Classic and Vintage Bicycles: What's it Worth? Appraisals and Inquiries - Carlton Flyer info please

My sister-in-law's father originally owned this Carlton Flyer and I'm now trying to gather some information about the bike. Below are some pictures I took recently. I'm hoping someone here can give an idea of the bike's age and if possible, some idea about estimated value.

From some preliminary research (aka poking around the Internet) I think the Flyer was produced over a wide number of years. Correct? In any case, we think this bike dates from the 60's. The serial number she located on the frame is 2028.

The Nuovo Record RD is marked "Patent" but with no date number following.

Thanks for any information you might have.


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2492/3837519895_5b1e13fce0_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3543/3837520085_3657f12403_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2447/3838311616_440b40fcec.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2664/3837520917_b3725f28fe_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2671/3838312302_85dd0b801b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3505/3838312570_61fd1d66e4.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2649/3837521571_3e796ae2ec.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2439/3838313242_78b7199092.jpg

A stunning bike. I'm guessing the frame is indeed from the 60's - the Flyer was a top model. My hunch is that some of the parts have been upgraded over time? The "Patent" Nuovo Record derailleur is circa 1968-9, but the cranks are 151-BCD and may be earlier (and those, like the "Patent" derailleur, potentially add value). The shifters also look 60's; but the brake levers appear to be later, hence my sense the bike's been upgraded. All in all, if the whole bike is original, it's probably from about 1968. But as I say, it may be the frame is a bit earlier and has some (high quality) upgrades. Perhaps someone else will know - but in any case the frame appears to be in original shape, and it's very nice. I hesitate to attribute a value, but between the frame and the desirable parts, I wouldn't be surprised to see it sell for $1200-1500. Someone more expert will give better input - if you're fortunate, Hilary Stone will weigh in and render my impressions moot.

NICE bike, I think there's some upgrades/updates (modern Campy levers and calipers) and seems like the fork was drilled out for Allen bolt, too.
But...great condition, so I'd say get that electrical tape and those zip ties OFF before they muck up the paint!

Thanks for the input. Upon first seeing the bike, and assuming a late-60's manufacture, I also thought that at least some components must have been changed from the original.

And yes, the first thing I told the current owner was to get that tape and cyclometer wiring off!

funny that it looks so "60s" but has braze-on shifter bosses...and there doesn't seem to be any sign of those being added-on and the paint touched-up. Might this be the earliest use of them (at least the Campy bosses, since I've seen French ones on '60s bikes) and help nail the date? Of course the serial number would do that, too, for somebody who knows.:)
edit: no there's a pic of one from about 1960 that has shifter bosses...and without a letter code in your serial number, dating will have to be done by somebody who has "the eye".

funny that it looks so "60s" but has braze-on shifter bosses...and there doesn't seem to be any sign of those being added-on and the paint touched-up. Might this be the earliest use of them (at least the Campy bosses, since I've seen French ones on '60s bikes) and help nail the date? Of course the serial number would do that, too, for somebody who knows.:)
edit: no there's a pic of one from about 1960 that has shifter bosses...and without a letter code in your serial number, dating will have to be done by somebody who has "the eye".

I think braze-on bosses for Campagnolo shifters were available well before that. Just not common in the age of "too-many-braze-ons-ruins-the-frame." I'll do some research (the shift levers on that bike are the pre-1970 version in any case.)

Apparently, they date from the early versions of the Gran Sport derailleur, circa 1951 or so. And lo and behold, there they are in the 1953 catalog.

(The simplex ones were available well before 1960 as well - I have a pre-war Hobbs frame that has one for the rear derailleur that apparently could be original.)

Hmm... re: serial number, the four-digit number was all I got. Unfortunately, I'm now in TX and the bike is in CO so I can't run over and check for myself. I'll ask for a re-check to see if there is a letter code.

I'm not at all sure of my facts here, but as I understand it, Raleigh acquired Carlton around 1960/61 or so. I see on a Wiki page about Raleigh/Carlton that serial numbers starting with "A" denote a 1966 build date, "B" is 1967, etc. So, perhaps this frame is pre-'66?

Thanks again for your thoughts.

Hmm... re: serial number, the four-digit number was all I got. Unfortunately, I'm now in TX and the bike is in CO so I can't run over and check for myself. I'll ask for a re-check to see if there is a letter code.

I'm not at all sure of my facts here, but as I understand it, Raleigh acquired Carlton around 1960/61 or so. I see on a Wiki page about Raleigh/Carlton that serial numbers starting with "A" denote a 1966 build date, "B" is 1967, etc. So, perhaps this frame is pre-'66?

Thanks again for your thoughts.

It's more complicated than that, the Raleigh acquisition didn't really mark a big serial number change...check out this site (which unfortunately isn't active anymore):
http://www.carltoncycles.me.uk/details/dating.htm

It's more complicated than that, the Raleigh acquisition didn't really mark a big serial number change...check out this site (which unfortunately isn't active anymore):
http://www.carltoncycles.me.uk/details/dating.htm

Ugh... I see what you mean. Soon, I'll be where the bike is and can then look further into the matter.
Thanks!

Hi, did you ever figure out the date of your Carlton Flyer? I have one that I need to date. I'll post pictures sometime towards the end of next week. Mine is similar but: Center pull Weinman brakes and levers, the lug points appear to be shorter, the head-tube lugs don't have the cutout at the top that yours has. Also, double bolt seat post, Brooks saddle.