Mountain Biking - RC's take on the XX

discuss
http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=114361&d=1250275207

Whatever.........more hype.

I'm thinking 1x10 could be cool...but I'm still sold on the hype surrounding the Hammerschmidt with a SS rear cog. 1x2 gearbox.

2x10 or 3x9 is still a lot of shifting if you are searching for the super climb gear. i agree with ed, if the complaint is the derailleur then why not take one out? instead of having a 4x t outer ring just make it say 38 and make the rear cassette like 11-30 or 26. seems funny to hype up 7 less gear choices.

How bout simplifying the Rohloff 14spd rear hub and getting rid of the under drive crap that is supposedly so noisy and power draining. (basically a Sturmey that's Gnar-rated) Run that with a Hammerschmidt up front. and you got yourself an internal 2x7. No extra dishing = stronger wheel. Proper chainline...belt drive even? You'd prob. drop alot of weight with those extra 7 gears being gone in the Rohloff...bringing it back down to a normal weight for a drivetrain with the simplicity and ease of a drivetrain you can shift front or rear any time under any power load in any mucky/crappy condition.

Any takers?

How bout simplifying the Rohloff 14spd rear hub and getting rid of the under drive crap that is supposedly so noisy and power draining. Run that with a Hammerschmidt up front. and you got yourself an internal 2x7.

Any takers?

Well it will only cost $2000 for the drivetrain alone... but it would be GREAT!

Naaahhhh...you could get it as a new package. Rohloff builds the 7spd hub licensed to SRAM. Much less complicated b/c it's only 7spd.

So instead of a $1300 hub, you got a $650 hub with a $600 crankset. $1250 drivetrain including crankset that should inherently last 100,000 miles or so. Throw in the licensed belt drive to combat sand and gear wear.

If you think about it...
PG990 cassette on sale is around $70
PC971 chain $20
XT crankset $250
Good hub $190

Add all that up and the comparison is...umm...well, still depressing:lol:

sounds good to me.

I want a 4x9. 36 heavenly options.

^lol, 4x9.

why not 4x10?




IDK... i just know the Front Derailleur on the Kona is really pissing me off lol. The problem is I feel I need all 3 up front because of the constant change in terrain.

I was recently considering upgrading my bike with an 8 speed drivetrain to 9 speed. It was going to cost me about $100. Then I stopped for a second, and thought about the different ratios I use. I essentially use only 3 of my sprockets in the back, and leave it in the middle up front. Adding another gear for $100 is silly. Instead, I'm just getting new 8 speed shifters to replace my crappy old ones for about $27, and saving the rest of the money for a new fork down the line.
The only positive that I can see with the XX system is the compatibility with the road group. I know plenty of guys who would like to run the larger cassette with an XX RD on their road bikes for tough mountain climbs.

How bout simplifying the Rohloff 14spd rear hub and getting rid of the under drive crap that is supposedly so noisy and power draining. (basically a Sturmey that's Gnar-rated) Run that with a Hammerschmidt up front. and you got yourself an internal 2x7. No extra dishing = stronger wheel. Proper chainline...belt drive even? You'd prob. drop alot of weight with those extra 7 gears being gone in the Rohloff...bringing it back down to a normal weight for a drivetrain with the simplicity and ease of a drivetrain you can shift front or rear any time under any power load in any mucky/crappy condition.

Any takers?

so has this been done? I looked at that 7 speed hub and it has some interesting gearing... change a sprocket here or there to suit riding conditions and it looks pretty tight...

so does the internal crank set up... are we seeing the future? (probably only possible with CAD and modern machining techniques I presume...)

Great, 9 speed systems are sucky enough, now they're going for 10...We've regressed in my house. The boys ride single speeds and I ride an Alfine (I'm not allowed to shift when I ride with them). Is the problem that we don't have enough gears or too many?

IGH on holiday, the 9 speed chains were breaking all day long. Mr IGH was just cruising along with his Alfine:

Mr IGH is that a single up front?

so has this been done? I looked at that 7 speed hub and it has some interesting gearing... change a sprocket here or there to suit riding conditions and it looks pretty tight...

so does the internal crank set up... are we seeing the future? (probably only possible with CAD and modern machining techniques I presume...)

Has the simplified Rohloff been done? Or has a HammySturmey been done?

Far as I know...neither.


The only really cool thing I've seen done lately with the Hammy was the singlespeed 1x2 Hammerschmidt setup in last months MBA, I believe. Beautiful piece of XC work there. 2 very useable gears in a light and efficient package that will go most anywhere a "trail biker" needs to go.

Take it up a notch to the less efficient "big bikes". That's where you will need the extra few gears to get'em up those hills. Lose the Planetary under drive. Enter the Diet Rohloff. Rohloff Zero? Rohloff Lite?

Mr IGH is that a single up front?

Yes, I'm running 32x23 gives me a low of 21 inches and a high of 68 inches (29er wheel). I'm a spinner so I can make ~25mph pedaling, fast enough for me. I wouldn't mind a equivilent of 22x34 on a 26" wheel. that would take a 22x20 and I'd need a second ring up front (maybe a 36).

IMHO, Alfine has surpassed Rohloff. 1/5 the price, same low gears, lacks a little on the high end (gear-wise), shifts much better. My entire bike cost less than a Rohloff hub, what's the point? ~1-2% of all Rohloffs are defective out of the box (their number, not mine), IMHO, for $1600 large, the hub should be perfect.

IGH are great, no catching derailliuers on rocks, no filling a skinny 9 speed chain up with sand. I was replacing chains all the time before I switched myself and my boys over to single speed drivetrains. Now we just ride and enjoy. IMHO, if the next step is 10 speed, we're not really going in the right direction.

So...IGH...how much have you punished that Alfine? Do you think it's pretty tough?



I'm almost sold, dude.

I am riding an AL framed HARO at the moment and just got sent home from my spot because my FD got jacked and kept dropping chain.

I am 6'6" and 275 ATM... too much bottom flex... that Hammer looks like the schnizzle...

been looking at I believe SRAM has an 8 speed... 4lbs... 340% range of gears...

I am also almost sold... I can see it on a Karate Monkey, Hammer up front 8 speed in rear... no drive line worries at all...

+1dood...+1.

I was getting all... giddy... about getting a Hammerschmidt, and then, after about a week of excitement and preparing to order it - ISCG adapters do not work. Can you say let down?

The Alfine and the SRAM internal hubs. Both are great, but both are not meant for long term offroad use. Beef them up, give them some faster engagement, maybe a little more gear spread, give trigger and twist shifter options, with a simple double wheel tensioner system for running on rear suspension bikes, and provision to run six bolt or Center Lock rotors -not some other standard. They'd still come in likely lighter than, and still much more affordable than the Rohloff.

They would sell like mad.

Otherwise: wait, people really listen to anything RC has to say about the world of MTB?

The Alfine and the SRAM internal hubs. Both are great, but both are not meant for long term offroad use. Beef them up, give them some faster engagement, maybe a little more gear spread, give trigger and twist shifter options, with a simple double wheel tensioner system for running on rear suspension bikes, and provision to run six bolt or Center Lock rotors -not some other standard. They'd still come in likely lighter than, and still much more affordable than the Rohloff.

They would sell like mad.

Otherwise: wait, people really listen to anything RC has to say about the world of MTB?

http://www.ninerbikes.com/fly.aspx?layout=bikes&taxid=93 here the future comes... http://aebike.com/page.cfm?action=details&PageID=30&SKU=HU2520

$261.xx for the 9speed...

"The W.F.O. 9 went through exhaustive testing and refining, including a first for a 29er frame: a tapered headtube for increased front end stiffness and strength. We thought about all of the ways people might take advantage of having 5.5” of travel coupled with a 29” wheel, and we designed the W.F.O. 9 to handle them all. A custom S-bend hydroformed downtube allows the use of both coil and piggyback shocks, offset bottom linkage makes room for an ISCG mount, making this frame the first 29er to be compatible with the all new SRAM Hammerschmidt system and other chain guide systems and an optional 150mm rear spacing increases rear wheel strength and stiffness. Best of all, build it how you want. Order the W.F.O. 9 with 135 or 150 rear spacing and then choose from our shock options or order without a shock.

Whatever your needs, from aggressive all mountain to big hit, the W.F.O. 9 will keep you pinned all the way down some of the gnarliest terrain you can throw at it.

I am looking at building/buying a 29 and I think I am going to use the Hammerschmidt and SRAM hub... (they do have 6 bolt disc BTW)...

just because I can... at $261.xx I'll ride it til it explodes and get another...

no real adjustment... UBER ground clearance... 23" steel frame hardtail mmmm mmmmm I'll post pix when I'm done

$261? Where are you getting it?

$261? Where are you getting it?




http://aebike.com/page.cfm?action=details&PageID=30&SKU=HU2520

The Alfine and the SRAM internal hubs...not meant for long term offroad use....

In the case of the i-Motion 9, it isn't up to use off road. The Alfine can take it. I've been riding mine for a year in a variety of conditions, from easy XC to all-mountain drops. No issues while at the same time, the deraillieur bikes are having all sorts of problems. When I started rding it, I was ~270lbs out of the shower, now I'm ~220lbs, certainly that's stress, add in I'm running a 32x23 and it's way beyond what you'd expect it to survive.

If you go to the other mountain bike forum, you'll see all-mountain and downhill full suspension bikes running the Alfine for more than two years.

- Mud kills 9 speed systems, Alfine single speed chainline eats sticks and mud
- Sand kills 9 speed systems, Alfine single speed chainline grinds along with no issues
- 9 speed chains like to break under hard conditions. Go on a multi-day ride in tough conditions, the 9 speed chains start breaking. Does give an IGH rider a chance to rest while 9 speeders duke it out with a chaintool as sweat and bugs show up to help.
- Rock gardens bend deraliuers hangers, hello ghost shifting.

I have ridden mine through streams and shifted gears while completely submerged. No H2O intrusion of any kind.

No as many gears, not as many hassles, it's a trade-off.

Imotion...Weight 1900 g

I guess it's not too bad but it just shocked me there for a second:lol:

Imotion...Weight 1900 g

I guess it's not too bad but it just shocked me there for a second:lol:

It's not much for off-road, I tried it. Steps are nice compared to shimano, just can't stay adjusted. I put it on my commuter:

Imotion...Weight 1900 g

I guess it's not too bad but it just shocked me there for a second:lol:

Nuvinci:
Weight 4100 g

:lol:

Mr IGH that is where I am 270...

personally I don't care if it is 1900g (4.1 lbs)

i lose 50 more pounds it is like it weighs -46lbs :D

BTW I'm 40 and nowhere near LEET ... I'm looking at a bullet-proof-ness... and no maintenance... I'm lazy that way...

I'm the same way, I like my bikes strong so they don't break. Last fall my bike was 33lbs with the Alfine and suspension seat post. This summer it's -7 lbs, go figure ;)

Nuvinci: Weight 4100 g
They're trying to push it as a gearbox for small vehicles now. As bike gear system it's pig both weight and friction wise. Some are claiming is only 70% efficent, Alfine are ~95%. Derailluier with sandy chain...don't ask :eek:

Mr IGH what size/type of chain are you running?

3/32 KMC 510, ~$12 shipped