Mountain Biking - Think I need a fork upgrade?

I come VERY close to bottoming out my DJ II's on a small jump I built. I think I might need a fork upgrade. I'm looking at a Marzocchi Jr.T. The cheaper of the double crowns i've looked at. I just need a stiffer fork. Before I buy i'm planning on paying off my current bike. Also i'm planning on using my shock pump to raise the pressure inside. How much should I raise it to. There Marzocchi Dirt Jumper II's. Any ideas?

I'm looking at the Jr.T because I need a stiffer fork. Not necessarily because I want more travel.

Have you check the springs? Heavier weight oil?

Your thinking is wrong. The JrT is not a stiffer fork (it is laterally but not spring load wise). If anything it is more plush and works with more negative travel. The djer with the correct spring, preload and oil is just about the stiffest fork on the market. Also the dj2 you can adjust rebound, set that a titch higher.

Sounds like you just haven't taken the time to play with your current fork OR are looking for any excuse to get a dual crown fork ;)

Check out Marz' recommendations for your fork. They have online manuals with recommended pressures based on rider weight. Have you checked that yet?

-MOab

Nope not yet, i probably should. The Marzocchi Owners Manual doesn't have the DJ II in it.

I promise it does. I have the exact fork and just finished reading it a few days ago. It doesn't mention the djer directly but you can get what type of components the fork uses and then at the end of the manul it has detailed pictures about how to adjust those components (internal rebound, air preload, oil etc...) You probably have medium springs, 7.5 wt oil. and the proload set to like 1 click. If you increase the springs, you won't bottom it out. But really medium springs suit 150 to 180ish (I think that is the range) If you are heavier you need to invest in a heavier spring weight.

Also is it clunking or are you really getting all the travel out of it. If you when you do a landing the forks clunks loudly and turns into a rigid for a sec, you are bottoming it. If the travel just stops, it is more likely the damping system at its worst. Too much oil trying to force through the baby hole and basically stopping dead. Be sure you are actually bottoming it out as the JrT has the exact same crappy charateristics.

I am 270 and don't bottom out a medium sprung djer, unless i nose a landing. (I own both forks) Keep in mind Marz has plush feeling forks. To compare to any other company will produce skewed results. Most people who ride rockshoxx, fox etc don't like how marz feel because of how soft they feel at the top of the travel...

It does not clunk, but there is always dirt/mud (very little bits) caught on the stanchion and it gets pushed up as the fork compresses. And much like the ocean with seaweed it shows where the dirt/mud was pushed to and its about 1/2" from the top of the fork.


I'm big for my size. About 5' 4" and 180-190lbs. :(

Get the stiffer springs. Is your set for 4 or 5 in travel?

Currently I have the same DJ2 you guys are talking about (mines a 03' 130mm). Just got it and went for the first ride a couple days ago. Anyways, I'm also big at 280lbs, but I haven't bottomed out the fork..yet. They are the softest/plushest/squishiess fork I ever rode. Going down stairs, they tend to want to nose dive down waaaaay to much, if I so much as think of touching the brake, its all over. They pack up tight, and then stay there (not bottoming though). Anyways, I decided to find some springs for these, the only ones I found so far, were at airbomb.com, they are the "130mm X-heavy" springs (Item#FK9850). I'd like to try these out, but neither marzocchi or airbomb have gotten back to me on them. Might just go ahead and order em' tonight. I haven't played with the air, or made any adjustments yet (air pump I have won't fit inside onto the schrader valve, and any disassembly wouldn't fly inside my apartment with my girl)

Mael, are you running the stock medium spring(s), or did you upgrade to a different one?

They nose dive because there is no damping system (I know it says ssv but really it is a spring, oil and a pumping rod with a tiny hole in it). Imagine the first drop drops the suspension a quarter of an inch (just a theoretical number) the dampng is too poor to allow it to rebound quickly enough for the second bump, dropping the suspension another quarter of an inch. Over a large number of HIGH speed bumps your fork goes from 5 in to nothing. With the dj2 there is a rebound adjuster and with playing with the oil (there is another mod but that requires a drill and lots of experience) you can defeat this deficiency to some degree, but really, it will never feel as good as say a Z1 Fr ;)...

Those are the right springs as long as you have your fork in 130mm mode.

They nose dive because there is no damping system (I know it says ssv but really it is a spring, oil and a pumping rod with a tiny hole in it). Imagine the first drop drops the suspension a quarter of an inch (just a theoretical number) the dampng is too poor to allow it to rebound quickly enough for the second bump, dropping the suspension another quarter of an inch. Over a large number of HIGH speed bumps your fork goes from 5 in to nothing. With the dj2 there is a rebound adjuster and with playing with the oil (there is another mod but that requires a drill and lots of experience) you can defeat this deficiency to some degree, but really, it will never feel as good as say a Z1 Fr ;)...

Those are the right springs as long as you have your fork in 130mm mode.

Are you saying the right springs are the mediums? Or the x-firms?

Depends on your weight. Xstiff are for 220+ I think.

But a dj2 comes in 2 modes. 4 in and 5 in. If your fork isn't in 5in mode those spring may not work

Depends on your weight. Xstiff are for 220+ I think.

But a dj2 comes in 2 modes. 4 in and 5 in. If your fork isn't in 5in mode those spring may not work
I do have the 5" setup (130mm), and I weigh 280 at the moment.

Sorry I did read that. Yes get the extra stiff...for sure. If you don't plan to put them in yourself I would recommend getting a shop to order them for you.

Sorry I did read that. Yes get the extra stiff...for sure. If you don't plan to put them in yourself I would recommend getting a shop to order them for you.

I'm sure I could put them in, but I don't have a space for it, so I may give the shop down the road a call for a price quote. How about the oil weight by the way? You think a lighter oil would work better for the rebound stickyness? I don't want to change to much at one time.

Definately don't change to much. They should be able to leave the oil in there (maybe top it up. 7.5 is standard for marz I believe.

You have any idea of what kind of time it takes to pull this fork apart?(off the bike already). I'd guess 10minutes tops to have it dissassembled. I need to read thru the Marz manual (can't right now, at work) and see what it takes. If I could leave the oil inside and pull it apart fairly quickly and easily, maybe I'll just do it myself. hmmm

I did mine in my living room......

but it was vinyl flooring, not carpet. :D

it's not hard to do, if your just swaping out the top springs you just open the top of the fork blade using a socket (19mm?) and then there is a flat washer w/ a hole in the center of it, pull that out and then grab the spring.

if your just doing that, slowly pull the spring out so you don't get oil all over the place. then replace w/ the other spring. maybe add a tad more oil to replace what you lost and put the washer back and screw the top thing back on.

when I did mine I reduced the travel from 5 to 4 so I had to completely take them apart. much more of a mess....

mine are DJ II's (I think that's what y'all are talking about..)

I did mine in my living room......

but it was vinyl flooring, not carpet. :D

it's not hard to do, if your just swaping out the top springs you just open the top of the fork blade using a socket (19mm?) and then there is a flat washer w/ a hole in the center of it, pull that out and then grab the spring.

if your just doing that, slowly pull the spring out so you don't get oil all over the place. then replace w/ the other spring. maybe add a tad more oil to replace what you lost and put the washer back and screw the top thing back on.

when I did mine I reduced the travel from 5 to 4 so I had to completely take them apart. much more of a mess....

mine are DJ II's (I think that's what y'all are talking about..)

Yeah I have the DJ2 also. The spring kit seems to have top and bottom springs in it. I would probably need to replace both sets on both sides. I have hardwood floors in my place, but somehow I don't think my girl is going to like where I'm going with this. What kind/weight of oil did you refill with after the full teardown? And what springs are you running?

Yeah I have the DJ2 also. The spring kit seems to have top and bottom springs in it. I would probably need to replace both sets on both sides. I have hardwood floors in my place, but somehow I don't think my girl is going to like where I'm going with this. What kind/weight of oil did you refill with after the full teardown? And what springs are you running?


I have the green springs. I don't know if they are the strongest ones or not, I TRIED to get the strongest ones and this is what I got.

I got oil from the motocycle shop, don't remember what brand but it's 10 weight.

I didn't even take the forks out of my bike, so that made it a bit more of a pain in the butt as I couldn't drain them very well without getting oil everywhere. if you've taken them off your bike, I would just drain the oil into a big bowl in the kitchen or someplace. then tear them apart on an old newspaper.

oh yea, I only weight 145 and I can pretty much bottom these things out, it seems.

I weigh almost double your weight and I'm not bottoming yet?
What tools did you use to disassemble them? someone said a 19mm socket, other then that, just regular tools? No special tools?

no special tools.

I may be wrong about 19mm but I know it was pretty big.

other then that, I know I don't own anything special so it was only normal sockets. maybe a deep walled socket(for the lowers) but that's it. a screwdriver and plyers probably. I did mine over a year ago.....

I had NO IDEA what the insides where like and had no problems once I opened them up. very user friendly.

I think the top caps are like a 22mm. I know I had to go buy a socket for it. Changing out the spings is EASY. Just remove the top caps, pull the old springs out, let the oil drain off them, then put the new ones in. 15 mins. start to finish.

And Yes, the Green are the Xtra Heavies.

L8R

I think the top caps are like a 22mm. I know I had to go buy a socket for it. Changing out the spings is EASY. Just remove the top caps, pull the old springs out, let the oil drain off them, then put the new ones in. 15 mins. start to finish.

And Yes, the Green are the Xtra Heavies.

L8R

Isn't there two sets of springs in there? (two springs in each side I mean). If so, can you change both that way, or is it going to require some more disaseembly?

I've got a set of Z-1's, and mine are one spring.

L8R

Try popping about 15-20 PSI into that fork leg bro.

When I had my DJ-II on my BH-Comp, 15 PSI felt like WOOD.

Try that, and if not that... change your oil to 10wt Golden Spectro.

-Matt

Try popping about 15-20 PSI into that fork leg bro.

When I had my DJ-II on my BH-Comp, 15 PSI felt like WOOD.

Try that, and if not that... change your oil to 10wt Golden Spectro.

-Matt

How much do you weigh? And did you run 15psi in both legs, or just one?
About the oil weight, I'm not sure if I should go to a heavier weight or not. When I go down stairs, these forks pack up pretty tight and don't rebound untill your finished.

or you could buy my 04 z150 fr :D

How much?

I weigh 155 Lbs. I ran 10-12 Psi when I had my fork... but for anything but drops I ran NO air. (In the right leg only).

Only the right leg takes air, if I remember correctly.

-Matt

make me a offer maelstrom theree is no scratches on it just bought htis month onyl 1 nick on the crown and i live pretty close to you mael strom

I weigh 155 Lbs. I ran 10-12 Psi when I had my fork... but for anything but drops I ran NO air. (In the right leg only).

Only the right leg takes air, if I remember correctly.

-Matt

Do you have the '04 DJ II's? Because both legs have the shock pump nozzle.(I think thats what its called)

Do you have the '04 DJ II's? Because both legs have the shock pump nozzle.(I think thats what its called)

I have the 03' DJ2's. They have a schrader valve on top of each leg, under a plastic screw on cap (the valve is slightly recessed into the leg, so I can't get my regular airpump in there)(my pump has the dual tip for schrader and presta's). They look just like a regular tube type schrader valve though, not like what the online manuals and reg. air forks use.

ITs air preload. And the manual does mention it.

I weigh 155 Lbs. I ran 10-12 Psi when I had my fork... but for anything but drops I ran NO air. (In the right leg only).

Only the right leg takes air, if I remember correctly.

-Matt

I'm a monster compared to you, at 280lbs, I pretty much overwelm the stock springs. I think I'm going to go ahead and order the X-Firm springs (found some for 32 clams) and put them in myself. After that, going to try about 10-15psi in one/both legs and just fiddle around untill I find my happy place.

ITs air preload. And the manual does mention it.

The manual doesn't show the same type of valve. They say you should use a special pump for they're forks (suprise suprise). Basically everything applies as they were the same, just have different style air inlets is all.

Same as all forks with that valve. Its a special sensative pump. And really if you have a pump wth a small enough end it will fit. And it is in the manual. Check section 5.1.4 and cross check your fork for the type of preload. The first pic. It isn't mentioned directly but inclusive of other external preload.

Same as all forks with that valve. Its a special sensative pump. And really if you have a pump wth a small enough end it will fit. And it is in the manual. Check section 5.1.4 and cross check your fork for the type of preload. The first pic. It isn't mentioned directly but inclusive of other external preload.

The 5.4 pic (B) is only for externally adjustable forks. Mine is only internally adjustable (except air of course). But I see what your saying.

wait so I just screw in the pump and pump a leg up to 12 psi? which leg?

Both legs have the preload.

Wonder, do you have the dj2? If so it is EXTERNAL air preload and INTERNAL rebound. Preload is BOTH legs and rebound is left leg (I think hmmmm)...Where is there an internal preload, unless you are adding spacers....

BTW this is strictly for a dh2 2004...you can buy the air preload as an aftermarket upgrade though :)

I'll ask the LBS for some advice when I go in to get some gloves some time.

Both legs have the preload.

Wonder, do you have the dj2? If so it is EXTERNAL air preload and INTERNAL rebound. Preload is BOTH legs and rebound is left leg (I think hmmmm)...Where is there an internal preload, unless you are adding spacers....

Yes I have the 03' DJ2, I confused the adjustments you were talking about. I thought you were saying they had External rebound, AND External air. The caps on the bottom of the fork tube aren't adjustable on a DJ2 like the 5.4 (B) pic in the manual suggests (pic caption MZ001015). The internal adjustments I was talking about is picture 5.5 (MZ001017) Internal SSV Rebound. Think I just got discombobulated somewhere.

Discombobulated hahahaa...

I went ahead and ordered the springs for my DJ2 last night, so when they get here, and I get em installed, I'll let you fellas know how they work out.
By the way, on the 6.2, Table 2-Positive air pressure chart. First off, is "bar" a measurement of air pressure? (i.e. psi?).. and second, it looks like they say to run something between 52-65psi for heavy weights (210-220lbs, so something closer to 65psi for a rider of my size @280). That seems like enough pressure you wouldn't even need a coil in there. Seems abit heavy on the air for a fork that has coils.