Track Cycling: Velodrome Racing and Training Area - Track racing is easy.

It's easy. Discuss.

Racing is easy. Racing well is not.

Racing is supposed to be easy. All you have to do is train hard enough.

Road is easier.

Road is easier.


That goes without saying! :)

Road is easier.

Not true.

Not true.

what you cant ride from point a to point b?

70 mile RR > 25 lap points race. Fact.

Then why are 99% of roadies that live near a track AFRAID to try it?!?!?!?!?!?!?!:cry:

Let me guess, you were able to get on a track and made a few laps and passed some people that were not putting in much effort? That isn't exactly racing.

70 mile RR > 25 lap points race. Fact.


70 mile road race -- 70 miles of milling about with boring roadies dicking with gears, brakes, piss breaks, clif bars and complaining that the you wanted cytomax, not gatorade in your bottle.

Points race -- non-stop action, and putting fear into the roadies watching from the stands and holding hads with each other.

Let me guess, you were able to get on a track and made a few laps and passed some people that were not putting in much effort? That isn't exactly racing.

Close. I was batting .500 for wins in my first two nights at the track. I got upgraded to the 3's and won there too.


70 mile road race -- 70 miles of milling about with boring roadies dicking with gears, brakes, piss breaks, clif bars and complaining that the you wanted cytomax, not gatorade in your bottle.

Not true. Try rolling break in a race like that. Milling about and being pack fill isn't racing.


Points race -- non-stop action, and putting fear into the roadies watching from the stands and holding hads with each other.

True, aside from striking fear in to roadie's hearts.

You were lucky then.2's and 1's will likely be tougher.

You were lucky then.2's and 1's will likely be tougher.

I was drunk when I started this thread but decided to see how it went. And I actually don't think it was easy, but my roadie strength and experience helped get me through the 4/5's. 3's are much more my level.

[QUOTE=Frunkin;9581075]I was drunk when I started this thread/QUOTE]


This tells me that it is best to just ignore you.

I was drunk when I started this thread but decided to see how it went. And I actually don't think it was easy

=:troll:

I was drunk when I started this thread but decided to see how it went. And I actually don't think it was easy, but my roadie strength and experience helped get me through the 4/5's. 3's are much more my level.

Well, what cat are you on the road?


70 mile RR > 25 lap points race. Fact.

I'd take the points race actually. But I prefer my racing an hour or less.


Not true.

Well, in my experience it's a lot easier to sit in the group in road racing/crits and be pushing air a lot less. At the track you're never far from the front and here, without fail, the racing goes to "race pace" pretty much from the gun after neutral lap. I haven't done any real road races since the spring though, just crits/hill circuits/car track circuits.

I think track racing is way easier than road racing. I'm not the fastest dude but I can win track races pretty easily with some strategy, while I never do anything but finish like 35th in road races, since no matter how hard I work, there's anyway some hammerhead who will crush me in the last half mile.

I think track racing is way easier than road racing. I'm not the fastest dude but I can win track races pretty easily with some strategy, while I never do anything but finish like 35th in road races, since no matter how hard I work, there's anyway some hammerhead who will crush me in the last half mile.

This.

And I'm a 3 on the road. But I've never gotten a win on the road.

I think track racing is way easier than road racing. I'm not the fastest dude but I can win track races pretty easily with some strategy, while I never do anything but finish like 35th in road races, since no matter how hard I work, there's anyway some hammerhead who will crush me in the last half mile.


How many match sprints have you won? What were your flying 200m and race 200m times? What's your time in the Kilo, or the individual pursuit? Team pursuit?

See that's the thing about track -- it's pretty easy to separate who is fast and who is not objectively.

See that's the thing about track -- it's pretty easy to separate who is fast and who is not objectively.

same with road TTs.

Mass start and TT are entirely different types of races. I know strong TTers who can't mass start, and strong mass starters who can't TT, and sprinters who can't race more than 3 laps (mabe 8 if they have a motorbike to pace them...)

This.

And I'm a 3 on the road. But I've never gotten a win on the road.

Well sounds like you should have been crushing 4's and 5's anyway then.

same with road TTs.

Mass start and TT are entirely different types of races. I know strong TTers who can't mass start, and strong mass starters who can't TT, and sprinters who can't race more than 3 laps (mabe 8 if they have a motorbike to pace them...)

Yes that's true. But the Sprint, Kilo and pursuit are standardized distances. They tell a lot about speed. To win match spints at a high level tells a lot about bike skills and speed. Keiring tells a lot about all of it.

They're all different skill sets. As a sprinter I took great joy in winning sprints, but winnng madisons and keirins made me really proud because they were stretching my abilities.

They're all different skill sets. As a sprinter I took great joy in winning sprints, but winnng madisons and keirins made me really proud because they were stretching my abilities.

I'm mostly a points/scratch/madison racer. Beating a bunch of sprinters who have a second or more on me over 200 meters in a 6 lap race always entertains me. Speed isn't everything.

...sprinters who can't race more than 3 laps (mabe 8 if they have a motorbike to pace them...)

Me. Minus a lap.

+1 on being proud of winning one Keirin so far (heat + final, for the B racers), because in the prior Keirin I couldn't even stay with the group behind the moto. Oddly enough I got annihilated in the Match Sprint against the same guys, and I thought I'd be better in that event.

Learning, learning, it's all learning for me.

cdr

Me. Minus a lap.

+1 on being proud of winning one Keirin so far (heat + final, for the B racers), because in the prior Keirin I couldn't even stay with the group behind the moto. Oddly enough I got annihilated in the Match Sprint against the same guys, and I thought I'd be better in that event.

Learning, learning, it's all learning for me.

cdr

Match sprinting and a Keiren are totally different animals. I can beat guys in a sprint who are faster than me but they will eat me up in a Keirin. Just remember that whenever you do a match sprint you've got to have a plan before hand and take control of the other rider both physically and mentally. Don't let your opponent dictate the race to you.

There's a lot more complexity and variety in track than road, but the beauty is that just about everybody can be good at something. I just love to try it all.

I was drunk when I started this thread but decided to see how it went. And I actually don't think it was easy, but my roadie strength and experience helped get me through the 4/5's. 3's are much more my level.

You are aware that:
- Cat 5 means that your opponents merely paid for a license and are expected to have no experience.
- Cat 4 means that they have simply passed a track etiquette beginners class.
- Cat 3 riders are those that are required to have actually scored any points in races.

So, beating up on Cat 4/5 rookies isn't much of a big deal.


From the website:

Track Upgrades
All track upgrades are processed by the Velodrome Managers using the following criteria (ATRA guidelines):

Upgrade from Cat. 5 to Cat. 4 = Complete a Velodrome Class or 4 race days.
Upgrade from Cat. 4 to Cat. 3 = 5 race days and 20 points
Upgrade from Cat. 3 to Cat. 2 = 5 race days and 25 points
Upgrade from Cat. 2 to Cat. 1 = 5 race days and 30 points

http://www.usacycling.org/news/user/story.php?id=2626

You are aware that:
- Cat 5 means that your opponents merely paid for a license and are expected to have no experience.
- Cat 4 means that they have simply passed a track etiquette beginners class.
- Cat 3 riders are those that are required to have actually scored any points in races.

So, beating up on Cat 4/5 rookies isn't much of a big deal.


From the website:

Track Upgrades
All track upgrades are processed by the Velodrome Managers using the following criteria (ATRA guidelines):

Upgrade from Cat. 5 to Cat. 4 = Complete a Velodrome Class or 4 race days.
Upgrade from Cat. 4 to Cat. 3 = 5 race days and 20 points
Upgrade from Cat. 3 to Cat. 2 = 5 race days and 25 points
Upgrade from Cat. 2 to Cat. 1 = 5 race days and 30 points

http://www.usacycling.org/news/user/story.php?id=2626

I
=:troll:

Not serious, but I felt like I needed to respond to the accusations that I was afraid of the track, or was all excited about passing somebody in a training session.

I like that people with different abilities can be successful at the track. It makes it fun.

of course track racing is easier. You are never far from where you started the ride. You get to drive to the track in your car. It's easier because you don't have to listen to folks crap on about how bad they are going or how good they are or what gadget they just bought. You don't even have to worry about sticking water or tools/spares on your bike.

Best of all you only have to learn to turn in one direction.

so simple hey.

The easiest thing about track racing is you get to start clipped in, hanging on to a wall or a person.
Nothing worse than fumbling around trying to clip in while in the middle of a pack at a crit, trying to get to the first turn.

I've been doing track racing now for the better part of a year here in the Tokyo area. I'm now a master, and in the 90's I did USCF road racing in the States as a kid.

Is track racing easier? Well, I can say that in this single year of racing the track I've had more good results (and finally an outright win) than I did in my entire 5 year road "career". Why is that? Damned if I know, maybe I'm just more suited to this? Maybe small pond? My times are fairly competitive with times in the US and EU, so I'm not sure if that's it. Dunno, don't care: it's a blast!

Here's what I like about the track:

Smaller fields. I've no problem getting it on in a keirin, but there's nothing quite as terrifying as a curb-to-curb field sprint in a Cat 4 crit. Even in a track points or scratch, you're unlikely to encounter a field of more than 30 riders. I like that.

Training can be streamlined. As I'm training for the sprint events, I find I only have to train about 200 km (max) per week, when I was riding twice that as a roadie. This is a lot easier for an adult with a job.

It's more fun! It's intense, and short. You bust your balls, you see stars, you get tunnel vision- but then it's over. And you do another one. Road racing, it's too damn long! Even a 40 mile crit-- why not just a 10k scratch??

I can see how a fit roadie might come into the track scene, do well in a scratch and say, "what's the big deal?" and I've heard that it sometimes happens. The enduro fields are often padded with sprinters looking for an extra event, so might seem kinda soft to a Cat 3 roadie used to 100 hungry roadracers.

So if it's easy, ok. It will bore you, go back to the road. But if you find it fun, stick around and see what you can learn. Through upgrades you'll find your level quickly and be challenged. It's only easy until you meet the other faster guy.

I've been doing track racing now for the better part of a year here in the Tokyo area. I'm now a master, and in the 90's I did USCF road racing in the States as a kid.

Is track racing easier? Well, I can say that in this single year of racing the track I've had more good results (and finally an outright win) than I did in my entire 5 year road "career". Why is that? Damned if I know, maybe I'm just more suited to this? Maybe small pond? My times are fairly competitive with times in the US and EU, so I'm not sure if that's it. Dunno, don't care: it's a blast!

Here's what I like about the track:

Smaller fields. I've no problem getting it on in a keirin, but there's nothing quite as terrifying as a curb-to-curb field sprint in a Cat 4 crit. Even in a track points or scratch, you're unlikely to encounter a field of more than 30 riders. I like that.

Training can be streamlined. As I'm training for the sprint events, I find I only have to train about 200 km (max) per week, when I was riding twice that as a roadie. This is a lot easier for an adult with a job.

It's more fun! It's intense, and short. You bust your balls, you see stars, you get tunnel vision- but then it's over. And you do another one. Road racing, it's too damn long! Even a 40 mile crit-- why not just a 10k scratch??

I can see how a fit roadie might come into the track scene, do well in a scratch and say, "what's the big deal?" and I've heard that it sometimes happens. The enduro fields are often padded with sprinters looking for an extra event, so might seem kinda soft to a Cat 3 roadie used to 100 hungry roadracers.

So if it's easy, ok. It will bore you, go back to the road. But if you find it fun, stick around and see what you can learn. Through upgrades you'll find your level quickly and be challenged. It's only easy until you meet the other faster guy.

Well said!!!

What tracks are you racing on in Japan?

Hi MG,

My regular training tracks are Keiokaku (Tokyo Oval), Shonan Bank and Kawasaki. I've also raced at Seibuen, Toride and the Cycle Sport Center 400 meter track in Shuzenji. Other than Shuzenji, these are all pro keirin stadiums so are only open to amateur training or competition occasionally, but there are so many that I can usually find something in terms of training every weekend and usually a race a month. And, other than Shuzenji again, they are all accessible by local train!

I've said this before on here, but if any listers are ever traveling in Japan they should PM me-- I can probably help to get you on a track while you're here.

-Dave