Electronics, Lighting, & Gadgets - Has anyone tried the Magicshine 900 lumen?

Someone posted a link in the Commuter forum to a 900-lumen LED light called Magicshine. They only cost $90 for the light, charger and battery. The light has 3 settings -- 900 lumens, 500 lumens and SOS flash with a 3 to 4.5 hour run time. Even if the light output is not as high as claimed, this sounds like a great deal if the quality is good.

Has anyone here tried these lights? Can you provide any info on the quality of construction, durability, brightness and beam pattern? Here's a link to the site:

http://www.geomangear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=4_41&products_id=138

There are a lot of technical threads on it over at the mtbr DIY lighting section. Below is a link to one of them.

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=527707

Thanks for the link. Much of the info is way over my head but useful nonetheless.

I have one on order and will have it this afternoon. I don't have a lot of lights to compare it to but I will do beam shots with comparison to a Dinotte 200L, and I'll comment on construction and general impressions. I'll look for a thread here or start a new one.

From the mtbr.com link, it evidently uses a crappy bin (i'm thinking should be a reject) P7 emitter which produces a green tint.

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa46/amticoman/DX%20LIGHT/DXLIGHT033.jpg

Folks have dissected them and reported the usual DX low quality construction.

I have read a couple comments recently that the light is now the more typical P7 white tint, but I have not seen any beamshots to substantiate these claims.

Just yesterday I inquired about the Magicshine from Geoman, regarding the green tint situation; no reply so far.

I'm looking forward to ItsJustMe's review on his new purchase.

From the mtbr.com link, it evidently uses a crappy bin (i'm thinking should be a reject) P7 emitter which produces a green tint.


Just got mine - hasn't been out on a night ride yet, but I have done a comparison with my Fenix and my Dinotte 200L.

Doesn't look greenish at all. If anything it has a warmer yellow tint compared to the two other lights.

No one would be surprised if I said it wasn't really 900 lumens on high. But it does appear to be brighter than the combined beam of my Fenix and the Dinotte - which is all I was looking for really.

I got my MagicShine P7 system from GeoMan on Friday, and spent a lot of time Saturday checking it out. I posted my impressions, a bunch of photos and a video here:

http://johnridley.livejournal.com/266955.html

Keep in mind I wrote it for a mixed audience of friends, some of whom are very much newbies about bikes and lights. The video doesn't show much about the headlight but it does show the superflash and Dinotte taillight.

Oh, and it totally makes the Dinotte 200L look like a candle. It completely swamps the Dinotte, and is significantly brighter even in low mode.

Thanks ItsJustMe for the feedback on the Magicshine.

Your linked pics don't show any green tint to my eyes. I couldn't see the donut hole you referred to. I have a Shining Beam PLI mce flashlight and it has a terrible donut hole. I don't want anymore of those. My DX P7 flashlights have a superior, uniform beam to the SB PLI.

Is the Magicshine's strobe actually 3 hz (3 strobes per second)? If so, this could be very useful as a daytime headlight. Most of the Chinese/Taiwanese P7/mce flashlights have a 10hz strobe, which is really fast and attention grabbing. I'm worried it's so fast that some LEO might harass me over it. I think 3hz would be more suitable for daytime headlight use.

What kind of taillight is that in your video (the slow, bright flasher)?

BTW, here's a link to a guy at CPF with a test rig for flashlights. His tests indicate the brightest P7/mce lights top out at 500 lumens, and most are in the 300-400 range. So, that whole common P7/900 lumens claim by sellers' everywhere is gross exaggeration.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=229135

It's a sweet light. Ordered mine from Geomangear.com last Friday and he shipped it Saturday, that is some awesome customer service. Had it in my hands Monday morning and I've been on 3 night rides this week with it. Very happy so far. Puts out tons of light and my example does not have a donut hole or a green tint that I've seen in some of the beam shots. I'm not a light geek so I don't know about drivers, lumens, or any of that stuff. All I can say is that I'm very satisfied with the amount of light, build quality, and run time. I plan on getting another when Geoman is back in stock.

Awfully rough looking reflector. Shouldn't it be mirror smooth for optimal light projection??

Awfully rough looking reflector. Shouldn't it be mirror smooth for optimal light projection??

Many people have found that a rough, or 'orange peel' reflector produces a much smoother beam at a minor expense to throw. Many modern LED lights have an OP reflector.

Many people have found that a rough, or 'orange peel' reflector produces a much smoother beam at a minor expense to throw. Many modern LED lights have an OP reflector.

helps to reduce or eliminate the rings in the light and also any dead spots.

Awfully rough looking reflector. Shouldn't it be mirror smooth for optimal light projection??

No, they rough it up on purpose. Many DIYers who have started with smooth reflectors have roughed them up on purpose. Smooth reflectors result in an intense central cone with little spill, which you generally do not want in a headlight, and also any little imperfection in the output of the LED can result in weird artifacts in the beam; having a textured finish smooths out the beam.

It would be simpler for them to have a smooth finish, so the fact that they're adding the texture means that it's there for a reason.

Your linked pics don't show any green tint to my eyes. I couldn't see the donut hole you referred to. I have a Shining Beam PLI mce flashlight and it has a terrible donut hole. I don't want anymore of those. My DX P7 flashlights have a superior, uniform beam to the SB PLI.

The donut hole is visible to the eyes but it's so weak that I had trouble taking a good picture of it, so it's not much to worry about. I didn't notice any particular green cast either. It looks very white to me.


Is the Magicshine's strobe actually 3 hz (3 strobes per second)? If so, this could be very useful as a daytime headlight. Most of the Chinese/Taiwanese P7/mce flashlights have a 10hz strobe, which is really fast and attention grabbing. I'm worried it's so fast that some LEO might harass me over it. I think 3hz would be more suitable for daytime headlight use.

I didn't actually time the light, I was just eyeballing it and it seemed to me that it was flashing at about 3 hz. I may shoot some video and play it back slowly to know for sure. At least they've gotten rid of the useless SOS mode that apparently they had early on.


What kind of taillight is that in your video (the slow, bright flasher)?

Dinotte 140L. It has three modes; one is about a 1/4 second bright flash about once a second, the other is what you saw there, a bright flash every 1/2 second or so and low the rest of the time. The third mode I use in bad conditions or in the daylight, it's 5 rapid bright flashes in about 1/2 second, then about 1/2 second on low. That gets the attention.

I figured the light was putting out probably 600 lumens max, probably more like 500, but hey, it's way the hell brighter than the Dinotte 200L I have (want to buy one?) and costs less, even though the Dinotte was bought on sale and didn't include batteries or charger.

Thanks for posting the review, John. The light looks like a great deal if it holds up. My biggest concern would be the mount. Does it look like you could switch out a longer bolt for the clamp fairly easily?

Thanks for posting the review, John. The light looks like a great deal if it holds up. My biggest concern would be the mount. Does it look like you could switch out a longer bolt for the clamp fairly easily?

You certainly could, I assume you mean to mount it to something thicker? You wouldn't want the screw to penetrate inside the light very far.
My only concern really is whether the plastic will break. If the screw loosens up I'll just put some loctite on it. It'd be nice if they had a mount that could adjust side to side, I didn't mention that in the review. That's a deal killer for handlebar mount for some folks.

be nice if they had a mount that could adjust side to side, I didn't mention that in the review

well they don't, but this guy does

he's a regular poster over at mtbr.com

i'm thinking about his diy marwi p7 kit

scroll down about half way for a magicshine hardmount with lateral adjustment

http://www.el34world.com/Misc/bike/BikesLights1.htm

well they don't, but this guy does

he's a regular poster over at mtbr.com

i'm thinking about his diy marwi p7 kit

scroll down about half way for a magicshine hardmount with lateral adjustment

http://www.el34world.com/Misc/bike/BikesLights1.htm

Yeah, I found that yesterday. I'll mention it to my friend who was thinking about one of these but needs the adjustment. I really don't need it myself, my bars have a couple of bends and I can get any positioning I want by moving it back and forth across the bend.

I think people are a little rough on this light, take into consideration the output vs cost.. This is a 100.00 light that puts out as much light as an HID.. It looks like NR has come out with a dual P7 and they are priced well over 500.00.. I imagine other manufacturers will follow using the P7 as a new light with phenomenal output..

How is the burn time in relation to what they state.. Does it get close to the 3 hours as stated for high mode?

i bought an airbike everlight from geoman.

900 lumens too.

apparently its better. it works great. 200 bucks.

Better in what regard? I'm curious as I am contemplating both lights.

i bought an airbike everlight from geoman.

900 lumens too.

apparently its better. it works great. 200 bucks.

Better how? Same LED (P7), both LiIon, same runtime. OK, it has one more brightness mode, but OTOH no blink mode, a helmet mount and the battery is in a plastic case instead of shrink wrapped. Doesn't seem like they're really much different at all, certainly not enough to well over double the price.

its better than the last light he bought...

Better how? Same LED (P7), both LiIon, same runtime. OK, it has one more brightness mode, but OTOH no blink mode, a helmet mount and the battery is in a plastic case instead of shrink wrapped. Doesn't seem like they're really much different at all, certainly not enough to well over double the price.
I'd assume better build quality, although MagicShine seems to have improved a bit from what I've read.

its better than the last light he bought...
:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:

I too have one on order. Will get comparison shots between my MS-P7 / 400L / Upgraded Minewt P4 once I recieve it. Its on backorder so it may take me a few weeks to get test shots.

I'd assume better build quality, although MagicShine seems to have improved a bit from what I've read.

They certainly appear to have improved a lot since the first reviews I saw in April. I had my first ride in complete darkness and rain this morning, and I must say that I am very happy with it. It puts out as much light as my HID did. I guess it's always possible that the light will fail on me in some way but it looked pretty clean and well built when I pulled mine apart.

How is the burn time in relation to what they state.. Does it get close to the 3 hours as stated for high mode?

I took it on two rides totaling 2.5 hours before recharging it and the light showed no signs of dimming and the status LED was still green. I have no doubt that it'll get 3 hours of run time easily in high mode.

How is the burn time in relation to what they state.. Does it get close to the 3 hours as stated for high mode?

I charged mine up and then ran it until it quit. 3 hours, 5 minutes. It will probably get a little better after "exercising" the battery for a few charges. I plan to test it again this weekend (because the low battery indicator apparently has to "learn" the battery, like the indicators in laptop computers do).

Also I plan to test the light with the battery in the freezer at 0*F, because a lot of my light usage happens with the battery in cold temps. I'm going to test it once popping it in the freezer and running it for 50 minutes, then turning it off, letting it warm up, repeating (this simulates my usage if I bring the battery in at night), and also putting the thing fully charged in, letting it cool for 2 hours, then test the run time. This will test my usage if I leave the battery on the bike at night.

I charged mine up and then ran it until it quit. 3 hours, 5 minutes. It will probably get a little better after "exercising" the battery for a few charges. I plan to test it again this weekend (because the low battery indicator apparently has to "learn" the battery, like the indicators in laptop computers do).

Also I plan to test the light with the battery in the freezer at 0*F, because a lot of my light usage happens with the battery in cold temps. I'm going to test it once popping it in the freezer and running it for 50 minutes, then turning it off, letting it warm up, repeating (this simulates my usage if I bring the battery in at night), and also putting the thing fully charged in, letting it cool for 2 hours, then test the run time. This will test my usage if I leave the battery on the bike at night.

You might want to use a digital thermometer for monitor the exact temperature -- if that's important to you I mean. Some freezers run colder than 0 F to ensure that everything placed in there freezes.

You might want to use a digital thermometer for monitor the exact temperature -- if that's important to you I mean. Some freezers run colder than 0 F to ensure that everything placed in there freezes.

I will, of course, use a digital remote-read thermometer in the freezer. Right now I'm doing a multi-day test - Charged Wednesday, 40 minutes thursday, friday and today. Tonight I'm going to run it dead and see if I still got somewhere around 3 hours of runtime even though I didn't use all the juice at once right after charging.

I'll probably do the cold test next weekend; I don't have the time in one night to top off the battery and then monitor a full run-down to zero.

Greetings all and thanks for your support.

More Magicshines will arrive this week (ETA 9/2/2009).

BTW, we'll have "Y" cables and helmet mounts within about 2 weeks.

Every improvement we've mentioned to Magicshine has been met with enthusiasm and they've done them all.

Ride on!

Geo

I just tried a more extended test; I charged my Magicshine on Wednesday night, ran it 40 minutes Thursday, Friday and Monday mornings, then 40 minutes Monday afternoon, brought it into the house and it ran another 10 minutes (in front of a fan) before shutting off. So it appears that you get about 3:10 whether you charge it and use it right away, or use it over the course of several days.

I'll do the freezer test this weekend; this is important to me because I really need the light in the winter. In fact my freezer doesn't go down nearly cold enough for a real test; it only goes to 0*F and most winters I ride at least a few days at -10 and have ridden as low as -25. I'll be curious to see if I need to top the battery up every day at those temps.

Bring the light to your local grocer and ask a favor. The frozen food back storage room should do the trick.

Then again the stick the pack inside your your jersey pocket with a jacket over it works if the cord is long enough.

Greetings all and thanks for your support.

More Magicshines will arrive this week (ETA 9/2/2009).

BTW, we'll have "Y" cables and helmet mounts within about 2 weeks.

Every improvement we've mentioned to Magicshine has been met with enthusiasm and they've done them all.

Ride on!

Geo

UMMM, Why the Y cable?
Will two lights run off the one battery?
If so what would run time be?
Would cables be long enough for head and bars with the Y
or just double head?

Robert

I did some more testing of the light; put it on an amp meter. I've added the numbers to my review page at http://johnridley.livejournal.com/266955.html

Long story short: lamp draws 1.46 amps from the battery on high, only 0.5 amps on low. High gets 3:10 runtime, so low should give nearly 9 hours. I'm guessing 6 on strobe.

The pilot light in the back only draws 5.6 mA when the unit is off, so leaving it on for 24 hours should only kill 6 minutes of runtime. Not too bad, and I think I'll take the runtime hit rather than incurring all the extra wear of plugging and unplugging the battery pack an extra couple hundred times a year. Still, I'd rather that it didn't have a pilot light on when it was off.

I did some more testing of the light; put it on an amp meter. I've added the numbers to my review page at http://johnridley.livejournal.com/266955.html

Long story short: lamp draws 1.46 amps from the battery on high, only 0.5 amps on low. High gets 3:10 runtime, so low should give nearly 9 hours. I'm guessing 6 on strobe.

The pilot light in the back only draws 5.6 mA when the unit is off, so leaving it on for 24 hours should only kill 6 minutes of runtime. Not too bad, and I think I'll take the runtime hit rather than incurring all the extra wear of plugging and unplugging the battery pack an extra couple hundred times a year. Still, I'd rather that it didn't have a pilot light on when it was off.

Thanks very much for all the effort you put into that review. It's one of the most complete I've seen on the Magicshine. You ought to get a rebate from geoman.

I'm not surprised the light pulls only ~1500ma; hardly no one is building P7 lights with a driver regulating at the optimum 2800ma, which is required for the light to produce the mythical "900 lumens". They do this because they figure the resulting heat will damage the light. I believe you could drive it at 3A without problems as long as it's operating only when moving, to provide adequate cooling.

Take a look at the monster enclosures some of the DIYers over at mtbr build to handle the heat. A few of them test their lights on the bench to ensure adequate static cooling (worst case). I pointed out that moving 10mph has a dramatic effect on the the heat transfer - they hate hearing that after all that work and forum-wanking.

http://forums.mtbr.com/forumdisplay.php?f=124

I guesstimate the Magicshine probably produces light in the 300-400 lumen range (not purely a guess,see http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=229135 ). This is still adequate lighting for most bicyclists. I'm more concerned about the beam pattern and optical anomalies of the light. I've had 3 DX P7s - one works like a charm and the other 2 barely work at all, and their output was very inferior. I have a ShiningBeam PLI with MCE emitter and it makes a huge dark donut hole) a not uncommon characteristic of mce lights), plus cuts off at 3.55v, instead of claimed 2.7v, thus reducing usable battery life in half.

I ordered a MS; I hope mine looks as good as your garage door beam shot. I was inspired by your youtube video to order a 140R taillight too. I've been wanting one for a long time.

I'm not surprised the light pulls only ~1500ma; hardly no one is building P7 lights with a driver regulating at the optimum 2800ma, which is required for the light to produce the mythical "900 lumens".

I measured at the battery. That is NOT the right place to measure to estimate LED output, I was measuring there to estimate run time.

Current at the LED is certainly much higher, but I don't want to tear my light apart and unsolder stuff to measure it. I may get that brave eventually.

The controller is stepping 1.5 amps at 7.4 volts down to the drive voltage of the P7, which I think is 3.3 volts. Assuming that the driver is fairly efficient, it actually should be driving it at pretty close to 3 amps.

Thanks for all of the info. You've convinced me to order one.

Thanks for all of the info. You've convinced me to order one.

Me, too. Supposed to be in stock tomorrow...

Thanks for the info---I just ordered one too based on the info in this forum thread.

I currently have a Cygolite Trion (self-contained 600 lumens) and will post a comparison once I have both side to side.

Dan

I measured at the battery. That is NOT the right place to measure to estimate LED output, I was measuring there to estimate run time.

Current at the LED is certainly much higher, but I don't want to tear my light apart and unsolder stuff to measure it. I may get that brave eventually.

The controller is stepping 1.5 amps at 7.4 volts down to the drive voltage of the P7, which I think is 3.3 volts. Assuming that the driver is fairly efficient, it actually should be driving it at pretty close to 3 amps.

Yes, you have to break solder joint (or wire lead) past driver to measure current at LED. I assumed you had done this, and that the MS was regulated with a cheap DX flashlight style regulator, and was not actually 2400ma as specified.

http://www.geomangear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=4_41&products_id=138

# Lighting Modes: High Mode @ 900 lumens >> Low Mode @ 500 lumens >> SOS Mode (flash)
# Circuitry: Digital Regulated 2400mA Current Output
# Brightness: 900 lumens maximum brightness (manufacturer rated)

Nominal Vf for P7 is 3.6v, 4.2v max. I believe the emitter was engineered with 18650 lithium cell characteristics in mind.

I doubt stepping down 2S2P 6.8-8.4v down to 3.6v is very efficient. With all these drivers, the further apart on voltage, the lower the efficiency.

If it is in fact regulated at 2400ma, then the output from led should be ~770 lumen, based on interpretation of the chart included in SSC's P7 product spec (pdf download):

http://www.acriche.com/en/product/prd/zpowerLEDp7.asp

The optics (reflector, lens) diminish output significantly, so perhaps at best case the MS produces 600 lumen, which is still very high output for an LED.

When I get my MS I'll execute my most stringent test, eyeballing it on the road at 25mph.

I doubt stepping down 2S2P 6.8-8.4v down to 3.6v is very efficient. With all these drivers, the further apart on voltage, the lower the efficiency.

It should be. Heck, I've built step-down switching regulators myself out of just an op-amp, an inductor, a capacitor and a MOSFET that ran well over 90% efficient. I could draw 3 amps out of it to run my HID and it didn't even get warm. I'm sure someone who had actual voltage regulator experience and parts could do better. I'd be kind of surprised if they didn't hit > 95% efficiency on step-down.

Stepping UP voltage is harder, but stepping it down is pretty easy. As long as you're using a switcher circuit and a low-loss switching device like a MOSFET, efficiency should be pretty high.

Yes, you have to break solder joint (or wire lead) past driver to measure current at LED. I assumed you had done this,

No, the text pretty clearly says "at the battery."

My apologies, my reading and writing leave much to be desired.

Thanks again for sharing your evaluation of Magicshine.

If it is in fact regulated at 2400ma, then the output from led should be ~770 lumen, based on interpretation of the chart included in SSC's P7 product spec (pdf download):

http://www.acriche.com/en/product/prd/zpowerLEDp7.asp

The optics (reflector, lens) diminish output significantly, so perhaps at best case the MS produces 600 lumen, which is still very high output for an LED.


The part number in the Geoman site's specs for this light makes me believe the P7 is a C-bin (700-800 lumen @ 2800 mA). So it could be well below 770 lumens even before accounting for the lower current. Then, you also have to derate the output due to the junction temperature being above 25 C (somewhere between 10-20%, I'd say, guesstimating from the datasheet with reasonable assumptions about the junction temperature).

Throw all that together, and the actual LED output is probably in the 500-550 lumen range even before accounting for losses in the optics.

I still ordered one. :D

If your looking for a Magicshine headlight an alternate source is -
http://IWannaSpamBF.net
Same price, same light, but a different name. Available now.
Helmet mounts with extension cable will be available next week.

Please stop spamming the forum with these posts. The thread you started asking 'opinions' about the lights you are selling was bad enough. Thanks.

Greetings all and thanks for your support.

More Magicshines will arrive this week (ETA 9/2/2009).

BTW, we'll have "Y" cables and helmet mounts within about 2 weeks.

Every improvement we've mentioned to Magicshine has been met with enthusiasm and they've done them all.

Ride on!

Geo

As much as everyone says it's great to purchase through geomangear.com, my experience has been exactly the opposite! It's nice to buy from a U.S. supplier so that you can talk to that supplier if something goes wrong??? I doubt it. Geomangear.com "contact us" doesn't list a phone number so that you can actually talk with someone. The "live support" button has always shown that they are not online.

I received an e-mail from geomangear.com asking why I had not completed my purchase. I explained that each time I put in the credit card information the transaction would not be completed and I was asked to fill in the information on "required fields." I did complete the information only to be asked to complete it again. So... I never did "checkout" and I never did receive confirmation of my purchase. However, I did get charged a few times on my credit card! I have been patient. Nothing back from geomangear.com (I get a much better response from dealextreme.) I've disputed the charges on the credit card, I've reported the incident to the better business bureau in Washington State (I'll get to New Mexico next), I've reported this to the Washington State Attorney General's office, and in my e-mail to geomangear.com I also indicated that I would comment on this experience in bikeforums.net.

Anyway, just one guy's experience with geomangear.com....

Anyway, just one guy's experience with geomangear.com....

Huh. Well, I ordered on Wednesday afternoon and had my stuff on Friday. Didn't have to contact them so I can't say anything about that. Sounds like they have website problems.

Good luck getting that sorted out.

I've never had any trouble with DealExtreme either, but it has taken me up to 8 weeks to get stuff before, and I've never tried to contact them for support or returns either. I suspect returns to them would be an intensely unpleasant experience.

As much as everyone says it's great to purchase through geomangear.com, my experience has been exactly the opposite! It's nice to buy from a U.S. supplier so that you can talk to that supplier if something goes wrong??? I doubt it. Geomangear.com "contact us" doesn't list a phone number so that you can actually talk with someone. The "live support" button has always shown that they are not online.

I received an e-mail from geomangear.com asking why I had not completed my purchase. I explained that each time I put in the credit card information the transaction would not be completed and I was asked to fill in the information on "required fields." I did complete the information only to be asked to complete it again. So... I never did "checkout" and I never did receive confirmation of my purchase. However, I did get charged a few times on my credit card! I have been patient. Nothing back from geomangear.com (I get a much better response from dealextreme.) I've disputed the charges on the credit card, I've reported the incident to the better business bureau in Washington State (I'll get to New Mexico next), I've reported this to the Washington State Attorney General's office, and in my e-mail to geomangear.com I also indicated that I would comment on this experience in bikeforums.net.

Anyway, just one guy's experience with geomangear.com....

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm, do you work for DX by any chance? :crash:

I kid, I kid, I don't think any company is perfect but like others have said I would rather deal with the geo man than some chinese company!:innocent::thumb:

As much as everyone says it's great to purchase through geomangear.com, my experience has been exactly the opposite! It's nice to buy from a U.S. supplier so that you can talk to that supplier if something goes wrong??? I doubt it. Geomangear.com "contact us" doesn't list a phone number so that you can actually talk with someone. The "live support" button has always shown that they are not online.

I received an e-mail from geomangear.com asking why I had not completed my purchase. I explained that each time I put in the credit card information the transaction would not be completed and I was asked to fill in the information on "required fields." I did complete the information only to be asked to complete it again. So... I never did "checkout" and I never did receive confirmation of my purchase. However, I did get charged a few times on my credit card! I have been patient. Nothing back from geomangear.com (I get a much better response from dealextreme.) I've disputed the charges on the credit card, I've reported the incident to the better business bureau in Washington State (I'll get to New Mexico next), I've reported this to the Washington State Attorney General's office, and in my e-mail to geomangear.com I also indicated that I would comment on this experience in bikeforums.net.

Anyway, just one guy's experience with geomangear.com....

Greetings fellow riders and InTheRain too.

It's already sorted out. Within an hour of me hearing about this, a total of just two refunds were issued but this did not appease InTheRain, with great regret.

There was a network error that very well could have been our server but, just as fairly, it could have been InTheRain's. This has never happened before and I offered my sincerest apology. It is unfortunate and we've done everything to correct this situation. Again, we offer our sincere apology to InTheRain and hope this does not reflect poorly on the reputation we've strived so hard to achieve with the thousands of customers we've served since 1993.

Our mantra is to "astonish" our customers with our service. We try very hard.

Thank you for the soapbox.

Peace,

Geo