Fifty Plus (50+) - Scary Moment

Lets see if I can paint a picture with words.
I am going up an incline into a RH blind curve. This is a Suburban through going road. No bike lane, no shoulder or sidewalk. Moderate traffic at 40 MPH or so. One lane each direction. Narrow pavement.
I am on the far right side of this street. There come two bikers on my side of the street against me and the traffic. Side by side and coming at me from the blind curve. Seems like father and son. No helmets and busy talking.
I look in my mirror to make an evasive maneuver. There comes a SUV from behind me and other cars from the opposite direction. Nothing I can do except the ditch.
I hold my course and the older biker squeezed between me and the SUV and the younger one went in the ditch on my right.
I expressed my shock and anger with some choice words, expletives deleted.
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What do you guys think about this? I have seen this behavior in some low income districts but this was upper middle suburbia. What can be done about this?

Please don't stereotype. That just p***es me off! Stupid knows no socioeconomic limitations. Do you think because you're in upper middle class suburbia the people are better, smarter, cherish their children more. Geez! I'll pray for you.

It's hard, long and imperfect, but, education is what can be done.

The OP might, for example, have just learned a bit complements of turtlewoman. Seeing people as their income or place of residence is a much more serious problem than wrong-way cycling.

In so many different situations, I find the slogan from Walt Kelly's Pogo"We have met the enemy...and he is US" pretty much covers 'em all. As humans, we have reached the moon and yet continually probe the depths of stupidity.

Good thing you could write about it!

Please don't stereotype. That just p***es me off! Study knows no socioeconomic limitations. Do you think because you're in upper middle class suburbia the people are better, smarter, cherish their children more. Geez! I'll pray for you.

I am just reporting that children in those socioeconomic areas bike often against the traffic. I have no idea why.
I am NOT suggesting that they are less smart or less cherished. I am suggesting that for some strange reason they are biking against the traffic, at night, no lights and dark color clothes.
If you want to make this into a nasty discussion, go at it. You are not helping anyone with that. Check how many kids get hit by cars.

Lets see if I can paint a picture with words.
I am going up an incline into a RH blind curve. This is a Suburban through going road. No bike lane, no shoulder or sidewalk. Moderate traffic at 40 MPH or so. One lane each direction. Narrow pavement.
I am on the far right side of this street. There come two bikers on my side of the street against me and the traffic. Side by side and coming at me from the blind curve. Seems like father and son. No helmets and busy talking.
I look in my mirror to make an evasive maneuver. There comes a SUV from behind me and other cars from the opposite direction. Nothing I can do except the ditch.
I hold my course and the older biker squeezed between me and the SUV and the younger one went in the ditch on my right.
I expressed my shock and anger with some choice words, expletives deleted.
------------------
What do you guys think about this? I have seen this behavior in some low income districts but this was upper middle suburbia. What can be done about this?

I think you are fortunate that the younger one didn't hit you and possibly force you over in front of the SUV. Or, you could have bumped the older biker into a situation where he got hit by the SUV.

The right of way is not worth dying for, nor causing someone else to die.

When I see something like that (and I have) I just stop, get off the road, and give them a dumb look as they go by.

I am just reporting that children in those socioeconomic areas bike often against the traffic. I have no idea why.
I am NOT suggesting that they are less smart or less cherished. I am suggesting that for some strange reason they are biking against the traffic, at night, no lights and dark color clothes.
If you want to make this into a nasty discussion, go at it. You are not helping anyone with that. Check how many kids get hit by cars.

Isn't this comment a stereotype? Yes. Kind of irritating, no?

It's hard, long and imperfect, but, education is what can be done.

The OP might, for example, have just learned a bit complements of turtlewoman. Seeing people as their income or place of residence is a much more serious problem than wrong-way cycling.

I am sure that I should have worded this touchy subject differently.
What I was trying to say is that biking on the wrong side of the street can be dangerous. This town has typical socioeconomic distribution of an American town with 125,000 people. I drive through it all the time and have noticed that some kids (and older adults) bike against the traffic. I do not know if it is some kind of disobedience, expression of freedom or what. I just wish they would bike on the right side. It would be helpful if they had a light but that is now really asking too much.

I currently volunteer at a bike collective here which provides bikes at low or no cost to people who are willing to work on them. Many 8, 10, 12 year old kids have come in for bikes. I don't know their class designation but I would assume a lower income status because of where they are coming for a bike. They have without exception been courteous, pleasant, willing to learn and do the work of getting their chosen bike ready to ride. They wear helmets. I don't know if they have lights or wear dark clothes. But they do have a good understanding about bike rules. I know because I ask them. I want them to be safe and have fun. On the other hand, I have lived in upper socio-economic neighborhoods and have seen privileged kids participating in many of the unsafe practises that you mention. Have you ever known a rich a**hole? It's not the amount of money or education or privilege that you have that makes you a safer, more conscious, empathic, "good" person. It's alot about who you are inside and how your environment taught you to see the world. I don't want to get into a "nasty discussion" with you. I just know that you are dead wrong in your prejudice and I feel sorry for you. Your world must be hard to live in comfortably.

I currently volunteer at a bike collective here which provides bikes at low or no cost to people who are willing to work on them. Many 8, 10, 12 year old kids have come in for bikes. I don't know their class designation but I would assume a lower income status because of where they are coming for a bike. They have without exception been courteous, pleasant, willing to learn and do the work of getting their chosen bike ready to ride. They wear helmets. I don't know if they have lights or wear dark clothes. But they do have a good understanding about bike rules. I know because I ask them. I want them to be safe and have fun. On the other hand, I have lived in upper socio-economic neighborhoods and have seen privileged kids participating in many of the unsafe practises that you mention. Have you ever known a rich a**hole? It's not the amount of money or education or privilege that you have that makes you a safer, more conscious, empathic, "good" person. It's alot about who you are inside and how your environment taught you to see the world. I don't want to get into a "nasty discussion" with you. I just know that you are dead wrong in your prejudice and I feel sorry for you. Your world must be hard to live in comfortably.

What prejudice? The OP was judging the 2 cyclists riding on the wrong side of the street endangering him or her. Nothing was said of any body's socioeconomic status. You are angry. I feel sorry for you.

Rubic, reread the original post. You are misguided.

I think you are fortunate that the younger one didn't hit you and possibly force you over in front of the SUV. Or, you could have bumped the older biker into a situation where he got hit by the SUV.

The right of way is not worth dying for, nor causing someone else to die.

When I see something like that (and I have) I just stop, get off the road, and give them a dumb look as they go by.

I agree with your point and will do so if I can. The events came fast. Two guys coming at me from blind curve, Car fast from behind, no shoulder only the ditch.
In this case getting off the bike could have put me into the path of the oncoming biker and the car.
It was just too fast.
I could have gone in the ditch with my road bike. Not good. The other biker had some sort of mountain bike.
But thanks for your comment. Avoiding a confrontation is best in most cases. No disagreement there.

I suspect they considered themselves like unto pedestrians and therefore rode against traffic as they would if they had been walking. I would attribute their behavior to ignorance. The use of helmets is, thankfully, a personal choice. I choose to wear one because I crashed without having one on my beautiful head a few years back and wore a nice knot on my head and two black eyes for a while. OK, people. Lighten up. Go for a ride!

[QUOTE=turtlewoman;9506684]I currently volunteer at a bike collective here which provides bikes at low or no cost to people who are willing to work on them. Many 8, 10, 12 year old kids have come in for bikes. I don't know their class designation but I would assume a lower income status because of where they are coming for a bike................................................................................................ ........................ QUOTE]

Let me try again.
We have a son. He is 45 years old and living in Ohio. We are in Illinois. I bought him a fancy Road Bike to get him to stop smoking. It worked. He is off cigarettes for two years.
Anyway: As I started biking with him I noticed to my horror that he disregarded all rules of the road as he went on the bike. He has been driving cars since age 16.
For some reason he feels that he can express some sense of freedom if he is on the bike.
We had arguments about this and at least in my presence he now bikes VC.
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Recently he biked without helmet and paid no attention to the road he was on. The sad result was a fracture on his leg joint which needed surgery and screws to hold things together.
I am hoping he learned a lesson which keeps him safer.
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I am not a political person. All I like to know how to get these people to follow some uniform rules so we all are safer.

This behavior is typical of "sidewalk" cyclists who thing riding against traffic is safer. I was there a few years ago, but learned several important lessons. Riding sidewalks on my hybrid at 8 to 12 mph is very different than riding a "road" bike.

Riding sidewalks is very dangerous, as I have learned by experience, regardless of whether you go 'with the flow' or against it. Against it happens to be MUCH MORE DANGEROUS!

Riding in the road, at least in the state of FLA. REQUIRES the cyclist to OBEY ALL road rules, plus a few special rules.

The behavior cited by the OP typifies the ignorant cyclist thinking they are safer riding against traffic because they think they fast enough to swerve out of the way of an errant car. They forget that the force of impact is the SQUARE of the impact speeds, not the simple addition, which is bad enough.

I believe Darwin studied this phenomena.

Please don't stereotype. That just p***es me off! Stupid knows no socioeconomic limitations. Do you think because you're in upper middle class suburbia the people are better, smarter, cherish their children more. Geez! I'll pray for you.

On an individual basis it is unwise to judge people based on nothing more than their income/education. But on an aggregate basis there is ample evidence that there really are significant differences in behavior based on socioeconomic status. High risk behavior like smoking is a good example. Exercising and active recreation participaton are another.

This behavior is typical of "sidewalk" cyclists who thing riding against traffic is safer. I was there a few years ago, but learned several important lessons. Riding sidewalks on my hybrid at 8 to 12 mph is very different than riding a "road" bike.

Riding sidewalks is very dangerous, as I have learned by experience, regardless of whether you go 'with the flow' or against it. Against it happens to be MUCH MORE DANGEROUS!

Riding in the road, at least in the state of FLA. REQUIRES the cyclist to OBEY ALL road rules, plus a few special rules.

The behavior cited by the OP typifies the ignorant cyclist thinking they are safer riding against traffic because they think they fast enough to swerve out of the way of an errant car. They forget that the force of impact is the SQUARE of the impact speeds, not the simple addition, which is bad enough.

All the points you make plus the unexpected.
Cars (and bikers like me) do not expect some loose biker coming at you from just any direction. As a car driver I have enough trouble looking for things in the way they are supposed to come. Live is miserable if we need to look up for airplanes landing, people walking the streets at random and biking at random.
I just like to know where this comes from. I mentioned in above post that my own son developed that goofy biking. He is or he thinks of him selves as a independent sort. OK, but you do not have to cause accidents to prove your independence.
BTW, that is why he started smoking. Go figure.

On an individual basis it is unwise to judge people based on nothing more than their income/education. But on an aggregate basis there is ample evidence that there really are significant differences in behavior based on socioeconomic status. High risk behavior like smoking is a good example. Exercising and active recreation participaton are another.

As we know this is a touchy subject.
I offer this for consideration: Children of some population groups are more likely to bike around the neighborhood then other groups. There is nothing discriminatory in that observation. Biking is good and healthy. Better then sitting all day on the TV or computer I think.
I bike regardless that the accepted form of social activity around here is golfing.
If we care about those kids, should we not report unsafe practices and try to get change?
I am just puzzled where this against traffic biking comes from? My own son was doing it and certainly not from my example. He is not low socioeconomic.
In his case it was a form of social rebellion. Stupid just like smoking and drugs.

Thank you, Mr. Dehne. I hear your point and it is well made. Your son and all bikers should obey the rules of the road. Personally, I feel wearing a helmet is in the best interest of the cyclist. I think, Mr. Dehne, believe it or not that we have reached an agreement.:) Thank you for hanging in there and being a gentleman the whole way.
Kate Wolfe

Thank you, Mr. Dehne. I hear your point and it is well made. Your son and all bikers should obey the rules of the road. Personally, I feel wearing a helmet is in the best interest of the cyclist. I think, Mr. Dehne, believe it or not that we have reached an agreement.:) Thank you for hanging in there and being a gentleman the whole way.
Kate Wolfe

And thank you for contributing to improve the life of kids who need it. God knows we need more of that. I am not involved in politics but financially support such efforts. My wife has been volunteering for over 25 years to assist children who need assistance.
My wife could have worked to increase our income but we choose not to.
Therefore I am on your side that these kids need help and protection.
I have a problem identifying a need without somehow sounding biased. Perhaps a language issue?
FYI, my wife is a Polish coal miners daughter. The father died at her age 11 from effects in the German coal mines. Her mother raised 5 daughters without income after WW2 for a number of years. I do not know how she did that.
My father was blue collar. My mother died at my age 2.
We started in the USA in 1963 with minus $400 which someone lend us to come over here.
Things were difficult for many years and we are no snobs.

okay,
Now that you two have made up let me add my .02. My daily ride this morning along a busy four lane highway that has a good shoulder. Two of us cruising along at rush hour 19-20mph when a guy is now approaching on his bike on our shoulder. Our only options are to ease out into the busy highway with 70mph traffic or hit the ditch. The oncoming cyclist (riding a mountain bike), obviously a Hispanic, stayed right on the edge of the pavement and one of us had to take the ditch.
Same total disregard for the rules of the road noted in the OP. This happens on this stretch of road at least once a week. Those that disregard the rules, I believe, have no idea what the rules are, and could care less. The individual this morning spoke no English. The only way to truly solve the problem is to eliminate those that disregard the rules.
Carry on.

okay,
Now that you two have made up let me add my .02. My daily ride this morning along a busy four lane highway that has a good shoulder. Two of us cruising along at rush hour 19-20mph when a guy is now approaching on his bike on our shoulder. Our only options are to ease out into the busy highway with 70mph traffic or hit the ditch. The oncoming cyclist (riding a mountain bike), obviously a Hispanic, stayed right on the edge of the pavement and one of us had to take the ditch.
Same total disregard for the rules of the road noted in the OP. This happens on this stretch of road at least once a week. Those that disregard the rules, I believe, have no idea what the rules are, and could care less. The individual this morning spoke no English. The only way to truly solve the problem is to eliminate those that disregard the rules.
Carry on.

I must say to forget the Hispanic aspect because the exact same thing happened to me with a withe guy coming from the local Rockford Valley College this week. I actually talked to him in a civilized way but have the distinct impression that he tuned me out. Why? I do not know. A mystery to me.
Here is one case where I clamor for the power of the law. Bicycles should integrate into the rules of the road just like cars and motorcycles. Someone said that Florida and some other States have such laws.
Are they enforced and generally accepted?
I fear that in our compassion for the non car owning population we sacrifice safety of the same group.
What is it someone said?: The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
There are way too many bike accidents.
This is just IMHO.

Please don't stereotype. That just p***es me off! Stupid knows no socioeconomic limitations. Do you think because you're in upper middle class suburbia the people are better, smarter, cherish their children more. Geez! I'll pray for you.

Yup

I always figured that people remembered being told to walk against traffic, and just never thought to ride any differently. It really surprises me how many people take up riding without bothering to learn anything about it, anyway. I even see riders who've moved up from their Walmart bikes to something nicer, but still ride the wrong way, with no helmet, wearing clothes that look like they would chafe after 5 miles.

I always announce "wrong way" when I meet one of these, but have no illusions that what I say will make any difference. People who don't want to learn anything, usually don't. But I feel compelled to tell them, anyway.

I started to study bicycle relative safety and found the data below

Statistics from the Dr Pietro Tonino of Loyola U. School of Medicine
Based on data from CPSC
Sports-related injuries presenting at US hospital emergency rooms.
Data for 2005. These would be the more serious injuries. There is no adjustment for exposure data to relate the number of hours spent by US residents in each of the activities.

Sport ER Visits
Basketball 500,000
Bicycling 485,000
US Football 418,000
Soccer (Football) 175,000
Skateboarding 112,000
Trampolines 108,000
Horseback riding 73,000
Golf 47,000
Roller Skating 35,000
Wrestling 34,000
Tennis 19,000
Track & Field 17,000

Dr. Tonino's study was reported in the Washington Post on June 19, 2006.

Hi Mr. Dehne, I think that's great that your wife is able to volunteer with kids--they need so much. Sometimes it's just a little respect and appreciation. So both of you are from Europe originally. Living there during the War must have been very hard. I salute your courage and perseverance. And what a lucky lady your wife is to have been free to raise a family and help others.
Wow!! That's a whole lot of bicycling related injuries. I had no idea the number would be so high. I do see lots of teens and twenty somethings riding around town with no helmets. Fortunately, I don't see alot of people going the wrong way. Just today at the bike collective a grown man in his 50's finished working on building is bike and was ready to leave with it. He had walked to the collective so he was going to be riding away. I asked him where his helmet was, he said, "Aw, I don't need one. My heads too hard". We do have donated helmets for people and I tried and tried to get him to take one but he refused. I hope he doesn't become one of the bicycling statistics!
Kate Wolfe

Hi Mr. Dehne, I think that's great that your wife is able to volunteer with kids--they need so much. Sometimes it's just a little respect and appreciation. So both of you are from Europe originally. Living there during the War must have been very hard. I salute your courage and perseverance. And what a lucky lady your wife is to have been free to raise a family and help others.
Wow!! That's a whole lot of bicycling related injuries. I had no idea the number would be so high. I do see lots of teens and twenty somethings riding around town with no helmets. Fortunately, I don't see alot of people going the wrong way. Just today at the bike collective a grown man in his 50's finished working on building is bike and was ready to leave with it. He had walked to the collective so he was going to be riding away. I asked him where his helmet was, he said, "Aw, I don't need one. My heads too hard". We do have donated helmets for people and I tried and tried to get him to take one but he refused. I hope he doesn't become one of the bicycling statistics!
Kate Wolfe

I hope you do not mind if I give some pointers for the reasons to use bicycle safety equipment. I had a number of accidents and speak from experience. Here we go:
Helmets
If someone falls off the bike, you can fall like a sack of potatoes and break things or you can sort of roll of the bike and on the ground to absorb the momentum of the fall. That means likely contact of head to ground. The brain does not like to be shocked and all kinds of bad things can happen such as memory loss or dead.
Gloves
You will appreciate gloves the first time you land on your hands if you dive to the ground.
Bike Shorts
A skillful fall likes to land on the rear end. It helps if there is padding.
Been there and done that.
Please keep up the good work.
Cheers

I have to weigh in on this. A few years ago I took a new job 30 miles away from our home (unfortunately, it's not a rideable 30 miles) in an area I was unfamiliar with. Since I've been here I have noted the consistent practice of riding against the traffic by people of all ages. There is a marked difference in the percentage of riders doing so in my town of employment versus my community of residence. The town I work in is lower down the socioeconomic scale than the community I live in, but I'm not sure I want to peg that as the reason, as I have many similarly situated communities that surround my home and I haven't noticed any uptick in the number of wrong-way riders in those communities. It truly baffles me.

You are not helping anyone with that. Check how many kids get hit by cars.

I agree that they were acting improperly. The father was probably doing as he was taught and passing that knowledge on to his son. Venting here may make you feel better, but it's not helping anyone, either. If you want to break the cycle (sorry for the pun) and teach them to ride correctly, get Road I certified then volunteer some of your time, go into their schools, and teach them the right way to do it.

Preaching at them on the side of the road does no good because you're just another know-nothing, just like the cagers yelling at you to stay on the sidewalks. But when you give a lecture at school, you're an expert. I've done this and it was well-received. Maybe I even saved a few lives; ya never know!

At one time I was told by our schools it was the right way to ride but as time change so has a lot of things.At school back in the early 60s we was told to ride this way.Then it took a turn that way was all wrong you now must go same way as a car does.And I don't like to see any one put down because of the income they live on.This to me has always been wrong but like all things people are people the more money you have the better you are but thats not always true.Some times having a lot of money can get your a_ _ in more trouble than you may want it to.This is way I have alway try to help anyone and I ask nothing in return a smile is worth more to me than anything and seeing a kid happy is even better.When you see a kid/child doing wrong on a bicycle try to let him or her know it wrong I have done it a few times and got told what to do a few times a well but I still keep on helping.I just don't understand why the way some one lives makes them less of a person guess I will never know why because no matter what any one tells us it will still be done putting people in one kind of life style.Just my 2 cents on this. Opinions are like a_ _ holes ever one has one. :-)

Let's see if I can paint a picture with words.

I'm sorry, but I didn't get a very clear picture from your words.

I'm not clear as to whether you are on a bike or in a car. You say you are on the far right side of the street, so that sounds like you are on a bike.

You say "I look into my mirror to make an evasive maneuver," I guess you mean that you look into your rearview mirror to see whether someone is about to pass you, and prevent you from making an evasive maneuver???

You say "Nothing I can do except the ditch." But then you say you hold your course, so I'm confused there.

You painted a picture, but it was kind of like abstract art. ;)

I'm sorry, but I didn't get a very clear picture from your words.

I'm not clear as to whether you are on a bike or in a car. You say you are on the far right side of the street, so that sounds like you are on a bike.

You say "I look into my mirror to make an evasive maneuver," I guess you mean that you look into your rear-view mirror to see whether someone is about to pass you, and prevent you from making an evasive maneuver???

You say "Nothing I can do except the ditch." But then you say you hold your course, so I'm confused there.

You painted a picture, but it was kind of like abstract art. ;)

It is OK. I know how easy it is to get different meanings to any story. Just watch a jury trial.
Anyway:
I was on a Bike at the RH edge of the pavement.
There is a very nice rear view mirror on my bike. I look into it very often and checked if a big fat car is coming up from behind and perhaps another car on my left coming at me. That would not leave much room for little me and those two guys barreling down on me against the traffic.
Holding the course meant that I continued on the RH edge of the pavement. Going in the ditch with my road bike would have meant a fall. Going left would have meant in the way of the car from behind and possibly crashing into the guy coming at me. It was a mess and I was more then upset.
As said before, the two guys had bikes with fat tires.

I agree that they were acting improperly. The father was probably doing as he was taught and passing that knowledge on to his son. Venting here may make you feel better, but it's not helping anyone, either. If you want to break the cycle (sorry for the pun) and teach them to ride correctly, get Road I certified then volunteer some of your time, go into their schools, and teach them the right way to do it.

Preaching at them on the side of the road does no good because you're just another know-nothing, just like the cagers yelling at you to stay on the sidewalks. But when you give a lecture at school, you're an expert. I've done this and it was well-received. Maybe I even saved a few lives; ya never know!

I know few people as well as my son who is doing this type of biking. I can tell you his motivation: Anti Rules of any Authority. He chooses to live in Yellow Springs, OH. I have observed a rebellious attitude against law and order by the people my son met there. My son has suffered consequences of this attitude and has survived only barely some accidents by car and bike.
BTW, that is not a low socioeconomic town.
I agree that teachers make a difference both good and bad. We can not all be teachers. I am definitely not qualified.
Someone is teaching our young people not to follow rules.

At one time I was told by our schools it was the right way to ride but as time change so has a lot of things.At school back in the early 60s we was told to ride this way.

I hate to say it. Well, maybe not... But... the people who told you that were ignorant of the laws, even back then. It has never been the law anywhere in the U.S. to ride against traffic. Teachers go to college so they can teach math and social studies, but they're not trained in teaching bicycling.

I'm reminded of a mothers' group a few years ago that was formed after someone's kid was hit & killed by a car. They went around the country teaching kids to ride facing traffic. Out of ignorance, they were teaching all those kids, and probably future generations, to ride in a manner that is not only against the law, but statistically much more dangerous. That's why we need more actual cyclists, who know the law and the proper way to ride, teaching our kids.

I checked data available on Google and that data repeatably shows that biking against traffic is much more dangerous and so is biking on sidewalks as someone here said.
However I must assume that our police has other things to do then remind bikers of this and enforce the law.
Going through stop signs and red lights at full speed is just as bad or worse. I noticed that the law is not rigorous in enforcing that either.
I got some negative comments about the relevancy of the statistic of ER visits by bikers. OK, I agree but this is hard data available and it shows that we do have a problem with bike safety.
Biking is here not as popular as in Europa. The rules of biking are more closely observed there or they would have many more accidents. One study on Google says that biking is 3 times safer per mileage biked in Germany and 6 times in Holland.
I bike in those places. Few if any bike against traffic or run red lights.
I think it has to do with respect for the law more then anything else.

Since this thread was initiated, I have begun to pay a little more attention to the side of the road people on bikes use.

The "cyclists", recreational and commuter, in these parts ride on the right side of the road with the flow of traffic. I've noticed several of the "people on bikes" with no helmets ride on the left side of the road against traffic.

I encountered one of these yesterday within a mile of my place on a long, straight stretch as I was returning home. There is no shoulder on this particular road. I saw him coming, and he saw me. He was a teenager on a mountain bike. I maintained my line and speed (Will, we call this playing "chicken"), and since I'm fairly tall and on a 60 cm bike, he got the idea and ducked into a parking lot. No words were exchanged, just a stern glance from yours truly. After I got by him, I noticed that he changed sides of the road :) and continued on his way. Perhaps this encounter taught him something. I hope so.

My daughter is 12 and pretty good at obeying the rules of the road. Most younger kids wear helmets, but I've noticed that a fair number of teenagers do not. Not cool, messes up your hair, I don't know. I'm doing my best to make sure my daughter keeps riding safely -- it's dangerous enough out there as it is.

BTW, I'm glad you're okay Will. That would have scared the heck out of me.