it when needed, as I also want to keep my lower jewels intact. This is me, others ride in other ways..

Another question for the resident mtn bike experts: When riding on a dirt road (hard packed dirt) that's about 1ft - 2ft wide, what setting should the front suspension be?

Locked out if possible, but it doesn't look like you can do that on the older suspension. I thought you were kinda supposed to set those things for your weight and forget it, it's been awhile so I am hazy.

Are you thinking about getting a new seat? I use a Specialized Phenom saddle which is the mountain equivalent of the Toupe. It's a great saddle.

Edit - Still a great looking bike! Very nice.

If this were the roadie forum, everyone would yell "FLIP IT FLIP IT!!!". So....I did just that.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3491/3814803187_df97c097db_o.jpg

?

Nice bike. I don't know about the reversed stem though - it just has that look of
begging to go over the bars on the first drop you encounter - too much weight forward
in that position?

Is this always the case or are there exceptions?

Pretty much always the case. Particulary important on the downhills that you delibarately keep the weight on the back of the bike by pinching the saddle with your tighs.

When you are going downhill you need your saddle lower so that you can shift your weight back and not get your yeehaws caught. Plus you need your saddle a tad lower when you aren't going downhill so you can use your legs to move the bike around if need be.

stop resurrecting old threads to ask a question. you have 2 brand new threads to do that in.

Maybe I'm doing it wrong

Yep.

It's a joke. If you ever post a picture of your road bike on the road bike forums with the stem slightly angled up (like the 3rd picture I posted up), you'll hear the ubiquitous "flip it" comment from everyone & their mothers.

Oh. In that case. . . :lol:

I have no knowledge of the roadie universe.

Pretty much always the case. Particulary important on the downhills that you delibarately keep the weight on the back of the bike by pinching the saddle with your tighs.

Oh boy...

OH junkyard. I TOTALLY had something to say in reply to you but I really didn't want to get you started. :lol:

Pretty much always the case. Particulary important on the downhills that you delibarately keep the weight on the back of the bike by pinching the saddle with your tighs.

Really?????? I guess when I drop my saddle(around 4") for decents I'm doing it wrong. This thread has given me some amazing new info. I'm gonna need to learn to ride all over again.

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h28/chelboed/Bike/DSC02807.jpg

When "B" is in that position, it will be right in the middle of where the grip is. That entire section becomes unusable.



Maybe I ride funny but my index and middle fingers are always covering the brake. My ring and pinky finger are the ones on the grip and the shifter is not in the way. But that just could be habit from my motorcycle days.

You know you made me go take this pic and upload it, right? Sorry they aren't the greatest and excuse my warehouse hands. :o

Here's the set up

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o286/Flycrow/CIMG1104.jpg

And here's my finger position. My middle finger does the work while my index rests but is there in case I need to feel more secure.

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o286/Flycrow/CIMG1105.jpg

Wait....you don't set the suspension setting based on terrain? I'm a real lightweight. I wish I could lock it out. I currently have it on the hardest setting and it's still annoying when I pedal out of the saddle.



You don't need lockout. Your fork has TPC damping with a wide range of compression damping adjustment. You can fine tune it to filter out the pedal bob while still allowing the fork to move over rough terrain. Getting it set up correctly is covered in the I-don't-need-the-service-manual-because-I'm-riding-it,-not-overhauling-it manual.

Also, the compression damping won't work if the oil level in the damper isn't correct. Can you guess where to find this information?

How are your shifter/brake lever positioned?


http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a10/Zanetti7/Yeti015m1.jpg

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s200/dwr_photos/Toys/cockpit_1_1.jpg


http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s200/dwr_photos/Toys/IMG_1751_1_1.jpg

Maybe I ride funny but my index and middle fingers are always covering the brake. My ring and pinky finger are the ones on the grip and the shifter is not in the way. But that just could be habit from my motorcycle days.

I do the same thing...

and i rode/raced dirt bike for alot of years...

Ok, saddle position question. How do you guys determine the proper fore/aft position of the saddle?

I asked before, but do you guys use KOPS as a starting point or is there some other saddle fore/aft guideline?

Yes, I use KOPS


I do the same thing...

and i rode/raced dirt bike for alot of years...

Oh cool. So I'm NOT weird.....just a tomboy. :p

Really?????? I guess when I drop my saddle(around 4") for decents I'm doing it wrong. This thread has given me some amazing new info. I'm gonna need to learn to ride all over again.

I'm not gonna be stopping to drop my seat height. My group would leave me in the dust. And why would you need to lower the seat if you're gonna be standing on the pedals anyway ?

Maybe I ride funny but my index and middle fingers are always covering the brake. My ring and pinky finger are the ones on the grip and the shifter is not in the way. But that just could be habit from my motorcycle days.

No motorcycling days here and I cover the brake too. Just with my index finger though. All shifting is done with my thumb. Shifter's not in the way of anything, even when I do fist the grips.

Bike is in the garage right now and don't feel like going out, but I have an old picture to make do with:
http://i28.tinypic.com/9ll4w2.jpg

My bars are above my saddle on all my mountain bikes. No quick release, no GD/Joplin/Speedball, and taking out the bike tool is a pain in the butt, so unless we're talking about a really long descent, the saddle goes in the happy medium position where I can still sit and pedal but it stays semi out of the way on descents. If the ascent is so steep that I'm starting to loop out because my weight is too far back, I probably shouldn't be in the saddle no matter how high or low it is anyway. I always was told to keep my weight over the bottom bracket anyway, and you can't always do that with your butt in the saddle.

As for your suspension, find a setting that works and keep it there. Will it bob a little when you stand up and hammer? Sure, but so will the newest, most efficient model with ProPedal too. It's a small amount of inefficiency though in return for a lot of pros with having suspension though.


I think I found the problem. I think the grips I have are too small. The grips barely fit my hand.

All can be solved with ODI Yetis. Or if your hands are really big, check out ODI Rogues.

Ooh, and you said something about flying over the bars when you brake. Get behind the saddle when you brake, like you would if you were going downhill.

Basic rule is shoulder width. Front brake is left hand.

Why are the gals mostly answering you?

Why is that ddac?

You can run the bars as wide or as narrow as you like, depends on rider preference and discipline of riding.

I don't cut my bars so I leave them wide and being 6'1" I run a 50mm stem with 0 degrees of rise and a mid-rise bar.

I like the reach how it is, so I probably should cut the tube. It's been that way for a while. I just haven't gotten around to cutting it. I'm sort of hesitant to cut it now though, because depending on what bikes I've been riding, I end up playing around with stuff on that bike. My main ride before that bike was an XC hardtail, so when I first got it, the saddle was super high, there was another spacer underneath the stem, and the stem was flipped. After I rode it a while, I pointed the stem up. I've been riding my DJ a lot lately though, so the saddle on the one in the picture got dropped and the stem moved up a spacer. I also came reaaally close to putting platforms on there...had them on for a ride and changed my mind though.

My bars are pretty wide. I'm pretty sure they're wider than shoulder width. That's just my personal preference though. Leave them long until you figure out how wide your grip is.

Dan went to bed but here's the most recent pic of his bike. Shows angle and height of saddle to bars.

http://i423.photobucket.com/albums/pp313/dkasper0/100_1628.jpg

Okay I'm going to bed now. Have a good night! *waves*

I just find it pretty amazing how non-standard mtn biking is.

Ha, I've been reading this thread because I'm going out to some trails tomorrow for the first time on my brother's Hardrock. I come from a road background, too, and this whole forum is backwards from the road forum. We're all kind of a bunch of mathematical mean-spirited non-helpful type over there.

On the other hand, this forum has been super helpful and not full of ranting or whining or flaming. So there you have it MTB forum. You win.

Here's a tissue, you may want to wipe that little brown spot off....

On a serious note, the guys/girls who posted on this thread have been extremely helpful. You're right....the roadie forums are full of anal types where-as everyone seems pretty chill here.

Siu, that's not fair....that's a real mountain bike. I'm talking about a mountain bike that you can ride TO the trails and ON the trails.

Cdot, report back and let me know how it went....especially the mistakes! The only "trails" I have around me is a little dirt patch that goes alongside the main road in a public park.

looks more like something used for dirt jumping...

Define "Real mountain bike" Are you saying your M2 isnt a real bike now?

I'm lost now.



I have my seat on my Kona slid almost the whole way back, so my weight is shifted farther back.

I'm not gonna be stopping to drop my seat height. My group would leave me in the dust. And why would you need to lower the seat if you're gonna be standing on the pedals anyway ?

Wow.................

Yes...Dan uses his more at the BMX track and the like.

Mine is not a "real mountain bike" b/c it's not from a mfgr who SPECIALIZED in marketing hype...but here's my backside:frontside ratio for "trail riding":
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h28/chelboed/Bike/DSC03534.jpg

And here's how I rolled for "Aggro-Gnar'ing":
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h28/chelboed/Bike/DSC03133-1.jpg

Yes...Dan uses his more at the BMX track and the like.



He goes sometimes but the majority of the time he uses it on the trail. Either that or the BMX track has lots of rocks, roots and dirt and bushes and stuff. :p

Awesome setback seatpost! How did you determine that you needed one? Why not use a regular seatpost and pull the saddle all the way back?

There are a few things that really made a good impression on me regarding MTB componentry:
Thomson Seatposts (Elite, not masterpiece)
Shimano HT2 cranksets
XT drivetrains
Hope Hubs (with EX5.1d rims)
Fox 32 forks
ODI lock-on grips
Easton Riser bars
WTB Rocket V team saddles.


The reason I don't go straight with my saddle slammed back is because I've bent saddle rails in the past from poor landings. If I move the saddle rearward, it gives me more leverage to bend my Titanium rails. With it centered as pictured...there's less chance of me ruining a $110 saddle. The saddle was a gift from my wife.

What? Dan's setup isn't good for riding to the trails and on the trails? But...but...I ride this one to trails and on trails sometimes! Does that mean one of these times it's going to explode on me???
http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs091.snc1/4657_544756905669_3801505_32501207_4784989_n.jpg

Seriously though, I think Siu was just trying to underline the point that one person's perfect setting on their perfect bike isn't perfect, or even good, for another person. There are plenty of mountain bikers who ride bikes that would make a roadie who lives and dies by the Serotta fitting bike have a heart attack, because they like smaller, more playful bikes. That bike in the picture up there actually has 24" wheels. When I bought my bike (not this one, the one in the handlebar picture), I asked a million questions at the store, and the guys made a few adjustments and then told me to tweak it as I rode it. Just ride and make adjustments when you figure out what you like.

Actually, speaking of Dan's bike, what kind of frame is that?

I'm primarily a roadie (due to the sh*tty trails here - I have to drive to Santa Cruz if I want to do any MTB'ing), but here are my past and present MTBs. Same rider different set-up.

RL Monocog
http://hphotos-snc1.fbcdn.net/hs187.snc1/6248_1140931136586_1626676832_350825_4386955_n.jpg

Specialized Enduro (I think I took this right when I bought it)
http://hphotos-snc1.fbcdn.net/hs187.snc1/6248_1140933016633_1626676832_350832_5621699_n.jpg

Specialized Big Hit
http://hphotos-snc1.fbcdn.net/hs187.snc1/6248_1140931096585_1626676832_350824_7736749_n.jpg

Giant STP SS
http://hphotos-snc1.fbcdn.net/hs167.snc1/6248_1140930616573_1626676832_350823_5827278_n.jpg

My current bike - Motobecane Outcast 29'er SS
http://hphotos-snc1.fbcdn.net/hs187.snc1/6248_1140931176587_1626676832_350826_5525380_n.jpg

http://hphotos-snc1.fbcdn.net/hs167.snc1/6248_1138881805354_1626676832_344864_4654445_n.jpg

So, dude... seriously: Set it up the way that feels right. Unlike the roadies, people won't make fun of you if your seatpost is low or if you're riding platform pedals. Just move to the side when the downhill riders are railing through. And if you REALLY NEED to get proper leg extension on your 8 mi. ride to the trails, get a hydraulic seat post. However, I see people ride 10-15 mi. to the trails + climb on 50 lb. downhill bikes with full face helmets and body armor. HTFU.

Just for fun, here's my BMX bike.

http://hphotos-snc1.fbcdn.net/hs001.snc1/4143_1102856104734_1626676832_237863_5103445_n.jpg

Z, what if your local trail was 8-10 miles away? I assume you would have to raise that seatpost to get proper leg extension, no? If you ride the entire way standing up, you're the freaking man!

And if I don't, can I be the freaking woman? :p

If there's somewhere I want to ride that bike that's 8-10 miles away, it goes in my car. Actually, the only time that bike goes on actual trails is when I'm riding an easy-ish trail with not a ton of climbing with someone who doesn't bike much and I want to force myself to ride out of the saddle for practice. Other than that, it's a dirt jump and urban bike, and that *is* my saddle height on the road. That seatpost doesn't go high enough for me to get anywhere near proper leg extension...even fully extended, I look like a clown, and I'd likely need a telescopic post if I wanted to sit. So since it doesn't get used unless I'm resting, I keep it slammed and out of the way. Even with my XC bike though, if a trail is 8-10 miles away, it still most likely goes in my car. Most likely the trail itself is only 8-10 miles, and I'm way too lazy to want to ride double the distance of the trail on the road. Plus I like to save my tire tread for the trail. If it's that much of a big deal, ride it high for the road and then lower it and inch or two so it's not in your way as much. Or if you have money to burn, check out the Specialized Command Post. It's got three settings that you can adjust on the fly without ever leaving the saddle...full height that you could set to your road height, slightly lower that you could use for general trail riding, and all the way down for descending. Not sure how many settings the Gravity Dropper, Kind Shock, and Joplin have, but they're all pretty pricey. A lot cheaper to get off the bike and adjust or to find a happy medium setting.

Dion, that's a lot of mountain bikes for a roadie! And some nice ones too. Dare I ask how many road bikes you have?

Z, what if your local trail was 8-10 miles away? I assume you would have to raise that seatpost to get proper leg extension, no? If you ride the entire way standing up, you're the freaking man!

Ok, so my question actually is.....how do you set your saddle position when you're riding on the road....not how you set the saddle when you're on the trails.

I've seen instructional YouTube videos where they tell you to lower the saddle a bit when you get to the trails because you'll be spending most of your time out of the saddle anyways.

So much conflict here. So do you lower the saddle in the trails or do you just leave it in one position and ride for the rest of your life in that position (like a road bike)?

The reason all mountain bikes come with QR seatposts, is that you can, and do, change your seat height depending on the situation. So before you leave, set the height for pedaling efficiency. When you get to the trail, and depending on what the trail is like, move it down slightly. If you're on a flat trail doing mostly XC type riding, you can leave it pretty high. If you're doing more downhill, or have gnarlier drop offs and technical sections, set it down lower so you can get your center of mass behind the saddle. In this position, you can also control your bike by pushing on your saddle nose with your thighs.