Classic & Vintage - 1952 Bianchi Specialissima

I need some quick advice!

NOTICE: I AM RESEARCHING DATE OF MANUFACTURE AND WILL CHANGE IT WHEN I DO FIND OUT TO WHAT IT REALLY IS....RIGHT NOW I DATE IT 52ISH BECAUSE OF PARTS ON IT.

I just got a 1952 Bianchi Specialissima from a really nice guy here in Houston for $150.00. He had it for 15 years hanging in his garage. The guy he got it from had it hanging in his garage...but was owned by his dad who has been deceased for decades. Hasn't been rode since atleast the early 70's. Tires are flat and paint is peeling...but shessshh....its all there and Campy to boot.

Link to pictures of it: http://www.flickr.com/photos/umpire54/sets/72157622146368588/


It is black with the chrome lugs and even has the exact same crank as on COPPI'S 1952 TDF bike. It has all Campy parts including hubs and early 52/53 Campy Gran Sport front and rear derailers. Again...lots of chrome. Christophe toe clips...Bianchi "B" pedals.

I know...I squirelled...but what to do now? I am polishing the chrome lugs and they are looking great. Should I paint it back to black...or would it be a sin to paint it another more modern color like 1992 Corvette metalic red...kind of pearlized?? I had a 69 Firebird I painted that color and it was beautiful.

I understand celeste was COPPI'S bike color but so many people have painted theirs to match that color too. I have read many forum whre others also say theirs was black as well and have seen some painted back nicely to black.

At the same time I respect opinions from guys who have been in the bike world way longer than I. I have only been into road bikes for about a month in which time I have acquired a Interclub Gitane and a Grand Sport Gitane. (both GRAPE) ($75 total for both) The Interclub is a hell of a bike btw. Pick one up if you see it...they are cheap and run like heck. What are your ideas on the paint fellas? Am I commiting a felony in the bike world if I paint it something other than what it was originally?

Thanks,

Umpire54

What are your ideas on the paint fellas? Am I commiting a felony in the bike world if I paint it something other than what it was originally?


You should make a thread with pictures.

Is the paint original? What is the condition? If it's original don't paint it unless you absolutely have to. If you do I would say keep it the original color.

You should make a thread with pictures.

Is the paint original? What is the condition? If it's original don't paint it unless you absolutely have to. If you do I would say keep it the original color.

+1

Start a new thread if you really want help.

If it's really a 50's Specialissima you should proceed with caution. That would be a very rare bike to find in the States and a re-paint or other mis-guided "restoration" attempts could do some real damage.

Let's see it.

Pictures coming. Thanks for your input and interest. I really would like to share with you guys. I have read the forum for over a month now and gotten some really good stories and ideas in general from it. Hope to start a new thread and have pics by tomorrow...maybe tonight.

Thanks guys,

umpire54

Actually...same thread...someone started this one for me and I do appreciate it! Have a great day guys!

Wow, sounds cool, i'm excited to see it. My vote is to not paint it unless it's actively rusting. I'd have trouble riding it for fear of something unexpected happening. Good thing you have two other nice bikes to putt around on.

I guess just be super-careful, whatever you do.

Hey guys...here are pictures of my 1952 Bianchi Specialissima.

She's rough but I'm glad to have her.

My Gitane Interclub and dog too! Enjoy!!

Have a great week!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/umpire54/sets/72157622146368588/

Wow.

That thing is gorgeous.

Might I suggest you take a look at this thread to help you :

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=403522

That one may be a bit past the "patina" stage but if the chrome is still good a re-finish would not be that big an issue. If it does need to be re-chromed do your homework and DON'T be cheap. Poor re-plating can really destroy a vintage racing bike like that.

I would stick with stock colors (black, Celeste, ?) and the correct repro decals.

How are you dating it to '52? Your pics do not really show too much detail but I think it may be a bit later than that? Mid to late 50's I would think, but again can't really see too much, and I do not know that era Campy stuff well enough to tell from the parts.

Anyway, a rare bike and worth re-building or restoring correctly. Take your time and enjoy the project, as a Bianchi fan I'm a bit jealous.

OTIS,

Thanks for your comments. The pics came out worse than it really looks in real life. Darker..nastier..lol.

To answer your question: I am using what I have available at this time...the internet and any pics I can find.

Man I have looked at a lot of pics...and I didn't notice some things till the second time around.
So far FAUSTO COPPI'S bike is most like mine and his is a 1952. Look at it...it is beat up and I am trying to track down how long he had it. Lots of times I read..."HIS BIKE". It is almost like I need to find out if he had any other bikes. I'm sure he did...but the pics always revert back to that one for the 52' TDF win and the GIRO. Where are his other bikes btw?? Mine looks like his more than others on the net...thats what I've found so far. I don't get where you are dating it later though? Why do you say that?

1) I am dating it by starting with the crank...look at the crank on my bike ...it is just like Coppi's
1952 bike. Look at the pic on the web of his bike and you will see what I mean. All other
Bianchi Specialissimas I have seen have been 1953-56 models. They have different cranks.

I have read on a website that the crank was made only one or two years. I'll have to find that
website name to put on here...it was a cool site with a lot of fancy cranks. They were friggin
awesome. Parts and production lines...you know how they are. Use new parts when the old
ones run out. Im guessing 1952-53 for that crank. I also need to find out how long COPPI rode
his bike...when he got it, etc. I am just wondering if he had it in 51...looking at it...and the
different derailluers they say he used...hmmm...when did he really get that bike? I'll try to find
the exact date if I can.

2) COPPI'S derailluers are the generation before mine, atleast the ones in the pics I have seen on
the internet. Articles state that he used other type of derailluers (note the saw marks on his
rear drop-outs using another brand of derailler that required the saw cuts on his frame rear drop
out area.

The 3rd Generation of Gran Sport derailluers on my bike came out in 1952/53. I have seen
articles stating both years. More research needed...but I feel confident the crank and derailluers
are from the 1952 period. Maybe at the end of the year 1951 for 52 sales???? Like
automobiles??? I don't know. I'll find out if I can.

This week I will try to link what websites I researched from. You know how it is...who knows if they are even really right.

I don't really care if someone proves my bike is a 1976...but right now it looks like COPPI got some of his parts from where my bike did in 1952...and the serial number starting with B2xxxx. I am guessing the 2 is for 52'.

I'm sure somewhere there is a record of S/N's sold back in the day....with my bikes numbers on it. I hope I can find it.

Have a good night.

I suggest trying to contact Ed Litton in Richmond CA. This link to his page in Classic Rendezvous gives his contact info. http://www.classicrendezvous.com/USA/Ed_Litton.htm

Ed is a builder, a frame repairer (he has done warranty work for a number of frame makers) and a frame painter (he did my 1967 Paramount). He also knows more about vintage high-end Bianchis than anyone else I know of. He was able to ID an old frame with a rattlecan paint job I've had for 35 years (I was young and stupid at the time) as an early 1960's Competizione after about one minute's inspection,and was able to tell me why he reached that conclusion without BS or posturing. This guy knows his stuff.

He is not always easy to get a hold of, but he is a very nice guy and loves vintage stuff. Once you get him talking, he is very geerous with information. He has a number of old Bianchis in varying stages of dress and undress, paint-wise - he showed me high-end Bianchi racing frame, 1940's vintage, stripped to bare metal, that was a thing of beauty. If anyone an give you good advice, he can.

Sell it to a collector

Hi Umpire54,

Interesting thread. I have had a look at your photos and, to me, your Bianchi looks to be most original. I think that might just help out giving you a smaller window to date the bike from. It appears that the seat post is a plain steel post with a clamp-on saddle clip at the top. I think that dates the bike pre-1956. It has Campy components and it is a top of the line Bianchi Specialissima. If it was post 1956 it would probably have the newly developed Campy steel seat post similar to the old Campy Nuovo Record post.

It is difficult to see the rear derailleur and tell its generation. This is done by measuring the spring cover ar the bottom of the parallelogram. The spring cover got wider as the generations developed. It looks like you removed the spring cover (and pulley wheels) for the photos. I think (from memory) the 2nd generation spring cover was 5mm wide while the third generation spring cover was about 8mm wide. As it is pretty original, I think a fairly accurate date may be possible when you look at components that may have changed during the 50's.

So, what do you do with this bike? You have found a real 'dream' bike. The price you paid was far below its real worth. The condition of the paint is really bad but you only get one chance at originality.

My advice: I'd keep it black;take photos; strip it down; clean it up piece by piece; search the internet, etc; leave it for a while; find out all you can about the bike's history from its previous owner; consider all your options; gain knowledge; then decide what should be done. There would be nothing worse than rushing into a recondition with a bike as valuable as yours.

I have tried to contact Bianchi factory in the past with questions about serial numbers. Even had a letter translated into Italian. The response was that no serial number records exist.

I have added a photo of my Bianchi of similar vintage. It looked like crap when I got it but I decided to just clean it up. It didn't have many decals but I painted them back onto the frame (I'm not a bad painter). Now you can get repro decals from cyclemondo (ebay) that are appropriate for your bike. With mine, I painted around the scratches and missing paint to make it look original. I don't know if I did the right thing though. Here it is. Other forum members will be sick and tired of seeing my Bianchi but I think you might appreciate it and it might help you decide what to do.

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x300/garyf5354/DSC00131.jpg

2) COPPI'S derailluers are the generation before mine, atleast the ones in the pics I have seen on
the internet. Articles state that he used other type of derailluers (note the saw marks on his
rear drop-outs using another brand of derailler that required the saw cuts on his frame rear drop
out area.

The 3rd Generation of Gran Sport derailluers on my bike came out in 1952/53. I have seen
articles stating both years. More research needed...but I feel confident the crank and derailluers
are from the 1952 period. Maybe at the end of the year 1951 for 52 sales???? Like
automobiles??? I don't know. I'll find out if I can.


The saw-tooth rear dropouts on Coppi's bike were for a Campagnolo Paris Roubaix derailleur that preceded (and then was available alongside) the Gran Sport. The Gran Sport on your Bianchi does not predate 1953, according to all of the reliable sources I've encountered.

It is difficult to see the rear derailleur and tell its generation. This is done by measuring the spring cover ar the bottom of the parallelogram. The spring cover got wider as the generations developed. It looks like you removed the spring cover (and pulley wheels) for the photos. I think (from memory) the 2nd generation spring cover was 5mm wide while the third generation spring cover was about 8mm wide. As it is pretty original, I think a fairly accurate date may be possible when you look at components that may have changed during the 50's.


The change in spring covers occurred within the third generation of Gran Sport derailleurs, i.e. 1953 or later. The OP's Gran Sport is distinguishable as third generation or later by its recessed pivot bolts. The reverse of the OP's Gran Sport does have the earlier "open C" in Campagnolo, which I believe makes it a relatively early third generation GS.

Thanks for the info guys...You guys are great.

This is why I got on this web site...I knew the contacts I made would be the kind of guys that care and want to help. I appreciate your time, interest, and effort to pass on information. Very very nice bike Gary, and thank you for your thoughts.

At first...I saw the bike as obviously needing restored back to what a bike should be, not letting it sit there as a relic. As I researched I realized it was an earlier model bike than I thought...so painting it 92 Corvette metallic red kinda went out the window. (hey...what can I say...I just wanted it to be different!! and it is a nice color) I now see the error of my ways of thinking.

I am doing as you said. Taking my time. I put the bike back together and set it in another room for now. I have gotten the name of a good chrome plater if needed...I know the forks will need to be plated. The lugs are going to be ok I think...and I'm looking for a good painter.

I have no qualms of moving the date of my bike to 1953...never have, and I will post it to whatever date it is nailed down to when I nail it down.

I am going down the road of tracking down information on the original owner. His son is alive and sold/gave?? the bike to the guy I got it from. I'm still surpised he sold it to me...he knew it was a 50's vintage because he told me so...I told him I thought it was 60's (after one night looking on the net). He even told me he was talking to someone who had researched it and said it was a 52/53.

I will try to get a hold of Ed Litton. BIKINGSHEARER...thanks for that info.
I'll keep ya posted. I did post the link to my flickr page...pics turned out dark but enjoy. This is a fun hobby...and a lot cheaper than muscle cars.

Have a great day,
umpire54

Umpire54.

Listen to Otis, he knows what his is talking about, and is probably one of the more learned
members when it comes to old bianchis.
One thing to remember is that parts may have been in a shop somewhere and not put on the bike
until years after they were put on the shelf. i.e. the derailleurs may say 52/53 but the frame itself
might not have been brazed/built until say 56.

As my mentor used to say to me " Go slow, be careful"
Marty

I am going to say, please don't paint that thing. Please! I ride a 1958 Olmo track bike, and I wouldn't think of repainting it. It is beat to hell, the chrome under the paint shows itself more every year, but I love it. I think if you repaint it you will miss the patina!

Go slow...gotcha!!

Otis...I appreciate his thoughts...More so I am asking why he said what he said??? He dated the bike to a later part of the decade for a reason so I was curious to what reason it was. I'm sure there was something there that made him pick that time frame.

I am new to the site...and everyone is very helpful. I don't care to piss off anyone or be thought of as the bad guy...but at the same time..I want to learn documented date/information and/or opinions with facts.

He kinda left me hanging with that conjecture so I asked what I thought was a fair question and was hoping for an explination. I will dig deeper and harder...this is the fun part. Bianchi used a hell of a lot of Campy parts early on. I'd think an expert on a brand would know stuff like that...down to a nut within a reasonable time frame window.

While I am new to bikes...
Example: I am a Pontiac nut. Researched my brains out for years on vintage Pontiacs - 1962-1981...GTO's, Judges, Firebirds, Trans AMs, etc. Heck...at one time I knew production model numbers for each year for about 19 years worth of cars, option numbers...what came with what, and what you couldn't get with what...etc. Motors, suspension, all aspects of the car for each year.

I gotta say...I knew more than most. I know that production lines got parts before they were supposed to, or kept feeding the lines till the old ones were used up - for up to almost a year due to slow sales sometimes. Production is an interesting thing when it comes to vehicles of any type I am finding. I'm sure bikes were the same.

So there is always a window of lasp we will never see because we weren't there in the factory. Also there were factory exceptions...buildups for demos, factory bosses, test cars,...etc.

I am sure it was the same for bikes and I am not saying mine is one...I am just saying I am trying to pin point this bike, the parts on it, and date of manufacture as close as possible. Thats all.

Just like I personally thoght it looked like a 60's bike till I saw the older parts on it. Therefore I am trying to figure this out. I have only been into vintage bikes for maybe 5 -6 weeks now...I know nothing...but I'm a fast study.

Sure...you can order parts put on at the bike shop...upgraded. Or you can buy it that way not knowing it was upgraded at the shop/dealer. Or you can buy it coming from the factory already loaded that way. That is exactly the kind of information I am looking for. Maybe with some research to the owners son if I can find him will help.

Have a great day guys!

umpire54

Very nice find. +1 on listening to Otis.

I am also a Bianchi fan; as such I had previously downloaded the PDFs of all the vintage Bianchi's posted on the L'Eroica (http://www.eroica.it/) web site.

To help the ID of your find, I've uploaded a zipped archive of the Bianchi's from 1950-1958 to my MobileMe site for download (http://files.me.com/rockyshores/sqkoxh) (direct link, 21.6MB).

Have fun.

stan

Umpire54.

Listen to Otis, he knows what his is talking about, and is probably one of the more learned
members when it comes to old bianchis.


Actually I have very little first hand experiance with any of the pre 70's bikes so please question any of my comments. Most of time I would hope they provoke more discussion and not be taken for fact. One thing about Reparto Bianchi's is a lot of times there's really no definitive answers to dating, etc.

Sure could have fooled me given some of the detailed responses I've seen you give here.
So, who do we send young umpire54 ( year younger than me?) to for more definitive answers
on this one?

Marty

I would send detailed pics and questions to the CR list, they may provide more info + more leads...

Sure could have fooled me given some of the detailed responses I've seen you give here.
So, who do we send young umpire54 ( year younger than me?) to for more definitive answers
on this one?

Marty

Citoyen du Monde. Unless the OP is fluent in japanese.

Otis...you are right. That is exactly what I am finding out as I read information sent to me by family belly (thank you)...and as usual...something that old...there are very little records around anymore.

Marty...I have learned all I know in about Bianchi in a week...when I saw this guy put the CL ad in...I had just seen a pic of a 1964's Bianchi the night before cruzing the websites. I stay up till three looking at this stuff. LOL...I'm 48...my detailed responses are lacking. I'll quit typing this stuff. I just did it because I was excited and wondering how old it was and what to do with it.

I was putting what little crap I know down so someone will either go yeah...he's right...or no...he's wrong. That way they can say Dude....here is what you really should really look at.

For 4 weeks before that I was researching: Peugots, Miyatas, Ralieghs, Pansonics, Fugis, Cressents, and those damn fine Torpados with tons of chrome.

Thats why I got excited over the 50's Bianchis with the chrome lugs and integrated headsets. It's pretty stuff!! and the closest thing to the yellow Torpado I couldn't afford on ebay last week. Nice sale btw RJ. That one will always haunt me.

Bianchi: What I learned in a week
The s/n's are all over the place...all their bikes look the same in they 50's...and I just got some bianchi data...hell...they used the same crank through the 50's starting in 1950 (maybe before that??) according to picture files I just looked at. The crank mfg. website I went to 3 days ago said mfgd only 2 years. I think they made a heck of a lot of cranks in that 2 years if they used them for the next 8 years or so. Also s/n go up down all around - less numbers/ more numbers...B in front and no B. Mine has s/n B245xxx. I don't know why mine is black.

Hey...my brain is being sucked out by the "Bianchi consumption" and I learning fast...but not fast enough.

Again...thanks for all of your help. <bowing humbly>

umpire54

I know an outstanding painter in Houston if you decide to get it painted. He sort of swore off "restoration" paint jobs a while ago in favor of one off custom jobs, but he just might make an exception for that beauty.

Most Bianchi bikes are covered in date codes, so verifying the year of production is generally quite simple. You should be able to check the cranks right near the BB axle hole on the inside (you need to remove the cranks to see the date code), the same goes for BB axle, headset removable races, sometimes bottom of fork crown, often lock nuts and cones of the hubs. If the bike is from the 50's the bike has almost certainly been repainted, as black was not used for the racing bikes back then. The rear derailleur that you show would appear to be from the 1953-57 time period. Out of curiosity can you take a clear detailed picture of the rear dropouts and what is written on them? I have some 50's Bianchi catalogs somewhere.

Thats why I got excited over the 50's Bianchis with the chrome lugs and integrated headsets. It's pretty stuff!! and the closest thing to the yellow Torpado I couldn't afford on ebay last week. Nice sale btw RJ. That one will always haunt me.


The Bianchi is a much better bike than that Torpado, BTW. It sold very strong - for way more than its true value, IMO. It was not a high-end bike - no need to feel "haunted."

The Bianchi is a much better bike than that Torpado, BTW. It sold very strong - for way more than its true value, IMO. It was not a high-end bike - no need to feel "haunted."

+1000. That Torpado was a nothing that at least two people thought was a SOMETHING. That's why it's worth taking your Bianchi restoration slow and easy, it takes a while to learn what is true quality and what is just shiney and eye catching.

You're a Pontiac guy, the Specialissima is a '62 SD Catalina. That Torpado was '62 4 cyl Tempest at best.

I'm one of those greedy butts that wants something if "I" think it is special. I get it from my Dad, he sees good in almost anything...and yep...he's got lots of junk.

To each their own right?

I am happy with lots of things I have even though they are not best of the best.

One time I needed a fender for a fully loaded Firebird I was restoring. I found a fender but the old man who owned the junk yard wouldn't sell it unless I bought the whole car. I got the car for $300.00 including a brand new set of Cragers. Squirrel!! on the Cragers.

The 69' Firebird 400 had a 428 in it, turbo 400 with a shift kit, Daytona slicks...and actually nothing in it option wise but tilt steering. I guess the fact that they made very cars few Firebirds with tilt steering made it special to me. (the 428 didn't hurt..but it was an added engine)

So I would buy a Yenko Nova...or even a crummy regular 396 Nova...knowing the Yenko or Baldwin Motion Stage III (Phase III??) Camaro is what is the better machine collectability wise.

Usually it comes down to money...or opportunity of something coming up for sale.
TIMING IS EVERYTHING!! Getting my money to be there when opportunity arises...well...I'm 50/50 on that.

I am they type too that will end up with 15 bikes kinda special...and maybe 3 really special. But I will like the other 15 too...for what they are. I am learning to look for the better parts on the bikes I want.

Sometimes it happens.

Citoyen - Thanks, I will just take it apart sometime soon to put my question of age out of its misery.

hit a button...didnt mean to send last post unfinished.
The rear dropouts have Brev Campagnolo stamp on both of them on the outside. They stamped letting is quite clear and surprisingly not scrated from where the wheel hub hooks on.
The elbow of the dropouts have a hole drilled in them on the outside. Looks like they could have something screwed in them. I'll get you pics.

Thanks for all of the info.

The hole in the elbow is for a screw that helps position the wheel when you replace it. See here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/j0ew00ds/3840587585/in/set-72157622097228612/

Bike of my dreams, you lucky bum :-)

I am sooooooooo jealous very beautiful bike!! you should look for the Bianchi USA group on flicker.

Thanks Bgirll...nice bikes yourself. I will look for the B group on Flickr. I am looking for a few places to belong...new to the forum here myself...haven't been biking long...but I'm addicted now.

I want one of everything!! Actually...just looking for a good Miyate nine 16 or similar and then I've got to get started on my B.

Seeya!

Very nice. Please don't paint it, leave it original.