Living Car Free - Replacing the "Family" car... Quadracycles

Seeing as not everyone is able to ride bicycles, is the only real option that exists to replace a family vehicle a Quadracycle?
Requirements of a family vehicle:
- Grocery Space
- 2 Adults, 2 Children (room for an Infant Car Seat)
- Safe & Durable
- Drivable in All Weather

Help me list all the bicycle like vehicles that exist, the two that come to the top of my head are the following; however, they both appear to lack in the all weather driving department.
Rhoades Car (http://www.rhoadescar.com/jumpfeat.htm)
Surrey Company (http://surreycompany.com/products.htm)

Downsides: Doubt these would "fit" in a bikelane.

Search pulled up a link a BF user had added.
Listing of all manufacturers of 4 wheeled bikes (http://www.bhsi.org/fourwhel.htm)

I've been talking with some fellow mechanical engineering students about building something like this. Would be made from bicycles and probably only seat two people, side by side, at first. We have been toying with the idea of a horizontal suspension setup for leaning into turns and such. An all weather, 3-4 person human powered vehicle with cargo space is more or less the end goal.


Downsides: Doubt these would "fit" in a bikelane.
In my opinion this shouldn't really even be a consideration for a vehicle like this.

This will not replace a family automobile. It will not be capable of going up any but the slightest grade, it will travel at near walking speed on flat terrain, it will have a range of only a few miles at most, it still won't haul much weight or volume, and there really would be no place it would be safe or practical to drive. Living car-free requires an adjustment to your life. If you can't make the adjustment, and must have a car, you would be better off getting a real car.

I've seen variations on this which, I think, might work better. A group of 4 bicycles travels together with a common platform holding cargo. The bikes are somehow lashed together, usually at the top tube. I've seen this configuration among riders on local bike trails. The group was carrying tools to clean up a bike path, as well as some beer and a stereo...

They were able to travel pretty quickly... unlike the device described above.

I'll try to hunt up a picture.

What about three wheeled velocars?

http://www.pedalcars.info/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2508&PN=1


Here are some other links to pedal car makers.

http://www.bhsi.org/fourwhel.htm

Given the amount of attention a four wheel multi seat bicycle will get, I think it would be unfortunate to be told that your vehicle isn't street-legal. Bicycles are generally allowed on public roads but most of the times that I've read a legal definition of a bicycle, it has specified that a bicycle must have two to three wheels. Check your laws.

It's true that each state needs to be checked for their own laws. For instance, here in Alabama a bicycle can be either a two wheeled vehicle or a four wheeled vehicle and expressly does NOT include a three wheeled vehicle - that is powered solely by human power.

It's also forbidden to attach a bicycle to another vehicle (attaching it to another bicycle would therefore be illegal).

Therefore in Alabama you would either need multiple independent bicycles, or a quad.

P.S. Thanks for the link on the French Mochet Velocar. I bet that could easily be modified for two wheels in the back, and I like that the middle legs flow together (would make a great narrow car and help transmit the power evenly to the rear "wheels"). It's also interesting to google them and read a bit further. I learned that recumbent bikes are typically faster as long as there are no hill inclines (my guess is the riding posture is no longer beneficial). To get the best of both worlds, a design could be implemented where you could switch from a standard cycling position to that of a recumbent cycling position. Do that and we'd have a new modern marvel learning from the designs of the old on our hands. Guess I'll mention that in the framebuilders forum.

This will not replace a family automobile. It will not be capable of going up any but the slightest grade, it will travel at near walking speed on flat terrain, it will have a range of only a few miles at most, it still won't haul much weight or volume, and there really would be no place it would be safe or practical to drive. Living car-free requires an adjustment to your life. If you can't make the adjustment, and must have a car, you would be better off getting a real car.

It's funny. The arguments you make against this idea are pretty much the exact arguments that my family and friends used to try to convince me to keep my car when I was first considering going car free. Think recumbent tandem with a rain cover, some cargo space and kid's seat.

I've seen variations on this which, I think, might work better. A group of 4 bicycles travels together with a common platform holding cargo. The bikes are somehow lashed together, usually at the top tube. I've seen this configuration among riders on local bike trails. The group was carrying tools to clean up a bike path, as well as some beer and a stereo...

They were able to travel pretty quickly... unlike the device described above.

I'll try to hunt up a picture.


Somehow I got visions of a stagecoach pulled by a team of bicyclists.

I've seen variations on this which, I think, might work better. A group of 4 bicycles travels together with a common platform holding cargo. The bikes are somehow lashed together, usually at the top tube. I've seen this configuration among riders on local bike trails. The group was carrying tools to clean up a bike path, as well as some beer and a stereo...

They were able to travel pretty quickly... unlike the device described above.

I'll try to hunt up a picture.
I've noticed a seven-person bicycle riding around Toronto:
Here's someone else's pic of it:
http://twitpic.com/eptjl

But for a family of four, I would probably go for at least two bikes, either one adult carrying both children or one adult and one child per bike - either using trail-a-bike or trailer or carrier seat or tandem where the child can pedal too, depending on age.

Assuming both adults are capable of biking of course.

A bakfiets is also a neat way of carrying cargo and/or some young children - if you google it you'll find lots of interesting examples particularly in the Netherlands.

I was picturing the mobile concert/band stage that Lucas Brunelle has a video of pulling awhile ago.

Somehow I got visions of a stagecoach pulled by a team of bicyclists.


I've noticed a seven-person bicycle riding around Toronto:
Here's someone else's pic of it:
http://twitpic.com/eptjl

But for a family of four, I would probably go for at least two bikes, either one adult carrying both children or one adult and one child per bike - either using trail-a-bike or trailer or carrier seat or tandem where the child can pedal too, depending on age.

Assuming both adults are capable of biking of course.

A bakfiets is also a neat way of carrying cargo and/or some young children - if you google it you'll find lots of interesting examples particularly in the Netherlands.

Sorry.. I wasn't very descriptive and I couldn't locate a photo either. Basically, it was like a car, but at each corner of the vehicle was a bicycle. Holding all 4 bikes was a platform lashed at the top tubes (I think). The platform held cargo, mostly beer and a big stereo. Of course you needed 4 cyclists to power it and I have no idea how it cornered... I haven't seen it around lately. Some local engineer cooked it up. It looked cool and was fast enough, but you need 3 friends wherever you went.

It's funny. The arguments you make against this idea are pretty much the exact arguments that my family and friends used to try to convince me to keep my car when I was first considering going car free. Think recumbent tandem with a rain cover, some cargo space and kid's seat.

Any pictures of you with your car free family, or any other family who has replaced the family car with their Quadracycle or similar "replacement"?

Any pictures of you with your car free family, or any other family who has replaced the family car with their Quadracycle or similar "replacement"?

Here's a mostly human family with a quadracycle:

http://www.gvzoo.com/files/u2/Easter_bunny_with_kids_on_quadra_cycle.jpg

Sightseeing at the zoo is apropos of an environment where a quadracycle could realistically replace the family car for a family; for a few hours anyway.

Here's an option that works well for us... a tandem recumbent trike.

When the boys were smaller, the whole family rode together. Now that they pedal, we have reconfigured, and it gives us the flexibility to have just one adult with both kids if necessary.

BTW it is an Organic Engine Troika, Bobike child seats, and Burley Tag-along

Here's an option that works well for us... a tandem recumbent trike.

Very nice and looks like a lot of family fun. :thumb:

Did it replace your family car? :innocent:

It has all spring and most of the summer... then we needed to go on vacations so we got plates for the car again. We will probably take it off the road again, and have it off until the winter.

It has all spring and most of the summer... then we needed to go on vacations so we got plates for the car again. We will probably take it off the road again, and have it off until the winter.

My bicycle or feet "replace" my car too; except when I use my car.

Here's an option that works well for us... a tandem recumbent trike.

It's great that you are opening your kids' minds to the concept that cars are just one of many transportation tools, not a necessity.

My bicycle or feet "replace" my car too; except when I use my car.

My bike, feet and bus replace a car all the time. Why so negative, dude?

Here's an option that works well for us... a tandem recumbent trike.

When the boys were smaller, the whole family rode together. Now that they pedal, we have reconfigured, and it gives us the flexibility to have just one adult with both kids if necessary.

BTW it is an Organic Engine Troika, Bobike child seats, and Burley Tag-along

That's a nice solution for a family car replacement. I hope ILTB takes note of it. I imagine that as the kids get older, they'll each have their own bike for family trips?

They each have their own bikes already. The family bike keeps us together and relatively safe on roads with (minimal) traffic.

My bike, feet and bus replace a car all the time. Why so negative, dude?
IMO, Replace a FAMILY car means replace THE car (YA KNOW LIKE GET RID OF IT) not just temporarily park it on those occasions when a bicycle provides suitable transportataion for entertainment purposes. At least that applies if one is talking seriously about family transportation, not just smoking pixie dust.

IMO, Replace a FAMILY car means replace THE car (YA KNOW LIKE GET RID OF IT) not just temporarily park it on those occasions when a bicycle provides suitable transportataion for entertainment purposes. At least that applies if one is talking seriously about family transportation, not just smoking pixie dust.

If you dont use the car 98% of the time then yes, it is functionally replaced. What the hell are you talking about, "when the bicycle provides suitable transportation for entertainment purposes?" He already said he uses the bike for all his needs except for his vacation. Even if he used it only 25% of the time then I would think that its still fulfilling more than "entertainment purposes."

We get it, you have an agenda. Lets move on.

IMO, Replace a FAMILY car means replace THE car (YA KNOW LIKE GET RID OF IT) not just temporarily park it on those occasions when a bicycle provides suitable transportataion for entertainment purposes. At least that applies if one is talking seriously about family transportation, not just smoking pixie dust.

Wow. Hostility... interesting. Well I'm all ears for someone who can lead by example... do you have young children? Do you let your kindergardener bike 2 miles to school in sub-0 degree weather? What is the difference between renting a car to go on vacation, and owning one that you license and insure just for the same time period?

I do think that the tandem trike could work 100% of the time for a family that has made slightly different life choices than we have. Ideally, they would live a little further south, and not be interested in taking vacations. Currently the winter and vacations are the only obstacles we have been unable to reconcile. Also, we had to borrow a neighbors car a couple of times to go to the Emergency Room...

Redrom, I think you correctly identified hostility from I-Like-To-Bike but you didn't correctly identify to whom it was directed. He likes to complain about the car free people, not the car owners.


Ideally, they would live a little further south, and not be interested in taking vacations.

My family lived car free in Aniak, Alaska for two years while the three of us children were within the 2 year to 12 year age-range. Among a great many car-free people who spend significant amounts of time outdoors in the winter. And took vacations. (We grew up with very different expectations about whether owning a car might be useful for a vacation - no roads were available to drive more than 5 miles from home, but we knew plenty of people who would travel by airplane.)

This is not to say that you should try living car free with several small children if you don't want to. But it is possible, and it's possible to do so in a fun and healthy way. Of that I am sure.

IMO, Replace a FAMILY car means replace THE car (YA KNOW LIKE GET RID OF IT) not just temporarily park it on those occasions when a bicycle provides suitable transportataion for entertainment purposes. At least that applies if one is talking seriously about family transportation, not just smoking pixie dust.

Some families choose to keep a car, but replace it with a bike for many or most of their errands and leisure trips.

I have no idea what they're smoking, but i want some.

I do think that the tandem trike could work 100% of the time for a family that has made slightly different life choices than we have. Ideally, they would live a little further south, and not be interested in taking vacations. Currently the winter and vacations are the only obstacles we have been unable to reconcile....

In Traverse City, Mich. I see a number of families riding their kids to school throughout the winter, and I've also seen them shopping with children at grocery stores in the winter. They might not be carfree, but they're certainly replacing the car for shopping and school commutes. ;) Traverse City is a rather ritzy community in northern Michigan that is in the lake effect snow zone.

I haven't seen this much in Lansing, where I live, even though we're further south and get a lot less snow. (However, I believe a member of this forum does ride with her kids in Lansiing all winter--I just never saw her.)

And for vacations, it depends on what your family likes to do. Flying (or taking a train or bus) to a single destination like a resort, ski slope or big city would be very practical for a carfree family vacation. Road trips and camping probably require a car, at least until the kids are old enough to tour on bikes.

Are you expecting the kids to help pedal? I'm thinking two bikes + two kid seats. Or (what we're considering when we get the third kid), two Madsen Bucket bikes.

Don't get me wrong, I would love a Surrey Deluxe Limo. But two Madsens seems, to me, far more practical. (or two CetmaCargo / Bakifet / Big Dummy / Joe Bike {which looks awesome, BTW**)

We won't get rid of our family car when we go to this. Especially in horrible weather (though I'd go out by myself and my definition of horrible is probably different than most), but it will let us go extrememly car lite.

I've noticed a seven-person bicycle riding around Toronto:
Here's someone else's pic of it:
http://twitpic.com/eptjl

Okay, that was so cool! The link of me in my signature is me pulling/riding with all 4 of my kids, but this one you linked to is way cooler!

Hey, fyi, Madsen is giving away a free cargo bike (holds up to 4 kids/adults and can come with a cap for rain). They're giving away one a week, so your chances are pretty good to just win one! (Although if you buy one & then win, they'll refund your $ AND give you a free one to give away or sell!!!) http://www.madsencycles.com/?utm_source=LinkContestB200x300&utm_medium=banner&utm_campaign=LinkContestQ209
(http://www.madsencycles.com/?utm_source=LinkContestB200x300&utm_medium=banner&utm_campaign=LinkContestQ209)

Here's mamaC:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3582/3455569789_7d86335b14.jpg

So cool! :thumb:

Are you seeing this, ILTB? It looks like they're replacing a car with a bike. :p

Here's mamaC:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3582/3455569789_7d86335b14.jpg

It looks like they're replacing a car with a bike. :p

How could they? They don't appear to be swilling gasoline and dumping hydrocarbons into the air.

Here's mamaC:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3582/3455569789_7d86335b14.jpg

So cool! :thumb:

Are you seeing this, ILTB? It looks like they're replacing a car with a bike. :p

Using Roody™ Brand Logic, everybody "replaces" a car with a bike everytime they use a bike to go anywhere; if you think your silliness answers the mail, enjoy. If thinking/debating like a doofus works for you, you will always be right and win every argument.

BTW, are those Mama C's family cars in the picture? I suspect a van is more likely mama's ride when it come to hauling the family farther than around the neighborhood, especially in unpleasant weather, doncha think?

I've always found the Rhoades car intriguing. Often thought it would be possible to mount batteries and a solar charging system on it to essentially make it an electric assisted pedal car. I think for intown use, something like this could be quite handy for short errands such as grocery store runs. It wouldn't work for everyone, but it would make sense for some.

Here's mamaC:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3582/3455569789_7d86335b14.jpg

So cool! :thumb:

Are you seeing this, ILTB? It looks like they're replacing a car with a bike. :p

Ha! Thanks! It of course depends on who is defining 'replace'. Hold on, let me get out my can opener and open the can of worms. With a family of 6 living in the cold wet rainy snowy midwest, total replacement just can't happen... unless it involved a time machine and reliable birth control. So in my case, I replace the 'family' car as much as I can with my bike. We ride to get ice cream, groceries, visit the library, run errands, visit friends, go to the park, etc. For trips to the ER, longer jaunts and any time the weather is really bad -- we use our (Yes, I-like-to-bike) van.

I lurk in this forum a lot, because I learn a lot from you all! While total car-free isn't possible for me right now, my goal is to be as car-free as possible. :)


BTW, are those Mama C's family cars in the picture? I suspect a van is more likely mama's ride when it come to hauling the family farther than around the neighborhood, especially in unpleasant weather, doncha think?

Nope, those are my neighbor's cars. Van and a eco friendly compact are in my garage... parked there as much as possible.

Ha! Thanks! It of course depends on who is defining 'replace'. Hold on, let me get out my can opener and open the can of worms. With a family of 6 living in the cold wet rainy snowy midwest, total replacement just can't happen... unless it involved a time machine and reliable birth control. So in my case, I replace the 'family' car as much as I can with my bike. We ride to get ice cream, groceries, visit the library, run errands, visit friends, go to the park, etc. For trips to the ER, longer jaunts and any time the weather is really bad -- we use our (Yes, I-like-to-bike) van.

I lurk in this forum a lot, because I learn a lot from you all! While total car-free isn't possible for me right now, my goal is to be as car-free as possible. :)


Nope, those are my neighbor's cars. Van and a eco friendly compact are in my garage... parked there as much as possible.

No excuses necessary, mama c for hauling your healthy looking family by the preferred or most practical means as determined by you. Not as sanctioned by a handful of single guys smoking pixie dust at their keyboards, giving advice about "replacing the family car;" advisers with no personal experience with family transportation and who have no responsibility to transport anything more valuable than themselves and some cat litter or a six pack back to their apartment, parent's basement or some other type of bachelor pad.

I've always found the Rhoades car intriguing. Often thought it would be possible to mount batteries and a solar charging system on it to essentially make it an electric assisted pedal car. I think for intown use, something like this could be quite handy for short errands such as grocery store runs. It wouldn't work for everyone, but it would make sense for some.

That would work fine with a little infrastructure. Last year LCF poster Fairmont described the golf cart trails in Peachtree City, Georgia:


...Anyway, Peachtree City, Georgia is a city of 35,000 people who all have one thing in common: Cart paths. The entire city is a network of smooth paved asphalt paths that connect EVERY school, store, neighborhood, business, and these roads are independent of the regular roads that cars use.

Seriously, you can get to every single building in this town using an electric-powered golf cart or bike (or skateboard or scooter or feet). No gas motors are allowed (except on some golf carts--but those are rare), so we have a quiet, environmentally-friendly community with hundreds of miles of bike paths...

That would work fine with a little infrastructure. Last year LCF poster Fairmont described the golf cart trails in Peachtree City, Georgia:

Just a "little" infrastructure? How would you plan to drop that "little" infrastructure in on any built up US city that provides significant employment for the people who live there?

Didn't sound like anybody but a handful of famiy people in Peachtree City could afford to replace their family car if they weren't independently wealthy or could work from home and seldom went farther than the range of their golf cart or the city limits. I don't suppose too many of those Delta pilots and Airport employees have replaced their family car yet with pedal power.

From a family standpoint, you'd have to call me 'car-lite', as my sister & her hubby (who live w/ me) have cars. I don't drive, though -- been behind the wheel 1x this year. I pedal or ride the bus.

I honestly think we'd do as well, or even better, from a daily standpoint, if internal combustion took the form I think it should...that of nothing larger than a motorcycle engine for personal transport. The old, corporately-buried Tri-Hawk proved the concept, as did the kit-available FireAero -- motorcycle frames fitted with two-wheel front ends and 2-4 seats. Anything up to 125 miles could be handled this way, and an improvement in mass transit could take care of further distances, or maybe even rentals.

Just my 2c.......

Using Roody™ Brand Logic, everybody "replaces" a car with a bike everytime they use a bike to go anywhere; if you think your silliness answers the mail, enjoy. If thinking/debating like a doofus works for you, you will always be right and win every argument.

BTW, are those Mama C's family cars in the picture? I suspect a van is more likely mama's ride when it come to hauling the family farther than around the neighborhood, especially in unpleasant weather, doncha think?

If somebody rides a bike on a trip where they would otherwise have driven a car, they are indeed replacing the car. Look it up (http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3Areplace&rls=com.microsoft:*&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&startIndex=&startPage=1).


"To supply or substitute an equivalent for; To take the place of; to supply the want of; to fulfil the end or office of"

P.S. the personal insults are uncalled for. I have not insulted you, although I very much want to. :D

Just a "little" infrastructure? How would you plan to drop that "little" infrastructure in on any built up US city that provides significant employment for the people who live there?
.

A lot of cities have passed Complete Street ordinances, and similar legislation. This calls for a gradual addition of infrastructure for cycling and walking as streets are added or repaved. In the case of my city, planners must consider spending 5 % of any streets project on bike and pedestrian infrastructure.

Yes, it will take many years or even decades for this work to be finished but improvements can be seen almost immediately. This is a very good time for cities and counties to adopt Complete Streets, since so much stimulus money is now being allocated for street repairs.

If somebody rides a bike on a trip where they would otherwise have driven a car, they are indeed replacing the car. Look it up (http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3Areplace&rls=com.microsoft:*&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&startIndex=&startPage=1).


"To supply or substitute an equivalent for; To take the place of; to supply the want of; to fulfil the end or office of"

By the same logic/parsing of definitions, everybody is "car free" whenever they are not physically using a car. Ya think anybody here would use that definition unless they were deliberately trying to be obtuse? Try reading the OP and see if your out of context use of the word "replace" fits this thread.

The opinion on velomobile/recumbent forums seems to be that four wheels is a dead-end. Three wheels is much more efficient than four, in terms of simple weight as well as frame design practicality.
~

Just a "little" infrastructure? How would you plan to drop that "little" infrastructure in on any built up US city that provides significant employment for the people who live there?Same way we made everything car accessible - a little at a time, do the easiest parts first.

The opinion on velomobile/recumbent forums seems to be that four wheels is a dead-end. Three wheels is much more efficient than four, in terms of simple weight as well as frame design practicality.
~

I hadn't noticed any such bias when I hang out there. I'm not sure you can presume to speak for those forums.

For multi-rider vehicles other than tandem bikes and large cargos, I don't think that 4 wheels can be beaten. I think that each area will find its appropriate vehicles.

For multi-rider vehicles other than tandem bikes and large cargos, I don't think that 4 wheels can be beaten. I think that each area will find its appropriate vehicles.

Consider existing vehicles in the class. The cargo carrying bicycles in China, are basically long tricycles with a pick up style bed. The bicycle taxis all over the world, even here in the US, are generally three wheeled.

The market for heavy load carrying bicycles has chosen three wheels.