Classic & Vintage - The Joe E. Mystery Frame - seattube reamed out

Chapter #3 in the story of the unknown frame: Damaged seat tube + die grinder = ready for thee framebuilder to braze in a new tube:

http://www.jaysmarine.com/unkframe_10.jpg

http://www.jaysmarine.com/unkframe_11.jpg

http://www.jaysmarine.com/unkframe_12.jpg


Yes, yes - I know the seat lug didn't come out too well:

http://www.jaysmarine.com/unkframe_13.jpg


The little tool that made it possible:

http://www.jaysmarine.com/diegrinder.jpg

-Kurt

just get a really long seat post: think how much lighter it will be! ;)

just get a really long seat post: think how much lighter it will be! ;)

:lol:

If that was even possible, it would end up weighing more then a 531 or SL tube + a short post.

-Kurt

I vote for PVC pipe...

I vote for PVC pipe...

What? And have a frame that rides dead? :p

-Kurt

no no no.. carbon fiber!




hahahaha....

:)

I may have missed an earlier posting about this...

what frame is it that is worth doing that?

hope it is something really special...

or did you do it just because you can?

looks dangerous

I may have missed an earlier posting about this...

Here are the originals:
The mystery, English-threaded, Prugnat-lugged frame continues (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=566287)

vintage masi help--please!!! (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=558042&highlight=unknown)



what frame is it that is worth doing that?

hope it is something really special...

I have no idea what it is. Nobody has any idea what it is - it is assumed to be a very small, independent job - probably homespun. Whatever it is, it has been built quite nicely, and I dare say there is no harm in giving it a new opportunity on life.



or did you do it just because you can?

I figured it was a good exercise, and that the frame is worth putting another tube in it.

-Kurt

hey that works for me...

Hmmm...interesting. So just slide the new tube in through the seat lug into the bottom bracket shell, a bit of JB Weld, and voila! a new frame! :p

A broom stick might work, and also give you an integrated seat post. :)

Oh - one more thing:

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t267/jd6572/2009%20Rides/Canyon%20Classic/drew.jpg

:D :D :D :D

Is that tool air powered?

I guess you just attacked from the top grinding the tube away, and for the BB just chop the tube close to the bottom and grind the rest out?

So just slide the new tube in through the seat lug into the bottom bracket shell, a bit of JB Weld, and voila! a new frame! :p

Try the expert silver soldering of framebuilder Mike Terraferma.



Oh - one more thing:

I was waiting for that :lol:



Is that tool air powered?

By a friend's 13-gallon, 4.0HP compressor. The die grinder has a large barrel carbide grinding bit in it - nothing else does the job.



I guess you just attacked from the top grinding the tube away, and for the BB just chop the tube close to the bottom and grind the rest out?

Precisely. This is the standard modus operandi for removing damaged tubes out of any frame that has been built with brass in the joints. Silver soldered frames, I hear, can have the tubes removed with heat, due to the lower melting temperature.

-Kurt

Incidentally, does anyone happen to have a spare 531 or SL 27.2 seatpost kicking about they'd sell or trade? The Dedacciai dealer is out for the week.

-Kurt

JohnDThompson generously offered me a Ishiwata 022 seat tube that arrived in the mail today. I'll probably have it silver soldered by Mike Terraferma over the weekend:

http://www.jaysmarine.com/unkframe_14.jpg

-Kurt

It ain't right unless you curved (I know there's gotta be a proper term) the bottom of the tube inside the BB shell.

The correct term is mitered, and any good frame builder should have no problem doing that.

Mitering shall be done.

-Kurt

I know miters as straight cuts, like when I install carpentry moldings. On a bike like what would be used on DT the at the head lug. Does the term apply to the rounded forms?

The correct term is mitered, and any good frame builder should have no problem doing that.

Well.... except Don Mainland sometimes... eh Kurt?

the real question is what to do about paint.

I suggest just putting a clearcoat over the thing as is, with the raw seat tube. The frame has an interesting legacy, and the paint job should reflect that, and look cool at the same time.

Well.... except Don Mainland sometimes... eh Kurt?

Exactly.

That, and all second-gen Paramounts had their seat tube mitered to the downtube.


the real question is what to do about paint.

I suggest just putting a clearcoat over the thing as is, with the raw seat tube. The frame has an interesting legacy, and the paint job should reflect that, and look cool at the same time.

You'll never see me clearcoat a raw frame. The only semi-original paint job on it is the lighter of the two oranges on it now, and even that isn't original, as the seat stays have most likely been replaced once before.

I'm thinking deep metallic blue (or emerald green) with gold lining in the future - but in the meantime, it's going to be double orange with oxide red.

-Kurt

I know miters as straight cuts, like when I install carpentry moldings. On a bike like what would be used on DT the at the head lug. Does the term apply to the rounded forms?

Yep, it does. When it's done by machine the cutter is more of a hole saw than the back saw for carpentry mitering. The auto racing guys just call it a fish-mouth instead of a miter.

JohnDThompson generously offered me a Ishiwata 022 seat tube that arrived in the mail today. I'll probably have it silver soldered by Mike Terraferma over the weekend:

http://www.jaysmarine.com/unkframe_14.jpg

-Kurt
Looks nice! Be sure to post more pics after it's brazed up.

Are those 16mm seat stays?

I know miters as straight cuts, like when I install carpentry moldings. On a bike like what would be used on DT the at the head lug. Does the term apply to the rounded forms?


Yep, it does. When it's done by machine the cutter is more of a hole saw than the back saw for carpentry mitering. The auto racing guys just call it a fish-mouth instead of a miter.

I'm an architect, and in both wood and metalwork, we call it "coping" when the shape of one element is matched to the profile of another.

And Kurt, be sure that the top end goes up!

You've already done the hard part. Why not silver solder it yourself?

I have been quiet on this till now, the fit of the new tube in the sockets wll be telling, I am a bit concerned that the BB shell will be a loose fit.

I think this is one that needs to be tacked and checked for alignment or pinned. After the structure that exists now has been checked for alignment.

Looks nice! Be sure to post more pics after it's brazed up.

Are those 16mm seat stays?

I'll do so.

Indeed, they are 16mm. Any particular significance?



And Kurt, be sure that the top end goes up!

The thicker butt end is in the BB, and the thin-wall end that will end up being 27.2 - when the work is done - is at the top.



You've already done the hard part. Why not silver solder it yourself?

Don't have the equipment, and I'd rather see the expert do it - especially when dealing with heating the bottom bracket.

-Kurt

Indeed, they are 16mm. Any particular significance?
No, I just like the look of 16mm stays. :)

Peugeot called their lugless construction frame joints as "mitered" joints where the cut of the pipe end has a curve that matches the curve of the surface of the pipe it is being brazed to.

Hey, while you're at it, why not try something cool like "ovalizing" the middle section of the Ishiwata downtube to give it a custom "aero" profile!....Uhm, do you have a big heavy truck??......;^)

Chombi
84 Peugeot PSV

No, I just like the look of 16mm stays. :)

Interesting - I've always been partial to pencil-thin.

-Kurt