Laggard
08-20-09, 08:10 PM
Too much emphasis is placed on strong teams. Riders equal to Contador have won GTs with relatively weak teams. Lemond in '89 had an infamously weak team.
Professional Cycling For the Fans - George Hincapie to team Radio Shack
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08-20-09, 09:30 PM
Too much emphasis is placed on strong teams. Riders equal to Contador have won GTs with relatively weak teams.
True, but strong teams help a riders chances. A weak one can hurt.
True, but strong teams help a riders chances. A weak one can hurt.
monosierra
08-20-09, 09:40 PM
True, but strong teams help a riders chances. A weak one can hurt.
I get the impression that in this time and era, teams play a stronger role than before?
I get the impression that in this time and era, teams play a stronger role than before?
Fat Boy
08-20-09, 09:58 PM
In 2-3 years they'll have young Phinney for that role, if he continues to mature as most suspect he will. Talk about a kid who may walk into the Pro peleton in the same style that Lewis Hamilton entered F1.
By that do you mean every possible advantage coming through the lower ranks and grooming for the position since kindergarden?
By that do you mean every possible advantage coming through the lower ranks and grooming for the position since kindergarden?
bigfred
08-20-09, 10:14 PM
By that do you mean every possible advantage coming through the lower ranks and grooming for the position since kindergarden?
With the exception of "since kindergarten", more or less yes. As I understand the situation, it sounds like his parents haven't put any pressure on him to get involved in cycling and since he's come to it on his own, it's taken a little while longer. But, beyond that, the kid should have incredible genetics, has already shown incredible talent, he's got lots of support from the folks in Colorado, Trek, LA, et al., plenty of the right people grooming him and giving direction to what he needs to be working on and doing. If he wants input there is an allstar list of experience and proven talent to help him. And when he moves into the pro's it will without doubt be on a strong squad. Probably TRS, since he's already in their system. I realize the comparison isn't perfect, but without doubt, he'll be entering the pro's with the sort of support and confidence that most don't get to experience. I hope he can keep his head on straight, his nose down and just ride his bike. I imagine one of his challenges is going to be dealing with the expectations that too many(including us) will have of him.
Why? Do you see it differently?
With the exception of "since kindergarten", more or less yes. As I understand the situation, it sounds like his parents haven't put any pressure on him to get involved in cycling and since he's come to it on his own, it's taken a little while longer. But, beyond that, the kid should have incredible genetics, has already shown incredible talent, he's got lots of support from the folks in Colorado, Trek, LA, et al., plenty of the right people grooming him and giving direction to what he needs to be working on and doing. If he wants input there is an allstar list of experience and proven talent to help him. And when he moves into the pro's it will without doubt be on a strong squad. Probably TRS, since he's already in their system. I realize the comparison isn't perfect, but without doubt, he'll be entering the pro's with the sort of support and confidence that most don't get to experience. I hope he can keep his head on straight, his nose down and just ride his bike. I imagine one of his challenges is going to be dealing with the expectations that too many(including us) will have of him.
Why? Do you see it differently?
240GL
08-21-09, 01:47 AM
Average age: 35.5 :eek:
IMHO not a serious overall winner contender in the group.
At only 34, Kurt Asle Arvesen is bringing down the average age-!
IMHO not a serious overall winner contender in the group.
At only 34, Kurt Asle Arvesen is bringing down the average age-!
Keith99
08-21-09, 10:00 AM
I get the impression that in this time and era, teams play a stronger role than before?
That depends a lot on the GC rider and for that matter the Tour for the year.
Classic example is an almost pure TT rider. Team matters more as the team has to help him throughthe mountians and it is likely the best climbers on hte team will always be there to help as they will be as good or better in the mountians than he is.
Of course a team matters more if there is a TTT and the longer the more they matter. Here the team complimenting the rider matters a lot. A pure climber needs more from his team in this. Merckx or Mig could come out OK with a weak TTT team, they could carry enough of the load to minimize the damage. A Pantani with weak TTT team is playing that year for stages or KOM, GC chance all but gone. But even a Merckx or Mig may be in danger if the Tour design is set against them with a weak TTT team. If the TTT is followed by a tough stage (which also means one where time will be gained or lost) if they have to give maximum effort to minimize damage they may lose time the next day to fresher riders whose team did more of the work on the TTT.
It is also worth pointing out that a strong second rider on a team can mean a lot even if he does nothing. In tough stages when the numerb of riders thins out having one teammate close can mean you can afford to take a risk. If yuo do blow up you will have help. No such rider and the risk may not be worth taking, the cost of failure is too high. This help is often invisible, because if the risk works the support rider is all but forgotten.
That depends a lot on the GC rider and for that matter the Tour for the year.
Classic example is an almost pure TT rider. Team matters more as the team has to help him throughthe mountians and it is likely the best climbers on hte team will always be there to help as they will be as good or better in the mountians than he is.
Of course a team matters more if there is a TTT and the longer the more they matter. Here the team complimenting the rider matters a lot. A pure climber needs more from his team in this. Merckx or Mig could come out OK with a weak TTT team, they could carry enough of the load to minimize the damage. A Pantani with weak TTT team is playing that year for stages or KOM, GC chance all but gone. But even a Merckx or Mig may be in danger if the Tour design is set against them with a weak TTT team. If the TTT is followed by a tough stage (which also means one where time will be gained or lost) if they have to give maximum effort to minimize damage they may lose time the next day to fresher riders whose team did more of the work on the TTT.
It is also worth pointing out that a strong second rider on a team can mean a lot even if he does nothing. In tough stages when the numerb of riders thins out having one teammate close can mean you can afford to take a risk. If yuo do blow up you will have help. No such rider and the risk may not be worth taking, the cost of failure is too high. This help is often invisible, because if the risk works the support rider is all but forgotten.
Dolomiti
08-21-09, 10:43 PM
A Pantani with weak TTT team is playing that year for stages or KOM, GC chance all but gone.
Ohh I just looked at the 2000 Tour de France TTT... he lost 3 minutes to Armstrong... Zulle 4 minutes, and Botero, Escartin, and Heras all lost almost 5 minutes to Armstrong. Though it was an extremely long TTT, (70km, 90 minutes) but by memory, it seems the TTT and Hautacam were the two most important GC stages in the 2000 Tour.
Ohh I just looked at the 2000 Tour de France TTT... he lost 3 minutes to Armstrong... Zulle 4 minutes, and Botero, Escartin, and Heras all lost almost 5 minutes to Armstrong. Though it was an extremely long TTT, (70km, 90 minutes) but by memory, it seems the TTT and Hautacam were the two most important GC stages in the 2000 Tour.