Classic & Vintage - Schwinn Paramount

I just bought a Schwinn Paramount, and i have been doing a bit of research, and i think i vastly underpaid for this bike. I have no idea what year it is, but i saw the same exact bike with a different saddle for 1200 bucks, I paid $25.
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e304/italian69baller/Photo15.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e304/italian69baller/Photo16.jpg

its got its scrapes, but it is a sweet bike. please help me with a bit of advise. im about to turn it into a fixie if i dont get advised to sell it and make a small fortune

I'm not 100% on this but I think thats not worth 1200, I know the sweet older ones are, but I really don't think that one is, I know its worth something, but not $1200.00!?

well, ive seen them for around 300-500 as well, so i assume there are different models of the Paramount...

If it's an early Waterford built model, it would fetch quite a bit. Even the later "series" models seem to fetch a few hundred, for what it's worth.

Check this out too see if its a Waterford:

http://www.waterfordbikes.com/site/company/para_dating.php

This seems to have the same decal set, which sounds to be from Waterford.

Tell you what, I'll give you $100 for it and I'll do the legwork. :-p


http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Schwinn-Paramount-Road-Bike_W0QQitemZ300338606708QQcmdZViewItemQQptZRoad_Bikes?hash=item45ed937274&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

An '86 Waterford Paramount frameset just went for less than $500.00 on ebay.

What kind of components are on it? Dura-ace?

If it is indeed a waterford paramount you should be able to get a lot of money for it. Is the seatpost down so low because that's the only way you can ride it?

Sell it to someone who will appreciate it with gears on it and it fits. And use the money to buy a nice real track bike (that fits you). Then everyone will be happy.

You're close to SF right? You could sell it on craigslist.

Schwinn's top of the line bike. You paid $25 for it? I have to say some people don't know the value of a Paramount! Its a sweet bike! ;):)

the seat is down becasue it is a bit too big for me, my dad literally slammed on the brakes in the middle of the road and bought it from a garage sale. i was thinking the same about selling it, but it is just a cool bike, i really like it. maybe a trade for a similar bike that is too small for someone :)

Yes, 25 dollars is a major bargin for any Paramount. As it was mentioned, there are big differences in between the many versions of the Paramount.

Condition is a big part of the value and is very important in the +1000 range. I am guessing you probably saw an earlier Paramount go for those prices. Still, it's a fine bike and worth a good chunk more than what you paid. How much? I have no idea myself.

There is a Paramount just like that selling in the bike shop down the street from me for 900 dollars. So you SCCCOOORREEEDD.

I saw one for sale near me for $800. this week. Too bad it's too big for you. If it's not the rght fit to ride then refurb it and sell it for top dollar. I almost had the bike I wanted shipped from CA and wound up driving 7 hours round trip to get another. Even if your market isn't hot for this bike - someone somewhere will want it. Be prepared to ship it too ...

Please don't turn this bike into a fixie!

If you need a frame for such pursuits and joys, I'm certain a C&Ver will gladly give you a more appropriate candidate and throw in a sweet powder coating in the color of your choice, plus pay you a very nice profit on your bargain find. Be patience and you will be awarded with what you desire. Thanks!

How about providing a link to where a Paramount just like that one sold for $1200? That would be a new benchmark for sure.

$300 to $500 bike, depending on condition. I passed on one for $375 in really good condition.

what is the serial # on the bottom bracket? what are the components and their condition? Is the frame scratched, dinged, chipped, straight,etc. All this helps determine value.

Late 1980s Paramounts as well as other high quality bikes seem to sell for fairly bargain level prices - that is, considering the high overall quality. They are too new to be considered serious "collectibles" by many people. And, they lack the fancy old lugwork and flashy chromed head lugs which many people seem to love. So, they are sort of lost in a vast sea among many other good quality imported steel racing bikes of the period.

Paramount was having tough times justifying their top level prices and sales were falling. They were struggling to change their racing image during the PDG (Paramount Design Group) era. Unfortunately, this was a period when much lighter weight aluminum and titanium racing bikes were gaining recognition in serious racing circles. So, they were mainly appreciated by die hard, often nostalgic, Schwinn fans. I think the plain looking style was an attempt to simulate the plainer looking Italian racing bikes (Masi and such) which were noticed as having much better sales success - at least during the first half of the 1980s.

The components on the Paramount were still top quality, so if those are still on the bike they would be a definite asset and may even be more valuable parted-out for someone's recent era restoration of another bike. Don't get me wrong, the framesets were still fine quality and well made. So, a good choice for someone content with a heavier weight racing bike... But, who is (or was) seriously looking for a heavy bike with racing geometry? A tough period for steel racing bikes - perhaps a last ditch hope at the end of the Steel Era.:(

Steel bikes are making a comeback today. BUT... they are a very different style and a different geometry - generally bikes which are used for more general purpose recreational riding, rather than the short wheelbase racing style bikes. Most Rivendell bikes would be typical examples of this.

Apart from modern multi-thousand dollar custom built bikes, high-end steel bikes of the 1970s and earlier are holding their value or even appreciating. For fixed gear conversions, any thoroughly cheap bargain finds which can then be pimped out with flashy colors from a nice cheap powder-coat seems to be the general preference. So I think the Paramount would not be a very desirable choice for cashing in on this trend.

Personally, I'd say first go ahead and find out the date from the Waterford website... then place the bike on eBay or Craigs List. And be happy if you get a quick $500... which is still 20 times! what was paid for the bike. And this should definitely finance you a top rate completely new fixed gear/single speed bike actually made for and better suited to that intended purpose. :thumb:

Good Luck!

$25 is a steal no matter what paramount it is

it was mad in may of 1985 and it is the 80th bike made, the rear wheel needs trueing and a new tire, but it had dura-ace cranks, brakes, shift levers on the frame, gears, and everything else that isnt on the frame, accept the seat. it is too big for me so i am going to post it up for sale.

http://www.schwinnparamountfactory.com/bikes.htm
scroll almost all the way down to the bottom.

Paramount was having tough times justifying their top level prices and sales were falling. They were struggling to change their racing image during the PDG (Paramount Design Group) era. Unfortunately, this was a period when much lighter weight aluminum and titanium racing bikes were gaining recognition in serious racing circles. So, they were mainly appreciated by die hard, often nostalgic, Schwinn fans. I think the plain looking style was an attempt to simulate the plainer looking Italian racing bikes (Masi and such) which were noticed as having much better sales success - at least during the first half of the 1980s.


I really respect your opinion and historical knowledge. But I'm having a little trouble making this add up. Steel bikes were prevalent in the pro peloton well into the 1990's. Titanium and carbon-fiber were becoming more common, yes, but were still not "everyday wear" for most pros or amateurs. I think the OS frames were pretty up-to-snuff as serious racing tools - they were very stiff for one thing. Paramounts were also used prominently by domestic pro squads - first Schwinn-Icy Hot and then the Wheaties Schwinn team (and by a young Lance Armstrong). Aluminum frames didn't become dominant in the pro - or other - ranks until Paramount had become Waterford, AFAIK. If Schwinn was fighting for market share for the Paramount, they were doing it for the most part against other steel designs. And I believe the Paramounts actually sold pretty well - they created enough demand for Schwinn to outsource production of some of the frames. (I'd love to own a Paramount frame built with Reynolds 753 OS).

Awhile back there was an inquiry in the appraisal section in regards to a 93/4-ish Paramount with full Dura Ace STI. It sold for $1200 on Ebay.

In general full Dura Ace bikes start in the $450 area and go from there. I cant make out many detaisl but the OP's bike has cheap pedals, no DA dust caps and non-DA brake levers and its BIG. Realisticly its a $500-700 bike.

what is an OP bike, sorry for total noob question, but just getting into this. i dont want to rip someone off, but id like to get what the bike is worth, that way someone who really wants the bike will get it too.

OP, I hate you! :mad:

How's that for "what's it worth"?

OP = Original Poster Its usualy the person who started the thread, in this particular instance OP = apexwagon

Schwinn's top of the line bike. You paid $25 for it? I have to say some people don't know the value of a Paramount! Its a sweet bike! ;):)

No doubt it's way more than a deal at $25.00, but I'll live the rest of my life in the deepest darkest corner of satans bowels if that Paramount is worth $1200.00! BTW, some people do know about Schwinn Paramounts, at least more than some people. :innocent:

How about providing a link to where a Paramount just like that one sold for $1200? That would be a new benchmark for sure.

$300 to $500 bike, depending on condition. I passed on one for $375 in really good condition.

http://www.bikeforums.net/showpost.php?p=8229695&postcount=25

I either missed it or can't read right (Nebraska Public Schools)

did he ever say what size it is?

it looks to be at least 62cm...

I think Miamijim has it about right. On Ebay, it would probably fetch about $400-600. If it is an 85, that is an earlier, desirable year - but it is really big, and it is not all Dura-Ace from what we can tell. You might get more for it if you tear it down and sell the parts and frame separately.

http://www.bikeforums.net/showpost.php?p=8229695&postcount=25

Whew! Glad I said $1200! :lol:

Whew! Glad I said $1200! :lol:

Keep in mind that the bike in the link is stunning, its a very desireable size and it has STI levers.

http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=92049&d=1232050357

what is an OP bike, sorry for total noob question, but just getting into this. i dont want to rip someone off, but id like to get what the bike is worth, that way someone who really wants the bike will get it too.

"OP" means "original poster," i.e. you, in this case.

I agree with Pastorbob - please do not fixie-ize that frame. At a minimum, under no circumstances hack off anything from the frame. Please, for the love of Ignaz, do nothing to that frame that cannot be undone.

To get a better idea of what you have, find the serial number and then check out this page of the Waterford website: http://waterfordbikes.com/now/home.php?newstype=paramountdating. That should at least give you the month and year it was built.

Paramounts, for most and perhaps all of their existence, were made separately from the rest of Schwinn's bike production. Even when Paramounts were made in the same Chicago factory as most other Schwinns, they were made in a separate fenced-off enclosure, known as The Cage. Eventually (meaning the late 1980's or thereabouts), Paramount production moved to its own home in Waterford, Wisconsin. (There were also other Paramounts, called "Paramount PDG's," that were not built in Waterford but rather Taiwan, I think, which are fine frames but do not have the cache of a Waterford-built Paramount or the older, Chicago-built ones.) Finally, the Paramount works were spun off from Schwinn to become Waterford Precision Cycles USA, which is completely independent from Schwinn or any other builder. Today's Waterfords are the direct lineal descendants of the Paramounts of yore (including yours) and they are the keepers of the Paramount flame. In fact, Richard Schwinn, the direct descendant of founder Ignaz Schwinn, is one of the shakers and movers at Waterford.

I may have a detail or two wrong here (if so, I'm sure someone will correct me) but I'm confident that I have been accurate enough to give a fair-to-middlin' start on your Paramount education. There are a number of folks who are very into these fine bikes, adn in my experience they are very giving of their time and knowledge. Take advantage of their knowledge.

And yes, $25 is beyond ridiculous for that bike. You scored - big-time.

I've paid more than that for a seatpost clamp bolt.

iphone converted the bike from inches to centimeters to 60 cm

So...what does the serial number say?

...im about to turn it into a fixie if i dont get advised to sell it and make a small fortune

:roflmao2:
Sounds like a threat!
This is obviously not the first time you've been to the C&V forum. You knew exactly what button to push.

:roflmao2:
Sounds like a threat!
This is obviously not the first time you've been to the C&V forum. You knew exactly what button to push.


lol, no just an avid forum user, never to this forum until last night.

the serial is a 610D E8580, like i said, it was mad in 05/85, and it was the 80th bike in production i think, if i read the site correctly.

Absolutely EVERYTHING on this bike is dura-ace, accept the rear hub, and handlebars, which are Cinelli campoine del mondo's..? and the hub is Exage.. but even the quick releases are dura-ace, brakes, cranks, shift levers, front/rear derailleurs, head set, seat post.. i think thats all that is on it, i cant see/think of any more parts.

"OP" means "original poster," i.e. you, in this case.

Paramounts, for most and perhaps all of their existence, were made separately from the rest of Schwinn's bike production. Even when Paramounts were made in the same Chicago factory as most other Schwinns, they were made in a separate fenced-off enclosure, known as The Cage.


Except for the ones that were made in Wisconsin by Don Mainland (including many of the chrome jobs).




Eventually (meaning the late 1980's or thereabouts), Paramount production moved to its own home in Waterford, Wisconsin.



Actually earlier than that - 1980.




(There were also other Paramounts, called "Paramount PDG's," that were not built in Waterford but rather Taiwan, I think, which are fine frames but do not have the cache of a Waterford-built Paramount or the older, Chicago-built ones.)



Common misconception. The Waterford Paramounts are also "PDG" bikes/frames: PDG stands for "Paramount Design Group." Waterford Paramounts thus commonly bear "PDG" decals. The Asian-built Paramounts are more accurately referred to as "Series" Paramounts, as they were designated by numbered series. If you see a "Series X" decal on the top tube, it's in all likelihood (there are a couple of exceptions) an Asian Paramount.

the serial is a 610D E8580, like i said, it was mad in 05/85, and it was the 80th bike in production i think, if i read the site correctly. ... and 61.0 cm (according to the serial number).

Bob

and no "W" in the serial # indicating waterford origin, but I don't think that rules waterford out.

You can't even buy a set a decent tire for $25 so I would say you did pretty darned well. A Waterford built Paramount will sell for good money - especially a complete bike like you have. These bikes seem to have a cult like following driving the price up. This is my opinion - based on keeping an eye on this stuff for the past year or so.

looks like it's now on san fran C-list: http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/bik/1328958128.html

and no "W" in the serial # indicating waterford origin, but I don't think that rules waterford out.
1985 was the transition year to self-describing serial numbers, so they may not have included the W at the time the OP's bike was made.

it is indeed on CL now :D yea i wasnt too sure as to how i should have measured the frame, but it came out closer to 61cm, however i rounded down to make it seem like it would fit me more lol.

That one cm might make a difference to a potential buyer - If I were thinking about spending $750 for it, I would want to know the exact frame size, and not find out later it was different than listed.

That one cm might make a difference to a potential buyer - If I were thinking about spending $750 for it, I would want to know the exact frame size, and not find out later it was different than listed.

fixed, thanks for the heads up

As a datapoint on prices, I bought this Dura-Ace equipped 1987 62cm Paramount a couple of years ago. It was advertised on CL for $295. I convinced the seller to take $500 for it, then had Dr. Deltron repaint it. I think $500 was a fair price.

As received from seller:

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d7/k4drd/Bicycles/1987%20Paramount%20620E%20WK%2087077/CIMG2225med.jpg

After Dr. D's magic:

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d7/k4drd/Bicycles/1987%20Paramount%20620E%20WK%2087077/1987Paramountmed.jpg

it is indeed on CL now :D yea i wasnt too sure as to how i should have measured the frame, but it came out closer to 61cm, however i rounded down to make it seem like it would fit me more lol.

Your ad sucks.

At least clean up the house before you snap pictures for a $750 bike.

Your ad sucks.

well how would an ad perform up to your standards, miamijim? I have no idea about anything about bikes, clearly as this thread verifies. I wouldnt be here asking what I am finding out about this bike if i did. so before flaming me in this forum, how about some constructive criticism instead of stepping back some years to the 4th grade and insulting a fellow newbie.

1. go find a white garage door.
2. raise the seatpost (aesthetics)
3. take more pics
_________________________________
profit.

thanks bobsonator, i just spent an hour n a half with a toothbrush and cleaned it, and once the sun is back up i am going to do that :D